dogwood source

[Bill Kelleher]

Does anyone have a source for dogwood? I have a request for a portable alter from my priest. The dimensions he requests are2.5 inches thick by 15 long by 10 deep. So far what i can find are pen blanks, but nothing larger.
Any ideas for a source?
thanks Bill

[Mel Fulks]

It twists and moves a lot, I would only use it for small pieces or veneer. Even something as small as a mallet head can get so distorted that you reshape it before it's even used.

[John K Jordan]

Does anyone have a source for dogwood? I have a request for a portable alter from my priest. The dimensions he requests are2.5 inches thick by 15 long by 10 deep. So far what i can find are pen blanks, but nothing larger.
Any ideas for a source?
thanks Bill

I cut and dry a lot of dogwood. Around here, at least, and I think most everywhere, dogwood tends to be a small diameter tree, larger if it's a yard tree. I got one yard tree I was able to cut a 1x12 from near the center (and some larger blocks like one 4x6x18") but that was very unusual.

I've never seen or heard of it for sale. The Wood Database indicates "Pricing/Availability: Not generally available commercially. Small quantities of Dogwood are occasionally harvested and utilized locally throughout its natural range, with prices high for a domestic hardwood." http://www.wood-database.com/dogwood/
You might try WoodFinder - a small sawmill somewhere in the range might have some. http://woodfinder.com/ I entered "dogwood" and it returned several contacts.

If you find some I suspect you might have to glue up pieces like a cutting board to get that size. Would he agree to a substitute? Some hard maple I have looks and feels pretty close, perhaps it could be stained. Hobbithouseinc.com mentions one sample "has the same smooth pink appearance and texture as European pearwood veneer." Note that like most woods, dogwood will darken considerably with age.

How about making it from something else and covering with dogwood veneer (if available) or from thin resawn pieces?

As for the wood, it is very hard and heavy, one of my favorite turning woods. The dogwood I'm using now I've had air drying since 2006. It warps like crazy and is especially unstable at the junction of the (small) dark brown heartwood and the (larger) sapwood. The sapwood is usually white or cream colored, sometimes with a pink cast, but I do have some on the shelf that is almost rainbow colored with streaks of pink, brown, and green. I once got some that is spalted - beautiful stuff! I cut most of of the dogwood I get into spindle turning blanks, often 2x2x12 or so but some larger and up to 5' long.

Example of some on my drying shelves now from two years ago, the larger pieces probably won't be dry enough to use a long time.
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Be advised that if cut square by the time it's dry it will be diamond shaped! Look at how much this small cylinder warped even though it was partially dry when turned:
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If you do find a good source, please share it! (After you get what you need, of course!)

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I agree with John and although I haven't cut much of it, everything on my property as well as anything visible in my local geography are trees that are more of a "large shrub" than a "tree". I have several that while 15-20' tall, are only about 4-5" in diameter outside of at the very base, and that's because they are really old. I do not believe you'll fine it available as lumber as has been stated.

You might want to speak with your client about why they want "dogwood"...I suspect there's some reason the priest is asking for that. Perhaps using another species with dogwood highlights might be acceptable. And "dogwood" in the request might actually be referring to some other actual species as there are many references in literature and liturgy to things described as such and such, but actually meaning something entirely different, often because of time and geography.

[Chris Fournier]

While I am neither a Taxonomist nor a Priest I have the feeling that a Priest who is also not a Taxonomist made this request. I believe that the priest is looking to make a lectern out of a wood referred to in the bible and that legend has it was the species of wood which the cross at Calvary was made of.

I would discuss with the man of the cloth the possibility of using Cedar of Lebanon as the species for this project. This cedar is mentioned in the bible many times and would indeed make a fine lectern!

[John K Jordan]

...
I would discuss with the man of the cloth the possibility of using Cedar of Lebanon as the species for this project. This cedar is mentioned in the bible many times and would indeed make a fine lectern!

And MUCH lighter in weight for a portable item.

JKJ

[Keith Outten]

Adding to what Chris shared the Dogwood tree was never to grow straight and tall again so it could never again be used for crucifixion. I expect a priest would know this story.

The Dogwood is our state tree in Virginia so we frequently see them but I have never seen one that I felt were large enough to yield any lumber.

[Frank Drew]

Even something as small as a mallet head can get so distorted that you reshape it before it's even used.

It used to a common wood for mallet heads due to its toughness but I assume long, careful drying times were necessary

[Frank Drew]

I would discuss with the man of the cloth the possibility of using Cedar of Lebanon as the species for this project. This cedar is mentioned in the bible many times and would indeed make a fine lectern!

Chris, are you able to find Cedar of Lebanon? I tried to find some to use for dresser drawer bottoms but never came up with any.

[John K Jordan]

I agree with John and although I haven't cut much of it, everything on my property as well as anything visible in my local geography are trees that are more of a "large shrub" than a "tree". I have several that while 15-20' tall, are only about 4-5" in diameter outside of at the very base, and that's because they are really old. ...

We must have plenty of dog food in the soil here. I walked out and looked closer at a few dogwood trees I've noticed on the property but never examined carefully.

This one is 12" to 14" in diameter over 6-7' The crotch looks perfect from the outside and may be wide enough to cut a 14-15" circle. Even the branches above the crotch are 8-9"+ in diameter. This tree is over 45' tall. The ruler leaning at the base is 24".

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The second one I measured is a little bigger in diameter (47" circumference at near the ground) and the trunk is longer to the first branches, but the branches are smaller and the tree is not as tall, maybe 25-30'. The crotch doesn't look useful.

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I checked a third tree but it had a holly and some other growth around it so I couldn't get close enough to measure. There's another one 30' from the shop that looks larger in diameter but the main trunk is pretty short.

All of these trees are just inside the woods at the edge of fields where the soil is good and they get plenty of light. Those further under the big trees don't anywhere this big. There are probably 100s of small dogwoods. I noticed a 20" persimmon too.

I cut up trees here that come down in storms or have to be removed, but not for the wood. I'm tempted to break my rule for one of these trees since by the time one dies, I may be too old to use it after waiting years for the wood to dry!

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

John, you must indeed feed those well or they are as old as the hills! LOL Perhaps you being further south makes a difference? I've not personally seen any that big around here, but that's too anecdotal to be factual, of course.

[Stan Calow]

Dogwood is our state tree in Missouri. Ive heard the story regarding the crucifixion before too. I understood that the dogwood flowers are marked with a red tip on each of the four petals as a sign of the blood of Christ (hands, feet, head).

[Thomas L Carpenter]

I was told as a child that the cross used to crucify Jesus was dogwood and the lord decreed that dogwood would never grow to that size again. True or not, who knows but my guess is that's why the pastor would like dogwood.

[Bob Cooper]

Acacia (sp?) would be another biblical wood

[Phillip Gregory]

Adding to what Chris shared the Dogwood tree was never to grow straight and tall again so it could never again be used for crucifixion. I expect a priest would know this story.

The Dogwood is our state tree in Virginia so we frequently see them but I have never seen one that I felt were large enough to yield any lumber.

Here in Missouri the dogwood is also our state tree and there are a lot of them. They are easy to identify about May 1st as they are a very pretty flowering tree at that time, and the ones I have growing next to the office where I work and also behind my house in the woods are up to 40 feet tall and about the size that Mr. Jordan up in the thread posted pictures of. I've never cut one down as I haven't needed to and the woods are full of white oaks and walnut which make much better lumber.

I have quite a bit of experience with "Cedar of Lebanon" and cut down a bunch, when I lived an hour further northeast along "eye-farty-far." :D

[Frank Drew]

Phillip, interesting that you're able to harvest Cedar of Lebanon near you; it's native to the Eastern Mediterranean although I know that specimen trees were planted elsewhere (England, for example.)

Dogwood, however, isn't native to that area (Middle East).

[Nick Decker]

I think Phillip is referring to Lebanon, MO, which is along I-44. I can attest that there's plenty of cedar around there.

[Phillip Gregory]

Phillip, interesting that you're able to harvest Cedar of Lebanon near you; it's native to the Eastern Mediterranean although I know that specimen trees were planted elsewhere (England, for example.)

Dogwood, however, isn't native to that area (Middle East).

It was a couple of regional jokes and Nick Decker got them. The part about "eye farty far" refers to many St. Louisans with their nasal accents would pronounce 44 as "farty far" rather than "forty four." Those of us who grew up outside of St. Louis and its inner suburbs but close enough to the metro area to know they talked that way enjoy making fun of their unusual accent.

[Nick Decker]

Middle East, Middle West, whatever it takes.

:)

[Frank Drew]

Too funny!

[jim mills]

Just watched some youtube videos today of someone riving logs, and his preferred wood for larger wedges (he had a name for them but I forget) was dogwood. He said it was tough, hard, and doesnt split. He was beating on them pretty good!

[Mel Fulks]

Jim, the term I've heard for the wood wedges is "gluts".

[John K Jordan]

'Bout 15 years ago I made both a maul and some gluts from green dogwood, following suggestions in some old book. For the maul it said to dig up a small dogwood to use the trunk as a ready-made handle and the root "ball" as the head. Looked like a caveman's club.

It was satisfying to use. A steel wedge or froe is easier to get the crack started in the end of a log but part of that was probably my lack of experience. I found out later the sharp edge of the glut should be a bit rounded when viewed from the side and mine had square corners which tended to deform. Once started the big wood glut does split the wood nicely. I followed the suggestions to split the hickory into handle-sized pieces and dry them for a year in the barn loft - I've made a bunch of handles from that tree, including one for an old froe, an adze, shovel, and hoe. I did cheat and use the lathe instead of the draw knife to make most of them, but riving the wood instead of sawing certainly makes sure the grain follows the handle!