Tapered chisels & honing guide

[Bram de Jong]

Hi all,

Got the lovely honing guide from LN which is great for plane irons.
However, most of my (old / second-hand) chisels are tapered...
Are there any tricks for putting the tapered chisels into the honing guides?

Bram

[Andrew Pitonyak]

If your chisels are not square, it is difficult to sharpen them in a side clamping guide.

My opinion, if you want to sharpen something that is tapered, you should use a guide that clamps on the top and bottom, not on the side.

I sharpen with a Tormek, which clamps on the top and bottom, but, usually, I push it against the side to line it up. I cannot do this with my "tapered chisels".

Side clamping guides are (again in my opinion), the easiest and most reliable way to clamp a chisel or plane blade that does not taper and is square.

I think that you will also have problems with any skew blades without the specialty clamps based on your skew angle.

Hopefully others that actually own the same LN clamping guide will chime in.

[John C Cox]

Tapered which way? Thinner thickness from tang to edge or thinner width from tang to edge (like a fishtail?)

#1 is conventional and almost every chisel ever tapers in thickness from behind the bevel to the tang... Should not be a problem....

#2 - would be fairly easy to handle with a top/bottom clamping unit like the Veritas... You just mark the bevel with magic marker and use that to get everything all squared up properly.

[ken hatch]

Hi all,

Got the lovely honing guide from LN which is great for plane irons.
However, most of my (old / second-hand) chisels are tapered...
Are there any tricks for putting the tapered chisels into the honing guides?

Bram

Bram,

As far as I know there isn't a side clamping guide except maybe one of the "skate" types that will work with tapered irons. The top/bottom clamping guides like the Veritas tend to allow the blade to shift and go out of square. I know this doesn't answer your question but the best answer is to freehand your tapered chisels. If you don't freehand sharpen now after a month or two of doing it you will wonder why you ever went with the guides.

ken

[Todd Stock]

All of the chisels in my shop have taper - whether new or vintage - so not an old versus new thing. The closest to flat taper are the AI round backs, and even they show 0.030" or so taper. All work well in the LN guide...load and tighten. The guide references the back of the chisel for angle, so the angle is consistent when set with just distance, versus a top clamping jig that needs to be set with an angle jig. I have a few single-bevel carving chisels that show some reduction in width, but it's outside the area where the tool clamps.

As usual, some spring-butt will pop up with a suggestion to learn to hand-hone, so it might as well be me. Worth practicing, and I am glad to have mastered the skill, but 99% of the time modern abrasives and good jig design make it easier and faster to use the crutch.

[lowell holmes]

Maybe this would be satisfactory.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/veritas-mk-ii-honing-guide?gclid=CjwKCAjw_47YBRBxEiwAYuKdwyFhji-Qa8jYXSIiAkP0drmHbmd4i2vv9UAcKx0JQlvzLXoktpNfwhoCD VIQAvD_BwE

[Derek Cohen]

Hi all,

Got the lovely honing guide from LN which is great for plane irons.
However, most of my (old / second-hand) chisels are tapered...
Are there any tricks for putting the tapered chisels into the honing guides?

Bram

Hi Bram

There is a simple solution - just make a couple of angled shims for each side of the chisel blade (I assume that the blade tapers along the length \ / and not its thickness). These will then enable even clamping pressure to the sides of the chisel blades.

If the chisels have similar tapers, then one set of shims is all that is needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[les winter]

The LN mortise chisels have a taper. They require a different set of jaws. Perhaps that set would work with your chisels as well. I would order a pair and try them. If they do not work, you can return them.

[Todd Stock]

LN def tailored the guide to their own tools in terms of the jaw pairs, but all of my mortise chisels - Ray Iles, Sorbys, Marples - have noticeable taper. The reason that most mortise chisels won't fit the standard jaws is more the case that the near-square sides and the deeper profile will not fit the standard jaw set...the standard jaws will accommodate a maximum blade thickness of about 0.375" (less for square-sided blades and limited by the cross-bar to jaw 'registration ledge'), versus the 0.550" max of the mortising jaws (limited by the distance from base plate to jaw) .

The shots shows the jig with standard and/or mortise jaw(s) installed, and a 3/8" Ray Iles pigsticker at about 34 degrees when registered on the mortising chisel jaws and about 39 degrees when registered on the base of the jig.

386311

386312

386313

386314

386315

[Tom M King]

I don't remember ever having such a problem with an original Eclipse. I use some setup jigs that work with any guide, and key off the backs of the tool, so the cutting angle is always exact, regardless of the jig, or tool. Someone will always come along, and say to be a real man, and sharpen by hand, but I needed to come up with a system that almost anyone (my helpers) could walk up to, and get consistent results, without screwing things up.

[Chuck Nickerson]

One advantage of the LN jig is you can buy an extra set of jaws and customize them.
A few minutes of file work and you have custom jaws.

[ken hatch]

One advantage of the LN jig is you can buy an extra set of jaws and customize them.
A few minutes of file work and you have custom jaws.

Let’s see I would guess a set of jaws for each chisel because each has a different taper.. Could be interesting.

ken

[Todd Stock]

There's no issue with standard chisels - the only fit issue is with deeper section mortise chisels like 7/16" & 1/2" RI pigstickers, Refreshing memory re: the original Eclipse-style guide and deeper section mortise chisels...they sorta fit, for values of fit that involve some serious mojo on the knob (aka, ViseGrips). Registration is off the front or top of the blade versus the back, so needs an angle guide versus just a ruler or stop block to set. The LN jig is a big improvement, IMO, but quite expensive in the way that well-made things usually are.

386348

[Tom M King]

I keep the LV plane screwdriver on the sharpening sink. It gets used for irons, and caps, but also to tighten and loosen the Eclipse screw. You don't even have to torque on it very hard. My setting jigs, in the pictures earlier, work with any shape chisel, and any guide.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=60111&cat=1,41182

[Mike Brady]

Going over old round here, but the LN website says the following in the description of their honing guide: "We have designed these jaws for our blades and chisels, not other makers'." I know we are discussing trying to use other profiles of chisels in the LN guide and some do ok , others nada. If someone comes up with a solution I hope to see it here, but Ken is right; that could be an expensive experiment.

[lowell holmes]

You also can learn to hone your chisels free hand. :)

[Todd Stock]

Sort of like the old 5 angle Veritas guide...and handy for setting skews. Would be nice to have a 45 degree ref, but easy to eyeball, right? Most of the time, it's just slam the blade into the setting gauge and go...done. Def agree that jigs speed up getting students to sharp - it's always a battle for whatever time is available, and especially luthiery, given the additional topics that have to be covered beyond just the woodworking and finishing stuff.

386389

[ken hatch]

You also can learn to hone your chisels free hand. :)

Lowell,

I agree. I've round heels when it comes to sharpening....I'm willing to try just about anything with an open mind but it always comes back to the easiest and best way is to freehand. With any other way there is always a "yes but". I wish it wasn't so but with any guide I've tried there is always a exception, a iron that can't be used or a failure of the guide, it is always something. Over the years i've thrown a bit of money at guides and the results are always the same. The guide (inset name here) works well for "A" but not for "B". The LN guide is like all the others, works well for some irons, doesn't for others. I gave mine with most if not all the jaws to Ralph over at "The Accidental Woodworker" to put in his grand peanut's toolbox. I figured that was better use of it than it gathering dust in my "tool room".

ken

[steven c newman]

I will freehand (Free Bird?) to MAINTAIN an edge....when I first get a chisel or plane iron in the shop, I will use a guide to reform the edge...IF it needs it.

Since my MK1 guide burned up (ooops) my current guide is a blue Marples/Irwin....that I use the old MK1 angle plate to set the angles to.

[Bram de Jong]

Hey guys,

thanks for all the answers!

I guess me being a newbie and the chisels being my late grandfather's I didn't want to risk messing them up.

I'll just have to learn the hard way and use the guide for the plane irons which seem much trickier for a newbie as they are so much thinner....

I might still consider making some taper gigs for the guide, let's see...

Bram

[Todd Stock]

I am baffled here...why does this guide work for everything I throw at it in terms of chisels, but not for you? Other than needing the mortise jaws for the slick (which will likely never see a guide, as it's both easy and faster to free-hand) and the very deep section mortise chisels, I ran through every blade that was handy and not in deep storage (a sample of which is shown in the photo) and found the standard jaws take everything from 2" framing chisels to narrower, deep sectioned bench chisels without issue. I have to assume you have a subset of tools that you've actually tried to use the jig to hone and which do not fit - if you could take a few shots of the misfits, that would be helpful.

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[Bram de Jong]

Hey Todd,

I'm not talking about taper in the "thickness" direction of the blade.
I'm talking about taper in the length of the blade. I.e. the "sharp/pointy" side of the chisel being wider than the bit closer to the handle.
The chisel I tried had almost 2mm side-to-side movement in the guide on the "handle side" if I clamp it up.

Bram

[Bram de Jong]

So like this one, but obviously much less pronounced :D
386469

[Todd Stock]

Just a standard bench chisel like that? :eek:

[Warren Mickley]

Traditional bench chisels were tapered in both width and thickness. As an example, a chisel in the Seaton chest was 1.04 inches at the edge and tapered to .89 inches at the back. Over this same range the thickness went from .075 inches at the bevel to .285 inches at the back. In the 18th century this taper in width slowly became less over the years.

[Bram de Jong]

I'll measure the chisel in question tonight and post a picture of it in the guide...

Bram

[ken hatch]

I am baffled here...why does this guide work for everything I throw at it in terms of chisels, but not for you? Other than needing the mortise jaws for the slick (which will likely never see a guide, as it's both easy and faster to free-hand) and the very deep section mortise chisels, I ran through every blade that was handy and not in deep storage (a sample of which is shown in the photo) and found the standard jaws take everything from 2" framing chisels to narrower, deep sectioned bench chisels without issue. I have to assume you have a subset of tools that you've actually tried to use the jig to hone and which do not fit - if you could take a few shots of the misfits, that would be helpful.

386468

Todd,

I'm older than dirt so the eyes are not as sharp as they were but, and I could be wrong, I do not believe there is a pre-WW!! chisel in the bunch. Back in the day chisels were made by hand and as Warren posted they were tapered. I'd love to have Bram's problem:).

ken

[Bram de Jong]

The one from my granddad is most likely pre-ww2...It's a peugot freres...

Bram

[John C Cox]

I am kinda with Todd here... I don't see the problem in real life.

I think this is a case of overthinking the "trouble" with these guides... The basic designs for these guides (which have been around for almost 100 years now) already worked all this stuff out in their designs... For example - the "eclipse" style guide has 1 curved jaw and 1 straight jaw - so it will take chisels with a bit of unevenness in the sides... The Stanley/General/Veritas style top/bottom clamping guides have some "wobble" in the tightening mechanism to allow for typical taper....

[Todd Stock]

Likely true, given the two Marples are round neck with 50's logo...as I mentioned, pretty much what is out and available for students. What percentage of bench chisels in use do we think are to be found with blades which taper in width behind the cutting edge? Seems like the ability to fit just about any parallel-sided bench chisel would cover pretty much everyone likely to use a guide. ;)

[lowell holmes]

If you will place the chisel on the hone sideways in front of you, then left hand hold the chisel, place right forefinger on back of chisel,
stroke from left to right, coordinating hips and elbows. You can learn to freehand chisels. Take an old beater chisel, grind a hollow face
on it rocking your body left to right. You can learn to freehand sharping in about 30 minutes. You have to lock your body and make side ways
movement locking your elbows and arms, moving laterally feet flat on the ground. Do not allow any rocking of the chisel.
It does not matter that a chisel is tapered if you use this technique. All movement has to come from the legs and hips sideways.
You have to lock your whole body and all movement comes from your lower body.

Quit saying you can't do it and learn to free hand sharpen. If I can do it, anyone can. I as clumsy as a left handed beaver.:)

[Todd Stock]

So for those of us not engaged in historical reenactment of 18th c. cabinetmaking, the more common condition would seem to be parallel sides...or at least far enough back such that a side-clamping jig can be fitted. I think LN may have scoped out their market and determined that those craftspersons kitted out with those cool square buckles on their shoes and three-cornered hats would be unlikely to drop $125 on a honing guide, anyway...although I have to wonder if there are times that the Hay shop staff thinks 'screw this noise' and nips down to the well-equipped shop in their secret basement to use the 12" jointer after the tourists are safely stuffing their faces at Christina Campbell's.

[Todd Stock]

LOL..choir here...been there, done that, have the t-shirt, mug, beer cozy, and the magnetic sticker on the truck. With all the other stuff that I have to teach new builders beyond just the woodworking and finishing piece, it's just faster and easier to make the sharpening process a utility and leave it to the student to explore that space after they finish the course.

[ken hatch]

So for those of us not engaged in historical reenactment of 18th c. cabinetmaking, the more common condition would seem to be parallel sides...or at least far enough back such that a side-clamping jig can be fitted. I think LN may have scoped out their market and determined that those craftspersons kitted out with those cool square buckles on their shoes and three-cornered hats would be unlikely to drop $125 on a honing guide, anyway...although I have to wonder if there are times that the Hay shop staff thinks 'screw this noise' and nips down to the well-equipped shop in their secret basement to use the 12" jointer after the tourists are safely stuffing their faces at Christina Campbell's.

Todd,

The OP asked a question that deserved an answer. The correct answer is not all chisels can use a side clamping jig with out some major adjustments for each chisel. For those chisels sharpening with out using a jig is usually the best option. In addition top clamping jigs have holding problems that are well known. I just dug out my Eclipse jig and a dozen or so very good turn of the century chisels including a couple of Witherby, a Greenlee, Dunlap, Union Hardware, Pexio and several different firmer chisels. All the bevel edge chisels clamped with a slight slant and the firmer chisels all needed going Conan on the clamping screw just to kinda hold them in the jig. As I posted earlier it is good if the jigs work for your chisels but they do not work for all chisels.

ken

[Todd Stock]

The OP asked about the Lie-Nielsen jig, Ken - not the Eclipse - and I provided a data-driven answer. I agree that the Eclipse-style jig can be finicky, and can require quite a bit of torque to create the distortion that is required to lock in some blades, but that was not the question.

Absent some inherent ability for the jig to sense tool age or brand of chisel, the ability of the standard jaws to accommodate a tool is determined by the difference in height of the side grind, grind angle, and width of the blade.

Side Grind Height: The largest difference in height of the side grind I was able to test was 0.043 in/in, or about 2.5 degrees taper on the Marples 1" firmer, which required about 20 in-lb of torque to lock the blade in place (15-20 in-lb of torque is the usual range for 'finger tight' in aerospace applications) - this would be more comfortably done with a crutch-style screwdriver, although LN will sell you a purpose-built tool for what is a fairly absurd price. At some point, the side grind becomes so wide that the back of the chisel will not engage enough of the jaw's securing ledges to lock the tool in place - for the standard jaws, with 0.015" engagement, this occurs at side grind width of about 0.23"...forcing the user to mount the mortise jaws, which will accommodate up to 0.550" side grind height, and function independent of any side height differences due to the square faces beneath the ledge.

Bevel Grind Angle: The standard jaws are ground at 60 degees (relative to the plane of the back of the chisel). The steepest bevel grind I was able to easily find was about 35 degrees on the Pfeil. At very steep bevel grind angles (75 degrees or more) and large side grind heights (0.2"), I would expect the the user might have to use the mortise jaws to fit the tool.

Minimum and Maximum Blade Width: max blade width accommodated is about 2-7/8" with 0.050" ledge engagement per side. The minimum width of the tool accommodated with the standard jaw set is determined by a combination of bevel grind angle, blade thickness at the jig, and side height grind. Practically speaking, that means the standard jaw set will take down to about 6mm blade width for bevel-edged tools (with grind angles between 15 and 35 degrees and blade thicknesses to about 3/8") and 1/8" (with blade thickness to about 0.23") for non-bevel-edged blades.

The measurement of interest here are not the age of the tool, but rather blade taper in thickness, blade total thickness in the mounting area for the jig, side grind height/height difference across the width of the jaws, and side bevel grind angle. If the sides of the blade are reasonably parallel, the bevel grind angle does not exceed 60 degrees, the side grind taper does not exceed about 2.5 degrees, the tool thickness at the jig location is not over 0.23" for non-bevel-edged tools and not over 3/8" for bevel-edged blade, the LN standard jaw set works. Outside those limitations, the mortise jaws handle blade thicknesses of up to 0.550"...or about to the 3/8" width on pigstickers and closer to 1/2" on lighter duty tools.

Worth measuring your tools to see if any exceed the taper, side grind height, etc. limitations before dropping $175 on the jig and the extra jaws.

[Brian Holcombe]

There are so many chisels difficult to jig that it is well worth it to learn how to maintain a flat bevel freehand.

[ken hatch]

There are so many chisels difficult to jig that it is well worth it to learn how to maintain a flat bevel freehand.

Ain’t that the truth��.

ken

[Todd Stock]

I had an aunt that found great meaning in polishing her floor. Wonderful woman.

[Mike Holbrook]

One might consider learning to sharpen feehand as a basic skill for anyone learning to use hand tools. Certainly there is some skill involved. The question being whether or not that skill set is worth obtaining.

To me the skill set is akin to learning to saw a straight line. One learns to hold the saw with a loose grip so one can feel what the saw is doing vs holding it in a “death grip”. There are many tricks one can employe to make it easier to “freehand sharpen”, such as hollow grinding, edge sharpening......These tricks just give a new sharpener a larger/steadier surface while they learn.

It seems to me that there is a fair amount of “touch” involved in learning to use hand tools. One might argue that “freehand” sharpening is one more way to develop that “touch”.

[lowell holmes]

If you place the hone in front of you at waist level while standing, you stroke laterally. Hold the handle in left hand, place the beveled edge flat by placing
your right forefinger on the back side of the bevel.

Lock your elbows and stoke left to right by rocking your whole body left to right, you can hone the beveled edge. You put a micro bevel on by lifting

your left hand slightly and giving it 3 or 4 stokes. That's how I do it and as uncoordinated as I am, anyone can do it.

[Todd Stock]

Certainly some value there, Mike, but it begs the question of whether using the tool or sharpening the tool more useful. It may be that time with tool in hand is time with the tool.

There's also the issue of enjoyment. For a business, sharpening is overhead that - while necessary - is a task that is to be done as quickly as possible and only as often as necessary. For a hobbyist, it seems like every moment engaged in craft or related activities should generate pleasure, so the concept of 'spending' time as a resource only comes into play when we impose some notion of deadline or schedule on our hobby activities.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’m in business and feel it was worth it to learn how to sharpen freehand so I can avoid needing to figure out how to jig my tools.

There are times when I sharpen 10-15 chisels in the evening. I’m there to make them sharp so I can use them again the next day,

Same with plane irons.

Not to say I don’t enjoy the process, but it’s a regular thing rather than a special occasion.

[James Pallas]

I'm with Brian here. It is well worth it to free hand. I have guides and use them to change bevel angles for the most part. Once you figure it out its is like riding a bike. Your bevels may not look like magazine pictures all the time. They will work even if a little ugly. I side ways sharpen and I wouldn't do the Sellers thing. I can do it it just seems more difficult to me. If you do any carving now or in the future you will have to free hand anyway. The only gouges I have with parallel sides are some firmers that are huge. If you must use a guide than maybe you can learn to put up with a few degrees out of square and let your eye make the correction.
Jim

[glenn bradley]

Didn't see the Veritas MK-II mentioned. I have a few guides and the MK-II is for the situation you describe. I added a strip of sandpaper to one of the jaws to improve grip on angled (tapered?) blades.

[James Pallas]

Didn't see the Veritas MK-II mentioned. I have a few guides and the MK-II is for the situation you describe. I added a strip of sandpaper to one of the jaws to improve grip on angled (tapered?) blades.
I have a Veritas MK-II and I have to say that I have never had a problem with it holding chisels or plane irons. I have to admit that I don't use it a lot. I usually use it to change bevel angles or take out a bad chip. I have to say that I believe that if the chisel or iron is moving that too much pressure is being used. I think if it like sandpaper if I use it. If you need more pressure to get it to work you need a course grit stone. To me just like a sanding block. If you have to press hard on the block to get it to work go to a course grit and work up.
Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

Todd,
I believe one could make an argument that freehand can be fast.

I followed the progress of other posters on this forum and bought a better tool rest and a CBN wheel, actually two. I had a bad experience with my old Tormek rest and ended up purchasing a Stuart Batty rest and Stuart Batty angle setter. “Robo Hippy” also makes a rest that many like. Robo Hippy posts on the Turners Forum on SMC.

If one wants to sharpen fast Todd,
I think “freehand” hollow grinding on a CBN wheel can create a bevel that just about anyone can “freehand” sharpen. Particularly if they start out working along the length of the edge. Maybe the “more advanced” sharpeners make the hollows and others just maintain those hollows.....

I learned to make hollows, even cambered hollows, in plane blades first. Once I learned to touch those hollows up by hand, using hard, waterless, Spyderco stones. I found it easy to adjust to sharpening chisels and other tools regardless of whether there was a hollow grind or not. For me the immediate feedback on CBN wheels was what I needed to be able to actually see what was going on. Believe it or not the cost to my plane blades was negligible, as I could see immediate results.

I have multiple blades for most of my most used planes, but those blades may have multiple cambers. As a result, unlike Brian above, I tend to sharpen as I go. Hitting 10>20 passes on a waterless stone usually does not slow my work progress down as much as a dull blade does. I find that not having to change the tool I have developed a feel for during the work may out weigh the time spent maintaining “sharpness”.

I am currently experimenting with Buffalo hide and charged Buffalo hide as a method of maintaining sharpness vs grinding.

[ken hatch]

Todd,
I believe one could make an argument that freehand can be fast.

I followed the progress of other posters on this forum and bought a better tool rest and a CBN wheel, actually two. I had a bad experience with my old Tormek rest and ended up purchasing a Stuart Batty rest and Stuart Batty angle setter. “Robo Hippy” also makes a rest that many like. Robo Hippy posts on the Turners Forum on SMC.

If one wants to sharpen fast Todd,
I think “freehand” hollow grinding on a CBN wheel can create a bevel that just about anyone can “freehand” sharpen. Particularly if they start out working along the length of the edge. Maybe the “more advanced” sharpeners make the hollows and others just maintain those hollows.....

I learned to make hollows, even cambered hollows, in plane blades first. Once I learned to touch those hollows up by hand, using hard, waterless, Spyderco stones. I found it easy to adjust to sharpening chisels and other tools regardless of whether there was a hollow grind or not. For me the immediate feedback on CBN wheels was what I needed to be able to actually see what was going on. Believe it or not the cost to my plane blades was negligible, as I could see immediate results.

I have multiple blades for most of my most used planes, but those blades may have multiple cambers. As a result, unlike Brian above, I tend to sharpen as I go. Hitting 10>20 passes on a waterless stone usually does not slow my work progress down as much as a dull blade does. I find that not having to change the tool I have developed a feel for during the work may out weigh the time spent maintaining “sharpness”.

I am currently experimenting with Buffalo hide and charged Buffalo hide as a method of maintaining sharpness vs grinding.

Mike,

Like you I sharpen as I go and seldom is a chisel needing a touch up put back in the rack. If your set up is like mine with the sharpening bench a step or two off the working end of the main bench and the stones are always out and ready sharpening takes no time away from working. If I were to use a jig it would slow the process and I expect I would end up working with less than optimum tools for no other reason than the hassle of jigging up the iron.

Anyone who claims using a jig is faster than freehand either does not have a good set up or doesn’t have a clue.

ken

[steven c newman]

This REALLY answers the OP question...doesn't it.....WOW...don't hold back, tell us how you really feel....

[Jim Koepke]

[edit]
Anyone who claims using a jig is faster than freehand either does not have a good set up or doesn’t have a clue.

ken

Yes and no, the only honing guide in my shop is a rigged up blade holder from my power sharpening system (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=48435&cat=1,43072). They are faster than freehand sharpening for reestablishing a bevel or to remove a big nick. For everyday sharpening freehand is faster. My blade holder is usually only used on a coarse ~320 grit. The holder is then removed with the remaining honing being done freehand.


Hi all,

Got the lovely honing guide from LN which is great for plane irons.
However, most of my (old / second-hand) chisels are tapered...
Are there any tricks for putting the tapered chisels into the honing guides?

Bram

If each chisel is tapered different, there isn't likely an easy trick for correcting this situation with a side clamping guide.


This REALLY answers the OP question...doesn't it.....WOW...don't hold back, tell us how you really feel....

The "trick" for the OP, quoted above, may be to learn freehand sharpening. That is my true feeling. :)

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

Sorry Steven,
Sometimes the “trick” may mean different methods. I sure wish I found methods which allowed me to sharpen faster sooner.

I bought several similar devices to the ones mentioned by the OP, but I never use them. I think a good tool rest and angle setter for a grinder trumps the need for the devise the OP mentions. One might argue that the tool rest and angle setter on the grinder are doing the same thing as the OP’s devise on a coarser/faster mechanical devise.

Ken,
I use to have the “set up” you mention in my shop. Lately I have been moving, so I have my sharpening gear in a mobile kit. I am eager to get back to a similar “set up”.

[ken hatch]

Sorry Steven,
Sometimes the “trick” may mean different methods. I sure wish I found methods which allowed me to sharpen faster sooner.

I bought several similar devices to the ones mentioned by the OP, but I never use them. I think a good tool rest and angle setter for a grinder trumps the need for the devise the OP mentions. One might argue that the tool rest and angle setter on the grinder are doing the same thing as the OP’s devise on a coarser/faster mechanical devise.

Ken,
I use to have the “set up” you mention in my shop. Lately I have been moving, so I have my sharpening gear in a mobile kit. I am eager to get back to a similar “set up”.

Mike,

Good luck on finishing the move. It can be interesting working out of a travel kit :).

ken

[Todd Stock]

No doubt, but unlike a hobbyist, I work with students that range in experience from 'never touched a tool' to experienced woodworker. With no more than about 200 hours in the program, what works best is getting to sharp as quickly as possible, which is perhaps a 1 to 2 minute process with a reliable jig-based technique - fast enough in my view. I'd love all my students to develop further skills following completion, but they are already building an instrument better than anything else they are likely to find in most music stores, so that has to be the focus of instruction.

[Todd Stock]

We don't rack a dull tool, but that's a practice forced by having more than one person in the shop. I recall the Zen of honing in the evenings as well - it can be an enjoyable wind-down - just not something that works for me in the current student environment.

[Todd Stock]

Righty-tightie - lefty-loose works - that round thingie on the side of the jig can be used to tighten the jaws and the 'by design' slightly loose index pins and machine screw connections handle the rest. Anyone with at least average grip strength should not require the use of a screwdriver to bring things up tight. Student on Wednesday, but I'll try to get a video up explaining the operating principals at work.

[Todd Stock]

I'd suggest that those familiar with a side-clamping jig - the fastest of the common variety, IMO - can go from dull block plane in hand to sharp tool and back to work in a minute or less. My newb luthier students certainly can manage back to work in under 2 minutes, and few of them have any real hand tool woodworking skills when they arrive. I'd think the same might be true in terms of speed for someone with a reasonable degree of proficiency in so-called freehand honing. So it's really a case of priorities and time.

[allen long]

Sorry, late to the party. No one has mentioned the Richard Kell honing guide. I retrofitted mine with the ledger diameter wheels. That said, I only use it for chisels less than 1/4" wide. This is because that even with a lot of practice sharpening by hand, narrow chisels are difficult to get a proper register by feel across the narrow edge end. Otherwise it is much faster to quickly sharpen by hand.

My sons both claim that for about a year, I was obsessed about practicing hand-sharpening and honing chisels and plane irons as sharp as humanly possible. Of course, reading sawmill creek did not help fuel that obsession at all! :D

[Luke Dupont]

There are so many great tools that just don't fit into jigs, and you need huge stones to use them. It's for these reasons that I feel jigs to be a true handicap. It also saves time as you're not needing to take things in and out of jigs, and adjusting them to angle references. You just go straight to the stone.

People will gasp and stick their nose up at this suggestion, but:

I really don't see the need for a honing jig at all. You also don't need a grinder / hollow grind. You can give a complete beginner a coarse stone and a chisel, a reference for 30 degrees, and have them go until they turn a burr. It doesn't even matter if they rock and make a convex bevel, or if they stay flat, or if they end at 30 degrees or 28 degrees or 32 degrees. As long as they remove the burr on the finish stone, it'll be sharp, and it'll work just fine. Maybe they don't go enough on the finer stone and it's not so sharp. Maybe they leave the burr on. Either way they'll quickly realize this and fix it.

It's just not that hard. The main problem people have is setting up the chisel to begin with. But give anyone a well set up chisel and a coarse stone to start with and I think you'll find they have a very easy time of sharpening. My problems as a beginner were: My back wasn't perfectly flat, and the irons came with a huge microbevel / dubbed by some buffing wheel from the manufacturer (and I was starting on a #1000 grit stone, which wasn't coarse enough to get down to the edge quickly).

Frustration begins when people start learning on stones that are too fine, and/or aren't flat. So, just get a coarse diamond plate for starters and some finer stones to follow up on.

Edit: I can see how, if you're sharing tools, having them all sharpened inconsistently could be undesirable, though. If people are using their own personal tools, however, learning to sharpen freehand is a fundamental and very beneficial skill.