SawStop 3hp or 5hp?

[Steve Mathews]

I'm wrapping up the details of my next cabinet saw purchase but haven't decided yet whether to get the SawStop Industrial 3hp or 5hp. The 3hp cabinet saw I had previously served me well and never seemed to lack power. Rob Cosman in his review of the same saw stated he never had a situation where a larger motor was needed. As a DIY'er my needs are certainly much less than his. Are there circumstances when a larger motor is helpful? Thoughts?

[Keith Hankins]

Ok, all I can do is share my experience from a few years back. I had a grizzly 1023slx with 7' table (3hp) that I used for over 10 years. It was a solid solid machine. I paid 1100 new and sold it for 800. It would do the nickle test even when I sold.

The only complaint I ever had was when making pencil post beds, it would grunt on 12/4" cherry. 6 or 8/4 no problems. That's with a Forrest WWII. I did get a 20T rip blade to break down wide to posts.

When the sawstop came out I was a huge fan. I saved my pennies for years, to buy it. When I finally had the go to do it, I wanted 5hp to handle the thick stuff. That was a need I specifically had. I would have bought the PCS if I could have got it in a 5hp. You can't do that. I even called CS and asked a technical guy if I could by a 5hp motor from an ICS and retrofit it on the PCS. He indicated no, as the electronics are a little differently.

So it was either buy the pcs stay at 3hp or jump (or leap) to the ICS. I made the pro's and con's list (self justification). For me this was my last forever saw. So, I was not going to just settle. Second, the table surface is bigger, and that's nice. I'd used a pcs on several occasions and I liked the extra space in front and rear of the blade. I work in manufacturing as well, and I really Liked the interlocks on the cabinets. It's a real nice feature, to absolutely know if that doors is open its not coming on. (other work arounds for that)

Downsides....It's a lot more expensive. I looked for over a year for a used on to come on the market and it just don't happen that often. I had to consider the diff in $$ and consider that it's my last saw. I factored that over the years I plan on using it (till kids have to sell it), and the yearly incremental cost is squat really.

Only other downside is with 5hp had to put in a bigger circuit 4 wire and that copper was expensive. (you will need two hots neutral and ground as it has 110/220 needs.

End the end, I went with what I wanted and have never looked back. I can tell you this after these years, I have never ever ever uttered the words "dang I bought too much saw!"

It's only money and you go around once. Get what you want!

[Bruce Page]

I've never needed more than 3hp.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As an amateur, I can't imagine needing more than 3 hp. My current hybrid saw has 1 3/4 hp and I haven't stalled it yet.

[Steve Mathews]

Only other downside is with 5hp had to put in a bigger circuit 4 wire and that copper was expensive. (you will need two hots neutral and ground as it has 110/220 needs...



Whoa! This may have saved me from making a very costly mistake. I recently upgraded the electrical in my shop and added a lot of 220V outlets using 10 gauge wire but without a neutral. I checked the SawStop webisite this morning (before my earlier post) and one of their online manuals stated that 3hp and 5hp ICSs don't use a neutral. But that may not be the manual for the current model. I'll have to check this out. Thanks for the heads up!

Edit: I just contacted SawStop and the manual they referred me to states that their 3hp and 5hp single phase Industrial saws do not use a neutral wire.

[Matt Day]

I’ve never had a SS, but for the other saws I’ve had (Bridgewood, Unisaws, Powermatic 65) 3hp was plenty. I’ve got a 1.5hp 3ph Uni now and haven’t had issues. Even if I was to cut 12/4 like said above, that’s about 0.001% of the cuts I’d make. Just go slower for that 1 in a million cut, okay, 1/100,000 in my example. That being said, I did find a cheap 3hp 3ph motor I plan to put in the Uni one day.

[David Kumm]

Do you plan on a lot of deep dado work? That would impact my decision. I'm just a hobby guy but I've cut a lot of wood that needed more than 3 hp but never on a 10" saw. The decision would also be impacted by the quality of the motor if I intended to stress it with 12/4 oak or heavy dado work. Dave

[Steve Mathews]

Any downside to the 5hp over the 3hp except for the price difference?

[Neil Gaskin]

We have a 3hp in our Shop and I have never had an issue using the proper blade. It did does bogg down in anything greater than 8/4 With a combination blade. With the proper replayed it’s not a problem. I would not have a problem buying another one to replace it if need be. So the 3 hp is likely more than adequate.

With that said I have never regretted buying More power or capacity in a machine I have definitely regretted not buying enough. 3 hp saw stop is not one of the regrets

[Patrick Irish]

I just got a used 5hp industrial CB. I run it on my
30amp dryer outlet no prob. Couldn’t pass the deal up.

Next place a buy will have a larger panel. Also using 10awg wire.

Only downside I heard is if the brake fires it’s 100% gonna destroy the blade.

[Joe Jensen]

I faced the same decision. I had used a 3HP Unisaw for 10 years and then a 3HP PM66 for over 10 years. The only time I needed more HP was when using the saw to bevel a full 2.5" in oak. With a sharp blade I had to go slow and that it would burn. The 5HP was $100 more and I figured better safe than sorry.

[mreza Salav]

I have the 3HP ICS and has served me fine most of the time. However, if I was going to choose I'd pony up the $100 extra and get the 5HP.

[Ray Newman]

RE: 3 HP v. 5 HP costs. I just looked on the SawStop "build and price" page and the 5 HP is US$400.00 more.

[Martin Wasner]

Personally, I recommend going with the 3HP.

Running 5HP on single-phase is kind of pushing it to the limit. I like to describe it as driving your car 90 MPH wherever you go. It'll get you there fast but after a while you'll be wondering where that ticking sound is coming from. They tend to go through capacitors much faster than a 3 HP and although this is an easy thing to fix, it can cause unneeded downtime, most-likely when you are working under a deadline.

-Trent from SawStop

Use better capacitors.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, unless you're running a stock feeder I wouldn't go with the 5HP option, you'll obtain no benefit from it, and it will cost more, including electrical work.

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Mathews]

The wiring to my 220v outlets is already 10 gauge so that shouldn't be a problem for the 5hp motor. Apparently I'll have to change the breaker to 30 amps though. The existing 20 amp breaker seemed like a good fit for my previous cabinet saw and other 220v machines. According to SawStop their motors, as with the saws themselves are also made in Taiwan, which seems to explain claims that starting capacitors sometimes go bad. Asian motors are known to be harder starting than European or USA made motors. The warranty on Industrial cabinet saw motors is 5 years instead of 2 years on the Professional model. Hopefully that's an indication of a better made motor and a lesser tendency for the capacitors to fail. The only other consideration that I can think of has to do with resale value. I have a tendency to change equipment periodically, sometimes to upgrade and sometimes to explore something different. Would the 5hp motor be easier to sell than the 3 hp? If not, I'll probably go with the 3hp based primarily on the $400 added cost, which seems excessive to me.

[Mike Heidrick]

Not true for me. I own a 5hp SS. My brake fired because I put my thumb into the blade. Normal nick on thumb. Blade was sent to forrest for repair and test. 2 carbide teeth fixed and its back in action.

In 2006 the upgrade to 5hp was $200 and $400 bought the 7.5.hp

[johnny means]

Anybody who thinks 5hp over 3hp isn't significant just hasn't cut enough wood.

[David Ragan]

When I buy stuff, and I think later, "I shoulda got bigger/better...." I hate that.

So my last TS is this 5hp SS (my first was a Craftsman).....it is a joy to use; the saw never tires.

WW is just my hobby; the saw just sings right through anything I run through it 12/4 maple, oak, etc.

As for the blade viability post-emergency braking....I've done that about, I guess 4 times (I know.....), and only one blade warped where it could not be used safely.

The teeth of the WWII get knocked off, but still safe and useable.

If you can possibly afford it, get the big one, and don't look back.....and never want for another TS.

[Corey Pelton]

I had the same dilemma, but mine was between the 1.75 and the 3HP SS. I decided 3HP as it will cover pretty much anything I might need in the future. Therefore, go with the 5HP and be done with it!

[Warren Lake]

typical for me for one customer as an example was pick 30 boards 10 feet long 5/4 oak, rough rip no splitter or guard stuff. Tension release would be whatever it was depending on the board and also the rip width, that is how much was being removed or what the cut was. Oak was from Pennsylvannia and lighter and not as hard as oak for another job that was from Michigan, that stuff was more like white oak not quite but for sure harder and heavier. While i did it for many years the 3Hp saw was under powered for that, splitter would helped with tension release. So depending on what you are doing and how you are set up, properly or old school like me. 30 boards were run through the saw one after another 3Hp Leeson might start out fine and then start to struggle, I could run the RPM down pretty fast depending on how I was pushing. I get the blade thing sharp and right blade, for the way I worked that job it was underpowered other stuff fine.

What gets me is the few times ive been around carpenters building stuff. Those take the cale for underpowered, I think most electric shavers have bigger motors. One guy burned one out ripping Abeco deck boards then went home and got a smaller one.

[John TenEyck]

As a DIY'er I can't think of a single reason that would justify me buying a 5HP TS. Kickback force is proportional to motor HP; a SawStop doesn't prevent kickback. There is no cut in 8/4 and thinner stock I can't make with my 1.5 HP Unisaw with an appropriate and sharp blade. For anything thicker than that I use my BS.

John

[Steve Mathews]

OP here again... Probably reached the end of my noodlin' on the question of whether to get a 3 or 5 hp ICS. My previous cabinet saw was 3hp and it served me well, never leaving me short of power. I usually don't like to skimp on my tool purchases but in this case the extra $400 for a 5hp motor just doesn't make sense at present. However, I have a backup plan should my needs change. The cost to retrofit a 3hp ICS to 5hp is only $700 ($475 for the motor and $225 for some other electricals) or $300 more than the initial cost of the 5hp upgrade. Or am I missing something?

[David Kumm]

I think the only other costs might be sheaves and belts if the motor frame and shaft are different between the 3 and 5 hp.

I'm not sure i agree that a larger motor is more risky due to kickback. A motor that slows or stalls can create danger. I'd rather be overpowered than under but think the OP's decision making is sound for a 10" saw. Dave

[Warren Lake]

depends on the actual kick back ive been nailed by both and the 3 was worse. I wouldnt consider that on choosing motor size, Id want a motor that can do the work I need it to do in the way and speed i do it.

[Steve Mathews]

I think the only other costs might be sheaves and belts if the motor frame and shaft are different between the 3 and 5 hp.

I'm not sure i agree that a larger motor is more risky due to kickback. A motor that slows or stalls can create danger. I'd rather be overpowered than under but think the OP's decision making is sound for a 10" saw. Dave

I contacted SawStop a couple of times and they assured me that the only difference between the 3 and 5 hp ICS is the motor and contactor.

[David Kumm]

Are the motors IEC or NEMA ? Standard frame or proprietary? Not having to buy a motor from SS would also impact the decision about upgrading later. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

If I recall the 5HP single phase motor and the 7.5HP single phase motors where surprisingly about the same physical size as the 3HP.

[Steve Mathews]

If I recall the 5HP single phase motor and the 7.5HP single phase motors where surprisingly about the same physical size as the 3HP.

I don't believe SawStop offers a single phase 7.5HP motor, at least according to their current website. That's only available in 3 phase.

[David Kumm]

I'm not surprised if various motor hp options were all fit into the same frame motor. that has become increasingly common as companies market HP but don't want to beef up their build to handle larger heavier frame motors. The downside is that the higher hp motors run hotter. The insulation handles the extra heat but the bearings fail more quickly. Replacing those high HP small frame motors is expensive because they are difficult to rewind and often the only replacements are available from the machine manufacturer who upcharges for them. As a matter of information it would be good to know what frame sizes are used and if larger motors use a larger frame. I always look at the motor efficiency and frame size relative to HP when researching machines. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

I don't believe SawStop offers a single phase 7.5HP motor, at least according to their current website. That's only available in 3 phase.

My mistake, you are correct. 7.5HP was 3 phase, but in the same frame.

[Martin Wasner]

I'm not surprised if various motor hp options were all fit into the same frame motor. that has become increasingly common as companies market HP but don't want to beef up their build to handle larger heavier frame motors. The downside is that the higher hp motors run hotter. The insulation handles the extra heat but the bearings fail more quickly. Replacing those high HP small frame motors is expensive because they are difficult to rewind and often the only replacements are available from the machine manufacturer who upcharges for them. As a matter of information it would be good to know what frame sizes are used and if larger motors use a larger frame. I always look at the motor efficiency and frame size relative to HP when researching machines. Dave

Not that failures are good, but bearings are cheap. My dust collector motor crapped out, less than a grand I was back up and running. That includes a stator rewind and having the fan balanced, which I want to say was $300 of the bill.

Getting a not light motor and fan down from eighteen feet in the air was a pain.

[Mike Heidrick]

Martin, scaffolding and chainfall ftw!

[Matt Mattingley]

A good comparison horsepower is aboat .8 of an inch depth of cut per horse power.

-A Hammer table saw with a 4 hp. motor and a 300 mm, can handle 3.2 inches depth of cut.
-A saw stop with 10 inch blade and 5 hp can handle a 4 inch depth of cut. This machine would be great for rebates.
-A good old general or UnI had a depth of cut of aboat 3 inches. But they really struggled above 2.5” with the three HP motor.
I have used the SS 3 hp at school, it really shows it’s limitations above the 2 1/2 inch range (or 10/4).

[Simon MacGowen]

I have used the SS 3 hp at school, it really shows it’s limitations above the 2 1/2 inch range (or 10/4).

The blade used could be a factor. I know most schools use a combo blade. I have had no issues cutting walnut or maple about 3 inch thick and 4 feet long on SS 3hp with a ripping blade on several occasions.

Simon

[Charlie Hinton]

You know the cuts you make.
You know how you feel about what you have now.
If it has never been lacking power why would you think that would change now?
Having said that, if you are going to get the ICS (taking in consideration the electricity is already in place) $3899 vs $4299 does not seem like much of a difference to me.
As accessories are added and the price goes on up that $400 becomes even less of a difference.
Only you know your money situation, if you won't remember spending the extra $400 in a month's time then just get the one you want.
If the purchase creates a financial burden you already have a great saw and while the SawStop is awesome it won't do anything (other than not cutting your thumb off) the saw you have will do.
Always fun to talk about getting tools.
Good luck.

[Robert Engel]

A large commercial shop ripping lumber with a power feeder.

[Martin Wasner]

Martin, scaffolding and chainfall ftw!

How about engine hoist strapped to the forks of a forklift? I was a good foot and a half short with just the forklift.

[Mike Heidrick]

Martin, a Diy fork truck jib crane! Love it. Dont try this at home kids!!

I had to lift my motor and impeller housing and this 4' inner intake tube up into the 6' cyclone housing so my chainfall was mounted at the top of the scaffolding. It was not the fastest but I had great control of it.

[Frank Drew]

My first saw when I opened my shop was a 5 h.p. Powermatic and my second, and last, a 6.5 hp (5kw) Ulmia. With a 12" blade, either one could, and did on occasion, rip 16/4 material in one pass, a huge benefit when handling heavy timbers by yourself.