Box Pricing Questions

[Vaughn McMillan]

Some of you have seen my latest little trinket box (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26416), but now that folks have seen it and other boxes I've made, it inevitably leads to "what's the price?" questions. At that point, I'm stymied, since I have no idea what something like one of my boxes could, should or would sell for.

I know there are a few Creekers here who make and sell some very nice boxes and similar "mini furniture" projects. I also know there are a lot of variables involved (the item itself, the maker and his or her reputation, and of course the buyer). Still, I have no idea even where the starting point would be. Looking online at places like eBay are of no help so far...all I see are imported pieces of junk that are priced at a few bucks.

What prompted this post is my neighbor saw the cherry wave box a couple nights ago and simply must have it for a Christmas gift to a friend. (He wants me to add a top, which isn't a big issue.) This particular neighbor deals with art and artists in his day job (he installs high-end artwork in the homes and businesses of the rich and famous), so he's less likely to balk at an "artist" prices as opposed to a "craft show" price. (No insult intended to those who make items and sell at craft shows, but I think you'll agree the different markets have different pricing structures.) He essentially told me to name a price, and "as long as it's not thousands of dollars" he'll buy it. I have no intent of ripping him off, but then again I'd like to make some money in the process by asking a fair price. As an aside, this same neighbor has been promising to give me a barely used P-C router with a "D" handle (model # unknown, but I suspect it's the 690 series that will go well with the rest of my 690 stuff). He's said he'll bring it over as soon as he digs it out of a storage room downtown. (He doesn't use it, and would like me to have it so it's making dust, not collecting it.) I'm tempted to tell him the box is a trade for the router, with the agreement that he'll send some high-end customers my way who might be interested in some of my work.

Any advice or suggestions? Thanks -

- Vaughn

[Richard Wolf]

Vaughn, I was waiting for someone else to answer because it is always a difficult question.
One thing I always tell people about pricing is, don't be shy. Woodworkers are always getting screwed and no matter how low you make it, someone will think it is still to high. So my advice to you is, think of a fair price, double it and add 10 percent. That should get you in the right ballpark.

Richard

[Randy Moore]

My price for this one time only wouuld be " a cold drink, your choice, and the router along with some customers and we got a deal":) That we would be a fair deal to me. THIS time ONLY!!!!!!! Figure up what the wood is worth , or how many B.F. and double that along with all the sandpaper, finishing supplies you used and that would be my price. If that doesn't seem to be enough then add something for you! You can't continue to do this woodworking, hobby or otherwise, for free.

[Dan Oliphant]

Vaughn, if your going to charge for your work, you need to decide if your in business or just trying to make a few bucks. If you're in business, the pricing factors are a lot more involved, if you're just trying to make a few bucks, charge whatever you feel good with.

[John Miliunas]

Vaughn, first and foremost, don't sell yourself short!!! No, I'm not saying you should charge Sam Maloof prices (yet :D ) but, church bazaar pricing won't get you anywhere, either. One thing I've noticed over the years is that people are a strange animal. If you offer a truly one-off piece, of high quality for real cheap, they will often walk away thinking there's something wrong with it or it's just not worthy enough for them to purchase, especially as a gift. In your case, from what I could tell of the box from the pics, it truly is a worthy piece and worth nothing less than the proposed trade with that "D" handle router AND referrals. :) This neighbor of yours appears to be in a position to help you toward future customers, so doing that deal for him as a "favor" I believe to be acceptable. :) That's just MHO but, whatever you do, don't sell yourself short! You do beautiful work and you need to place an appropriate value on it or it becomes worth a lot less.:) :cool:

[Corey Hallagan]

Hey Vaughn, thanks for the link. I missed your post as this was in the 4 day period we were offline while the living room floor was being finished. Vaughn, I don't think I would fix that saw :) That is a very cool box! I don't know what to tell you on pricing but I agree with John, don't sell yourself short unless this person might be able to bring you other customers and a special pricing may be in order then as others have said. Nice work Vaughn, you are becoming quite the box builder!
Corey

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Vaughn:

So you've made a beautiful box and someone wants to buy it.

Another free opinion is worth what you paid for it. Seems to me the box is a unique, creative piece, and therefore priceless.

The router has a value. Less than a new one because it is used.

So is the box equal to a used router?

Tell me it isn't so. Price the box as a unique creative piece. The right buyer will pay the price.

Now if the router owner deserves a special price because of relationship that's different. But not for a used router. IMHO.

I've seen enought of your work to think you can charge premium prices for premium pieces. :D

Best regards, Tom

[Rusty Ballard]

Vaughn,

Awesome work, you've set a standard that I would love to achieve.

I recommend that you become savvy about the value of your work no matter if you sell it, trade it, barter with it, or give it away.

The gentleman that you are dealing with needs to know the value before he can even associate it to projective customers.

If you trade it for the router and networking, make sure that he knows its a $XXX box. Don't even let him know your costs. Be willing to show him the details and the specifics of the construction.

Don't sell yourself short. If he is in the business of fine goods, ask him what he thinks the value is.

It's truly a custom piece worth having.

Take Care,
RB

[Vaughn McMillan]

Thanks for the comments so far, gents. I can see I didn't really narrow the question down enough to quite get the info I was looking for. I agree with all the comments about not selling myself short, and although I'm a relative rookie, I do see some value to my pieces above and beyond the labor and materials involved.

The potential deal with the neighbor is secondary to the real question...what's the going rate for a nicely-built box along the lines of what I've been building? What do others charge? I'm assuming a one-of-a-kind piece would be worth more than a "production" box, but part of that would depend on the piece, of course. I also realize that the maker's reputation helps set the price, but even the best artists were unknown once, and had to start the pricing somewhere. ;)

I'll follow Rusty's advice to ask the neighbor what the box is worth is a good idea, since the neighbor not only has a feel for the kind of market I'm shootiong for, he recognizes the value of the design and artistic execution over and above the cost of materials. He's a straight-up kind of guy, an artist himself with pieces in galleries in LA and Santa Fe, and I think he'd give me an honest opinion if I explained my position. Nonetheless, I'm also interested in what other woodworkers charge for similar pieces.

Any more thoughts?

- Vaughn

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Okay...I'll answer the question. $100 for a generic, non-personalized box. $125 for one with a bit of 'fancy'...perhaps like wavy line inlays. Maybe $175 for a 'custom box' of standard size.

How's that?

I've seen some very nice (and I'm picky) boxes with fancy joinery at shows for less than $100. I don't think I'd make them for that. In fact, I gave somebody from another forum $100 + shipping for one a year or so ago.

KC

[Joseph N. Myers]

Okay...I'll answer the question. $100 for a generic, non-personalized box. $125 for one with a bit of 'fancy'...perhaps like wavy line inlays. Maybe $175 for a 'custom box' of standard size.

KC

I think KC is pretty much on the money.

A couple of things you haven't mentioned that would affect the price is how long it took you to make it, if the material to make it is readily available at a decent price and if it is prone for a production type project. (IIRC, the last 3 questions would be yes). And it seems that you like doing it so that is now an issue.

If it takes you 4 hours to make it and you sell it for $100, not too bad; if 10 hours, not so good! Now if you can make 4 of them in one twice the time, much better. Etc.

I personally would value the contacts that your friend would give you more than the price of the box (if indeed he could indeed get you the business). And if he does have pieces in high-end shops, maybe he could take your piece to those shops for their opinion. Granted it would be great if they were interested but they could probably give you a better idea of what it might be worth and more importantly, what improvements would make it more salable.

Now if he comes along and gives you the router as a thank you for the box, much better.

I don't remember you mentioning it but there are some really good books out there on making boxes. I have a couple and ofter look at them for ideas and enjoyment. But haven't made any yet ... one of these days.

And one more thing I would like to add and that would be to keep pictures and/or the project in your car and when the occasion arises, show it to people.

One of the things I have been making for a few years now are different flower planter and I have been selling a couple here, a couple there. Yesterday I took some pictures to a women that runs the flower shop in our local Sam's just to get her opinion on them. She order, for now, a reindeer planter, the guy in charge of the meat department ordered 6 box planters (he has a pool), another wants to check with her husband. Left there for a dentist appointment, told him/showed pictures and he ordered 4 (2 railing style, 2 box planters). To say it way a good day is an understatement.

Bottom line is being in the right place at the right time, but you never know where or when. Hence the reason for the pictures/projects.

Best of luck, Joe

[Perry Holbrook]

What are the box dimensions?

Perry

[Michael Stafford]

I am hesitant to throw my two cents in but to me the most important price is the price at which you are willing to sell and still be happy and the price at which your customer is willing to buy and still be happy. When I started selling boxes I sold them way too cheap. How do I know this? I sold them to a gallery and he promptly doubled the price and then proceeded to sell them all in one month and asked for more. I stopped and looked at my actual cost and time and decided that as Joseph suggested I was working for minimum wage. Since then I double my prices and if it is a special order/commission I increase it even more. Particularly if they wish me to line it in some special material or put in dividers that another customer might not like (and there have never been two customers that want a jewelry box divided in the same way). Of course I am not ever going to be making a living at what I do and I don't want to but I do want to pay for my hobby. For most of us that is an accomplishment in itself. I still sell some work at two galleries but not as cheaply as before. Of course I don't sell as much either. My favorite way is to sell is to have an open house which is coming up next weekend if you are in the area....:D I find it very comfortable to invite friends and prior customers to the house on a Saturday and have coffee and doughnuts or something my wife has baked while they look at my inventory. I sell things under these circumstances very reasonably and happily as these are people who went out of their way to come and buy something I made. I find that very rewarding in itself. I guess none of what I said helps you make a decision Vaughn but I have not found a formula that works for me.

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Vaughn:

You've porbably already done this, but...you might consider cruising some galleries in your area that show boxes and see what the prices in the local market are.

Makes for a nice Saturday. ;) TJH

[tod evans]

vaughn, i make my living doing custom stuff, it doesn`t matter to me what it is,an entrance door or a queen anne reproduction. i figure price by guessing the number of hours and adding 20% `cause something always throws a wrench in the coggs. add in material and a shop profit. this gives you a starting point, if you don`t like either the project or the customer then bump the price accordingly. if you loose the job so what,if you get it you`re compensated for the pita factor. but if the job is really cool or you think it could bring you other cool work then drop the price accordingly. for family and friends give gifts never even charge for materials, please head this last statement if you dissregard all the others it makes life much easier all the way around! tod

[Dave Ray]

Vaughn, your work (Art/Craft) deserves premium compensation. Only you can decide what that is. I have seen pictures of your work and would put a high $$ figure on it compared to many others I have seen. As others have stated, material plus number of man hours plus shop expenses plus profit will give you a basis in order to arrive at a basic price. Key word there is "basic" As I stated your work deserves PREMIUM $$. Your work has crossed the line into "ART". This has a value well above and beyond. Pay your neighbor for his router, charge for you work. As some one stated cruise high end galleries to get a feel for prices, also enter some pieces in local,state or national competitions. Send pictures to various woodworking magazines for publication, show the world your talent/skill. Feedback will give you more pricing indications. Most of all continue to enjoy your gift, your work inspires the rest of us. HAPPY THANKSGIVING