Question about dovetailed drawer rails

[Ron Citerone]

I see how Glen Huey dovetails drawer rails into the front of casework with floating stiles going toward the back for case side expansion. I wonder if it is worth the extra effort compared to making standard web frames and using a blind dado in the front. ( Other than aesthetic) I have used the blind dado method on 5 pieces 30 years ago and everything is still strong, no failures so far. I tried the dovetail method once in white oak and had tear out and other issues and ended up having to add a front frame to cover the mess. I'm about to start a chest on chest dresser and have to decide here soon.

Thanks, ron

[Wayne Lomman]

If your tried and tested method has worked, don't change to something else. Dovetails are nice, technically challenging in a fun way and strong. This does not mean that they must be used everywhere. Someone else doing it is no reason to follow suit no matter who they are. Cheers

[Brian Holcombe]

A dovetail is a better joint for the application.

[Robert Engel]

A dado is an end grain glue joint which does not offer as much strength.

In a large casework piece such as a dresser, it really does ensure the sides will hold and never separate.

I would also recommend blind dovetails to attach top and bottom.

With a set up block for trimming the tails and a little practice, they are not that difficult because even I can do it!

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[glenn bradley]

Good advice here. If the drawer dividers are part of your structural work, the dovetail resists deviations of the sides at the drawer opening area. Some of us find methods that we like and employ them consistently or for aesthetic reasons. Others vary construction based on the scale of the piece. I built a piece that was designed as a field of drawers, no visible dividers. In that build I used an internal dovetails panel at a mid-vertical point inside the carcass to serve the structural function. On other pieces I have used an internal panel with through tenons to serve this purpose and add a bit of interest to the sides. Part of the fun is getting the look you are after while using construction methods that assure the service life you expect for the piece.

[Ron Citerone]

A dado is an end grain glue joint which does not offer as much strength.

In a large casework piece such as a dresser, it really does ensure the sides will hold and never separate.

I would also recommend blind dovetails to attach top and bottom.

With a set up block for trimming the tails and a little practice, they are not that difficult because even I can do it!

.

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Hey Rob and others, any tips on routing the dovetails so there is no tear out? That is what happened when I did it in white oak, this dresser is going to be cherry. Thanks

[Brian Holcombe]

Ron, it depends on the size of the case but you can cut them out with a handsaw and chisel, or router and guide. For a small case, a router table assuming the stock is prepped flat.

I dont own a table saw, but I would image certain styles of cases would permit one to cut them out with a tablesaw and dovetail blade.

[Brian Holcombe]

In further detail: I realize these aren't case sides but one is the same as the other:

To form the dovetail, I marked it out with a knife, then chopped ahead of the baseline with a wide chisel. I then pared away the waste, holding the chisel at the same angle as the dovetail. Finally, I chopped the baseline.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fullsizeoutput_593.jpeg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fullsizeoutput_596.jpeg

I layout out my marks on the crossmember, then sawed the lines. After which I chopped cross grain chops to remove the majority of the waste rapidly. Followed by careful paring to the baseline. The test fitting then revealed where improvement was needed of the fit, and a final fit resulted in a tight joint.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fullsizeoutput_5ae.jpeg

Underside reveals how the joint is seated.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fullsizeoutput_5af.jpeg

[Robert LaPlaca]

Ron, I use sliding dovetails for all case work that I build. I dovetail the front and rear drawer rails (sometimes known as blades) and mortise and tendon the stiles into the front and rear rails, only the front end of the stiles are glued, the rear are left dry. Sometime there is a shallow dado cut between the two dovetail sockets that receives the right and left side stiles..

I cut the sliding dovetail sockets with a router, the key is to first excavate most of the waste with a undersized straight bit, the dovetail bits work will be much easier after the straight bit did it’s work. Also need to have a waste piece clamped to the front of the case sides, this will also minimize any tear out. The sliding dovetail pins, I cut on a router table using exactly the same bit bit as the socket, on the router table I can sneak up on the perfect fit. Typically these are only dovetails that i don’t cut by hand.

[Ron Citerone]

Thanks everyone for your help. I'm think I'm going to try it again. I will take the advice here to come up with a plan and try it on some scrap first.

[glenn bradley]

Hey Rob and others, any tips on routing the dovetails so there is no tear out? That is what happened when I did it in white oak, this dresser is going to be cherry. Thanks

At the start of the cut or at the exit the same safety method can be used. On some materials the bit is going to pull fibers on the exit side of the bit rotation. This can happen at your starting point or at the end point, it just happens on the opposite side of the bit rotation. Clamping a backer board (and a 'facer' board :rolleyes:?) to cut through at the start and finish of your cut will leave a clean result. Here's a couple different examples cut with backers.

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[Robert Engel]

Hey Rob and others, any tips on routing the dovetails so there is no tear out? That is what happened when I did it in white oak, this dresser is going to be cherry. Thanks

Hey Ron, yes that's an issue if using a router bit. What I do is leave everything a little big to allow for hand planing to remove the tear out.

In the case of that dresser you see, I actually did those by hand. The technique is to do the tails (?) in the dividers first, then insert divider in case, clamp, mark and remove the waste. The dovetail is only app 1" long the rest of the divider moves in a dado, and the back holds the rear sides together.

Big key on getting those DT right is a jig that Brian shows.

[Andrew Hughes]

I had no idea what Ron was asking until Brian offered up his work pics.
Brians work is always inspiring
If you have the time it's good practice to do them by the hand. Someday you might challenge yourself with something that is curved Routers and jigs will not help;)
You have to pay your dues to advance everyone does.

[Ellen Benkin]

I used the dovetail system on a chest of drawers mostly for the way they look. I found that it was hard to avoid creating gaps as I frequently did dry fitting to put the case together for measurements. And since most of my friends have no idea how difficult it was and don't appreciate the "look", I'm not sure I would do it again. But then, I'm pretty lazy.

[Mike Berti]

Agreed!
Keeping it simple is best, unless there are other reasons.