Spiral Cutterhead for Jointer or Planer, pick one

[Jared Hendrix]

I recently picked up a new in box Grizzly G0586 8" jointer as well as a new Dewalt 735 planer for $600 for both tools. I have enough money to buy one spiral cutterhead, and i need to choose between the jointer and planer. It will likely be another year before I buy one for the tool i dont buy one for. Both cutterheads are about the same price.

My thoughts are that if i buy the spiral head for just one tool, I can simply do a final pass on the machine with the spiral head to make a smooth, tear-out free board. The biggest difference in my mind is the width, 13" vs 8". The most tear-out prone wood i use in QS African Mahogany, curly maple, and occasionally some walnut boards with a little figure in them. I actually haven't even tried any of these on either machine yet, so i dont know at this point how bad the tear-out would be.

What are y'alls thoughts?

[Patrick Irish]

I'd go with the planer. You can always make sleds etc for it to joint larger pieces. Jointer is typically for only to sides of a board where the planer can be used for all 4.

[Nick Decker]

Do you have a drum sander? If not, I'd consider putting the spiral head money toward that tool.

[Brian Nguyen]

Do you have a drum sander? If not, I'd consider putting the spiral head money toward that tool.

It took me waaaaay too long to realize that there's no such thing as a spiral-head drum sander lol

[Paul F Franklin]

I'd be inclined to do the planer. For one thing, I tend to change the planer knives about 3 times more often than jointer knives. Carbide would stay sharper longer. And if it is the insert type head, you can just rotate them extending life even more.
Also, my planer is way noisier when cutting than my jointer, at least when taking heavier cuts, so the quieter cutting that comes with the spiral head would be welcome there too.

And congrats on the drive by gloat...$600 for both of those new is a really nice deal!

[Brian Holcombe]

Sharp knives and ability to read grain direction work magic. Save your money.

[Rod Sheridan]

It took me waaaaay too long to realize that there's no such thing as a spiral-head drum sander lol

Not true Brian, last month I was out on a service call for a 53" double belt sander with a helical carbide planer head on the infeed side.........Rod.

[Mike Cutler]

Given those options, I would put it on the planer.
You can always do both sides on planer and have the sides parallel. Not so much on the jointer.

[Steve Demuth]

I would definitely go with the planer. Love the helical head on my planer, and at least the way I work, I make a lot more planing cuts than jointing cuts, so the efficiency, tear-out resistance and long-lived blades are really going to pay off more there.

[Patrick Kane]

I dont know how recently you picked up these machines, but have you used them much? Experiencing significant tearout currently? I have a problem with putting a byrd in the dewalt. Believe me, the 735 is a great planer for the money. I had one for a few years and ran a ton of wood through it, but I dont think its worthy of a $400+ cutterblock upgrade. Ill also add i THINK my old 735 produced a better finish than my PM209-hh does. The byrd on my powermatic will rough up reversing grain like walnut crotch no matter which way you feed it. Ironically, i get less tearout on crotch figure if i feed it against the grain with the byrd. In my opinion/experience, sharp straight knives and a little knowledge will provide the best surface. The carbide insert heads are convenient because you can run them forever(sharpening long steel knives does add up over time), the chip compaction is better for your DC, and they minimize horrific tearout. Horrific meaning the tearout thats 1/16-1/8" deep. With freshly rotated inserts(i just did this for the first time a month or two ago), i still get minor tearout on really squirrely grain. I dont think byrd heads are worth all the hype they sometimes receive. They have a lot of benefits, but i dont know if surface finish is actually one of them. The thing with your dewalt is you can take a much lighter cut than i can with serrated steel rollers, and do so at a slower feed rate too. Sharp knives, slow feed rate, and a shallow depth of cut with rubber rollers should minimize most tearout.

I do concur that the absolute best anti-tearout machine is a sander.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I would go with neither as well and put the money towards a drum sander.

[David Kumm]

A Byrd head needs more power so be sure your planer has enough to handle the cuts you plan to take. Dave

[glenn bradley]

As Brian H said, if you are running basic stock, reading the grain and keeping sharp knives in the machine will serve you well. The math on insert heads being less expensive over time is well documented but, we don't all have the money to lay down initially to get that savings.

If you are running a lot of figured stock, feed direction becomes a challenge and the spiral heads are your solution. The idea of using the spiral head on one machine to fix the tear out from another will meet with variable success. If the tear out is 3/32" deep and you can only spare another 1/16" of material, you have to set that board aside for some thinner requirement.

I faced the same decision years ago. I had turned usable figured boards into thin stock due to tear out enough to have a spiral head on my "gotta-have" list of requirements. I opted for a planer with a spiral head and a planer sled to tide me over till I saved my pennies for a spiral headed jointer. This allowed me to get the immediate benefit of the insert head for face jointing and planing.

It is a little extra effort but, at the time I had work to do. I didn't want to repeat a previous poor judgement call. I had been impatient which ended up costing me more money to replace a tool that was not really appropriate for me. Figure out how long it will take you to save for a spiral head jointer and decide if you can stand a planer sled for that long. Your investment in patience will pay dividends for decades.

[Prashun Patel]

I agree with Brian H. I owned a 735 for 7 years and tear out was not a problem. I had to change knives once. It's not that big a deal.

If you HAD to buy one, then I'd do the planer because it's wider and in my method of work, I usually start with the jointer and finish with the planer.

[Robert Engel]

General agreement with what Brian but I think there is another rationale for a spiral head.

Other than a much nicer surface, the machine is also MUCH quieter, if that matters for you.

After using it for >3 yrs I realized money saved on sharpening is the main advantage. In this time I would have had at least 6 sharpenings and/or new blades vs. 1 rotation on the cutters with the spiral head. IOW I am getting >2 yrs use from the cutters (X 4 so 8 years worth of sharpening. Admittedly I get the "goodies" before rotating :-)

Then there is the convenience of not having a spare set of blades on hand + set up in the middle of a project + forgetting to get the first one sharpened and then having NO blades ready & wait 1 week means buying a new set of blades.......you get the picture.

I would have done the same thing for my planer but the cost return vs. sharpening for 20" head is not justifiable.

Now to answer your question: Long ago I discarded the idea that a jointer or planer should be a surfacing machine, ie. the board is basically finished coming out of the machine. However, that doesn't mean I don't set blades to .002" tolerance.

IMO a jointer and planer should be viewed as milling machines, not surfacing machines. Leave room (1/64") for surface prep (hand planing/scraping/sanding).

In summary, I think cost benefit rather than surface quality should be the basis of your decision to buy a spiral head.

[Jared Hendrix]

Thanks for the input! Y''all made some good points i had'nt though of.

The drum sander would definitely be the best option for eliminating any tear-out, however, it's down the list of tools i still need for my shop, I still need a good table saw and a band saw.
Now that i've thought on it more, i think i will put the money towards a newer table saw with a cast iron top, right now i'm using an old porter cable saw and its awful, the blade isn't square to the miter slots and the fence is terrible.

When i do decide to get the spiral head, i think i'll get it for the planer. In the short time i've had the dewalt planer, i've had the blades get nicks in them from a knot or something, and there's no way to sharpen them. I'd like to think that the spiral head will make a difference on the noise of the dewalt, but man, that thing is loud even if it's not running a board through...

[Rod Sheridan]

I can't justify a spiral head for cost, as my J/P uses a cartridge knife system. It would take me about 14 years to break even.

I could justify it for noise reduction, and if I were buying the machine again I would approach it that way.

The chips are also more compact so they don't fill up the extractor as fast, of course then the bag would be heavier to carry up the stairs:D

regards, Rod.

[Alex Tonin]

As others have said, a spiral head will require more horsepower from the motor (because a cutting edge is in near constant contact with the wood). Be sure your machine can handle that before you make the switch.

[Bill Adamsen]

I would agree with using the money for something else ... wood? With dust collection at full full tilt my straight knife jointer is very loud, and that would likely be solved by a spiral head of some sort. However I like the Tersa knives so I would be unlikely to switch it out.

[Peter Quinn]

I would do the jointer and save for a replacement planner. In fact I did exactly that. Not worth a Byrd head on that machine. Had one for a few years, cut quality was excellent with sharp knives, but the noise is ferocious, and the depth of cut is is a real limitation. Spiral heads take more power and that machine barely has enough as delivered. Its great being able to joint and flatten boards irrespective of grain direction. You can get better steel than the stock knives for better edge retention, hard knots are a potential problem for any planer knife so proceed with caution. I use my jointer for tapers on table legs where I cant easily drum sand or plane out damage, so the spiral head is a real plus there.

[Cary Falk]

I say the jointer and save for a new planer or sander. I can't justify a spiral head in a lunchbox planer. The blades are indexed and easy enough to change. They are screamers so I couldn't wait to get rid of mine.

[Derek Cohen]

Just a question - how certain are you that a spiral head requires more power than straight knives? This is not the information I have. In fact it is the reverse of what I have been told.

I have a Hammer A3-31 combination machine with 4 hp. It was designed to run on 20 amp with the straight blades, but comfortably start and runs on 15 amps with the spiral blades.

Logic says that there is more contact (and effort behind) a long, straight blade striking a surface, than several tiny, skewed blades doing so individually but in succession.

In support of spiral blades, the Hammer is quiet enough to have a conversation when it is running, and there is certainly a great deal of comfort in the fact that each blade has 4 faces. The carbide edges last a long time, and leave a super surface. Even so, I finish with hand planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Engel]

Just a question - how certain are you that a spiral head requires more power than straight knives? This is not the information I have. In fact it is the reverse of what I have been told.

I have a Hammer A3-31 combination machine with 4 hp. It was designed to run on 20 amp with the straight blades, but comfortably start and runs on 15 amps with the spiral blades.

Logic says that there is more contact (and effort behind) a long, straight blade striking a surface, than several tiny, skewed blades doing so individually but in succession.

In support of spiral blades, the Hammer is quiet enough to have a conversation when it is running, and there is certainly a great deal of comfort in the fact that each blade has 4 faces. The carbide edges last a long time, and leave a super surface. Even so, I finish with hand planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You beat me to it, Derek :)

[Andrew Hughes]

The reason a Bryd head take more power then a straight knifes is the 30 degree face bevel on the inserts. The inserts are scraping the wood at a angle and stays in the cut longer.
If I add a face bevel to my knives I get the same feed pressure problems.
This is why much more pressure is needed to keep wood flat on the tables.
I can take a full 1/16 inch pass on 12 wide hickory with out my shoes slipping on the floor. Don't try this with a HH without some grip tape on the floor or brand spanking new inserts.

[David Kumm]

Felder developed their silent head with fewer inserts and a different design to use less power than a Byrd head. I would say it is a better choice for a low hp machine. I have a Byrd on my Delta DC33 and the 2 hp machine is definately a light pass finish planer. I'm in the camp of save up for a used 13-15" induction motor planer and swap heads Noise level of the head on a lunchbox with a screaming motor is kind of irrelevent. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Just a question - how certain are you that a spiral head requires more power than straight knives? This is not the information I have. In fact it is the reverse of what I have been told.

I have a Hammer A3-31 combination machine with 4 hp. It was designed to run on 20 amp with the straight blades, but comfortably start and runs on 15 amps with the spiral blades.

Logic says that there is more contact (and effort behind) a long, straight blade striking a surface, than several tiny, skewed blades doing so individually but in succession.

In support of spiral blades, the Hammer is quiet enough to have a conversation when it is running, and there is certainly a great deal of comfort in the fact that each blade has 4 faces. The carbide edges last a long time, and leave a super surface. Even so, I finish with hand planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi, the Silent Power head is a proprietary design by Felder, it does use less power than straight knives.

That isn't true of other common spiral heads. The Felder head is also the only MAN rated available for common jointers.

The A3-31 with straight knives runs fine on a 15 ampere circuit as well, mines been running since 2007...........Rod.

[Neil Gaskin]

My initial impression is to go with the planer but I hesitate because of the machine you have. There is nothing wrong with it, we used one for a while but eventually ended up buying a larger floor model. The dewalt 735 is a good machine for the cost but spending more on that machine then what it cost seems a stretch. You'll have the joiner long after the planer has been replaced.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

This is why it's a no brainer to have a spiral head on a combo J/P.

[glenn bradley]

The "spiral head needs more power" conversation seems to have a lot of variables. Doesn't sound like it is a "one or the other" situation. The German head on my 8" jointer is not a shear cut and I get very little resistance during a cut with a taichi 3HP motor. When I do feel significant resistance or get trails on the cut surface it is generally time to rotate.

[Brian Holcombe]

This is why it's a no brainer to have a spiral head on a combo J/P.

I have a Tersa head on mine and it has greatly exceeded my expectations.