Clico mortising bits

[Jeff Bartley]

Good morning SMC,

I have a set of Clico chisels for the hollow chisel mortiser and would love to buy the Clico sharpening set for them. Problem is, they don't make them anymore, or so I've been lead to believe.

Has anyone found any of the other cone-type sharpeners to work with the Clicos?

Sadly I missed a set on Patrick Leachs tool list last month......

Thanks,

Jeff
(who will need to sharpen the mortising bits soon!)

[Brian Holcombe]

Pretty sure Lee Valley sells a setup for that.

[Tom M King]

The Lee Valley set works fine on Star-M's. Not sure about Clico's, but wouldn't think they're much different.

[jack forsberg]

Pretty sure Lee Valley sells a setup for that.
Like Tom said Leavalley’s are for the Japanese pattern not the British pattern. Completely different geometry . If you’re curious about the geometry and the difference between the Japanese pattern and the British pattern check out my IG feed.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZcVKHmH9bx/

[jack forsberg]

Good morning SMC,

I have a set of Clico chisels for the hollow chisel mortiser and would love to buy the Clico sharpening set for them. Problem is, they don't make them anymore, or so I've been lead to believe.

Has anyone found any of the other cone-type sharpeners to work with the Clicos?

Sadly I missed a set on Patrick Leachs tool list last month......

Thanks,

Jeff
(who will need to sharpen the mortising bits soon!)

Copy it quick before they take it down
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morticing-Chisel-Sharpening-Set-n700173-/190934279703

[Jeff Heath]

If you know your effective angle, you can turn a hardwood taper and cover it with 3M "scary sharp" paper. I have the sharpening set now for my mortise machine chisels, but this is how I used to do it. Works just dandy. I do the same around dowels for molding plane irons and gouges.

[jack forsberg]

If you know your effective angle, you can turn a hardwood taper and cover it with 3M "scary sharp" paper. I have the sharpening set now for my mortise machine chisels, but this is how I used to do it. Works just dandy. I do the same around dowels for molding plane irons and gouges.
HERE YOU GO jEFF .
not much use to you if you do not have the reamer or files for the corners

386158

386159

386160

[Brian Holcombe]

Like Tom said Leavalley’s are for the Japanese pattern not the British pattern. Completely different geometry . If you’re curious about the geometry and the difference between the Japanese pattern and the British pattern check out my IG feed.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZcVKHmH9bx/

Thanks Jack, very much appreciate your insights!

[Jim Morgan]

Like Tom said Leavalley’s are for the Japanese pattern not the British pattern. Completely different geometry . If you’re curious about the geometry and the difference between the Japanese pattern and the British pattern check out my IG feed.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZcVKHmH9bx/

LV offers two sizes of honing cones. The larger set, 77J81.22, is for the Japanese chisels they sell; the smaller set, 77J81.20, is for their "economy" square chisels. YMMV.

[Jeff Bartley]

Thanks, I enjoy your Instagram feed Jack, but I must have missed that mortise chisel post the first go-round.

I'll keep looking for the correct cones, in the mean time I might try turning a hardwood cone, that's a good idea Jeff.

It's actually amazing how well these Clicos work considering how many mortises they've cut, all I've done is lightly polish the outer faces.

Funny thing about these Clicos: they came with the Fishe mortiser I bought used years ago and the fellow I bought it from wanted to keep the sharpening set for the Clicos. I wish I still knew how to get in touch with him, I doubt that set has been of any use to him.

I have another mortiser in the wings to be be restored (an Oliver 91) that came with a pile of greenlees and other old chisel sets. For those I will definitely need a set of sharpening cones!

[Jeff Heath]

HERE YOU GO jEFF .
not much use to you if you do not have the reamer or files for the corners

386158

386159

386160

Jack,

I'm well aware of the process. I should have clarified my post, being that different chisel makers used different effective angles, which is why we all know that the diamond cones available at Lee Valley are not good for Greenlee and Forest City square mortising chisels. Even the drill bits contained within are different types, and are not interchangeable.

I have access to a Greenlee 720, which is the hone for their, and the Forest City, chisels. Obviously, the hones and cones do not take care of the corners. With a little "outside the box" thinking, an 1/8" piece of hardwood can be shaped and covered with varying grits of scary sharp paper to sharpen and hone, to a mirror polish, the inside corners of the chisels. For those who haven't had the opportunity to use a chisel mortiser, the fine tuning and polishing of the inside of the square chisels is every bit as important as the outside. It makes the machine a pleasure to use, and does a very fine job of cutting clean mortises. Without that, you will burn up chisels and bits quickly. Since Greenlee and Forest City are no longer manufacturing these tools, there will be an ever shrinking supply of tooling available, so it's important to know how to take care of your tooling.

I have a full set of Greenlee and Forest City tooling for my Oliver 91D, with several back-ups in each side. I take special care to sharpen them well so I do not burn them up. When they're gone, they're gone.......

I didn't feel it necessary to go into such detail in my previous post.

For those who do not know, this is a Greenlee 720. It's sole purpose in life is to sharpen and hone mortising chisels.

386175

This 720 belongs to a friend of mine. They are made of unobtainium, and if you ever find one in the wild, they are worth more than gold.

[Warren Lake]

worth mentioning I bitched to Lee several times their auger bits were made undersize and dont fit some pro machines. I think I read in a recent flyer that the stuff on sale was standard sizes. I think it was the lower of the two qualities they sell. Ive still been waiting for them to run out of what they had made in the first place and hope that when they re order a volume of the better chisels they are made to the American and British sizes, never had any sizing issues with stuff from either of those shores.

[jack forsberg]

Nakahashi is the the maker of Star M brand and they do make a British pattern set

http://www.ns-co.com/english/html/

the Star M brand is the one that both Smchmidt's and bobby at woodworker tools works and lee valley sale as high grade Japanese pattern bits. It is the same company and these bits have been made for some 50 odd years by them. as to there web site " the star M are described as "Standard line up" with this build


Manufactured from the finest and select Japanese carbon steel best suited for these tools.
The original Japanese Pattern Disign. Chisels have finely polished cutting blades with sharp pointed and releaved inside corners for stress free clean cutting. The bits have a brad point, one cutting lip and one spur for straight cutting and superb chip ejection.
Conbination of material, design and craftmanship ensures superior performance in soft and hard woods.
Complete specifications to fit most chisel morticers in the world market.
Complete size coverage (3mm to 36mm) to ensure that entire user needs are met.
These best performing tools have been imitated thoughout the world, but never been duplicated in performance.

yes you read that right 3mm!!!! I have one

The new tooling is so much better than Star M has only been in manufacture sense 2005 and is not the the garbage that most often makes its way to the US. They are described as production bits


These Hollow Sguare Mortise Chisels & Bits are specially designed for full automatic post and beam production lines.Chisels are made of special alloy to prevent breakage from excessive stress under high volume production lines.
Bits have 2 cutting lips, 2 flutes and 1 brad point and HSS tipped for prolonged tool life.
Complete range of specifications for MIYAGAWA, HEIAN, SHODA, NAKAJIMA, SHINX, and TOA Pre-cut lines.

here is closer look at the British pattern bit by Nakahashi


386186

386184

386185

its called a Heian AZ chisel set. But i had to look on the Japanese site and translate. here is what the Japanese site has to say about this tooling.


It is a high-spec model that corresponds to the severe cutting conditions in the factory pre-cut. [/I]
Compared with third-party, boasts the "stability that can be used with confidence over a long period of time" and "smooth skin off."
We have gotten good reputation from users like that has good compatibility with difficult-to-cut materials of kiln-dried wood, lumber collection, simultaneously processing the laminated wood and solid wood. Adopts special alloy steel case, we have significantly reduced the cracking of pre-cut processing. Since the cone is adopted high-speed steel, almost no drop off and chipping of the cutting edge compared with carbide, and has realized the smooth cut skin. Trouble is very small even in harsh environments in both case-cone, You can use it with worry over a long period of time. In addition, re-abrasive is also excellent, because it can be used over a long period of time, it will contribute significantly to the cost of your company.]

they make some other kit that is of interest to some builders too

386187


386188

there is a dovetail set that i do not have a pic of but back in the day Greenlee made theses as well ?

I have a good collection of hollow chisels for the Stenner in both english and japanese. There both good though I do like the english pattern for the larger spikes. the smallest set are 1/4"
386189

The set by my thumb is 1/4" and the 5th is a 7/16 Thomas White of Paisley. I use the chisels for small work or where i need a single square hole.



how the japanese can even make these is beyond mehttp://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/no.gif This is the smallest chisel you can get(3mm less than 1/8") and that's it beside the 1/4"





I will post more if there is interest ?

[jack forsberg]

Thanks, I enjoy your Instagram feed Jack, but I must have missed that mortise chisel post the first go-round.

I'll keep looking for the correct cones, in the mean time I might try turning a hardwood cone, that's a good idea Jeff.

It's actually amazing how well these Clicos work considering how many mortises they've cut, all I've done is lightly polish the outer faces.

Funny thing about these Clicos: they came with the Fishe mortiser I bought used years ago and the fellow I bought it from wanted to keep the sharpening set for the Clicos. I wish I still knew how to get in touch with him, I doubt that set has been of any use to him.

I have another mortiser in the wings to be be restored (an Oliver 91) that came with a pile of greenlees and other old chisel sets. For those I will definitely need a set of sharpening cones!

you can save your self the trouble of making a wooden cone by just shaping a die stone like this on the IG feed

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXqHbn5nCcv/?taken-by=jackenglishmachines

and if you do not have that fancy set up like jeff has the lathe works great

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTt_binlfc8/?taken-by=jackenglishmachines

by far the best is to size the bit
make sure to swipe side ways in IG
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTurKsdlBT6/?taken-by=jackenglishmachines

[jack forsberg]

worth mentioning I bitched to Lee several times their auger bits were made undersize and dont fit some pro machines. I think I read in a recent flyer that the stuff on sale was standard sizes. I think it was the lower of the two qualities they sell. Ive still been waiting for them to run out of what they had made in the first place and hope that when they re order a volume of the better chisels they are made to the American and British sizes, never had any sizing issues with stuff from either of those shores.
this is the problem there augers are not imperial . so if you have collects the run out is very bad

collects have to be custom made


see here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYoPsmUo9JQ


https://www.instagram.com/p/BIdS6OSAF3h/?taken-by=jackenglishmachines

[jack forsberg]

Jack,

I'm well aware of the process. I should have clarified my post, being that different chisel makers used different effective angles, which is why we all know that the diamond cones available at Lee Valley are not good for Greenlee and Forest City square mortising chisels. Even the drill bits contained within are different types, and are not interchangeable.

I have access to a Greenlee 720, which is the hone for their, and the Forest City, chisels. Obviously, the hones and cones do not take care of the corners. With a little "outside the box" thinking, an 1/8" piece of hardwood can be shaped and covered with varying grits of scary sharp paper to sharpen and hone, to a mirror polish, the inside corners of the chisels. For those who haven't had the opportunity to use a chisel mortiser, the fine tuning and polishing of the inside of the square chisels is every bit as important as the outside. It makes the machine a pleasure to use, and does a very fine job of cutting clean mortises. Without that, you will burn up chisels and bits quickly. Since Greenlee and Forest City are no longer manufacturing these tools, there will be an ever shrinking supply of tooling available, so it's important to know how to take care of your tooling.

I have a full set of Greenlee and Forest City tooling for my Oliver 91D, with several back-ups in each side. I take special care to sharpen them well so I do not burn them up. When they're gone, they're gone.......

I didn't feel it necessary to go into such detail in my previous post.

For those who do not know, this is a Greenlee 720. It's sole purpose in life is to sharpen and hone mortising chisels.

386175

This 720 belongs to a friend of mine. They are made of unobtainium, and if you ever find one in the wild, they are worth more than gold.


Thomas White of Paisley made one Jeff so there not that rare

386194

interesting that both the Greenlee and the White have the double angle cutters

386195

and look at this Jeff a chisel for the CNC boys

386196

as a treat here is a video of the Cliico factory the last British pattern maker to go down world wide . Makers of the Clifton planes too :)

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store//store/more/met2012.php?v=v

[Larry Edgerton]

you can save your self the trouble of making a wooden cone by just shaping a die stone like this on the IG feed

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXqHbn5nCcv/?taken-by=jackenglishmachines


I'm more in the necessity is the mother of invention camp, and this is how I manage my collection of old junk I have bought over the years. Start with a pink and move through a couple of finer ones, works for me. Dress to shape with a diamond dresser. And here I thought I was being all clever......:D

[jack forsberg]

I'm more in the necessity is the mother of invention camp, and this is how I manage my collection of old junk I have bought over the years. Start with a pink and move through a couple of finer ones, works for me. Dress to shape with a diamond dresser. And here I thought I was being all clever......:D
diamond dressers are costly. I don’t know how long I’ve been using that one blade but that I used to shape all my grinding stones for grinding shaper /spindle moulder knives too . Cheap as chips

[William Chain]

I sent you a PM. I have that toolset and if you’re close by, drop by and sharpen up.