which bandsaw would you keep? Old PM or newer Jet?

[Drew Morton]

While looking for an 8 inch jointer on CL, I was fortunate enough to find both a PM model 60, which satisfied my jointer wants, and a PM model 141. Both were neglected and in need of much elbow grease, which fortunately I had in spades. I actually found that stripping the machines down to their bones and rebuilding was very enjoyable. Anyway, I already have a nice Jet 14 inch bandsaw, but I am thinking that the 141 is one of the better small bandsaws around. With new bearings all around, new tires, and cleaned up, it is basically a new saw. So, if you had a choice, which on would you keep? A Jet 14 made in the mid 2000's, which runs really nicely, or a 1978 model 141 with fresh innards? I am inclined to keep the PM, simply because I prefer older machines. Just curious what everyone else might think?
Thanks
Drew

[Marshall Harrison]

I'm curious as to how this will play out.

I don't have an answer. I don't have a bandsaw but I would be happy have either of those choices. PM would probably get my vote on reputation alone.

[Bruce Page]

I would keep the PM if resaw height is not in the mix – you can get more if you add a riser block to the Jet, no so, for the PM 141.

[Drew Morton]

No favorites on my part, I am just curious of other people's opinions. The Jet I have does every thing I want, and I dont resaw anything wide. I just happened to fall into this 141 as an add on to the jointer I bought.

[Van Huskey]

Open the top door on both saws. Spend 15 seconds looking at the tensioning area of the respective saws giving extra care to compare the springs on each, this exercise should make the decision extremely easy unless you need more than 6" of resaw height which in that case the decision should have already been made in favor of the Jet with a riser block.

[Bruce Page]

Who's that guy?

[Nick Decker]

Some guy that just returned from a bandsaw rehab program?

[Matt Day]

I’m partial to old arn, so the 141 gets my vote. If you really want to resaw you’ll want a bigger saw than a 14” with riser block anyway.

More importantly, Van is back??

[Bill Space]

Some guy that just returned from a bandsaw rehab program?

And wearing a disguise no less! :cool:

[ray grundhoefer]

silly question , you always keep the old iron.

[Frederick Skelly]

Open the top door on both saws. Spend 15 seconds looking at the tensioning area of the respective saws giving extra care to compare the springs on each, this exercise should make the decision extremely easy unless you need more than 6" of resaw height which in that case the decision should have already been made in favor of the Jet with a riser block.

Welcome back Van!
Fred

P.S., OP: keep the old iron.

[Mike King]

Simple. Keep both. Set one up with a ¼ or ⅜ inch blade, the other with ¾. Now you have a resaw and a curve machine.

[Charlie Hinton]

If I could squeeze a second bandsaw into the shop I would keep both loaded with different blades.
If that is not possible as a permanent option then I would use both saws for a project and find out if I had a preference for either one.
Per looking at google images the design of the blade tension mechanism is significantly different than what is on my Jet bandsaw circa 2006.
I don't know which is better.
Chances are the design or the materials in the trunnions is different too.
I don't tend to get emotionally attached to my machines, but if I were to refurbish something like that I might change my mind.
If you don't have much of a user preference then I would advertise both of them for sale and let the one go that puts the most money in your pocket.

[John Stankus]

I’m not in the “newer is better” nor am I in the “older is better” camps. List out all the types of cuts you may want a bandsaw to do, and then try them on both saws. Gather data, then decide.

John

[Drew Morton]

good points, all. Thanks for the opinions. Ill probably keep the 141, if for nothing other than I prefer the older tools (1978 isn't really all that old compared to some), and also because everything is fresh on the inside and having taken the saw completely apart, I'm a little attached. Plus, it goes well with the 1979 Unisaw and 1982 PM Model 60 that I refurbed. Now I guess I start hunting for an older planer that needs some love to replace the old Ridgid lunchbox planer.
Drew

[Charlie Hinton]

Do you have pictures of the refurbished saw ?

[lowell holmes]

I have the riser block on my Jet and I would not do without it. The saw is crippled without it.

I like the saw and will not replace it.

[Drew Morton]

I didnt repaint anything but the bottom plinth area due to some rust. I took both machines completely apart and cleaned everything and replaced all bearings. Also replaced the original switches with a magnetic switch. Should last the rest of my lifetime, I suppose.
386556

[lowell holmes]

My Jet Bandsaw is white. It is about 15 years old.

[Charlie Hinton]

Those look real nice.
athanks for sharing.

[Rick Potter]

Put me in the 'keepem both' camp.

Of course I have four now, so I am prejudiced.

[lee cox]

What about selling both and buying an 18 inch bandsaw? I had a Rikon 14 and a Rikon 10 bandsaw which I liked. I then sold both and bought a Minmax 18 inch used bandsaw for the same money. I really like the Minmax better than the other 2 Rikon bandsaws plus it takes up less space than having 2 bandsaws. I do change blades more but I have gotten pretty good at it.

[Mike Heidrick]

Both till you get a mm20. Then sell the jet.

[Mike Kees]

I am with Mike,best idea in this thread yet.

[Drew Morton]

Both till you get a mm20. Then sell the jet.

While this is an excellent idea, I don't think that falls within my budget...

So now I am thinking of getting a riser block for the jet and just keeping them both. Bandsaws dont take up a lot of room. Will the Jet with a riser handle a 3/4 inch resaw blade?

[Van Huskey]

While this is an excellent idea, I don't think that falls within my budget...

So now I am thinking of getting a riser block for the jet and just keeping them both. Bandsaws dont take up a lot of room. Will the Jet with a riser handle a 3/4 inch resaw blade?

The Jet or any cast iron clone of the Delta saw is really beyond its capability trying to properly tension a 3/4" blade. The best option for those saws is one of the thin backer spring steel blades with impulse hardened teeth like the Woodslicer from Highland or the Kerfmaster from Spectrum Supply. They both offer 1/2" blade in .022" thickness and Spectrum has a 7/8" .016" version either of which is, IMO, the best option for this type of saw. cast clone saws can do a fine job resawing as long as you have the patience to work within the power of the saw and beam strength of the blade. The blades I mentioned will produce a pretty good finish off the saw as well.

[Drew Morton]

The Jet or any cast iron clone of the Delta saw is really beyond its capability trying to properly tension a 3/4" blade. The best option for those saws is one of the thin backer spring steel blades with impulse hardened teeth like the Woodslicer from Highland or the Kerfmaster from Spectrum Supply. They both offer 1/2" blade in .022" thickness and Spectrum has a 7/8" .016" version either of which is, IMO, the best option for this type of saw. cast clone saws can do a fine job resawing as long as you have the patience to work within the power of the saw and beam strength of the blade. The blades I mentioned will produce a pretty good finish off the saw as well.

Good info, thanks!

[Charlie Hinton]

Two years ago the tires failed on the bandsaw and I had to spend some money on it.
I decided to try to make it be as good as it could be and installed urethane tires, a Kreg fence, and the least expensive roller bearing guides I could find.
I ordered a Woodslicer for it too.
With the saw being refreshed and me being impatient to use it, I bought a 1/2" Timberwolf from the local Woodcraft before the Woodslicer arrived and I was quite impressed with that blade, so much so that when the Woodslicer arrived it was put in the cabinet and has been there until yesterday.
So, yesterday I was cleaning the bandsaw and checking alignments and since I already had the blade off I decided to put the Woodslicer on it.

HOLY GUACAMOLE BATMAN !!!

Color me an instant fanboy of the Woodslicer.
I am serious, this blade resaws so much better than the Timberwolf it's just ridiculous (keep in mind I have been very pleased with the Timberwolf).

Lately there have been a couple of times 6" has not been enough height and I have been kicking around the idea of getting a new bandsaw or adding a riser to the Jet.
The riser kit for $90 is certainly the less costly option but based off the way my saw kinda struggled sometimes when cutting 6" stock I just couldn't convince myself the riser was a good idea.
The Woodslicer blade has changed my mind about that.
My saw is the entry level 14" so it only has 1/2 or maybe 3/4 hp so I don't expect it to ever be able to cut 12" stock, but now I am confident it could resaw 8".
Of course being squeaky cheap I have to get my money's worth out of the Woodslicer before making the jump to the 105" blades.

[Nick Decker]

While I've seen both good and bad reviews of Timberwolf blades, the only beef I've seen about the Woodslicer/Kerfmaster blades is that they don't stay sharp as long.

My own experience with the Kerfmaster has been very good. As for longevity, it depends on what you're cutting. I used my first one for about a year, cutting mostly domestic hardwoods like walnut, oak and maple. Only after resawing some bubinga did it finally give up the ghost and start wandering.

[Charlie Hinton]

I have heard the same thing about the Woodslicer not staying sharp.
If that proves to be the case I don't know where else to turn to for a good blade for the mass market 14" bandsaws.

[Rick Potter]

I have an Olsen blade that is 5/8" X 3TPI on a Delta 14" saw with a riser. It has done well for resawing. Got it at Rockler.

About that budget, Drew.....Hang in there and be patient. I had decided I would never find a heavier duty BS and was happy with the above Delta, when out of nowhere came a deal I wasn't even looking for. A single phase, low mileage, one owner, home shop, Agazzani 24", with three blades, including one unused Lennox carbide tipped. Budget?? Paid $600 or $650 (can't remember exactly).

And yes, I kept the Delta.

[Nick Decker]

I have heard the same thing about the Woodslicer not staying sharp.
If that proves to be the case I don't know where else to turn to for a good blade for the mass market 14" bandsaws.

Charlie, I guess my point was, use the Woodslicer for a while and see how it's holding up in your situation. It could be that those reports of it not staying sharp were from people who cut a lot more wood than you. I don't know of any side-by-side, scientific comparisons.

You do know that the Woodslicer is the same as the Kerfmaster from Spectrum Supply, right?

[Drew Morton]

I have an Olsen blade that is 5/8" X 3TPI on a Delta 14" saw with a riser. It has done well for resawing. Got it at Rockler.

About that budget, Drew.....Hang in there and be patient. I had decided I would never find a heavier duty BS and was happy with the above Delta, when out of nowhere came a deal I wasn't even looking for. A single phase, low mileage, one owner, home shop, Agazzani 24", with three blades, including one unused Lennox carbide tipped. Budget?? Paid $600 or $650 (can't remember exactly).

And yes, I kept the Delta.

Thats a gloat if ever there was one...

[Rick Potter]

It was a gloat last year, today it is meant as encouragement;)

[Charlie Hinton]

Charlie, I guess my point was, use the Woodslicer for a while and see how it's holding up in your situation. It could be that those reports of it not staying sharp were from people who cut a lot more wood than you. I don't know of any side-by-side, scientific comparisons.
You do know that the Woodslicer is the same as the Kerfmaster from Spectrum Supply, right?

I will use the Woodslicer until it wears out.
If it gives me good service I will add the riser to my saw and go to the 105" length.
I didn't know about Kerfmaster, thanks for that.

[Charlie Hinton]

It was a gloat last year, today it is meant as encouragement;)

So why does it make me feel depressed?? ;))

[Nick Decker]

Charlie, the Kerfmaster is the same blade stock, custom welded to order by Spectrum Supply and quite a bit cheaper. Spectrum is not really up to speed on the shipping charges they show on their website. Also, they have a $25 order minimum.

I just took delivery of two 111" Kerfmasters (1/2"). When I went to place the online order, it showed the shipping as $35, not reasonable. I called the company and they're aware of the problem. Their guy told me to go ahead and place the order, actual shipping would be a lot less. I said no thanks, I need to know exactly what the shipping would be. What we worked out was that I would write in the Comments Box that they should not ship or charge me without first letting me know the exact total. I did that, got an email the next day from their welding department that shipping would be $13 Priority Mail (reasonable, I think), and I had the blades 3 days later.

A few extra hoops to jump through, but worth it to me. They tell me they're working on the website problem.

[Van Huskey]

I have heard the same thing about the Woodslicer not staying sharp.
If that proves to be the case I don't know where else to turn to for a good blade for the mass market 14" bandsaws.

The Woodslicer/Kerfmaster and Blade Runner (sold by Iturra) and most likely the same blade stock (they look and perform identically) and likely made by Atlanta Sharptech. They are technically a meat cutting blade.

These blades are soft relative to even standard carbon steel blades, despite the fact they have hardened teeth and will dull faster than carbon blades BUT they are sharper initially as you can sharpen softer metals to a keener edge, like most things in life there are tradeoffs. They have several benefits, one they have no set and produce a very thin kerf (good for saving wood and needing less power). By having a small cross section they also require less absolute pressure to properly tension them. The lack of set and being very sharp initially leave a very nice finish off the saw, only beaten by the best carbide resaw blades.

The fact they have small cross sections and take a thin kerf make them perfect for resawing on 14" Delta clones since they don't need a lot of spring pressure and require less power than the aggressive blades with a lot of set. The fact they dull faster than carbon blades is a good tradeoff to be able to resaw much taller wood than the saw was originally designed to cut.

These are simply the best blades for tall resawing on small saws and have their benefits for resawing even on much more capable saws, for example when you want to save as much wood as possible from a "special" piece of wood you are cutting veneer from.

Tooling is as if not more important than the machine...