Router recommendations

[Mike Manning]

I think it's probably beyond time for me to get a router and I'm hoping to get some recommendations from those of you with lots of experience. I'm just a hobby woodworker. These are the tasks I need/want to do and I believe a router would make doing said tasks easier:

Rounding edges
Cutting channels
Adding nuances to picture frames


These are tasks I've done within the last year and will be doing again where I think having a router would have made them significantly easier. This will be my first router. I know that it also needs to have plunge capabilities to cut channels. I don't believe I need a router that is at the top end power wise as I don't see myself using it that hard on on things that I'd guess would require that kind of power. I'm most interested in ease of use, safety and reliability. Most of my tools are used so I don't mind going that route if it will save me money but at the same time getting quality. I suspect that the router probably isn't like my 1940s Delta woodworking machines where I can expect a 70-year old machine to work just as well as a new one.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your recommendations.

Thanks!
Mike

[Peter Christensen]

Many companies have mid size routers (2 1/4hp) with barrel type motors that fit fixed and plunge bases. I have a Porter Cable that works okay but would probably get a Makita set if buying again. You just have to pick your favourite colour. Go to a Borg and look at a bunch of them then shop around or wait for a sale on the one you like.

[Mike Cutler]

I have Festools, Porter Cables, and a Milwaukee.
Even though I have the Festool's I really like the DeWalt's and the Bosch's. They both come in kit's with fixed and plunge bases. They're nice. I really like the Bosch 1617 kit. I might sneak a pair into the shop some day for use with a dovetail jig.
Routers are like rabbits, they should come in pairs. You really, really, really, want more than one. I promise. ;)

[Peter Kelly]

There's an Elu 3338 plunge router on Ebay right now for a buy it now price of $150 shipped. I've got a little bit older version of the same, probably one of my favourite tools.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Festool 1010 is a great router for light-medium work. Super smooth and easy plunge and the ability to plunge w one hand is really nice. I have a lot of routers. The 1010 is my fav. The 1400 is a more powerful version but no way performs as nice as the 1010. It is too big and tall and the plunge is not as smooth as the 1010.

[Dave Sabo]

The DeWalt 611 will tick all the boxes you mentioned and won't cost an arm and a leg. Easy to handle and accepts standard template guides available everywhere.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/02/10/dwp611pk-router-combo-kit-review


If you're going to be cutting channels larger than 3/4" x 1/2" on a regular basis you might want to step up to a 2+hp router.

[Nick Decker]

Mike Cutler is right. You may not realize it yet, but you'll end up with more than one.

You might want to start with a smaller trim router, like the Dewalt 611. But you'll eventually find that you need more power. I also hate being limited to 1/4" shank router bits and avoid them whenever possible. IMO, the Bosch 1617 series is hard to best in the mid- power range.

I see a router table in your future...

[Jim Becker]

For a "first" router, I personally believe that one of the multi-base kits are the way to go so one has fixed base when it's most appropriate and plunge capability when that's required for the work...with one motor. That makes the acquisition cost reasonable. The multi-base kit I have features the Dewalt DW-618 motor which is a 12 amp (~2.25hp) router that can do good work, including swinging mid-size bits in a table setup if needed. (It's not appropriate for the largest cutters in a table, however) All the major brands have similar kits and motors available, so "pick your favorite color" and enjoy!

[Jon Snider]

Personally I think the small laminate trimmers, such as the Dewalt 611 or Bosch Colt (both of which I love) are a little too small for a do it all first router. But definitely next on the purchase list. The Bosch 1617 is a great choice, can use both 1/4” and 1/2” chucks. Has an optional plunge base. Std base fits almost all available special templates for things such a lutherie work, etc. But why stop there? Looking around in my shop I see a Makita 3 1/4 HP 280, another laminate trimmer Rigid which I can’t recall buying and rarely use, a Porter Cable 7518 in router table, and a Porter Cable 690? retired after a well used life. I think you’re getting the point. It’s a disease. But I for one am not yet ready to look for a cure.

Happy routing,

Jon

[Dave Sabo]

I agree with you guys that most people will end up with several routers - but did you buy them all at once ? Nope !

I also agree that a 2.25hp DW618 -or- 621, Bosch1617 or a PC890 kit would make a better all arounder if you're only going to have one router. But you're not. See above.

So, given Mike's stated needs - a trim type router kit would probably make more sense for his first router. It will be easier to handle and learn on than a "bigger" more powerful router yet it will easily put an ogee or roundover edge on even walnut. Which do you think will be easier to add nuances to a picture frame with ? Something liek the 611 will also do groves as long as you';re not trying to hog out 3/4" x 3/4" grooves in something like ipe'. And the 611 is very nice for inlays, much easier than any 2.25hp unit.

He makes no mention of raising panels or making moldings on a router table, something a lot of us end up graduating to. But it's rarely what we attempt out of the gate. If it is, most will tool up for that initially and then come back here looking for a rec on a good handling handheld router for edges and inlay work. :)

[Mike Manning]

Guys,
This isn't the first time I've considered buying a router and as I started to checkout some of the models suggested I recall what has kept me from taking the leap and buying one - the incredible amount of poor reviews for routers like the Dewalt DW618 and the Bosch 1617. I'm sorry but I am unable to pull the trigger on a product where the number of very low reviews approaches 20% (1 in 5!). With respect to the Bosch 1617 there are so many reviews complaining about the poor design of the motor casing and how it engages with the bases which leads to a lot of trouble removing the router motor when needed. Add to that all the comments regarding the Bosch about proprietary methods of operation that make it impossible to use other templates and such that are almost industry standard excepting Bosch and that every thing has to be purchased separately. I hate that kind of corporate arrogance! Anyway, it just made me remember why I haven't bought a router. Sigh.

On a good note, I did check out the Dewalt 611 review and the 1 & 2 star reviews combined totaled 3%. That's more like it IMO. It seems underpowered and I'm wondering how it would perform cutting a 1/4" x 1/4" x 12" channel in BB or cherry or walnut? And will it be able to cut coves should I want to add a nuance to a pic frame? Anyway, at this point, I think that's the direction I'm leaning.

Anything I should know about the Dewalt 611 before buying? Any add-ons I should be considering?

Any additional feedback, more recommendations, etc are appreciated.

PS
I overlooked checking out the PC890 suggested by Dave. A quick look and it appears that's an older model and no longer being made. By series, does Dave mean the current model like the 892? Which appears to have 15% 1&2 star reviews. Shaking my head but I'll read them to see where the problems like with this router.

Thanks,
Mike

[Jim Becker]

Mike...consider this: online reviews typically skew to the negative for almost anything because folks are more inclined to complain about an issue than they are to praise something that's satisfying. That's the reality of how people act.

[Mike Manning]

Mike...consider this: online reviews typically skew to the negative for almost anything because folks are more inclined to complain about an issue than they are to praise something that's satisfying. That's the reality of how people act.

Jim,
I understand that to some degree and that's why I actually read the reviews. Definitely a common thread with the Bosch 1617 which I mentioned. I'll have to go back and finish the reviews on the DW618. Also, how do you explain the only 3% negative reviews for the DW611? Just an anomaly or maybe a more reliable product? Blows your theory out of the water though. Just sayin'. ;-)

Mike

[Mike Manning]

I just caught that Dave Sabo mentioned inlay work. That is definitely something I have been thinking about. Could the DW611 handle that?

[Dave Sabo]

First, 5 reviews is nothing. Not even a sampling in my opinion. Don;t get hung up on 20% negative. How many units do you think Bosch has sold of those? It's been around a while and if it were crap it would be discontinued. All brands have negative reviews, even festool which costs $500 and everything is xtra.

Second, bosch's quick change template system is first rate and available within a couple of days via mail at a competitive price. Often less than a PC branded set. They're carried by many specialty woodworking stores too. The same templates work on ALL of their routers. There's even an adapter at less than $10 if you want to use the ubiquitous porter cable type. Festool on the other hand has three different template systems for three routers, no adapters and cost double what bosch and pc cost. I have all three systems and the bosch is the best if you're switching between collars frequently, like for inlays. I prefer quality PC brass ones just for feel though. They're also available in stock right now at tens of thousand of locations across the country if I need one this minute.

Third, the PC890 is the base motor and the 1-5 designation told you what kind of base(s) came with. A D-handle , plunge base as well as the fixed base were sold in all sorts of combos. Same with Dewalts' 621 series. Knock on the PC is that the speed controller craps out on more units then it should. Otherwise its a fine tool. Mine are going on 15 years no problem, one i a router table.

Add on's to consider would be an edge guide which is handy for grooving work, already mentioned guide bushes, and dust collection shrouds if not included with the router you select. Some guys like to buy or make aux baseplates for the compact routers depending on the task. i/e dovetail work and some edging.

[Mike Manning]

First, 5 reviews is nothing. Not even a sampling in my opinion. Don;t get hung up on 20% negative. How many units do you think Bosch has sold of those? It's been around a while and if it were crap it would be discontinued. All brands have negative reviews, even festool which costs $500 and everything is xtra.

Second, bosch's quick change template system is first rate and available within a couple of days via mail at a competitive price. Often less than a PC branded set. They're carried by many specialty woodworking stores too. The same templates work on ALL of their routers. There's even an adapter at less than $10 if you want to use the ubiquitous porter cable type. Festool on the other hand has three different template systems for three routers, no adapters and cost double what bosch and pc cost. I have all three systems and the bosch is the best if you're switching between collars frequently, like for inlays. I prefer quality PC brass ones just for feel though. They're also available in stock right now at tens of thousand of locations across the country if I need one this minute.

Third, the PC890 is the base motor and the 1-5 designation told you what kind of base(s) came with. A D-handle , plunge base as well as the fixed base were sold in all sorts of combos. Same with Dewalts' 621 series. Knock on the PC is that the speed controller craps out on more units then it should. Otherwise its a fine tool. Mine are going on 15 years no problem, one i a router table.

Add on's to consider would be an edge guide which is handy for grooving work, already mentioned guide bushes, and dust collection shrouds if not included with the router you select. Some guys like to buy or make aux baseplates for the compact routers depending on the task. i/e dovetail work and some edging.

Dave,
What "5 reviews" are you referring to? The Bosch router has 40 1-star reviews not 5. I didn't get to the 2-star reviews.

PS Ok...I said "1 in 5"...20% of the reviews was bad...1 out of 5 reviews.

Mike

[Mike Manning]

Thanks Dave, Jim and everyone.

[Dave Lehnert]

I know you have a negative opinion of this DeWalt router but I just looked my purchase up on Amazon and have owned it for 14 years now with no problems.
I consider it one of my best tool purchases.
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618B3-Horsepower-Plunge-Fixed/dp/B0000CCXU3/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1526520264&sr=8-3&keywords=dewalt+dw618#customerReviews

[Nick Decker]

Mike, you asked about doing inlay work with the Dewalt 611. While I haven't done a lot of it, yes it's fine for that. In fact, a trim router is generally preferred because it's light weight and easy to control. Also good for things like hinge mortises, which are not very deep.

Like I said earlier, you'll probably want a more powerful router eventually, but you can often do a roundover or cove with more than one cut with a trim router.

More and more, I'm putting less importance on Amazon reviews. I know Amazon is fighting the problem, but there's a growing cottage industry of people getting paid for fake reviews. If it doesn't say "verified purchaser" I don't read it.

[Mike Cutler]

It might possibly be that the routers a lot of us have are fairly "old", and the new stock is not being made as well. This might account for the poor reviews Mike is seeing. I hope not, because I really did like the feel of the Bosch when I used one.

[glenn bradley]

As you have probably noticed, routers are nearly as personal as hand planes to some folks. All things being equal; motor fits and changes bases well, bases perform as expected, collet function and so forth it comes down to the feel of the machine in your hand. Some routers feel tippy, some have the grips in the right place for Ricky but feel all wrong to Fred.

I agree that reviews are as reliable as the people who write them and why. People do seem more anxious to post bad reviews than good and someone may have a rule of thumb formula of how many bad reviews you ignore to make up for all the happy people who didn't bother to share ;-)

Things I like about routers over the years; realizing that for each thing I like someone else may not care:

- Easy motor insert and removal - I don't want to have to do the watusi to remove the motor. My original Bosch Colt fixed base goes together like a puzzle. The plunge is great. They now have a 1.25HP version.
- Two wrench chucks - Never met a spindle lock I didn't hate . . . remember, this is just me talkin'
- Deep collet - it is near impossible to bottom out a bit on my Milwaukees.
- Soft start - Under 2HP, no big deal. Over 2HP I like a soft start.
- Variable speed - If you do a lot of routing, you know there is a sweet spot for different profiles. Like the drill press, the router seems like a different tool when run at the right speed for the bit/job.
- Motor feedback - Helps keep consistent torque and speed as you pass through the variations in your material.

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
I understand that to some degree and that's why I actually read the reviews. Definitely a common thread with the Bosch 1617 which I mentioned. I'll have to go back and finish the reviews on the DW618. Also, how do you explain the only 3% negative reviews for the DW611? Just an anomaly or maybe a more reliable product? Blows your theory out of the water though. Just sayin'. ;-)

Mike

If I'm not mistaken, the DW611 is a relatively new model whereas the D618 has been on the market for a long time. That could partially explain the skewing. If I'm not mistaken, anecdotally, a lot of folks have liked the DW618 here in the SMC forums over the years. I'm not familiar with the Bosch, so I don't know if the design thing you mention is relevant, but I suspect such a specific thing being mentioned a lot probably has bearing.

In the end, you'll have to select the brand and model you feel most comfortable with and also buy it from a vendor that you feel will provide you with good service if you need it. I have multiple routers; the aforementioned DW618 kit, a PC 7518 "big butt" router in my table setup and both the Festool OF1010 and OF1400 routers. I also had a PC 7529 plunge router which is still in service at a friend's house...I gave it to him years ago. All of them have consistently performed well for me. I have zero regrets choosing any of them.

[Jim Becker]

It might possibly be that the routers a lot of us have are fairly "old", and the new stock is not being made as well. This might account for the poor reviews Mike is seeing. I hope not, because I really did like the feel of the Bosch when I used one.
This is also a very likely true observation...many of the mass market companies are "not what they used to be"...and many of the brands are the same underlying company these days because of consolidations and buy-outs.

[Mitchell Ristine]

I have the 1617EVSPK. I am just a hobby guy too. I like the router and it serves my purposes well. One complaint about the router. The switch is prone to clogging with sawdust. So much so that I have to tear it apart and blow it out with my compressor every once in a while.

Note. I built a table with a bench dog plate. I do not use the plunge function all that much.

Happy building.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I'd suggest a midsize (2.25 hp) for a first router. I'd buy one of the kits that come with a fixed base and plunge base with a separate canister motor- most manufacturers sell one. You can do most any job with one of these- of course it's nice to have a smaller router for inlay and such, and a larger one for swinging panel raising bits in a router table, but the mid size can usually handle either task. And it's perfect for mortising, rabbeting, grooving, etc, which for me are what I spend the most time doing with a router.

I've only ever used the Bosch 1617 so I can't say much about how it compares to others, but I really like it. I cannot say I have noticed any issues with the motor not inserting properly into the bases. The plunge base I really like, and the fixed base is fine for handheld work, though I don't think it is great for mounting to a router table. It's perfectly usable, but tedious to adjust because you have to go under the table and unlock, adjust, and relock. The motor shifts around a little bit when you unlock and relock, so it can be a struggle to adjust the bit height by a tiny amount like 0.003". In handheld use gravity seems to keep the motor steady while adjusting depth, so it's not a problem. Bosch marketing makes a big deal out of above table adjustment for the fixed base, because they provide a hex head for the depth adjust screw on the underside of the base. But you still have to go under to unlock and relock so it's kind of pointless. I can't imagine other fixed bases being significantly different, but I could be wrong. A router lift is the way I want to go for a serious router table.

[Bill Dindner]

I like the Dewalt 618, if you get the combo with two bases, you can leave the fixed base in a shop made router table and use the plunge base for all other uses. It's nice to be able to use 1/2" shank bits for some heavier duty work. If you want to move down in power and are okay with 1/4" bits only, the Dewalt 611 is really nice and handy.

[John Sanford]

Bosch 1617EVS PK, i.e. variable speed combo kit.
DeWalt's is the 618.
Makita, I believe, also makes a combo kit.

[Peter Christensen]

I guess I was too subtile when I said a Makita. This is what I meant.

https://www.amazon.ca/Makita-RF1101KIT-2-1-Industrial-Router/dp/B00005OQME/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1526591856&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=makita+2+1%2F4hp+router+set

I've never met a Makita corded tool I didn't like. The 3 1/2 HP plunge and little trim are great and I don't see why the 2 1/2HP wouldn't be too.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I like to have two routers at my small shop since ages ago: one small (at 1 to 1 1/2 HP) and one heavy (at 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 HP). My first ones were Hitachi TR-12 for my "heavy router" paired by Porter Cable 690 for "light" one, both purchased at the end of 1980s or beginning of the 1990s... I am not sure.

Currently I have Bosch GOF 1600CE as my "heavy router" and Makita RT0701CX3 kit as my "light router".

For the needs you stated I think Makita kit would be great for you as it includes four different bases that you can use with the same motor. It includes also some interesting accessories, including different collects - mine came with 6 mm, 1/4 inch and 8 mm... it was essential for me as my bits are mainly at 8 mm and 6 mm, some at 1/4 inch. For heavy duty I use 1/2 inch collect, but obviously they are not to be used with this router.

I think DeWalt and Bosch also have similar "light duty" kits offering similar functionalities.

This light router is my most used one. I like to use it a lot! Strongly recommended.

[Charles Lent]

I think that all of my routers that have been purchased in the last 18-20 years have been yellow (DeWalt). I am not "hooked" on brand names, and each time that I decide that I need a new tool, I do comparisons between brand models to see which best suits me and what I'm doing. It has to be a reliable Brand and has to fit my needs, but I don't care what color it is, With this stated, all of my routers purchased in this period have been yellow, but I have several colors of older models/brands in my router stable. I bought a DW618 three base router kit about 20 years ago and liked it so much that I ended up buying a second one so I could have one for the shop and the other for the truck. I now also have a two base DW618 kit in the shop as well, and they have been my GOTO routers for most work since I bought them. I now also have a DW611 two base kit and a complete four base DeWalt laminate trimmer kit and use these two smaller routers for my lighter needs. None of these DeWalt routers have ever required service or let me down in any way since they were purchased, nor has any part of them needed replacement. I have been less happy with the DeWalt edge guide that has been available, and solved this by buying an M Power CRB7 for the shop. It works with most any router that has guide rod holes. I have used it with all of my DeWalt routers, but it seems to work with the DW611 plunge base the best. It's been a very accurate and multi purpose accessory and I expect that I'll be buying another one of them soon.

Charley

[Andrew Seemann]

I dislike routers and avoid them whenever possible.

Yet somehow I have accumulated at least a half dozen of them and a drawer full of bits. I have two Milwaukees in router tables, a couple DW618 3 base kits, a Rigid laminate/trim router and a couple of older 70s vintage routers. Of the hand routers, I use the DW618 in the D handle base the most. I like the soft start on the DeWalts and have always been partial to D handles, even though I think most woodworkers don't care for them. After that I use the Rigid trim router quite a bit. It is handy for quick chamfers and round overs as long as they aren't too big. I like the Rigid because the switch protrudes from the base and it turns itself off if you set it on its top. It is soft start as well.

If I could have only one router, it would be the 3 base DeWalt set; it is by far the most versatile with fixed, D handle and plunge base. And I am not even a big fan of DeWalt Tools. The trim router is awful handy as well.

[Mike Manning]

I really appreciate all the recommendations and comments. If I had to pull the trigger today I'm leaning to the Blue - Makita RF1101Kit2. Got a few Makita cordless tools, a corded grinder as well and I really like them. There are 0% 1-star reviews and 2% 2-star reviews on Amazon for the kit with fixed base, plunge base, 1/4" & 1/2" collets and wrenches. It does not come with a dust collection adapter. I believe I read at least one review that said the adapter wasn't very good even if you did buy it as an option.

Can anyone comment on dust collection with this router or any other comments good or bad for this Makita router? Sounds like edge guide isn't the greatest. Anyone got experience it or with a better replacement? An edge guide would seem very useful for some of the things I want to do with a router.

Amazon link to the router package...https://www.amazon.com/Makita-RF1101KIT2-4-Horsepower-Variable-Speed-Plunge/dp/B0002HC4IM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


One last thing, I'm going to wait and hope there may be a sale for Father's Day. Anyone recall if Makita discounts this router or their tools in general that might get me a discount on it then? Or maybe a retailer/reseller does?


Thanks!!!
Mike

[Charlie Hinton]

My first router used a ring that rotated around the motor to adjust height, I thought that worked fine until I got one that uses a knob/threaded rod system to adjust height.
I like the knob/threaded rod height adjust design much better.
My router pretty much stays installed on a simple router table so that probably influences why I like the particular design of height adjustment.
Spindle lock and soft start are very nice features, but not deal breakers for me.
If the router comes with an edge guide that's a plus.
I would get a router that comes with 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets.
Self ejecting collets are IMO essential.

[Charlie Jones]

I have a few smaller routers but I prefer a large one in a table. My Dewalt 625 has been under the table for many years. The upper bearing just failed. I replaced it with a Triton. I am in the process of rebuilding the Dewalt. I will use it as a plunger. Having said that. If I had to get by with just one router It would be a Bosch 1617EVS with both bases.

[Curt Harms]

Something no one has mentioned yet, I don't think. For handheld routers, you don't want too tall, they can be tippy. That's one of the complaints about the Porter-Cable 89x fixed base; it's pretty tall. I have one with the grip vac handle - sort of like a D handle with dust collection that works better than it looks like it would. The grip vac handle helps with the tippy issue. The Porter Cable plunge base seems like the DeWalt 618 plunge base machined to fit the Porter Cable motor. Porter Cable routers had significant reliability issues with their variable speed modules in the 7529 & 8529 series, I haven't heard any complaints with the 89x series.

[glenn bradley]

Can anyone comment on dust collection with this router or any other comments good or bad for this Makita router? Sounds like edge guide isn't the greatest. Anyone got experience it or with a better replacement? An edge guide would seem very useful for some of the things I want to do with a router.

I can comment on dust collection on routers and edge guides in general. Dust collection on a router is very dependent on the cut being made. I have a few dust collection fittings for various routers. The type that fits above and below the plate for edge forming are great for that task, useless for dados; I have another type for that. Edge work that is "open air" uses one kind of shroud:

386087 . 386089

whereas cuts made with the material setting on a surface uses another:

386086

There are several variations on these and in practice, they only come into play when I am doing a lot of repetitious work. In my one-man shop this is rare but, I wouldn't want to be without them.

I have a few edge guides and don't use them often. This is just me. I have grown into methods that use templates and/or guide bushings for these tasks where someone else would use an edge guide. Its just two ways of skinning the cat and there are more. If you have not found yourself pining for an edge guide I would wait. You could make a quicky shop made version for a task and see if an edge guide is your preferred way of doing that task.

386088

This picture is without any clean up after cutting the groove. In this case the edge guide and the dust shroud worked great. Other situations are not so great.

[Warren Lake]

the handles are up high on the big porter cable plunge, on the other model they are down low. They do different work. I have three of those one plunge and two of the lower handles forgot the numbers. Ive done a massive amount of work with them usually turned on and running for three hours straight. Zero issues with any of them and still original bearings.

[Charles Lent]

If you have a DeWalt DW611 router, DeWalt sells optional dust collection fittings for both the fixed and plunge bases. I found them on www.ereplacementparts.com and ordered both. They install via included thumb screws in existing threaded holes and can be removed and replaced easily. They seem to work quite well for the times that I've used them, but they do allow some dust to escape when doing some routing operations. I wish I could find similar vacuum pieces for my DW618 router fixed and D handle bases.

Charley

[Patrick Irish]

Really like my Bosch 1617 kit. Came with the fixed and plunge base. The fixed was mounted upside down in my table for a while but I honestly don't feel it's designed to support the weight. The adjustment stopped one day an I noticed a little C clip camp off. Lot of stress it put on the C clip when adjusting from above the table. I ended up getting a dedicated lift.

The 1617 has an edge guide that's great. I don't know about the above table dust collection. I don't think I have the piece but should look into it. The 1617 also gets used to trim rifle brass. Works great!

[Michael Rector]

For what it’s worth routers always scared the bejesus out of me. I hated how they tipped and sputtered, slippery plunges that overshot or were too sticky to plunge to the correct depth or would slip their collar.

That all changed when I picked up a Festool 1400. The smooth controls, the constant speed. Talk about a confidence giving router, everything about it made it worth the price. My regret wasn’t just buying it the first time around.

[Mike Kees]

Mike ,i just read this entire thread. There is a ton of very good advice here from actual woodworkers that have all owned and used the tools they mention for years. If it were me I would base my choice entirely on this advice and forget all about Amazons ratings. Basically they all work well, pick the size you need and then pick your poison (color). Good luck, Mike.

[Dave Sabo]

Mike, you seem to really be putting a lot of stock in "negative reviews". Where are you getting these reviews ? A quick check of Amazon's Makita review reveals 6-9 poor reviews out of 50 - so clearly there are unsatisfied customers for that make too.

Again , I wouldn't hang my hat on any of them.

""Can anyone comment on dust collection with this router or any other comments good or bad for this Makita router? Sounds like edge guide isn't the greatest. Anyone got experience it or with a better replacement? An edge guide would seem very useful for some of the things I want to do with a router."

Factory dust collection doesn't exist for this model so you'll have to cobble together something like Glenn shows from aftermarket companies. Dewalt , Bosch and PC all have integrated or optional dust shrouds for their routers. The edge guides from the three biggies are way better than the makita too. All offer wider fences and micro adjustment. If you want a good fence for the Makita , MicroFence makes and excellent one. You're gonna pay as much as you did for the router to acquire one though.

Changing bits is going to be harder or more frustrating on the Makita too. The shaft nut(s) are quite narrow and aren't going to hold the thin wrenches very well.

Do yourself a favor and forget that 1101, stick with one of the Dewalt,PC or Bosch units if decide to go the midsize 2.25HP route. There's a reason they outsell the Makita 2 to 1 or more. Go handle all three and pick which one fells best in your hand. Between Lowes and HomeDepot; you can handle all three as well as the makita and hitachi if you're lucky.

Makita also has a nice little trim router kit that should be looked at. That one does have factory dust collection accessories; though a poor fence too.

[Jim Dwight]

I have two junk routers, an old Craftsman and a J. C. Penney, and 4 "good" ones I actually use. What makes a really bad router is one that has a collet that slips and ruins wood. Both my junk ones do that. My Bosch Colt has slipped a bit before too but only when I pushed it more than I should have. I suspect other little routers with 1/4 collets will also slip if pushed. For any serious work you need a 1/2 collet. My other three good ones are two PC690s (with 4 bases) and an old Ryobi 500. Others may question a Ryobi in the good category and it did get a bit sticky (it's a plunge router) but I moved the 13.3 amp motor to the router table. Works great. It is not quite the "big router" 15A but I think it's strong enough. The PC 690s take care of the hand held work except for the lightest trimming/edge molding the Colt can handle.

If you want dust collection you might want to consider the DeWalt DW621. If I was to buy another router it might be this model just for the dust collection. I think it was Pat Warner's favorite router. Routers in general are huge mess makers but I think this one or a Festool might do OK. I doubt the others can unless you put a special base on them that looks like it would be in the way. I just make a mess and clean up.

[Warren Lake]

Little Routers or laminate trimmers with 1/4" collets dont slip. Ive had lots of them. Makitas started out tight and loosened up, I burned quite a few of those out, no issues with the porter cables. The makitas may be better now dont know. Never cared about dust collection, I have a broom.

[Randal Blair]

I'm a huge Triton MOF001 2 1/4hp fan - it is what is mounted in my table saw extension wing and is my most often used.
For bench work I use the DeWalt DW621 2hp model. They are both great routers. I go here for most of my router questions - http://www.routerforums.com/forum.php

[Jim Becker]

What makes a really bad router is one that has a collet that slips and ruins wood.

When a collet is slipping it needs to be replaced. It's not just about the project wood, but there is significantly increased risk to the operator for injury or worse. Collets are actually "delicate" things. They can be damaged by dropping them on the floor and over time, they degrade in effectiveness. Many folks don't replace them even on high-use routers and that's not a good practice. They are technically "wear items".

[Greg Hines, MD]

I have 4 Routers, a PC-690 set, a PC-890 set, a Triton, and a Dewalt laminate trimmer, also with a plunge base. I find them all useful. The 890 spends most of its time in the fixed base in the router table, as by drilling two holes in your mounting plate, you can adjust it above the table. The Triton I got with the expectation of building a Paulk Workbench and using it there, but so far, the bench is not yet assembled, so it is just hanging out. The Dewalt I purchased to do sign routing with a Rockler template set, and it works great for that. Of all of them, I still like my old Porter-Cable 690, which has both a fixed, plunge, and D-handle base, which is the one I use the most for edge routing and such. Whoever said you would want two, they are right. Its very handy to have one set up with a round-over and the other set up with a spiral bit for routing grooves and dados.

Doc

[Mike Manning]

Mike ,i just read this entire thread. There is a ton of very good advice here from actual woodworkers that have all owned and used the tools they mention for years. If it were me I would base my choice entirely on this advice and forget all about Amazons ratings. Basically they all work well, pick the size you need and then pick your poison (color). Good luck, Mike.

Guys,
The problem I have is that most of the recommendations come from folks who have had these routers for many years. I don't believe the routers available to me today are the same in quality. Reading the negative reviews it becomes fairly clear there are significant issues with both the Bosch 1617 and the Dewalt 618. Telling me I have an 75-80% chance to get one that is decent doesn't inspire confidence. But short of spending upwards of $500 for a Festool, which I will not do, I guess I have to pick one. And hope. In my book, that's pretty damn shitty and honestly not the way I want to spend my hard earned dollars. I may or may not buy one that's available during an upcoming Father's Day special.

C'est la vie.

Mike

[Mike Manning]

...

Do yourself a favor and forget that 1101, stick with one of the Dewalt,PC or Bosch units if decide to go the midsize 2.25HP route. There's a reason they outsell the Makita 2 to 1 or more. Go handle all three and pick which one fells best in your hand. Between Lowes and HomeDepot; you can handle all three as well as the makita and hitachi if you're lucky.
...

Dave,
I will definitely heed the advice to handle all the routers I'm considering in the stores and keep in mind the rest of your suggestions.

Thanks all!

Mike

[Michael Rector]

For what it’s worth I had a 1617 that eventually found a home in my router table. I personally (YMMV) hated using it as a plunge router for a bunch of reasons.

When I finally broke down and got the 1400 I found literally dozens of things I enjoyed doing with a plunge router confidently (as a router novice).

There are several tools in my shop that have been part of an incremental upgrade process that I would follow again given the same time/money constraints. The 1400 is probably the only tool I wish I had just bought right off the bat.

Again this is from a router novice, I’m sure once you’re proficient the tool doesn’t matter as much.

[Charlie Hinton]

I really like the Milwaukee routers.
Home Depot most likely has the best price online.
When I bought my router this came in a kit that included the plunge base and a couple accessories.
The link is to the least expensive option.
The plunge base is useful to me if I need to make a freehand cut but the way I work that doesn't happen very often.
My router pretty much lives in the router table and the fixed base never comes off the insert plate.
The height adjustment works particularly well for that.
Money was very important when I bought this and I have no regrets.
Some people truly need a very powerful router, in my work I have never made a cut that I thought stressed this router.
I mostly cut edge profiles and 1/4" dados for box making, I have cut dados in oak for a bookcase that were 1/2".
Money is not as tight as it used to be so if buying now I might get the 2 1/4hp EVS kit, that would allow me to use the large raised panel bits that have sat unused for 10 years.
Good luck with which ever one you choose.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-1-3-4-Max-HP-BodyGrip-Router-5615-20/202947891

[Mike Kees]

Mike,I am sorry if my post came across the wrong way. I was merely trying to point you to advice from actual users. I have glanced at Amazon reviews and even others on other websites enough that I notice people give reviews two days after receiving stuff. Myself I would way rather base decisions on advice from more reliable sources. I personally have mostly Porter Cable routers,7539,2-3, 690s and a Dewalt trim router. I have also owned a couple Makitas. They all work well. It is more of a personal thing like Ford-Chev or sometimes the work required favors certain routers more than others. Pick one of the kits in the 2,2.5h.p. range with several bases and work from there. I would recommend buying a machine with half inch collet. most of the kits have both 1/2 and 1/4 (I think). Another option may be to try out some of the routers you are interested in before you buy to help narrow it down. Mike.

[Warren Lake]

I worked at a place 30 plus years ago that had a milwaukee router. Red and rectangular handles it was an excellent router. Just something quality about it, not as big and heavy as my Porter cables but good enough for the work we did. You reminded me of that router not sure they have anything the same now.

I didnt look long enough at the Milwaukee you posted and thought it had round handles do see now looking better they are oblong which gives you more control than round handles do especially when you get into heavier routing. See they also have a D handle then something new where there is a handle built into the body of the router, id have to try that in the store to see the feel.

these are the type of handles I dont want in a router, the wood would be nice but round I dont like for heavier work.


386320

[Mike Manning]

Mike,I am sorry if my post came across the wrong way. I was merely trying to point you to advice from actual users. I have glanced at Amazon reviews and even others on other websites enough that I notice people give reviews two days after receiving stuff. Myself I would way rather base decisions on advice from more reliable sources. I personally have mostly Porter Cable routers,7539,2-3, 690s and a Dewalt trim router. I have also owned a couple Makitas. They all work well. It is more of a personal thing like Ford-Chev or sometimes the work required favors certain routers more than others. Pick one of the kits in the 2,2.5h.p. range with several bases and work from there. I would recommend buying a machine with half inch collet. most of the kits have both 1/2 and 1/4 (I think). Another option may be to try out some of the routers you are interested in before you buy to help narrow it down. Mike.

Mike,
You absolutely didn't come off in any wrong way. I will not get a router that doesn't have a 1/2" collet. At some point, I'll just have to go with the advice I've received here and my own perceptions after checking them out then just bite the bullet and hope that after a couple of light uses and a year of no use that they still work.

Mike

[rudy de haas]

hi:

I am getting to be quite knowledgeable about what not to do.. My first router experience is illustrative. I got it in late 2008 when the U.S. crash sent a lot of tools intended tor US distribution to Canada - about $229 (Canabucks, 0.75 USD) for a pair of Rigid routers in a box with several bits etc. Looked good, 1/2" collets, great reviews.. however: first it turns out that standard accessories fit Dewalt and Porter Cable for sure and some others depending on the accessory. Want a different base to cut dovetails with my rigid? too bad. Second, the bigger unit is a workhorse, the smaller one flamed out before I'd figured out how to use it - and the plunge sleeve for the bigger one jammed on so badly that I had to cut it off to rescue the router itself. So now I have a dewalt (and a 3HP shaper)...

[Curt Harms]

Something about the fixed base/plunge kits that no one has mentioned. I had a 690 with both bases. The fixed base and motor were great, the plunge base was well, suboptimal. Too hard to plunge and tended to stick. Lubrication didn't help. One could make the argument that the current Porter Cable 89x routers are not an improvement over the 69x but IMO the 89X plunge base is WAY better than the 690 plunge base IMO.

[lowell holmes]

I say for a first router, go to the BORG, pick some up, see what interests you, an get it. You can overthink it.

Later on, when you know what you want, do some serious shopping and get what you want.

Oh by the way, your router bits will add up the cost.

[Mike Manning]

Guys,
I still hadn't pulled the trigger on getting a router as I've not seen any decent sales. So when I saw this very good condition Porter-Cable 6902 today locally on CL at the right price I picked it up. I figure I can start learning how to use it while I keep my eye open for the right router combo for me. It didn't come with anything beyond the 1/2" collet in place. I had some credit with Amazon so the 1/4" collet and the collet wrench 2-pk is already on order. I bought the router and a like new 23-gauge PC pin nailer for $35. The guy threw in an old vintage hand-turned bench grinder for free. Cost: $35. The 1/4" collet and wrenches were less than $8 after my credits. Can't wait to give it a try! I'm gonna build a top for my planer mobile base and want to round the edges and corners with the router.

389625389626

Mike

[Jim Dwight]

Curt,

I think you got a GREAT deal. I have two PC690s. I've had them for more than a decade. The switch failed on one and the speed control on the other but considering the work they've done I do not think that is a surprise. Both still work. I have no problem with the plunge base and also have two fixed bases and a D handle. I've used the in a router table but they are a little small for that. But if you make an additional pass, I've used big panel raising bits successfully (with the speed turned down). They are work horse routers. Not everybody likes the "twist the motor" depth control but I like it. It's easy to fine adjust. Yours has the older type depth lock nut. One of mine has that. The switch may thus not be well protected against dust - that was the case with mine. But it worked fine for years.

Most of us end up with multiple routers but I think you will want to hold onto this one regardless. I would not argue it is the best router out there but it is a good, useful router. Easily worth several times $35.

Jim

[Mike Manning]

Curt,

I think you got a GREAT deal. I have two PC690s. I've had them for more than a decade. The switch failed on one and the speed control on the other but considering the work they've done I do not think that is a surprise. Both still work. I have no problem with the plunge base and also have two fixed bases and a D handle. I've used the in a router table but they are a little small for that. But if you make an additional pass, I've used big panel raising bits successfully (with the speed turned down). They are work horse routers. Not everybody likes the "twist the motor" depth control but I like it. It's easy to fine adjust. Yours has the older type depth lock nut. One of mine has that. The switch may thus not be well protected against dust - that was the case with mine. But it worked fine for years.

Most of us end up with multiple routers but I think you will want to hold onto this one regardless. I would not argue it is the best router out there but it is a good, useful router. Easily worth several times $35.

Jim

Thanks Jim!

[Carl Beckett]

Of all of them, I still like my old Porter-Cable 690, which has both a fixed, plunge, and D-handle base, which is the one I use the most for edge routing and such.


+1 on this. I like the D handle. And the PC can grow with you.

My second recommendation would be to just quit over thinking it, and buy a very basic router off craigslist (brand doesnt matter). My first router was an old craftsman that was given to me... it worked, and I made many great projects with it. Given you have little $ into it that way, you will learn what features you DO want then be more deliberate on your second router purchase. Sell the one you bought, if you are even a little bit patient you may even make a few $ on the CL purchase.

Just a thought...

[Carl Beckett]

doh! I just saw this after posting.

Perfect deal - go make something! :)

[Colin Tanner]

Something no one has mentioned yet, I don't think. For handheld routers, you don't want too tall, they can be tippy. That's one of the complaints about the Porter-Cable 89x fixed base; it's pretty tall. I have one with the grip vac handle - sort of like a D handle with dust collection that works better than it looks like it would. The grip vac handle helps with the tippy issue. The Porter Cable plunge base seems like the DeWalt 618 plunge base machined to fit the Porter Cable motor. Porter Cable routers had significant reliability issues with their variable speed modules in the 7529 & 8529 series, I haven't heard any complaints with the 89x series.
Today, for the first time in years I took out my PC 7529 plunge router for some shop and cabinet projects. It was dead. I f
didn’t Leave it that way, and it was properly stored. I bought that router in 2000 and was told it was perfect for use it as a base router for the router table I’m going to build this winter. I have a variety of projects lined 8p that run the gamut.
whaich router can serve double duty both in and out of the router table.

[Curt Harms]

Mike...consider this: online reviews typically skew to the negative for almost anything because folks are more inclined to complain about an issue than they are to praise something that's satisfying. That's the reality of how people act.

What Jim said. I was shopping PC motherboards. One I was considering had 50% 1 star ratings and bad reviews. The RMA rate was about 7%, nowhere near 50%, and it looks like a significant portion of those simply needed a BIOS upgrade. Yes I read reviews, especially if there are quite a few but they're not the sole criteria.

[Roger Feeley]

Here are some deal breaker features:
— electronic speed control
— soft start
— on the larger routers removable collets are pretty standard and are a must.
— availability of 8mm collets or adapter. I only have a few 8mm bits. Adapter is fine.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Isn’t it every woodworker’s dream to build a beautiful, accurate, and predetermined cut or flawless milling panel of wood that will become a piece of the art for a family home, or a bendable plastic, or making outstanding industrial carvings? Well, a best CNC router is here to make that dream a reality.Not really. My dream is to have one of those Jessica Alba look-alike shop elves that somebody here mentioned years ago. ;)

[Curt Harms]

I really appreciate all the recommendations and comments. If I had to pull the trigger today I'm leaning to the Blue - Makita RF1101Kit2. Got a few Makita cordless tools, a corded grinder as well and I really like them. There are 0% 1-star reviews and 2% 2-star reviews on Amazon for the kit with fixed base, plunge base, 1/4" & 1/2" collets and wrenches. It does not come with a dust collection adapter. I believe I read at least one review that said the adapter wasn't very good even if you did buy it as an option.

Can anyone comment on dust collection with this router or any other comments good or bad for this Makita router? Sounds like edge guide isn't the greatest. Anyone got experience it or with a better replacement? An edge guide would seem very useful for some of the things I want to do with a router.

Amazon link to the router package...https://www.amazon.com/Makita-RF1101KIT2-4-Horsepower-Variable-Speed-Plunge/dp/B0002HC4IM/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


One last thing, I'm going to wait and hope there may be a sale for Father's Day. Anyone recall if Makita discounts this router or their tools in general that might get me a discount on it then? Or maybe a retailer/reseller does?


Thanks!!!
Mike

I can't say about Makita's dust collection, never used a Makita router. I do have a P-C 89x and the dust collection on the plunge base works very well as long as the hole in the base is completely covered by the work. Edge work dust collection works but not as well IME. The P-C 89x plunge base is pretty much the same as the DeWalt 618 so I'd expect the same of DeWalt.