Are winding sticks nothing more than 2 identical pieces of wood?

[Adam Herd]

I want to make some quick and easy winding sticks. I watched part of Paul Sellers video on how to make them. He had a pair of winding sticks he said were made by a friend. They looked to be nothing more then 2 medium length pieces of wood that were identical. Can I just cut 2 say 18" long pieces of wood 1 1/2" wide by 3/4" thick? That would be a lot easier then making them triangular.

[sean contenti]

Yes. Fundamentally it's just two exactly equal sticks of wood. Gang up a couple scraps, and square up the ganged set. Personally I'd go longer than 18". Mine are 36", of beech with an inlaid blackwood strip on one stick.

Of course, sometimes people like to add embellishment, or find that there are additions that add value. In no particular order...

- a contrasting inlay on the "rear' stick can help highlight the observations
- a dot inlaid at the centre of the stick can help position the tool on the lumber
- a tapering (top to bottom) profile can add stability

[andy bessette]

It can help to make the sticks of contrasting shades, 1 light and 1 dark.

[bridger berdel]

They should be nice and straight. The tops of them should be parallel the bottom surface.

[Steve Kaminska]

My current "winding sticks" are a 3 foot length of 3/4" square oak from Home Depot that I cut in half. There is a bit of a bend in them, so I drew an arrow to define which faces are flat and parallel to each other, also at some point I blackened the ends of one stick with a sharpie for a bit of contrast. One of these days I will make proper winding sticks, but for now, these do just fine.

[Derek Cohen]

Winding sticks do not have to be wood. They can be anything that is parallel, even of different heights. I use a couple of cast iron levels. Sometimes two blades from a 12" combination square. I also have wooden winding sticks. Whatever is handy.

Usually two of these machinist levels (both 18" long) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/722b9d0b-5537-4d21-9f9a-c9592d20b9fe_zpslviuf4hg.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Winding sticks do not have to be wood. They can be anything that is parallel, even of different heights. I use a couple of cast iron levels. Sometimes two blades from a 12" combination square. I also have wooden winding sticks. Whatever is handy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek is correct. Two lengths of "L" extruded aluminum make very good winding sticks. Wood can be pretty and a fun project but other things work as well.

ken

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I use my levels instead. I have one 1200mm long and two smaller... I think 720 mm and 450mm... good enough for me with no additional stuff to arrange place in my small shop...

[Warren Mickley]

I have used the same mahogany winding sticks for more than 40 years. Genuine mahogany is a good choice because of long term stability. Walnut would make a good choice also. The sticks should be prepared with as much precision as you can muster. You will want to use the same sticks every time so that you can easily and quickly assess the situation.

I recommend sticks in the 18 inch range; you want pair that you can easily sweep up with one hand and distribute on the work surface. We use the sticks constantly during stock preparation so we can sneak up on a flat surface while removing a minimum of material. Longer sticks are considerably more clumsy and trouble to use. I once saw a guy using framing squares as winding sticks. It was pitiful how much trouble he went to for every use in order to avoid making a nice pair of sticks.

[Phil Mueller]

As others have said, any two straight pieces of something will work...angle iron, straight edges, levels, etc. If you get the notion one day to make them, the wooden angled ones aren’t too difficult. Just a nice straight stable piece of wood, cut on a diagonal on the table saw. A quick couple pieces of contrasting wood. They don’t have to be pretty...just relatively straight. IIRC, these were made on a rainy weekend afternoon.

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[Tom M King]

I just use whatever I have laying around that's straight and parallel. I find it easiest to look at the gap between the two by sighting a line over the near one, and under the far one, since that eliminates any matter about what they're made from.

Somewhere in this video (edited to add: about 2:45), I pull two pieces out of the scrap pile. They're leftovers from Cypress shingle roof purlin replacement pieces, made from treated decking boards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SED7B65cppM

[Mike Harkin]

My winding sticks are two pieces of aluminum angle, with the ends on one piece painted black.

[Prashun Patel]

"They looked to be nothing more then 2 medium length pieces of wood that were identical".

I wouldn't spend too much time making them. The hard part is learning how to read them and respond to them. Save the effort to make the Mercedes versions once you get comfortable with how they work.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

This may sound laughable, but I ended up buying the Veritas winding sticks. Why on earth would I buy something so simple to make? The answer is because I have an eye problem- I see things in a curve rather than a straight line. I depend on rulers and winding sticks to visualize straight edges and flats. The reason I chose to get the Veritas winding sticks is that they have etched lines across the top that for me really helps visualize the difference between the two sticks, which look curved to me, so I just make sure one matches up to the other one, and the lines really help. Also the contrast between black and aluminum is great.

[chris carter]

When I needed winding sticks early on I grabbed what was handy: a couple slats from some 1950s chairs we had to throw out. I'd kept all the slats. They were dead straight, and since they were old wood, there would be no surprise movements. So I used them, and I still use them. I just put tape on the edge of one of them so I can see the contrast easily. Super ghetto, just as effective as anything else.

[Tom M King]

This is the view I use. You can raise or lower your eyes to close the gap seen between the two-over the near one, to under the far one. We move our "shop" every year or two, to where we are working, and winding sticks are not something I bother to keep up with to move.

https://www.woodtalkonline.com/uploads/monthly_2016_07/CIMG1863.JPG.78b9902b5f52d3d172e4c1f238c86f42.JPG

[michael langman]

I made my winding sticks out of some used clam shell molding. The wood grain was very straight and not much work to complete.

[Roger Nair]

I use common framing squares with the 22 1/2 scale resting on the work piece and the 16 inch arm reliably rights the gauging scales. In the past I have used electricians colored tape at the edges to provide contrast.

[Randy Chesnut]

Two pieces of 1" aluminium box stock, one sprayed white, the other black. Durable, moisture-proof, and lightweight. Durable is good, as I take them with me when I am wood shopping since any wind at the source will be much worse when in the shop and dried.

[Bill Houghton]

We've answered the original question, yes: two sticks. They do need to be the same width over their length, straight, and thick enough not to fall over; but nothing otherwise is required.

My winding sticks are two junky aluminum levels found at yard sales, $1 each. I knocked out the vials, since I couldn't trust them as levels, but the extrusions are straight and parallel (same width over their length). Fast, stable, cheap.

[bridger berdel]

One other thing; if they are different lengths place the longer one at the far end of the board. It helps compensate for perspective.

[Brian Holcombe]

Winding sticks are the most important checking tool because they help you to see twist. I use them for checking boards along with assemblies to be glued like doors or frames. I use them on nearly everything I build, and so I prefer them to be very accurate. For that reason I check them against a known flat surface, a granite checking plate.

Warren’s advice is top notch and I used his advice when I made my current sticks a few years ago and stopped using metal straight edges.

Local to me is a joiner whose work I greatly admire, it was no shock to me when he provided that a tool he used extensively is a nice pair of winding sticks that dovetail together when not in use. His are vertical grain Douglas fir and have a beveled too edge.

Mine are QS bubinga with ebony inserts for contrast.

[Zach Dillinger]

One tip: if you make the front stick taller than the back stick, you don't have to stoop down as far when using them.

[Marc Jeske]

Everything has been covered here except one issue - Length.

The longest as is practical for the specific use, the easier to read.. meaning the un parralleness will be showing better.

Just like laying out a building foundation corner, you don't use 3,4, and 5 INCHES, but create the longest legs you can to measure from.

So, just like that gives better accuracy, the longer your wind sticks, the easier to perceive deviations

Most of you are saying"Uhhh, we knew that" but I can guarantee a few did not.

Checking a 1" board edge, sticks might be 1 or 2' (IMHO).

In checking a large assembly workbench for flatness, I use two 6' AL straight edges.

Marc

[Robert Engel]

Adam,

I think the purpose of the angular shape is for sighting purposes, ie. discerning the front edge from the back.

The issue with "any old wood" will be movement. Quarter sawn stable wood like oak is a good choice.

I found it helps to inlay contrasting wood at the ends of the boards and the rear board has a black colored inlay going all the way across.

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I do think its a good idea to have a couple different lengths, or get used to reading more error than you think on narrower boards.

For larger areas like when I built my large workbench, I used two 4' levels.

[Marc Jeske]

Also, another thing to consider is that when sighting across the sticks, lighting direction AND background color (like White, opposed to dark) will assist clearer discernment.

The background color comment assists like the contrasting edge color idea mentioned above.

For example checking a 8' long workbench - Something like - A white melamine 4x8 sheet or similar standing against far end of bench, a black stick on far end of bench, a light colored stick nearest you, something like that.. and light shooting toward background will be easiest to read.

Like in the large scale example of a long bench above - Don't get too close with yer face - keep your eyes at LEAST like 4' + from the closest wind stick (so the far end of 8' bench is no closer than 12' from your eyes)to get a sufficient widish angle picture.. scan left to right repeatedly to get a mental picture of parallelism. :o

Tried to explain, hope made sense.. you know what I mean, not that complex.

I overexplain.

And you don't need a granite surface plate, just decent straight edged parallel edge material.

Unless you're building it for NASA to go to Mars anyway.

I get OCD about accuracy, was laying bottom foundation course of full rough 2"x8 horizontal boards on a retaining wall build today 90 ft long using an old but loved Nikon Builders level ("transit")..can guarantee +- 1/8" MAX deviation at WORST.Got all the crowns "stringline"straight within that spec.

I got to sit at the level w notepad and my Tea, helper at wall doing the bullwork, shimming, etc.
Marc

[Noah Magnuson]

+1 on using aluminum angle. I have a few pieces of various lengths. It is also good for things like dovetail markers etc. and cuts nicely with a power miter saw for a machined finish. Al flatbar is cheap and very durable for straightedges too.

[Jeff L Jump]

My winding sticks are maple and black walnut. Very good contrast with these two species. IMO it helps to clearly mark the centerline of both winding sticks, making it much easier to balance them on a board. I made these up a few years ago, something quick for the moment because I needed to check my work for twist. I've been using them ever since when I'm hand planing stock. I did eventually apply a shellac finish on both just to protect the wood from handling and to help control moisture. Both sticks seem to be staying true. If and when I ever get to making a better pair I plan to make the bases heavier and thicker so they stand better on the surface being checked.

[andy bessette]

Aluminum angle is often bowed. Better to use a balanced shape.

[Marc Jeske]

"Aluminum angle is often bowed. Better to use a balanced shape."

Possible, very true.

It's not sold to be used as a straightedge, so ya gotta check it w a known.

But if it is straight, it can be a great Winder.

Stands up nice, and if straight when bought, and YOU alone handle it, NO one else is allowed to touch, should be good till you pass.

Whatever you use, just make sure it is reliably straight.

Marc

[Timothy MacMurtrie]

I own the same ones as you and they are great!!! I kept loosing my wooden ones😬 but someday I’ll make another pair and place them on the wall lol

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Honestly I don't think you'll be satisfied unless you buy two 72" Starrett straight edges. Can never be too precise, after all.

[Noah Magnuson]

Aluminum angle is often bowed. Better to use a balanced shape.
I'm not sure what you are basing that on, and it is a bit of an extreme exaggeration -- maybe 'can occasionally be bowed' would be more appropriate. I have used quite a bit of extruded aluminum over the years in fabrication. 1" x 1/8" angle makes great winding sticks. If a long thin stick gets twisted or bowed, then yes, it will stay that way, but extruded aluminum angle starts out very straight and as long as you take the time to check if it is straight to begin with, it will stay that way at the lengths winding sticks are made. Of course, very long pieces can bow, but who is using an 8' winding stick out of 1/2" angle?

[andy bessette]

NM--angle is an exceedingly poor choice for a straightedge because of its unbalanced form. It bends very easily in more than one plane. Most other forms are superior: solid or tubular rectangle or square, I-beam, etc.

[Noah Magnuson]

NM--angle is an exceedingly poor choice for a straightedge because of its unbalanced form. It bends very easily in more than one plane. Most other forms are superior: solid or tubular rectangle or square, I-beam, etc.
"Exceedingly poor..." Again, gross exaggeration. I am a mechanical engineer. These are winding sticks.

1/8" wall doesn't bend "very easily" period. Yes, tubular, I-beam etc. is stronger, but angle is perfectly sufficient, not exceedingly poor, and gives a single narrow upper viewing surface to line up whether you use it on it's side or like a tent. This is a thread about the simplicity of what you can use for winding sticks...

[Marc Jeske]

Time for a Group Hug !

Marc

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[Noah Magnuson]

I hear ya :)

[Warren Mickley]

I watched Tom King's video a second time. He was in the "whatever is lying around" camp. He gets a big stick from under the bench, then leans down again and gets another stick. He puts them at the ends of the board, but the one at the far end does not sit flat, it rocks. In fact you can see a gap on the left side because the hump tilts it to the right. He works the board some, but still has not touched the far end hump when he uses the winding sticks for the second and last time. He continues to work with the jack plane and eventually takes out the hump at the far end, but never again checks for wind, never gets a good reading. He then planes with a jointer plane and smoother plane and finishes without ever using a straight edge along the length.

Tom is making shutters; probably he knows from experience that wind is not very important. If he were making parts for a carcass and a paneled door to fit, this kind of clumsiness would make trouble. In such a case, care with winding sticks and straight edge pays dividends later when things have to fit together. And you want winding sticks that are a lot easier to pick up with one hand and place on the board, because for careful work they are used a lot more often. And for ease of sighting it is helpful to be looking at the same pair over and over.

In a pinch you can use broom sticks or pipes or scrap. But what is best is a matching pair of carefully prepared sticks. Inlays and exotic woods are not necessary and probably not historic, though they might help an older guy starting out.

[Marc Jeske]

My troubles will be over when Woodpecker's offers a one time set of sticks.

Marc :p

[Marc Jeske]

OMG !!!

They DO... Well, DID anyway !

And really, not too bad pricing comparatively.

Notice the nice contrasting sighting line.

https://www.woodpeck.com/ottwindingsticks.html

[Tom M King]

Warren is exactly right. That video was making shutter panels, that would have raised panels on both sides (it's a museum house, open only rarely, and the shutters are kept closed more than they are opened). They did not need to be perfect, like you would want for a piece of furniture, there was no need to worry about the edges that would have the panel bevel cut away later,and in fact, being made to more closely replicate what they would have been like for the 1850 house that they went on, were better off not so perfect.

Sometimes "clumsy" is good enough for the job. Smoothing plane texture actually matches other surfaces in that house, and is not as coarse as it looks in the harsh sidelighting- 4 thou shavings.

If you're interested, better pictures can be seen on the "Shutters" page of my website, but I've been too busy to work on the site in years, and it's accumulated a lot of formatting errors, so don't know if it will be even presentable on your computer. You should be able to click on any picture there, and get a larger, clearer picture though. www.HistoricHousePreservation.com (http://www.HistoricHousePreservation.com)

[Bill Houghton]

OMG !!!

They DO... Well, DID anyway !

And really, not too bad pricing comparatively.

Notice the nice contrasting sighting line.

https://www.woodpeck.com/ottwindingsticks.html
Or Lee Valley's, at a more affordable price: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=53276&cat=1,230,41182

[andy bessette]

Notice that neither Woodpecker nor Lee Valley chose extruded angles as the basis for their winding sticks. :)