Pmv 11

[David Ragan]

I was thinking bout getting a couple plane blades to replace A2

Hardwood use

Probably a #4, and 164 BU @ 45* to start w

At the current time, I’m using a buffing wheel to strop-just lazy I guess-thrash me if you like

Have read last time discussed here that PMV11 can be sharper and last longer, but but but it takes more effort to get the edge?

For discussion, suppose I’m foolish enough to have access to different kinds of sharpening media

Worth it?

[Mike King]

I like my pmv11 blades and chisels. That being said, I wouldn't buy a pmv11 blade or chisel to replace a perfectly good one. Instead, focus on sharpening, and keeping sharp, what you've got!

[Patrick Chase]

I was thinking bout getting a couple plane blades to replace A2

Have read last time discussed here that PMV11 can be sharper and last longer, but but but it takes more effort to get the edge?

In my experience PM-V11 takes more effort to sharpen than does O1 on some media, but is comparable to A2 in that respect. I don't think you'll need to change your sharpening practices at all.


I like my pmv11 blades and chisels. That being said, I wouldn't buy a pmv11 blade or chisel to replace a perfectly good one.

I also wouldn't buy a pmv11 blade to replace a perfectly good one, but I would (and have) to get rid of A2 :-).

[Mike Henderson]

I like the PM-V11 chisels and find that they sharpen easily.

Mike

[ken hatch]

In my experience PM-V11 takes more effort to sharpen than does O1 on some media, but is comparable to A2 in that respect. I don't think you'll need to change your sharpening practices at all.



I also wouldn't buy a pmv11 blade to replace a perfectly good one, but I would (and have) to get rid of A2 :-).

Same here and my experience with PM-11 is sharpening it is closer to A2 that O1. Still quicker than A2 if using water stones but on Ark not so much.

A thick A2 cutter is/was a solution looking for a problem. I know it will never happen but I'd buy them in a heart beat if someone made a modern LN or Veritas quality "Bailey" style plane with thin O1 or even thin PM-11 cutters.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

I know it will never happen but I'd buy them in a heart beat if someone made a modern LN or Veritas quality "Bailey" style plane with thin O1 or even thin PM-11 cutters.

ken

Hi Ken

They are available, at least the PM-V11 blades are. I use them in my LN3# and #4 1/2.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=70671&cat=1,41182,43698&ap=1

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have several planes with PMV11 blades and at least one chisel. I use Spydeco stones for it, and see no major difference in sharpening it, versus A2. Subjectively, it seems to last longer.

[David Ragan]

The plane blades have to be slightly modified to fit LN right?

[glenn bradley]

I imagine much of our opinions are based on what we are used to. O1 gets very sharp but, needs touching up too often for me. Very possibly due to 'me' and not to 'it'. A2 stays sharp longer and sharpens easily to me but, I did not have years of non-A2 sharpening under my belt so it seems "normal". PM-V11 sharpens like A2 as far as I can tell and holds an edge many times longer. I have irons in A2 and PM-V11 in the same form due to random purchases over time. I use them interchangeably and switch them out when the edge starts to need attention. I tend to sharpen in batches if things need more than just a touch up like you would do during use. When a touch up won't do them end up off to the side to await my next batch sharpening effort. When I buy new, I buy PM-V11 whenever possible.

[Derek Cohen]

The plane blades have to be slightly modified to fit LN right?

David, you can use any blade in a LN as long as you use the LN chipbreaker. It is the chipbreaker that sets it apart, and this is due to the adjuster slot being higher than other makes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

David, you can use any blade in a LN as long as you use the LN chipbreaker. It is the chipbreaker that sets it apart, and this is due to the adjuster slot being higher than other makes.

That's incorrect, at least for every L-N bench plane I own. If you want to use a thinner iron in an L-N plane then you have to open up the slot in the cap iron that receives the depth-adjust tab.

The reason this is so is because the depth-adjust tab is tapered (gets thicker the closer you get to the frog) and the cap iron slot is very tightly toleranced to the tab's thickness 0.125" above the frog surface. If you use a thinner iron then you have to open the slot to compensate for the fact that the cap iron will sit closer to the frog, where the tab is thicker than the cap-iron opening.

I suspect that L-N has tightened that slot over the years to reduce backlash, as that's something that reviewers tend to critique (pointlessly IMO) and that L-N does well at. I suspect that my L-Ns are much newer than yours as I'm much newer to hand woodworking, and that may explain the difference in our experiences.

[David Ragan]

David, you can use any blade in a LN as long as you use the LN chipbreaker. It is the chipbreaker that sets it apart, and this is due to the adjuster slot being higher than other makes.

Regards from Perth


Derek

Perfect Perfect

[ken hatch]

Hi Ken

They are available, at least the PM-V11 blades are. I use them in my LN3# and #4 1/2.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=70671&cat=1,41182,43698&ap=1

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I still need the modern LN or Veritas quality "Bailey" type plane to go with the cutters :p.

ken

[ken hatch]

That's incorrect, at least for every L-N bench plane I own. If you want to use a thinner iron in an L-N plane then you have to open up the slot in the cap iron that receives the depth-adjust tab.

The reason this is so is because the depth-adjust tab is tapered (gets thicker the closer you get to the frog) and the cap iron slot is very tightly toleranced to the tab's thickness 0.125" above the frog surface. If you use a thinner iron then you have to open the slot to compensate for the fact that the cap iron will sit closer to the frog, where the tab is thicker than the cap-iron opening.

I suspect that L-N has tightened that slot over the years to reduce backlash, as that's something that reviewers tend to critique (pointlessly IMO) and that L-N does well at. I suspect that my L-Ns are much newer than yours as I'm much newer to hand woodworking, and that may explain the difference in our experiences.

Yep, I agree with both points.

BTW, reviewers can cause lots of mischief e.g. heavy vs. light, Bedrock vs. Bailey, edge longevity vs. whatever, and the list goes on and on.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

BTW, reviewers can cause lots of mischief e.g. heavy vs. light, Bedrock vs. Bailey, edge longevity vs. whatever, and the list goes on and on.

Indeed. Don't even get me started on that topic. When I read plane reviews I often find myself wondering if the reviewer knows that most of their criteria are meaningless and are just doing it because that's what the readers expect, or if they actually believe in what they write. Back when I was a product designer I was senior enough that I was sometimes my group's designated "engineer who answers reviewers' questions", and I've seen both kinds up close.

[steven c newman]

Kind of leaves me out...all of mine use the OEM blades...Stanley AND Millers Falls....haven't seen any need to change them out....

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

I still need the modern LN or Veritas quality "Bailey" type plane to go with the cutters :p.

ken

Ken, a photo from the weekend past .... UK-made Stanley #3 with PM-V11 blade.

https://s19.postimg.cc/3wh6wzuc3/Stanley-_PM-_V11.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Ragan]

I’m ready to order for (was trying to keep brand out of discussion)
L N:
-#4
Block plane. 60 1/2
And 164

I have a machine shop guy

Which one for # 164?

[ken hatch]

Ken, a photo from the weekend past .... UK-made Stanley #3 with PM-V11 blade.

https://s19.postimg.cc/3wh6wzuc3/Stanley-_PM-_V11.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Looks good Derek. Ro you use it often?

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Ken

I use that Stanley #3 a fair amount of the time. With the chipbreaker set close, it can plane anything. In the above situation, the BU Smoother was preferred as it has a slightly wider blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I’m ready to order for (was trying to keep brand out of discussion)
L N:
-#4
Block plane. 60 1/2
And 164

I have a machine shop guy

Which one for # 164?

Howdy David,

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you going to have your machine shop guy do something to the the planes after you get them?

The #164 is an uncommon plane for a reason. There were few who found a need for a plane that didn't have an essential or special purpose to earn a place in their shop.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

Hey Derek,

Not to hijack this thread, but do you think it'd be feasible to pop a PMV11 blade into a Mujingfang plane?
I love the ergonomics of the Muji plane, but hate sharpening the irons.

[David Ragan]

Howdy David,

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you going to have your machine shop guy do something to the the planes after you get them?

The #164 is an uncommon plane for a reason. There were few who found a need for a plane that didn't have an essential or special purpose to earn a place in their shop.

jtk

Hey Jim

I like it set up ~45* (blade angle) for difficult smoothing jobs; that same way I have the 62 set up

Have had the good fortune to have lots of exotic gifted

[David Ragan]

So, I would refine my answer to JTK in regards to why have a 62 and 164, in that, I like to use a lot of figured woods, and have not mastered the scraping planes that well.

Now, I called LV yesterday wanting to know about what blade to put in the LN planes (recall I said earlier my desire to leave brands out of the discussion).

But, I called LV yesterday, and they put me through to the tech person, who was super nice, but was unable to help me out, said I needed to actually measure my blades; I wound up ordering a PMV11 for my #4.

Yes, I understand that they are competitors, but what harm is there in helping out a loyal customer who wants just to buy a blade w a disclaimer: "Gee David (loyal customer) this is what we think will be pretty close to the (LN) plane that you have, some modification may be necessary".

I am simply not in my shop that much at all. It would be great to be able to handle this stuff without all the fuss.

Even on LN, they don't say how long the blades are. Of course, I understand that upon repeated sharpening, the blade becomes shorter.

Anyway, I expect the PMV11 any day for my #4-my machine shop guy is waiting if I need him.

[Tony Zaffuto]

So, I would refine my answer to JTK in regards to why have a 62 and 164, in that, I like to use a lot of figured woods, and have not mastered the scraping planes that well.

Now, I called LV yesterday wanting to know about what blade to put in the LN planes (recall I said earlier my desire to leave brands out of the discussion).

But, I called LV yesterday, and they put me through to the tech person, who was super nice, but was unable to help me out, said I needed to actually measure my blades; I wound up ordering a PMV11 for my #4.

Yes, I understand that they are competitors, but what harm is there in helping out a loyal customer who wants just to buy a blade w a disclaimer: "Gee David (loyal customer) this is what we think will be pretty close to the (LN) plane that you have, some modification may be necessary".

I am simply not in my shop that much at all. It would be great to be able to handle this stuff without all the fuss.

Even on LN, they don't say how long the blades are. Of course, I understand that upon repeated sharpening, the blade becomes shorter.

Anyway, I expect the PMV11 any day for my #4-my machine shop guy is waiting if I need him.

Personally David, I think you will be better off using the #4, along with close setting of the chipbreaker.

[Derek Cohen]

Hey Derek,

Not to hijack this thread, but do you think it'd be feasible to pop a PMV11 blade into a Mujingfang plane?
I love the ergonomics of the Muji plane, but hate sharpening the irons.

Matt, if they are the same size, then why not?

The blade in my Muji smoother is 1-3/4" wide. It looks like a Stanley, with the hole for the chipbreaker at the opposite end of the slot. It works in a Stanley #3. So why not the other way around? Measure.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Ragan]

Personally David, I think you will be better off using the #4, along with close setting of the chipbreaker.

Hi Tony,

The thing is that the steep cutting angle ("included"?) does a better job of severing the oncoming fibers.

I probably have some of my chipbreakers set too close, closer than necessary most of the time.

Is there a downside to that?

I suppose that if I also closed down the mouth as close as possible, it may allow a good result w contrary grain.

Anyway, am watching for delivery of the PMV11 for the #4, hopefully it will not need to be altered.

[ken hatch]

Hi Tony,

The thing is that the steep cutting angle ("included"?) does a better job of severing the oncoming fibers.

I probably have some of my chipbreakers set too close, closer than necessary most of the time.

Is there a downside to that?

I suppose that if I also closed down the mouth as close as possible, it may allow a good result w contrary grain.

Anyway, am watching for delivery of the PMV11 for the #4, hopefully it will not need to be altered.

David,

A close set mouth is overrated as a means to control tear out and can cause more problems than it fixes. Set the cap iron for the planed use, make sure the mouth is wide enough to pass the shavings and go to work. BTW, I can never remember closing or opening the mouth of a plane after the original set up. Moving the cap iron to match need happens all the time.

But then maybe it is because I use mostly "tame" woods and as always....YMMV.

ken

[Matt Lau]

I might. Sharpening Muji irons freehand sucks...or maybe I lack skill.

[David Ragan]

The PMV 11 came today (the one on the LV website as for the #4) and the pictures are below.

Below are the stock LN blade (top) laid out next to the new PMV11 one
The cutting mat squares are 1/2" each

386238

On to the lapping of the back-easily done; the picture below was obtained quite easily w Shapton stones after several passes. I was surprised at how flat the back was. Ruler trick completely unnecessary.

386239

The picture below was taken w blade straight out of box, on BORG pine:


386240


The big question is:

How easy does it sharpen?

It did take some work to get to my own 30* bevel, actually more than I anticipated w 220 grit Shapton.

I could have manipulated the angle for an easier time (steeper angle/thinner bevel), but I like to zero in from the get go.

How long will it hold the edge?

No idea-time will tell

My (amateur) thoughts are:

1) Lee Valley would do us a service by making is easier to select a blade for a given non-LV plane (see my previous post in this thread).

2) This here fit my LN#4 beautifully

3) It was not as sharp out of the box as 'some other' premium brands (FWIW)

4) IIRC, the back is flatter than the 'other' premium blades....it been years since I bought any plane blades though

5) Is it as sharp as the stock LN blade given a defined sharpening protocol? See #6

6) Does it hold an edge longer and easier to sharpen than A2, W1, etc?
Probably, but I will leave that to more qualified persons.