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Bill Dufour
05-13-2018, 1:44 AM
Ford has announced they will stop making cars by 2020 except for the mustang. Only trucks from 2020 on. They will not waste money developing cars with better gas mileage. I would think the mustang will have to be dropped in 5-10 years as engine and transmission options disappear.
Of course the cost of gas will shoot up in a few years and Ford will have nothing with good mileage to sell. Then they will ask for a government handout.
I blame the 25% chicken tax on imported trucks, SUVs and vans.
Bill D.

Matt Day
05-13-2018, 4:35 AM
Ford will ď...start rolling out two new light truck models: the Ranger pickup and the Bronco SUV ó both reviving nameplates that Ford had dropped in years past. All told, the automaker plans to add five new SUVs over the next two years, as well as the midsize Ranger pickup.ď -NBC News

And the Focus will be available to the US market but made in China.

Quite a change up at Ford! Thx for the heads up.

Nathan Johnson
05-13-2018, 9:02 AM
They are discontinuing cars because no one is buying them. It's not just going to be trucks and mustangs. They will have a number of small SUVs and crossovers in place to meet mileage requirements, and they're in the big push for electric.

OP, your post is intentionally misleading.

Jim Becker
05-13-2018, 10:03 AM
This is Ford's plan to address what the marketplace is primarily demanding...SUVs and trucks. SUVs have become the vehicle of choice for a large percentage of drivers, even in smaller sizes. Other manufacturers have also made changes or are contemplating them. FCA already did away from some passenger vehicles and GM is looking to scale back on some models that just are not selling. And there will still be plenty of "more traditional" passenger vehicles on the road and available in showrooms from the many manufacturers for those who prefer them.

lowell holmes
05-13-2018, 10:49 AM
I love my F150.:)

Dave Lehnert
05-13-2018, 11:09 AM
crossovers are basically cars anyway.
My Chevy Equinox on the highway in ECO mode gets 38MPG.

Matt Meiser
05-13-2018, 11:52 AM
Do you have a legitimate source on your Mustang claim? Iíve not seen that, strange since the factory that builds them is nearby.

The new Ecosport isnít much bigger than a Focus. I was behind one the other day at a light and it was definitely smaller than my Fusion. Thereís also a small crossover coming.

Michael Weber
05-13-2018, 12:08 PM
I had read that a while back. Thought it was short sighted of them. I'll just stop at that least my opinion induce controversy.

Dave Lehnert
05-13-2018, 1:11 PM
Do you have a legitimate source on your Mustang claim? I’ve not seen that, strange since the factory that builds them is nearby.


https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256

Matt Meiser
05-13-2018, 1:28 PM
I donít see anything in that article about the Mustang going away in 5-10 years.

Jim Becker
05-13-2018, 1:59 PM
Like many vehicles that are focused on the performance market, the Mustang will evolve relative to drive train just like every other vehicle, and most likely will adopt turbo technology along with smaller displacement engine(s), providing for the dual purpose of increased fuel economy without sacrificing overall performance. And don't count out electrification, either...some of the fastest vehicles in the world are 100% electric and even hybrids have a big edge "off the line" because of the massive torque that electric motors have available from a standing start. Ford, GM and FCA all put a lot of effort into reintroducing their classic muscle cars in recent years with strong emphasis on historical style combined with modern underpinnings and I doubt any of them will abandon these vehicles unless the market for them drops significantly. How they "sound" might change over time, however. :)

Bob Turkovich
05-13-2018, 2:13 PM
... How they "sound" might change over time, however. :)

You may be surprised how relatively easy it is for the manufacturers to augment both the intake and exhaust note of the vehicle. Some have been doing it in production since the mid 2000's.

Stan Calow
05-13-2018, 2:16 PM
We looked at Mustangs last year. I can't remember which - engine or transmission - but one of those was already made in China.

I think the market for the new versions of the vintage muscle cars will drop off as the baby boomers stop buying nostalgic vehicles. They're not that comfortable or practical.

I believe Toyota said they were planning to be 100% electric by 2025. Its the world market (China, India) that's driving most of these decisions, not the US. Ford's been making their profits overseas for many years.

Bill Jobe
05-13-2018, 3:16 PM
I don't understand why SUVs are so poor on milage.
I have a 2003 Sable with a 3.0, a fairly big car, that gets 30mpg on the highway. Averages over 20 as I use it. Maybe it is just a fluke.
If Ford wants to move Rangers they are going to have to make them more like trucks than the current configuration, in my opinion. Far too expensive for the average buyer.
I love my Ranger, but those new ones ain't a Ranger, if you know what I mean.
Have you looked at the prices?

Frederick Skelly
05-13-2018, 3:33 PM
Ford's been making their profits overseas for many years.

I read a history of the Company that claimed European sales were all that kept them afloat in the late 70s and early 80s, when things were so tough in that industry.

George Bokros
05-13-2018, 3:56 PM
Do you have a legitimate source on your Mustang claim? I’ve not seen that, strange since the factory that builds them is nearby.

The new Ecosport isn’t much bigger than a Focus. I was behind one the other day at a light and it was definitely smaller than my Fusion. There’s also a small crossover coming.

Current plan is to not discontinue the Mustang.

Jim Becker
05-13-2018, 4:05 PM
You may be surprised how relatively easy it is for the manufacturers to augment both the intake and exhaust note of the vehicle. Some have been doing it in production since the mid 2000's.
I'm not surprised at all since that's often a topic at another forum I help moderate in the Jeep word. But despite intake and exhaust modifications, the smaller, turbo engines still sound a bit different than a big-block from back in the day. :)

George Bokros
05-13-2018, 4:18 PM
We looked at Mustangs last year. I can't remember which - engine or transmission - but one of those was already made in China.

Engine or trans could be made in China but the car is assembled at Flat Rock MI. It may be the 4 cylinder engine.

Bob Turkovich
05-13-2018, 6:58 PM
I'm not surprised at all since that's often a topic at another forum I help moderate in the Jeep word. But despite intake and exhaust modifications, the smaller, turbo engines still sound a bit different than a big-block from back in the day. :)

There are four major contributors to the sound note of an accelerating vehicle: intake, exhaust, combustion and mechanical. Intake and exhaust can be tuned within those system components (but with potential side effects in performance, emissions and FE). The other two: not so much.

In the mid 2000's, Honda ran into a problem with sales in the "Street Racer" market in SoCal. They had difficulty maintaining market share because potential customers considered them slower than the competition. Side by side comparisons showed their acceleration curves were comparable. They were, however, quieter.

Honda quietly released an underhood speaker system for that market that augmented the noise more to the customers liking (adding about $3000 to the manufacturing cost of the vehicle - at least that's what their supplier quoted the company I was working for) . As a result, their market share increased back in line with expectations.

The other OEM's took note and have since implemented similar techniques elsewhere. It's become a rapidly growing business with multiple suppliers involved.

Either Mustang or Camaro has a "dial-a-note" option on some of their packages which actuated a valve in the exhaust. (I have had a ride in both recently - can't remember which one had it :o).

Art Mann
05-13-2018, 8:03 PM
Almost all SUVs made these days are of unibody construction and are adapted from car platforms anyway. It sounds to me like they are saying that they are only going to make cars that are SUV shaped. There really is no distinction other than that.

Bruce Wrenn
05-13-2018, 9:33 PM
It's going to hard to make the exhaust from a turbo four cylinder sound like a Mustang V-8. At work, even though we are a half mile from stop light, you can tell when it's a Mustang coming off the line.

Bill Dufour
05-13-2018, 9:48 PM
Honda quietly released an underhood speaker system for that market that augmented the noise more to the customers liking (adding about $3000 to the manufacturing cost of the vehicle - at least that's what their supplier quoted the company I was working for) . As a result, their market share increased back in line with expectations.

Are you saying Honda added external speakers and plays sound loops of boy racer engine noise? Model railroading was just getting into this when I got out.
Could be an option for a Tesla.
Bill D

Bob Turkovich
05-13-2018, 10:07 PM
It's going to hard to make the exhaust from a turbo four cylinder sound like a Mustang V-8. At work, even though we are a half mile from stop light, you can tell when it's a Mustang coming off the line.

Technology already exists to do that. (I experienced that in a prototype Mustang a few years ago...) The issue is if that you're going to market both Powertrains, why make them sound alike?


Honda quietly released an underhood speaker system for that market that augmented the noise more to the customers liking (adding about $3000 to the manufacturing cost of the vehicle - at least that's what their supplier quoted the company I was working for) . As a result, their market share increased back in line with expectations.

Are you saying Honda added external speakers and plays sound loops of boy racer engine noise? Model railroading was just getting into this when I got out.
Could be an option for a Tesla.
Bill D

In Honda's case it was to accent the intake note (which is a primary contributor while accelerating) without redesigning the entire induction system and going thru retooling/recertification.

As far as electric cars are concerned, I believe speaker systems are already being used so cars can't catch pedestrians by surprise. (I may be mistaken but it's either a Federal requirement - or about to be one - for electric vehicles in urban areas.)

Curt Harms
05-14-2018, 7:12 AM
Ford will “...start rolling out two new light truck models: the Ranger pickup and the Bronco SUV — both reviving nameplates that Ford had dropped in years past. All told, the automaker plans to add five new SUVs over the next two years, as well as the midsize Ranger pickup.“ -NBC News

And the Focus will be available to the US market but made in China.

Quite a change up at Ford! Thx for the heads up.

I don't know if it'll be the same vehicle but the Ranger has been available overseas for some time, including a diesel version. I read that Ford felt the Ranger sales in the U.S. were coming at the expense of much more lucrative F150 sales so that version of the Ranger never made it to U.S. shores.

lowell holmes
05-14-2018, 8:56 AM
Driving habits change. My daughter and family live 10 minutes away from our house. There are four vehicles between the
two households. None of them are sedans. There are three SUV's and one pickup truck. I'm sure the automobile makers
make what will sell.

Jim Becker
05-14-2018, 8:56 AM
I don't know if it'll be the same vehicle but the Ranger has been available overseas for some time, including a diesel version. I read that Ford felt the Ranger sales in the U.S. were coming at the expense of much more lucrative F150 sales so that version of the Ranger never made it to U.S. shores.

The new North American Ranger pick-em-up truck does have some roots in the vehicle that's been available elsewhere in the world, but they've also done a bit of work above that, too. GM did the same for their mid-sized pickups that were re-introduced to the market not so long ago.

Stan Calow
05-14-2018, 10:02 AM
I went to look for a new Ranger in 2013, and found out Ford was not making them anymore. I read that they were expecting to up-sell Ranger buyers to the newly redesigned F150 with the new ECO-boost engine that would give better mileage than the Ranger. I can't fit a F150 in my garage, and didnt want a full-size anyway, so no sale. Happy with my Honda, which had a higher percentage of US parts than Chevy or Dodge. Oh, and not fooled when they say "North American".

Al Launier
05-14-2018, 10:46 AM
I hadn't heard of this until this thread, yet it had to come. I say this because the SUV line of vehicles offers such utility & flexibility for different regions of our country, in addition to their popularity.

Frankly, I've often thought there simply is way too many choices for consumers among all the different vehicle models and accessories offered by auto manufacturers. How many different models & options are there; hundreds? Why do we need so many? It's beyond time to get reasonable. Capitalism is great in my book, it brings out the best in us, but it seems our competitive nature has focussed a bit too much on vehicle models & the tweaking of profits. There's a limit on style, engine performance, and efficiencies based on the internal combustion engine.

Let's get on with future designs of travel. How about one-person or family helicopters, or vehicles that can both drive on the roads and fly? ;)

Jim Becker
05-14-2018, 12:33 PM
Al, "back in the day", there was a little more differentiation between brands (especially within one major overall name, like GM), models and the markets they targeted. That got diluted a whole lot over time and as a result, so many name-plates disappeared. Back then, you could also order most options "a la cartť" which for most brands/models in the mass market is very much a thing of the past. GM, FCA, others and now Ford have had to re-jigger things and it's not surprising to me that the bullseye is now on reducing less popular models and embracing what the public wants to buy, especially since it's not about the product/customer/employee anymore in business, but rather about Wall Street and short term financial results.

In some ways, the SUV and crossover revolution has ushered in an era of more practical vehicles for many drivers and that's without seriously limiting style and comfort for those who want it. Check out the new Rolls Royce SUV that is about to debut. :) :D

Matt Meiser
05-14-2018, 7:57 PM
Like many vehicles that are focused on the performance market, the Mustang will evolve relative to drive train just like every other vehicle, and most likely will adopt turbo technology along with smaller displacement engine(s), providing for the dual purpose of increased fuel economy without sacrificing overall performance. And don't count out electrification, either...some of the fastest vehicles in the world are 100% electric and even hybrids have a big edge "off the line" because of the massive torque that electric motors have available from a standing start. Ford, GM and FCA all put a lot of effort into reintroducing their classic muscle cars in recent years with strong emphasis on historical style combined with modern underpinnings and I doubt any of them will abandon these vehicles unless the market for them drops significantly. How they "sound" might change over time, however. :)

Mustang is already available with the Ecoboost 4 cylinder. Pretty easy to mod them into an 11s 1/4 mile car. Ford has already indicated the hybrid powertrain is coming. Wouldn't mind having one if it wasn't for winter. And Michigan insurance.


The new North American Ranger pick-em-up truck does have some roots in the vehicle that's been available elsewhere in the world, but they've also done a bit of work above that, too. GM did the same for their mid-sized pickups that were re-introduced to the market not so long ago.

I don't know about the Colorado/Canyon, but the Australian Ranger is pretty much what's coming here. Obviously changes were made to meet regulations and move the steering wheel to the other side. I guess the sheet metal is pretty much all different since they had to build new tools anyway. A friend posted a picture several weeks back of the first to be built at Michigan Truck Plant (by hand) and its a good looking truck. Depending on what we decide to do when we become empty nesters in 2 years, I could see leasing one as my next vehicle. Kind of like the new Colorado too but I had one of the previous gen ones and had more than acceptable level quality issues and since I get Z-plan as long as mom is around, makes it hard to buy anything else.

Bill Dufour
05-14-2018, 8:25 PM
I heard the proposed new ranger would be 90% as big as the F150 which is why Ford canned the ranger about five years ago. Just no real advantage. I hope the new ranger is a little smaller. I like being able to not have to do a three point turn in a parking lot or on my street. A F150 can not do that where I live.
Bil D .

Myk Rian
05-14-2018, 9:30 PM
You may be surprised how relatively easy it is for the manufacturers to augment both the intake and exhaust note of the vehicle. Some have been doing it in production since the mid 2000's.
My 1964.5 Mustang GT had tuned resonators from the factory. They've been doing it a long time.

Matt Meiser
05-14-2018, 10:41 PM
My 1964.5 Mustang GT had tuned resonators from the factory. They've been doing it a long time.

My 2017 Fusion Sport is quiet outside and inside in regular mode. Put it in Sport Mode and in addition to changing shift points, changes the stiffness of the electronic suspension, and a few other things the engine sounds much sportier. Inside only--they pipe the sound through the speakers! Bugged me that they did that but I got over it an enjoy driving it.

Brent Cutshall
05-15-2018, 6:33 AM
Eh, I'm a Chevy guy anyway. Yep, I just went there.:p

Curt Harms
05-15-2018, 6:47 AM
I hadn't heard of this until this thread, yet it had to come. I say this because the SUV line of vehicles offers such utility & flexibility for different regions of our country, in addition to their popularity.

Frankly, I've often thought there simply is way too many choices for consumers among all the different vehicle models and accessories offered by auto manufacturers. How many different models & options are there; hundreds? Why do we need so many? It's beyond time to get reasonable. Capitalism is great in my book, it brings out the best in us, but it seems our competitive nature has focussed a bit too much on vehicle models & the tweaking of profits. There's a limit on style, engine performance, and efficiencies based on the internal combustion engine.

Let's get on with future designs of travel. How about one-person or family helicopters, or vehicles that can both drive on the roads and fly? ;)

Observing the way people behave on roads while constrained by pavement and guard rails and various barriers, I'm not sure I'd want those to ..... people ..... to have unfettered 3 axis mobility in the same airspace as me.

Jim Becker
05-15-2018, 1:14 PM
Eh, I'm a Chevy guy anyway. Yep, I just went there.:p
GM is also looking closely at their passenger vehicles and thinking about what to keep and what not to keep.

Nathan Johnson
05-15-2018, 1:32 PM
GM is also looking closely at their passenger vehicles and thinking about what to keep and what not to keep.

Impala, Lacrosse, and whatever Cadillac equivalent is likely on the chopping block. Though Lacrosse sells well in China.

Jim Becker
05-15-2018, 5:51 PM
The China market loves Buick...

One thing that's going to be interesting to watch is the LE marketplace if vehicles like Taurus and Impala "go away". I know awhile back that Ford was developing a LE specific platform, but I haven't read anything about that lately.

Bill Dufour
05-15-2018, 9:35 PM
LE? Seems like Buick should sell an electra as their all Electric car. Didn't Harley make an electraglide?
Bil lD

Dave Lehnert
05-15-2018, 9:58 PM
Eh, I'm a Chevy guy anyway. Yep, I just went there.:p



I have owned 1 Dodge, 1 Chevy and 3 Ford
My 2013 Chevy Equinox is the best car I have ever owned. My 2001 Mustang was a very close second but sold it this Jan with only 45K miles.

Jim Becker
05-16-2018, 9:09 AM
LE? Seems like Buick should sell an electra as their all Electric car. Didn't Harley make an electraglide?
Bil lD

Law Enforcement. IE, "Smoky the Bear" :D

Bill Dufour
05-16-2018, 9:40 AM
Law enforcement... the California Highway patrol is slowly switching to Ford Explorers. They do huge group buys and invite all departments to buy together for lower prices. So most police forces here are switching at the same time.
Caltrans no longer buys custom yellow trucks they have switched to cheaper standard white paint with reflecter stripes.

Bill D

lowell holmes
05-16-2018, 11:28 AM
I have owned trucks from all three motor companies. I was happy with all of them. I have a 2015 F150. I am happy with it.

Unless misfortune strikes, I will pass on with it. My wife drives Denali. It is an excellent vehicle.

Jim Becker
05-16-2018, 12:51 PM
Law enforcement... the California Highway patrol is slowly switching to Ford Explorers. They do huge group buys and invite all departments to buy together for lower prices. So most police forces here are switching at the same time.

Many law enforcement agencies use the Interceptor version of the Explorer, although for awhile, they had to take them off the street due to a carbon monoxide issue that was causing serious safety issues. But the Interceptor version of the Taurus has also been very popular with forces. That's where I wonder if Ford still has a plan for a law enforcement specific non-SUV platform that I read about awhile back. I just haven't seen anything recently on that.

Bill Dufour
05-16-2018, 5:07 PM
Ford no longer makes the Crown Victoria which is what the California Highway patrol used for decades.
Bil lD.

Jim Becker
05-16-2018, 8:17 PM
Ford no longer makes the Crown Victoria which is what the California Highway patrol used for decades.
Bil lD.

That's correct...they have been selling Interceptor versions of the Taurus and Explorer for years now as a replacement.

Bill Dufour
05-17-2018, 9:20 AM
The CHP did use some mustangs as interceptors for a while. A four door vehicle is not an interceptor.
Bill D

Jim Becker
05-17-2018, 1:29 PM
The CHP did use some mustangs as interceptors for a while. A four door vehicle is not an interceptor.
Bill D
Look at the back of both the Ford sedan and SUV current police vehicles...they are labeled "Interceptor" :)

Bill Dufour
05-17-2018, 9:40 PM
Watch the original Road Warrior he drove an interceptor of some weird Australian make. To me interceptor means a high speed chase vehicle with no where to put a prisoner. Smaller, faster, and lighter then a full size cruiser. They catch the bad guy and some one in a big car comes and takes them away. Kind of like Harbor Freight calling a tool heavy duty professional industrial does not make it so. It is just wishful thinking.
Our friend with Tesla asked a highway patrol man if he wanted to race. He was told he knew he would lose i nthe short run but, we have helicopters.
Bill D.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/05/15/theres-only-one-original-mad-max-interceptor-and-its-not-in-australia/

Jason Roehl
05-18-2018, 6:32 AM
Ford's police-version of their vehicles have long been badged as "Interceptor" or "Police Interceptor". When they did away with the Crown Vic, Dodge got a huge boost in their sales of the Charger for police/government use. Then Ford started pushing the Explorer more as many police departments are getting away from allowing high-speed pursuit anyway, and a more rugged, 4WD vehicle makes more sense. My county, Tippecanoe, in Indiana, has entirely switched to AWD or 4WD vehicles over the last several years for the county police, a mix of Chargers, Durangos, Ram 1500s and F150s (I think there are only a couple F150s, and they're used as transport vehicles).

Jim Becker
05-18-2018, 9:31 AM
Yea, our local township force has a mix of Ford SUVs and Sedans, a token Charger, an older Durango (the pre 2011 truck based version) and a lovely new F150. They had a couple of Impalas, but got rid of them a year ago when the new Ford sedans showed up. PA State Troopers use a mix of (mostly Ford) SUVs and sedans...and folks should note that they are straying from the traditional white vehicles to a new darker grey. :) All of the Fords mentioned have "Interceptor" or "Police Interceptor" labels on them except the F150.

----

Bill, there's nothing wrong with your logic about "interceptor". I was just referring to manufacturer branding, not the actual use. You mentioned the Aussie connection...I actually was under the impression that the platform Ford had been looking at was related to that, but it was a long time ago I read the article I previously mentioned.

Bill Dufour
05-18-2018, 9:57 AM
I have a 2000 Ford ranger and the manual has more then one page about do not use this as a tow truck, police car or ambulance. The cooling system and alternator are not designed for the load, especially at idle. They get so hot the gas cap can blow off.
Awful big load on the alternator with lights,radio and computer all running at idle.

Jim Becker
05-18-2018, 10:30 AM
These "Interceptor" versions of the Ford vehicles are specifically built for the purpose and have things that "stock" versions don't have.

Bill Jobe
05-18-2018, 11:41 AM
And who can forget the Ford Gelding?

The next county over from mine uses a Mustang and also has (or had) 4 Harleys. Not sure if they still use bikes or the Mustang. I don't go that way very often anymore.

Jim Becker
05-18-2018, 12:49 PM
And who can forget the Ford Gelding?.

That sounds like a marketing disaster...at least from a naming perspective in English-speaking countries... :D

Bill Jobe
05-18-2018, 1:57 PM
That sounds like a marketing disaster...at least from a naming perspective in English-speaking countries... :D

It was one of David Letterman's top 10 lists from his latenight show on NBC. Back when his shows were funny.
Top 10 ideas for new car models that were thrown out.

Bill Dufour
05-18-2018, 3:07 PM
I grew up when the CHP had the big Dodge Polaras with the huge chrome bumpers. They used to have real sirens too. not the modern European ones.
Bill D.

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/72-polara-chp-pursuit.33101/