DC doubling as Shop Vac

[Gary Curtis]

Can I get by with only a portable DC? Money is tight, and a Fein Turbo II would put me over the top. Shop is small - new, large garage.

Gary Curtis:o

[Bernie Weishapl]

Gary I got by with a Delta AP300 that I got off the auction site for $100 including shipping. For $25 I got a 5 micron bag for it. I put it under the bench when not needed. I used it with good results for a good while. I just upgraded to a Harbour Freight DC 2 hp for $159 + $8.99 for shipping. You would need to get different bags for it because they are 30 micron.

[tod evans]

several sides to this...what do you want d/c for? to keep the shop clean, to keep your lungs clean, to keep your equipment in top shape??????? i made the choice a few years back to spend the bucks on d/c so i could get a cleaner product out of my machines. the broom and snow shovel wasn`t a problem for me but inconsistant results from the shaper and moulder where a big issue, plus i wanted to go with power sanding and that requires a d/c regardless. i realize this isn`t much help in answering your question about roll-around units vs a good shop-vac but before you plunk down any hard earned dollars you need to asses your needs then find the most cost effective solution. there are numerous ways to skin this cat and none i know of that are inexpensive......tod

[Ron Fritz]

Gary; I have a stationary DC with 4" PVC lines running all over the shop to each of my stationary tools. I also put in (3) drops using 2 1/2" flex hose (with extra extensions if needed) to use as a shop Vac - one line doubles for the router table too. Even though I do have a separate shop vac, 85% of the time I use the DC as a shop vac. It works much better and the clean-out is easier. Ron

[Dan Forman]

Gary---I have been using a 16 gallon capacity Rigid shop vac as a stop gap measure untill I get my Oneida connected. It is not very satisfactory as a dust collector. If you have a 5 micron bag on a dc, you will still need to wear some sort of mask, as the small dust particles are the most dangerous. I would see if there is any way to work into a cartridge type system which would filter down to 1 micron or less. Some bag dc's can be modified to take a filter down the road when you can afford to upgrade.

Here is a link to add on cartridges http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

Dan

[Gary Curtis]

Here are my needs:

1-man shop Large, empty, new garage. Wired for 220.
Machines - TS, BS, DP, Small Lathe, WoodRat w/ 3.5hp router

Objectives - health. I don't do well with dust. Keep the place clean until my new larger shop building is constructed.

The machine dealer who sold me my General TS suggested I upgrade from the 3/4hp roll-around DC by General (550cm) to their 1.5hp portable unit with 1200 cfm. This larger unit has two bags. He'll fit a 1 micron bag on it for me.

If I buy the small unit and the Fein Turbo II, it is only about $100 more than the larger DC unit by itself. I can get Harbor Freight shop vac hose and floor sweep.

He said the 550cfm was good for my tablesaw. But it might be a bit week when I get a planer/jointer later on.

So, the issues are money, and can I get by with the smaller DC unit and companion shop Vac. The smaller DC does not have the 1-micron bag, so it it wouldn't be as healthy.

GC

[Ed Blough]

Of course a Dust collector can be used as a Shop Vac. However remember most (not all) Dust Collectors allow things sucked up to pass through the fan. Nails and big chunks of wood can damage the fan and I guess a nail or something metal sucked up hitting a metal fan could cause a spark that could theoretically cause the dust to ignite.
This can be solved by a turbine capture unit placed before the inlet to the DC.
That said I use mine as a shop vac all the time. I have a Shopsmith DC3000. The fan on it has taken more than a few shots from chunks of wood and nails picked up on occasion but after 15 plus years it is still in near perfect shape..
Also it's suction is not as high as most vacs but it does an adequate job.

[tod evans]

gary,i don`t know that there`s a good answer to your dilemma......the dealer is correct in suggesting the larger unit for the machinery but what to do with your router set-up? the hepa filter in the good shop-vac set-ups is fantastic but do they really capture the dust at the source or would you be using it as an electric broom? is a home built down draft table for use with the router an option? this could be used with the d/c unit. from what i`ve read the .02 micron filters are not unreasonably priced if the dealer would pop for the upgrade that may be an option while retaining the cfm of the larger unit? read everything bill pentz has written so you can make smart moves when you decide to. the man knows his stuff!! tod

[Gary Curtis]

Gotcha on the flying missile phenom when using a floor sweep with a DC.

My dealer can install a 1 micron bag on the larger of the 2 DC units. This one has an upper and a lower bag. The 3/4 550cfm unit has one bag, so recirculating air and all the trash get dumped right into it.

As far as router dust -- 90% of my routing will be done on the Wood
Rat. It has fabulous dust collection. I'll do a fit of freehand routing and, I believe my DeWalt 625 has a dust port. If I put a router top on my saw extension table, the best I can think of is getting a fence from BenchDog, Incra, Jointech or Rousteau. They have a dust port. Don't know how good any of those options are.

The more I think about it, that smaller DC would really constitute a hazard in teh shop because of the porous bag. It would serve on the bigger machines. But of course, if I went that route, the Fein would be on duty for things like the routing, belt sander, orbital sander -- the places where the serious unhealthy dust is generated.

As if any dust could ever be considered healthy. Ha.

GC

[Ed Lang]

When I was in your boots, I read Bill's site as suggested above. There is a LOT of information on that site so don't expect to take it all in the first few times you visit it.

Bottom line is your health. Period, end of story.

Getting the dust out of your enviroment is easy. Install a large blower and run duct to each machine. The exit of the blower will blow outside. All dust collected is not gone. One problem with this is so is your heat and cool!! So, you have to filter the air and return it to the shop. Now there are two ways to do this. One, run the air thru a filter material to trap the dust... This filter will clog and the air flow will go down causing you to collect less dust at the machine and before long, you are back to breathing dusty air. Second way is a cyclone type of seperation. You will seperate almost all of the dust from the air before it gets to the impeller and then you will filter the exit air and return it to the shop. The cyclone will cost more than the other means. I had no idea that my shop would be so clean after I installed my ClearVue Cyclone and ran 6" duct. I still have some work to do on the system as no all of my dust monsters are connected yet. Would I buy the system again, you bet I would.

If you cannot swing a cyclone right now, maybe a broom, dustpan and a GOOD mask will keep your health till you save up for the cyclone. If you want to use the broom less, then the bag unit AND a good mask will get you by. Please look out for your health and those who will be in your shop.

Remember to catch the dust where it is generated BEFORE it get into the air. Once it gets into the air around the machine, hope is lost and you must have a good mask on to protect your health.

If you like to build metal stuff or willing to try, you can build a cyclone with Bill Pentz's plans. I did not want to build one and I wanted Bill Pentz design so that is why I went with the ClearVue.

Good luck and stay healthy.

[Keith Outten]

Gary,

I have a twenty five foot length of 4" flex hose with a 48" long piece of PVC pipe on the end which makes short work of vacuming my shop floor. Hands down the best Vac in the neighborhood. I also own a traditional vac but only use it for metal chips and occasionally on my ROS.

[Paul Comi]

Gary,

I have a twenty five foot length of 4" flex hose with a 48" long piece of PVC pipe on the end which makes short work of vacuming my shop floor. Hands down the best Vac in the neighborhood. I also own a traditional vac but only use it for metal chips and occasionally on my ROS.

That is a lot of flex and I'll bet it works well, but I have another take on the whole situation because I'm too lazy to even go around sucking up the ground through any sort of collector.

The best $50 I think I've spent indirectly on woodworking so far is the Black and Decker cordless leaf blower that hangs on its recharger by the garage door. Open the door, blow everything down including the top of the table saw, etc all out the door once a week or more often when the floor has a lot of curlies or sawdust on it. I do it the day before the gardener comes by with his mow and blow crew and they take it from there, but even if you have to sweep it up yourself, its more efficient to sweep up a pile after you've blown all the junk out from the bottom of all your tools into an open space like a driveway. Just be sure to turn on the air filtration unit to catch the small stuff so it doesn't come back down on the level surfaces. Orchard Hardware in California had the thing on sale for $49 just this week, and we bought a couple for both sets of our parents as Christmas presents.

[Gary Curtis]

I think I've come to a conclusion.

Get the 1.5hp 1200cm roll-around DC - with the 1 micron bag
Get a used shop vac cheap, one that will accept an HEPA filter

Until I get the later, I'll spend $59 on Highland Hardware's shop vac accessory package and just plumb the 2.5-inch hose into a reducer on the 4" Dust Collector. Shouldn't need for more than a few months until I snag a Shop Vac. The hose will be very flexible, and give me the high air velocity that's good for vacuuming. Shouldn't be any nails around to impale my impeller. Or, is that "impel my impaler'?

That will cost me less than the DC/Fein combo. Thanks everyone. And I've read Bill Pentz on a few forums. What a guy!

Gary Curtis