Why do I need a scrub plane?

[Adam Herd]

Just signed up for Rob Cosman's online hand tool workshop classes. The first project is a candle box and he is going through how to make it step by step. He is using a scrub plane to dimension the lumber. Why is a scrub plane needed? Or is it needed? Can I just use my number 5 if I want? I want try to follow his projects through step by step but I don't want to spend a thousand dollars on tools. I do have a planer and jointer that I could use but want to try doing it with all hand tools.

[Derek Cohen]

Quick answer: You can use a #5 with a 8" radius blade on a 2" wide blade. That will remove waste aggressively.

Longer answer: a scrub uses a narrower blade, typically 1 3/4", with a tight radius of 3". This allows it to cut deeper than a jack (as set up above) but one must realise that this planing is very aggressive and is aimed at removing a lot of timber. It also does so with less control than the jack, and may create more damage than you want if you are simply reducing the thickness of a board by 1/2" or so.

I imagine that the boxes Rob is guiding you through will be small, and the amount of waste to remove will be relatively small. If one was to take a shallower cut (to control the damage or depth), one may as well be using a jack. In fact the jack, with an 8" radius will remove a wider amount and do so faster.

For reference, 8" radius is aggressive. My go-to jack has an 11"-12" radius.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Nicholas Lawrence]

The scrub plane takes thicker shavings. By way of illustration, if the smooth plane took .001 shavings, it would take 1000 strokes to remove an inch of material. If the jack took .01 shavings, it would take 100 strokes, and if the scrub took .1 shavings, it would take ten strokes.

Practically speaking of course, if you need to remove an inch, you should be reaching for a saw. But a scrub can reduce thickness very quickly. You can use a jack to do the same thing, it will just take a little longer.

[andy bessette]

The scrub plane's large mouth allows for clearing large chips.

[lowell holmes]

I bought a narrow plane iron and ground the cutting edge to a radius. It is effective as a scrub plane with that iron and breaker in it.
I put the flat iron and breaker back in for smooth planning. It is a #3 Bailey plane.

[Brandon Speaks]

I dont have a dedicated scrub but have a number 4 that is destined to become one when I get a free morning. Cambered blade and relieving the mouth a bit should do it from what I understand.

High level all a scrub plane is is one set to take deeper cuts, less agressive yours is the longer it will take. On one hand I want one, on the other Im not in a hurry and I like planing, so I have not made it an urgent task.

[Andrew Seemann]

I've got a Stanley 40 scrub plane. I don't use it that often, but it is quite handy to have when I need it. I only have a 6" Jet jointer, so if I have a wider board I need to flatten prior to running it through the planer I use the scrub plane if it needs more aggressive stock removal than a quick jack planning. It's also a lot lighter than a #5 and easier to take a deep cut. It is by no means necessary, just a handier way to remove material faster. Careful selection of your rough stock can reduce the need for it as well.

[Jim Koepke]

A while back my thought was who needs a scrub plane? Then one day one of my bum deals from ebay involving a pair of #5-1/4 planes, got one of the planes set up with a cambered blade to try just for the fun of it to see what everyone was talking about.

The way taking thick shavings could quickly knock down the rough surface on a piece of alder amazed me. Enough so that the #5-1/4 is still set up to be a scrub plane. Most recently a #40 was in an antique store for a price that couldn't be turned down. So now there are two "scrub planes" in my shop.

If you work with rough wood, they are a real help.

jtk

[ken hatch]

ECE sells a horned wood stock scrub for less that $100 USDs. I've used the one I own for more than 30 years and for the job it does it is invaluable. I've used metal planes with a highly cambered iron and they work but a the ECE scrub is perfection for the job. The do you need a scrub plane question can be answered by are you prepping rough stock by hand often, if so you need a scrub.

ken

[Bob Glenn]

As far as your thickness planer and jointer goes, how wide can you process a board? I make windsor chairs and process two inch by 20 inch seat blanks which are sometimes cupped. My scrub plane makes short work of removing the waste. Also, I leave the bottoms of the seats with the scrub plane furrows intact. They don't show but make a nice discovery for the sitter when he feels the hand planned bottom.

As previously mentioned, don't go out and buy a scrub plane, just camber an extra iron for your jack, move the frog all the way back to open the mouth and go for it.

[steven c newman]

There was an episode of The Woodwright's Shop, that had Chris Schwarz telling about "Handplane essentials".....would be worth another look.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Very, very useful plane if you do all by hand, including preparation of stock. Easy to master, works great, gives great feedback and is pleasure to use. It's like using an axe, or a drawknife - very basic and very rewarding. Yes, also easy to over do and dig in too much. Besides that, it makes wood working by hand more efficient - that's why we need more than one plane. So, if you plan to do more all hand tool woodworking then I would say it's better to have it sooner than later.

Another thing to consider is - you can make one yourself from wood. Wooden scrub plane feels at work even better than metal one. I would recommend to buy iron or blade for it from Veritas iron Scrub Plane, made from PM-V11 powder metal - when used in scrub plane it needs very seldom resharpening.

And remember (or learn) the rule "coarse, medium, fine" - very important in hand tools wood working.

[chris carter]

As others have mentioned, a scrub removes lots of wood quickly and easily, saving you from trying to do it painfully and slowly with a normal jack.

I am personally not in the scrub plane camp because they ride the bumps pretty easily, which I typically don’t want. Instead I use a fore plane. Some might say it’s semantics, but it’s an old transitional Stanley 26 jack plane (transitional version of a no. 5). The longer sole makes it easier to get the wood, or keep the wood, flat. The other thing is that hogging off tons of wood when thicknessing way down, or when you torture yourself like I have splitting logs and dimensioning them by hand, having a wooden plane or transitional makes it a lot easier on your body. They weigh considerably less and they glide over the wood very easily (without having to wax the sole every few minutes) compared to a metal soled plane.

From everything I’ve experienced, anywhere you would use a scrub, you can use a fore, and the other way around. You can also make any jack a fore instantly by getting a second iron and putting a heavy radius on it, but you will have to widen the mouth or adjust the frog to get clearance for the chips, and then adjust it back when you switch back to the previous iron – kind of a pain. A fore plane is not a precision instrument so you could take a junk jack plane that would otherwise need a lot of tuning and make it into a perfectly acceptable fore plane pretty easily.

(EDIT:) I might also add, my fore plane probably takes more passes than my other bench planes. I get it really close with the fore, then follow it with a few passes of my jack to remove the scallops and take it the last 16th or 32nd to the line, and then a couple passes with my smoother. So unless you will use a power thickness planer, a scrub or fore is a must in my experience.

[andy bessette]

I bought my Lie Nielsen 40-1/2 scrub plane, slightly used, for $125.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I agree with Chris Carter. I don't like the short length of scrub planes like the Stanley #40, in fact I sold mine years ago. I use a beater no name #5 with a cambered iron and the extra length gives a lot more control and stability when going diagonally across a board. This is particularly true when making the second passes in the opposing diagonal. There is a school of thought that claims the #40 was actually designed for carpenters to trim door edges and bottoms during installations. I don't know if I subscribe to that theory, but it would certainly be a workable solution.

[Lamar Keeney]

385535
When you start with a slab like this and got 5/8 to wear off it to get it trued up to the thickness as seen below, You need a dedicated scrub plan, With the wooden scrub the shavings looked more like Frito corn chips instead of shavings

385536For most smaller projects The modified jack or smoother will more than suffice.

BTW This became my workbench top

[steven c newman]

There are some out there that buy that Harbor Freight No. 33 Windsor Plane, regrind the iron to a 3" radius...and you have a #3 sized, dedicated Scrub plane.....

I found an old Corsair #5 sized plane.....ground the iron to an 8" radius....and it is now my dedicated scrub plane. Mouth was wide enough, without any adjustments made.....

[Jim Koepke]

There is a school of thought that claims the #40 was actually designed for carpenters to trim door edges and bottoms during installations. I don't know if I subscribe to that theory, but it would certainly be a workable solution.

Unless there is something in a Stanley tool catalog to support that it sounds like the usual talk after a few deep dips in to an afternoon happy hour.

A #5 is very capable on the final trim of door edges or bottoms.

jtk

[Steven Mikes]

Just buy the ECE scrub plane. After you use it you will understand why you needed it :D I never used any other, but I can imagine an iron-bodied scrub plane would be significantly more tiring than the small wooden body of the ECE scrub.

[ken hatch]

Just buy the ECE scrub plane. After you use it you will understand why you needed it :D I never used any other, but I can imagine an iron-bodied scrub plane would be significantly more tiring than the small wooden body of the ECE scrub.

Steve,

I couldn't agree more....everything else is a workaround. It doesn't cost much and works better than any other.

ken

[Joe Bailey]

Unless there is something in a Stanley tool catalog to support that it sounds like the usual talk after a few deep dips in to an afternoon happy hour.

jtk


Here's what the Stanley catalog does say about the No 40 and 40½:

"For planing down to a rough dimension any board that is too wide to conveniently rip with a hand saw, an operation that is sometimes called 'hogging'."

[bridger berdel]

I have a #40. until I got one I considered it in the "possibly interesting" category. Having one, I can say a couple of things about it.

The #40 is significantly smaller and lighter than #5 with a cambered iron. It has no chipbreaker and a wiiiide mouth, so it's fast and loose compared to a fore. It's small enough to operate one handed in a pinch, so is useful for scribing in the edge of a board. If you have an over thickness board with a bunch of twist or bow to it the scrub will get you into range for the jack pretty quickly. It's brutally fast. One small step more refined than an axe.

It also leaves it's own set of tool marks, which are in place for "very rustic" work.

[Bill McNiel]

Steve,

I couldn't agree more....everything else is a workaround. It doesn't cost much and works better than any other.

ken

J'accord! I have owned, and used, an ECE Scrub for over 40 years. It is a great plane and used often. I also have a Bailey #5 with a much softer radius that functions quite well.

[Tom M King]

I'll agree with anyone on the ECE too. I bought this one new over 40 years ago also. Wear to the mouth is from use, and to the finish is from sweat. It's fun to throw shavings three feet in the air. When I wear this one out, I'll get another one. It's been used to clean up old beams more than dimensioning stock.

[steven c newman]

385602
This evil looking iron belongs in my scrub plane..
385603
Yes, it is a jack plane, but...
385604
It has a very BIG mouth. Corsair C-5, not the single frog bolt. This plane was made for scrub plane work...and cost me a whopping $6!
Has had quite a few years of work, and has been sharpened.....once since the first sharpening. It does not do "shavings", it does "FRito-Lay Scoops" and even knots do not slow it down.

[Derek Cohen]

Just signed up for Rob Cosman's online hand tool workshop classes. The first project is a candle box and he is going through how to make it step by step. He is using a scrub plane to dimension the lumber. Why is a scrub plane needed? Or is it needed? Can I just use my number 5 if I want? I want try to follow his projects through step by step but I don't want to spend a thousand dollars on tools. I do have a planer and jointer that I could use but want to try doing it with all hand tools.

Fellows, the question asked by the OP is whether a scrub plane is a viable tool in the context of building a candle box. He also points out that he does not wish to spend tool money unnecessarily. So, would you use a scrub or a jack plane under these specific circumstances?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Cambered Jack.

[ken hatch]

Fellows, the question asked by the OP is whether a scrub plane is a viable tool in the context of building a candle box. He also points out that he does not wish to spend tool money unnecessarily. So, would you use a scrub or a jack plane under these specific circumstances?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

You expect answers to the OP's question. How delusional can you be.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

You expect answers to the OP's question. How delusional can you be.

ken


:D


Regards from Perth

Crazy Derek

[Warren Mickley]

The scrub plane is not a part of the English and American tradition. For rough work we have used a beech plane in the 16 inch range called either a jack or a fore plane.

The term scrub plane was made up by Stanley around 1890 for a plane they were marketing to immigrants who used a short plane like this. As they explained at the time, scrub plane is Anglicized version of the German schrupp hobel or schropp hobel, roughing plane.

You can make a candle box with one plane; I used to do so when I was young. I certainly would hold off on buying a scrub plane that costs a significant amount of money. There is some doubt that you would even want a scrub plane if you were experienced.

[Tom M King]

I don't remember ever using mine to size something. It's great for cleaning up something old, and dirty, before doing anything else with the wood though. It'll get down to clean wood in a hurry, which is what you want to do before running it through a jointer, or planer, or putting a good plane iron into it.

[James Waldron]

I've got a shop made scrub plane with a Hock blade. The sole is fully boxed in Ipe, polished and waxed to a fine level. Since I work a lot in rough stock, I rely on it to take the rough surface down to something my foreplane can work on to good effect. It does that in very short order. I'm not taking off enormous thick chunks; about a 1/16" or less shaving is enough and with the light weight and the 6" radius, 1-3/4" wide blade kept sharp, it goes very fast and without a lot of sweat.

I also use it at times to roughly dimension my stock. It's faster than sawing an edge to width for anything less than 1" and often leaves an edge ready for the jointer. Thicknessing goes quickly, too, faster than my foreplane can do. In both cases, I've learned that it's important to pay attention and not overshoot the line; if the stock is too narrow or too thin, it's generally not a good thing.

Specific things I've learned about scrub planing along the way:



a light weight plane is your friend; the motion is far easier and less tiring. You really do want a woodie, manufactured or shop built.
a sharp blade is, as always, your friend. Folks who claim years of scrub planing without sharpening are not seeing the best of their gear.
taking a shaving of modest thickness is your friend. Too thick and what seems like a more efficient procedure quickly tires you out and slows progress, increases tear-out, and makes a good tool look bad.
Keeping your motion at a brisk pace is a good thing. No, not because it makes the job go faster (although it does, of course). It's because it gives a more uniform surface for the foreplane to address. A slow stroke is prone to stopping and starting at tough spots, and leaving a messy surface, particularly at and around knots.


That's the way it works for me. Maybe it will for you, as well.

[Joe Rogers]

I find one thing about my #40 Scrub and my hogging #5 Jack and both will have me ankle deep in chips very quickly. Came in very handy starting the woodstove this cold past winter.
Joe