White Oak and Bourbon

[Rob Luter]

My bride and I did the Bourbon Trail a couple weeks ago. It was a good time. While on the tour at Makers Mark, the guide commented on the amount of White Oak casks that they (and other distillers) went through every year. I wondered if there were any issues with sustainability, as in my area QSWO has gotten stupid expensive and the story I always hear is that it's in short supply. The said their supply chain folks watch things pretty close, and based on good forestry practices over the last few decades, there are actually more White Oak trees available for harvest than there ever have been. Seems like lumber should cost less. Just saying.

[John K Jordan]

...based on good forestry practices over the last few decades, there are actually more White Oak trees available for harvest than there ever have been. Seems like lumber should cost less. Just saying.

I'm not sure the harvest-ready tree count is directly related to the finished lumber cost. Seems like you would have to include the chain from tree-cutting through sawing and drying, add in location/handling/transportation costs, and consider inflation in the wood industry over those decades.

For all I know "Michiana" is a tropical island in the Pacific but around here white oak logs are often worth less than nothing and rot on the ground if not cut for firewood. By the time boards are sawn and dried and planed the lumber is worth a lot. I have two stacks if logs from three big trees waiting for me to saw.

JKJ

[John Lanciani]

Another thing to consider is that they're not using FAS grade QSWO for bourbon barrels. Probably closer to pallet grade than anything considering the clear sizes they need.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Plus, they are not buying a few sticks here and there for projects. They know what they will need and can project out 5, 10, or 20 years and enter into long term contracts with suppliers to control their costs and avoid price fluctuations the rest of us have to live with.

[Earl McLain]

For all I know "Michiana" is a tropical island in the Pacific but around here white oak logs are often worth less than nothing and rot on the ground if not cut for firewood. By the time boards are sawn and dried and planed the lumber is worth a lot. I have two stacks if logs from three big trees waiting for me to saw.

JKJ

"Michiana" is generally North-central Indiana and Southwest Michigan area, and a combination of the two state names. Not as beautiful as East Tennessee, but still pretty doggoned nice!!

There are a few local mills that price white oak more reasonably than retail--but once quarter-sawn the price does rise. I got a few small pieces of quarter-sawn sycamore recently--very cool looking wood, and i'm hearing price is very good compared to QSWO...though I've not shopped it at all.
earl

[Bill Dufour]

California wine barrels are reused and refilled. I believe the whiskey makers use the barrel once and discard. Bulk wine makers just throw a handful of sawdust in the giant stainless steel tanks.
Bill D.

View of a small section of Gallo winery in Modesto, California, USA. Worlds largest.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/amenfoto/4053409652

[Matthew Curtis]

The barrels are not discarded. They are repurposed. Sold to all kinds of other distilleries. Wine to liquor to beer. They also sell the barrels for use in smoking foods.

[johnny means]

Eventually, they end up here.

https://www.winebarreldesigns.com/

[Peter Quinn]

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of white oak here in CT, price is pretty stable. Most harvesters us good forestry practices as they are in business for the long term. I had to read your post when I saw "White oak and bourbon"....two of my favorite things in one post!

[Bradley Gray]

There is a fairly new coopery in Jackson, Ohio. Used to be a Merrilat cabinet factory.

They have a pretty impressive yard full of 4' white oak blanks.

We also have the worlds largest oak flooring mill, near Portsmouth, Ohio

Lots of white and red oak in Southern Ohio/Kentucky.

[Phillip Gregory]

There is a cooperage mill that I used to drive by on my way to work at a previous job. They had giant stacks of white oak that looked to be about pallet grade stuff and stored it outside. You could smell the mill working about a half mile away and it made that part of town smell like my shop. Too bad that the bourbon wasn't made nearby. Lots of wine and beer, but no whiskey (technically bourbon is only made in Kentucky.)

[Brian Holcombe]

Scotch distillers buy ex-bourbon, sherry, port and other casks to impart a flavor on the whiskey. I’m not sure if bourbon distillers do the same but I assume so.

Im actually curious to know what causes the casks to wear, given that some scotch and cognac are aged, presumably in the same barrel, for up to a 1/2 century or longer.

[johnny means]

Scotch distillers buy ex-bourbon, sherry, port and other casks to impart a flavor on the whiskey. I’m not sure if bourbon distillers do the same but I assume so.

Im actually curious to know what causes the casks to wear, given that some scotch and cognac are aged, presumably in the same barrel, for up to a 1/2 century or longer.

The barrels don't wear so much as become inert. There are actually substances in the wood that become ingredients in the spirits. Like a scoop of coffee grounds, eventually there is no flavor left. Of course, that's a really simple explanation. There is probably enough science involved to earn a two year degree.

[Brian Holcombe]

Ah, thank you!

[Dan Jansen]

It’s my understanding that the spirits soak into the oak and out again as the weather changes. I believe the storage height also makes a difference with barrel higher up going through more of the back and forth due to altitude. This movement adds flavor by extracting goodness from the oak. Longer aged barrels go though more seasons, have more evaporation and in the end makes for some good sippin’ whiskey.

Price being subjective, I just purchased some air dried white oak for $1.50 BF here west of Michiana.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not believe it has to do with height as such. It is just that instead of being aged in a cave they are aged in a barn. the top of the barn undergoes wider temperature swings. hotter in summer, cooler in winter. Some California wineries are still having caves dug into hillsides. Operating costs are less then a temp controlled warehouse.
I belive Gallo has one thirty acre storage/bottling room at their Modesto winery. Wine flows by gravity from the fermenting tanks outside in the back of the property to the bottling lines underground. The thought is the less pumping of the finished wine the better. I think they age the wine in giant insulated stainless steel tanks outside with spray foam insulation. Looks like an oil refinery. The wine only ages in the bottle for a few days, as long as it takes to ship to the store.
Bil lD.

[Steve Kaminska]

The sugars in the wood are what gives whiskey most of its flavor and all of its color. It goes into the barrels as a clear liquid at about 60% A.B.V. and is diluted down to around 40% during bottling.

Much of what defines the various spirits is set by national and international law. Scotch can only be called scotch if it was distilled in Scotland, Canadian whiskey must use a certain percentage of rye, etc. Part of the legal definition of "bourbon" is the whiskey has to be aged for a minimum of three years in a new oak barrel. This obviously creates a lot of used barrels, especially with the bourbon "renaissance" that's been happening over the last decade.

As others have said, the used bourbon barrels are sold to other (non-bourbon) distillers, wine makers, etc. all over the world. Most of the scotch produced today is aged on American oak, as is most of the Irish whiskey. It's cheaper for them to import used barrels from Kentucky than it is to source their own.

A lot of the wine produced here in California is aged in used bourbon barrels also. They scrape and re-char the insides to get more fresh oak flavor.

I won't get into the craft beer brewers or the boutique distillers. But I did recently see a whiskey advertised as being aged in used craft beer barrels!?!?!

[Scott T Smith]

Lumber used for cooperage is typically some of the highest grades of quartersawn available. Wood will be rejected for stain, any type of insect damage, sapwood, pithwood, knots, etc. The more particular buyers tend to be wineries, whiskeys are mid level and the beer folks are the most forgiving.

Quartersawing is much more labor intensive than flat sawing and the amount of waste generated is around 30% of the total yield. Also, larger diameter logs are required (a 20" log will only produce a maximum of 7" - 8" wide boards w/o any pith or sapwood in them).