How do you guys get Aldi chisels to hold up?

[John C Cox]

What's the secret sauce on these Aldi chisels guys? Paul Sellers sings the praises of these up and down - even going so far as to declare them close to equal to his favorite vintage chisels.....

So far - they haven't really held up well for me.... But I am willing to try different things.

So... If you get awesome life out of them - spill the beans... What are your secrets?

[lowell holmes]

Check this link. :)


https://www.google.com/search?q=aldi+chisels&rlz=1C1PRFI_enUS790US790&oq=aldi+ch&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.10322j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Mike Brady]

The review that I find most telling is the one that calls the Aldi chisels "the best chisels that you can buy in a grocery store". My set dulls crumble quickly, but a swipe or two on a strop brings them back enough to chop waste in softer woods. I use them mostly to preserve my real chisels for paring. I do have another set still in the blister pack that I'm going to sharpen and see if a different production batch makes a difference. I would term the Aldis to be toolbox chisels that you might lend to a careless neighbor.

Mr. Sellers deserves a big "thank you" from Aldi, if not from the woodworking community. He has influenced a ton of non-customers to venture into their stores to spend some money. Unfortunately, I don't think he did his U.S. on-line followers much of a favor by diverting dollars that could have been better spent buying real tools.

[steven c newman]

Not sure what others are doing to their chisels.....never had a lick of trouble, with either of my two sets. Flatten the flats a bit, hone the bevel at around 25-30 degrees, and go to work. Crumbled?

Must be drop testing them onto concrete?

While in use, I may "strop" the edge ...on the leg of my bluejeans....

Oh, I get it now......you have mistaken a paring style chisel for a mortise chisel..right?

There is no "secret sauce" to these chisels....just sharpen them up, and get back to work....

BTW: my "non-Aldi's" chisels were made long before Mr. Brady was even born....

[Frederick Skelly]

John,
I have a couple sets of them. One is set up for paring with a primary bevel of 20* and a secondary of 2 more degrees. They hold their edge fine for me with no crumbling. But I'm only working in soft wood. So that could be a factor - are you working hardwood?

Fred

[John C Cox]

I have not seen any crumbling - only rolling. Rolling on end grain mahogany and end grain spruce. Started at 25 - no love. Added a microbevel at 30... Better but still rolling... Moved up to 35.... The edge was still rolling... Just tonight - I ground off the bevel (back to flat) on the 3/4" size and re-ground at 30 to see if perhaps I was running into decarb or forging grain flow issues...

I will have to work with them on wood to see if they are any different...

I have to wonder if they changed their recipe when Aldi chisels "Hit the Big Time" in the USA.... Going from selling into a population of 20-30 million to a population of 300 million can cause some supply chain trauma...

[Jim Koepke]

I have to wonder if they changed their recipe when Aldi chisels "Hit the Big Time" in the USA.... Going from selling into a population of 20-30 million to a population of 300 million can cause some supply chain trauma...

All the above and occasionally a bad bunch makes it out the door of any manufacturer.

jtk

[John C Cox]

All I am trying to figure out is how to get these set up so the edges don't fold (I haven't had any trouble with these chipping)... I just want them to "wear normally" - and then I can get a better feeling for how the actual "edge life" stacks up....

[ken hatch]

I think my real question wouldn't be "How do you guys get Aldi chisels to hold up?" but instead would be why bother. Yes I know they are cheap and P.S. posted they are a bargain. Of the two statements I expect only one is correct. There are too many good chisels available for reasonable prices both used and new to waste time on a set of "grocery store" or even big box chisels for any use other than giving to the S.O. so she/he can chip concrete.

Life and shop time is too short. Of course YMMV.

ken

[steven c newman]

Really...........? Whatever.

IF I remember correctly..I never changed the bevel on either of the two sets I have. Just honed them up, and put them to work. How hard is that to do? Must not have been too hard, since I was able to do it..

I also have a few Witherby and Butcher chisels.....Aldi's one are working the same as the 100 year old ones I have.

IF someone wants to spend a lot of cash on a few high priced, "latest & greatest" chisels......something about a fool and his money....?

YMMV

[steven c newman]

Throw the plastic edge protector away
backs will need a little work to flatten the first inch...rest is just along for the ride.
I left the bevels as is.....never changed them in the 2+ years and 1+ year old chisel. I honed to 2500 grit, then stropped. Couldn't care less about a mirror shine, as you can polish a DULL chisel to mirror like surface, and it still won't cut warm butter.

Why are people chopping with these? Then wondering WHY the edge rolls? I rarely hit mine,,,in fact I can pare tenons by putting my chin to work. Sighting down my nose, as I push with my chin.

I use the strop ( or the pants leg of my jeans) as I work.....usually a couple swipes will do. Nothing hard about that.

I think the factory grind was around 25 degrees? Been keeping mine around that. Heavy chopping? I have Firmer chisels and Mortise chisels for that sort of work.

The only chipping I have had, was when one rolled off the bench, and I didn't try to catch it ( didn't want to be stabbed..) so it hit the concrete floor..took a while to repair that.

Also, have yet to use a grinder on any of these Aldi's chisels....YMMV.

[Jim Koepke]

All I am trying to figure out is how to get these set up so the edges don't fold (I haven't had any trouble with these chipping)... I just want them to "wear normally" - and then I can get a better feeling for how the actual "edge life" stacks up....

The old standby on this is to work the bevel back 1/16" or so to get to the good metal.

You may have purchased a set that somehow got through without being hardened. It can happen. Though that seems like an odd long shot.

Do you have any way to evaluate the hardness? Some can determine this by the sparks produced while grinding. Others will run a file across the surface.

My guess is you do not live in my area since there are no Aldi stores near here. You may live close to another member who would be willing to get together and help. Heck, if you live anywhere near Steven Newman he would likely be happy to show you how to get your chisels to perform.

As Steven said, some of the cheap chisels today will perform just as well as the higher priced tools. My experience has been the only real difference is in the finished quality, the type of handle and maybe the overall feel in the hand.

For me, my shop time always seems to be more pleasant with tools that feel good in my hand compared to working with something with the feel of an old dried out corn cob in my hands.

Other folks may find a corn cob handle they have made themselves brings more warm fuzzy feelings to the job.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

For those that like to "improve" tools, maybe you want to replace the handles on the Aldi's (I don't own any, but I suspect, as a tang chisel, they are similar to other modern maker tang chisels, such as Narex). If you are going to use the chisel for paring, make a significantly longer handle (and don't beat on the handle!).

[lowell holmes]

Asking a woodworker what chisels he likes best is like asking a teenage boy if he prefers blondes or brunets.

[Bob Leistner]

I have been using a set of Aldi chisels now for the past two years. I have made new handles for all of the Aldis and many of my old chisel from Elm in a tapered hex shape. I cannot say that the Aldi's or any of my older chisels are better or worse than the other. They all perform as well as I want them to and I use them everyday. For the record, I have Greenlee, Witherby, Marple,I. Sorby, and Stanleys to compare to. The other part of my day I use Snapon, Mac, Devillbis,Ingersoll Rand, Hutchins, Craftsman, Williams,Bonney, Cornwall, and probably another half dozen quality brand tools, so I know a good tool when I use it. Bottom line is if it does what you need it to do, use it and don't worry about the brand name.

[John C Cox]

I think my real question wouldn't be "How do you guys get Aldi chisels to hold up?" but instead would be why bother. Yes I know they are cheap and P.S. posted they are a bargain. Of the two statements I expect only one is correct. There are too many good chisels available for reasonable prices both used and new to waste time on a set of "grocery store" or even big box chisels for any use other than giving to the S.O. so she/he can chip concrete.

Life and shop time is too short. Of course YMMV.

ken

The thing for me is...
If you just read the DIN spec listed on the chisel - it lists a 1% Carbon steel that is approximately W1 as the "Reference" material for all the tests.... (Yes.. I read it.... I am a nerd that way...)

Cold drawn W1 bar stock is super cheap (so far as tool steel goes).. It's fairly straight forward so far as forging and heat treating are concerned.. And so assuming they just used their equivalent of W1 - it would make a chisel that's going to be about as good as regular "Decent chisels".. And that's where Paul says they shake out according to his use....

On the other hand - if they lost the script and decided to do something like 5160 to avoid trouble with breaking when you pry on them... They may take an edge - but will dull quickly in use because there's just not enough Carbon in the steel.... Bla bla bla...

And that's what I am trying to decipher...

I did note Paul specifically called out a 30 degree bevel in the Hymn of Praise to all things Aldi - I will try the same.... I just gotta get back in the shop to see how they run against Stanley Fat Max and Marples now that I ground them back ~1/4"...

[Steve Kaminska]

I've got a set of Marples blue handle chisels, and a set of Aldis. I bought the Marples chisels first, but I could not get them sharp. So I bought the Aldis in order to learn how to sharpen properly. I found the Aldis very easy to sharpen but they also need to be sharpened quite frequently (about every 6-8 hours of use as best I can estimate.)

Now that I can sharpen a chisel properly, I intend to bring the Marples chisels into regular use, but I haven't put the Aldis down long enough to do this.

[John C Cox]

So I ran my 30 degree Aldi vs my new production Marples with a 30 degree microbevel... The task was paring cabinet plywood...

They both came out with the same amount of wood pared (14 grams) - but they felt "different" doing it.....

The Aldi lightly rolled the edge fairly early on - but just kept cutting with a surprisingly low force. It would pare end grain spruce but it was kinda rough.. It finally got dull and took too much force to push.

The Marples didn't roll the edge - it just cut... The cut was a lot more smooth - but it eventually dulled... It would cut end grain spruce without tracks - but it was evident that it was dull... And finally took too much force to push...

So there it is on Test Phase 1. They both ended up with me stopping the test at the same amount of wood cut..

[Tony Zaffuto]

Asking a woodworker what chisels he likes best is like asking a teenage boy if he prefers blondes or brunets.

Age don't enter the picture-at 65, I still can't answer!

[Frederick Skelly]

Age don't enter the picture-at 65, I still can't answer!

Hey Tony, I prefer them BOTH! :)
Fred

[Tony Zaffuto]

Hey Tony, I prefer them BOTH! :)
Fred

Don't forget the gingers also deserve consideration!

[Phillip Mitchell]

No disrespect to anyone who loves these Aldi chisels, but I got a set a year or so back and don't find them to be any better or notable than any other box store chisels. Sharpen up fine, but don't really hold an edge for very long and the handles are terrible to me. I tried to use them as beater chisels for a while, but now they just sit in a drawer because I'm not a fan of handles like they have.

For me, life's too short to fuss with chisels you don't really love and that don't get the job done well for you.

[ken hatch]

The thing for me is...
If you just read the DIN spec listed on the chisel - it lists a 1% Carbon steel that is approximately W1 as the "Reference" material for all the tests.... (Yes.. I read it.... I am a nerd that way...)

Cold drawn W1 bar stock is super cheap (so far as tool steel goes).. It's fairly straight forward so far as forging and heat treating are concerned.. And so assuming they just used their equivalent of W1 - it would make a chisel that's going to be about as good as regular "Decent chisels".. And that's where Paul says they shake out according to his use....

On the other hand - if they lost the script and decided to do something like 5160 to avoid trouble with breaking when you pry on them... They may take an edge - but will dull quickly in use because there's just not enough Carbon in the steel.... Bla bla bla...

And that's what I am trying to decipher...

I did note Paul specifically called out a 30 degree bevel in the Hymn of Praise to all things Aldi - I will try the same.... I just gotta get back in the shop to see how they run against Stanley Fat Max and Marples now that I ground them back ~1/4"...

John,

As with most thing in woodworking or life....Whatever blows your skirt. You can look around my shop and see I'm not "tool adverse" but I'd much rather spend my time putting metal to wood with the goal of making something than mucking around questionable chisels or such. As always YMMV.

ken

P.S. There is one truism in life that pretty much works....You don't always get what you pay for but one thing is sure if you don't pay for it, you do not get it.

[ken hatch]

I've got a set of Marples blue handle chisels, and a set of Aldis. I bought the Marples chisels first, but I could not get them sharp. So I bought the Aldis in order to learn how to sharpen properly. I found the Aldis very easy to sharpen but they also need to be sharpened quite frequently (about every 6-8 hours of use as best I can estimate.)

Now that I can sharpen a chisel properly, I intend to bring the Marples chisels into regular use, but I haven't put the Aldis down long enough to do this.

Steve,

I've started several replies and deleted all because they all sounded snarky. This is not meant to be snarky but, There is a reason my sharpening bench is directly to the left, a step or two, off the working end of my main bench.

385316

I work with pretty good chisels, mostly White Paper Japanese, pre-war Marples, and Ashly Iles and when working I often re-sharpen several times a day. That is the reason the sharpening bench is placed so close to the working area of the main bench. Now it could be my technique is poor and I misuse my chisels or maybe the wood I work with (mostly domestic hardwood) is hard on edges but whatever I've never gone 6 to 8 hours between sharpening.

ken

[Bob Leistner]

I was pondering these comments last night and then went out to my shop and measured my user Aldi's off of a new set I have. The users are now anywhere from an 1/8" shorter to 5/16" shorter from use and sharpening.Maybe once you get past that first 1/16 they are hardened well enough. I have been trying lately to use the I. Sorby's evenly with the Aldi's, to try and determine if the Aldi's are softer than old chisels.So far, I can not see much difference. I choose the Sorby's because they were my go-to chisels and they have the same handles on all of them that I made for the Aldi's. I figured that would eliminate one more possible prejudice against the Aldi's. So far, I'm thinking this is a "Chevy vs Ford" kinda argument. I wish I had more exacting means to decide by, but using an open mind and layman antics, I'm satisfied so far with the Aldi's that they can be serviceable tools. I will say that I can afford any tool made but that is not the point. I do not like to spend money for the sake of spending money. I get my thrills from maximum value.

[John C Cox]

So - perhaps I got to the bottom of what Paul is saying.... According to my test - I got about the same amount of actual work out of the Aldi vs the Marples before they wouldn't cut right and required resharpening... And the Marples beat out a lot of other chisels I tried in other tests.. 1 Marples costs more than 2 sets of Aldi's.... So yes - they do work...and you can get a lot of work out of them... I suppose that makes them a very good value...

Do they feel the same doing the work? Not by a long shot.... The Marples had a much smoother feeling like the edge was simply wearing as it worked - while the Aldi was cutting like the edge was slightly rolled but still keen enough to cut... The finish left on the end grain Spruce was a lot better with the Marples - but the cut took about the same force... And I have to admit that's a lot better than many chisels I have tried - which simply gave up and wouldn't cut end grain spruce any better than a dull screwdriver after 1 or 2 passes on plywood..

Conclusion - Paul is not lying. They do perform... They don't feel elegant and slick in hand when cutting - but they deliver.. And I do have to admit that they cut a lot more wood before they gave up than several other chisels I tried out...

They won't be my go-to, but they can stay...

[Frederick Skelly]

I've never had a chance to try an Ashley Isles, an LN, an LV or a Japanese chisel. So I dont know how much better it can be. But comparing my $8 Aldi's or my $40 Marple Blue Handles to High End chisels reminds me of the sign I once saw in an auto body repair shop. It said:

"WE DO $300 PAINT JOBS AND $3,000 PAINT JOBS. DON'T PAY FOR ONE AND EXPECT THE OTHER."

I like my cheap chisels. And as long as they do good work for me, I'll keep using them. But let's not kid ourselves - they're $8. I dont expect them to be as fancy/comfortable/long lasting/etc as a more expensive brand.

Fred

[Simon MacGowen]

"WE DO $300 PAINT JOBS AND $3,000 PAINT JOBS. DON'T PAY FOR ONE AND EXPECT THE OTHER."

I like my cheap chisels. And as long as they do good work for me, I'll keep using them. But let's not kid ourselves - they're $8. I dont expect them to be as fancy/comfortable/long lasting/etc as a more expensive brand.

Fred

Good point.

Suffice to say a $100 chisel in the hands of an average woodworker may not deliver the same results of a $8 one that is in Paul's.

A Narex in my hands performs just as well as others like AI, PMV11 and Maples I also have.

Simon

[James Pallas]

I bought some a while back for 4.99 just to see what the hype was all about. I flattened the backs about an inch or so, not much work. Worked the bevel enough to sharpen. Worked okay. I've used them some not a lot. They are metric and I use my chisels as gauge blocks often, I know not the best of practices. The 1/4chisel is very close to 5/16 and the 1/2 is close to 9/16. That's handy at times. They work well enough that I don't feel bad about spending a fin on them.
Jim

[Todd Stock]

...or ones that you cannot afford. That's the point...four useful chisels that run a few bucks more than a millennials's Starbucks Moocher Slackachino. Hone at 35 degrees and sharpen often using el cheapo stones or SS...gets the youngsters in the shop door and out of mom's basement without a huge investment.

[Jim Koepke]

The 1/4chisel is very close to 5/16 and the 1/2 is close to 9/16. That's handy at times. They work well enough that I don't feel bad about spending a fin on them.

They are likely an 8mm and a 14mm.

The Europeans and others are as bad converting to inch sizes as we are at using metric. Often it is usually the other way around, the 1/4" is really a 6mm and the 1/2" is a 12mm.

jtk

[Mike Brady]

There may be a difference in the Aldi chisels of various vintages here in the U.S. My experience is with the first ones available here; probably about 2014. Going through boxes of seldom used tools I found an Aldi set still in the packaging that were dated 2016. I suspect these two production vintages were made by different factories as almost everything is different in the components and execution: The wood is different in the handles, 2014's being a seemingly harder ash or hickory (or whatever passes for those in China. The grind is different at the tang-to-blade taper. The later vintage blade backs were pronounced concave. whereas the 2014's flattened easily. The 2016's also were lacquered throughout. Ok those are the visual differences. In general, the later chisels were , in my opinion, "cheaper" looking although both sold for under $8.00. Both sets were stamped "Aldi Batavia, Illinois", my current town of residence. Their offices are about a half a mile away. Now to a surprising difference in performance.

I use a combination of diamond plates and ceramic stones to sharpen tool steel. The Aldis sharpen readily at 25 degrees with this combination, followed by a leather strop with green compound. I chop a lot of dovetails in poplar and various medium hardwoods. The older Aldis would fold early on in the cutting of the joints. A few passes on the strop could revive them enough to continue working for a while. The 2016 versions sharpened as easily as the earlier ones (except for the concave backs), but seem to outlast the former ones in chopping waste that I have reduced with a fret saw, which is my normal method of waste removal. So my very unscientific method leads me to believe that the steel in the new chisels is marginally better suited to chopping (driven with a carver's mallet) than the 2014 versions. I do have to disagree with the poster who questioned hammer blows to these chisels. What good is a bench chisel that won't withstand a hammer tap? These chisels are definitely not made or configured for delicate paring. I'll now close the turret hatch and wait for incoming. :rolleyes:

[Frederick Skelly]

These chisels are definitely not made or configured for delicate paring. I'll now close the turret hatch and wait for incoming. :rolleyes:

Hi Mike.
Mine are at 22*. They pare well enough. I haven't noticed a difference between the way they pare and my Narex Paring Chisels, anyway.
Fred

[Mike Brady]

My comment about the configuration for paring refers more the the profile of the chisel itself rather than to the bevel angle. The Aldis are rather too short and cylindrical to allow the blade to be presented flat to the wood for paring. Paring chisels have longer blades and smaller diameter handles at the hosel to allow the blade to cut at a lower level. Your shallow bevel also aids that. Aldi chisels have relative short blades compared to their handle length. Buck Bros. chisels, back in the day. had very long and thin blades on their parers that allow paring in the middle of a work-piece. They are are a treat to pare with. Lie-Nielsen flirted with the idea of making long paring chisels but backed away from the idea.

[Jim Koepke]

Buck Bros. chisels, back in the day. had very long and thin blades on their parers that allow paring in the middle of a work-piece. They are are a treat to pare with.

Agreed, my BB's are enjoyed every time they are employed.

jtk

[John C Cox]

There may be a difference in the Aldi chisels of various vintages here in the U.S.

The older Aldis would fold early on in the cutting of the joints. A few passes on the strop could revive them enough to continue working for a while. The 2016 versions sharpened as easily as the earlier ones (except for the concave backs), but seem to outlast the former ones in chopping waste that I have reduced with a fret saw, which is my normal method of waste removal.

What you have seen could very easily be simple industrial process variation within their spec - rather than an intentional change in their materials... The edges of my Late 2017 Vintage Aldi chisels behave more like your description of the 2014 set...

For example process wise - a chisel that comes out of the same heat treatment process batch a bit harder will most likely outlast the one that comes out of the batch a bit softer in terms of edge holding.... But - the trade off is that the harder chisels are more likely to chip under the mallet or crack when pried upon... There is no free lunch in this regard.

[John C Cox]

So... Another update to this....

2 more plywood trials...
An old hard Sheffield made cast steel firmer chisel went 4.5x the amount of wood vs the new Aldi and Marples before I finally gave up and quit.... The edge was failing by chipping out - but it was still very sharp and would still effectively pare both plywood and oak...

Just on a whim - I made a chisel out of a new Chinese file to try it out. I tempered it back a bit to help reduce the probability it would snap in half during my trial. It went 2x the Aldi/Marples on plywood.....

So.. This points to these less expensive chisels really don't hold up as well as perhaps some other chisels might.....

I haven't run my Pfeil or Two Cherries to see where they shake out.. And I don't have any Japanese or PM-V11 chisels to test - though I have a suspicion they would run up there with the old cast steel chisel...

[steven c newman]

Paring end grain of a pine 4 x 4..
385969
Slick took care of the worst..
385970
From this to..
385971
Saw cut was a tad out of square...pared it back with the Aldi's chisel....no sign of any "damage" to the edge....

[Thomas Bittner]

So I have bought and still own and use all kinds of chisels from Lie Nielsen, Narex, Craftsman,
Two Cherries, Crown,P&W and some old chisels that I have no idea what they are or I forgot the name of them.
I find that the inexpensive tools are mostly less money because of the fit and finish of the tool not because the steel is to soft or hard. Once I tune a tool for the work and material I’m dealing with all the above chisels work just fine.
Now I like and follow Paul Sellers but his mission is to get more people into woodworking using a minamalist mentality. He doesn’t want people to not get involved in the hobby because they think they need a $400 set of chisels. He also doesn’t delve into bevel angles for different types of woods and grains, I think he doesn’t even realize that he is changing his tools for the material he is using. He just does it without thinking about it, once you get your chisel working then a 60 second touch up keeps you working.
I own three different types of planes for making grooves yet I have not been successful in making any of those tools work for me. It’s me, not the planes. My dad used to say “ a good craftsman can make the tool work, so don’t blame your tools”.

[John C Cox]

Confirmed what the "problem" is that's been driving me nuts....

Shallow hardening steel... My Aldi chisels are harder at the surface than further down... The deeper I sharpen into their backs - the softer they get.....

As a result - my aggressive prep apparently sanded through the harder material on the surface and into softer material in the core...

This is a heat treatment/design problem on their end.... So for me at least - the end of the road for me. Marples will be my go-to cheap chisels.

[Pat Barry]

Confirmed what the "problem" is that's been driving me nuts....

Shallow hardening steel... My Aldi chisels are harder at the surface than further down... The deeper I sharpen into their backs - the softer they get.....

As a result - my aggressive prep apparently sanded through the harder material on the surface and into softer material in the core...

This is a heat treatment/design problem on their end.... So for me at least - the end of the road for me. Marples will be my go-to cheap chisels.
Hi John, how did you confirm this hardening issue? Do you have a hardness tester? If not, what is your reference? Thanks

[John C Cox]

A proper "hardness tester" doesn't really give reliable results when there is a thin, harder surface layer over a softer core... The machine basically reads "bulk hardness".... I am told there are some micro-hardness and surface hardness testers which might - but we didn't have access to any of those. It was indeterminate...

It was super obvious with a sharpening stone and with a file - as the same effort on the coarse DMT plate all of a sudden dug in and hogged off a huge cut where it was slow and tedious prior... With a file - you could see a gouge where the metal was softer transition into a teeny shallow scratch where it was harder....

[steven c newman]

More of a case of "over-kill".....not sure why one needs to be so aggressive with the sharpening tools....

[Jim Koepke]

This is a heat treatment/design problem on their end....

Why not try to reheat it yourself?

Might turn out to be a worthwhile experiment for some homemade custom chisels.

jtk

[John C Cox]

More of a case of "over-kill".....not sure why one needs to be so aggressive with the sharpening tools....

Too much of a good thing, right. ;) ;).

The thing is - for almost all my other chisels - aggressive prep makes them cut better... Or at least my confirmation bias tells me that... ;). These not so much. Perhaps this is the perfect chisel in that it appears to benefit from "Benign neglect". ;).

[John C Cox]

Why not try to reheat it yourself?

Might turn out to be a worthwhile experiment for some homemade custom chisels.

jtk

that's an interesting idea. If the carbon content is there - maybe a good brine quench would sort it out...

[Pat Barry]

that's an interesting idea. If the carbon content is there - maybe a good brine quench would sort it out...
Why bother. They are basically junk when you buy them. I think better to spend time doing something useful.

[John C Cox]

So.. Not being the sort to leave well enough alone - I gave rehardening one a crack.... It didn't want to behave nicely like a good high carbon steel does... It needed to get a lot hotter than I am used to and then it took quenching really really hard (a small bucket full of crushed ice wet down by brine + dish soap + jet dry) to get it to harden up to where a file would mostly skate... The W1 I have fooled with in the past didn't need any of that.... I had no trouble getting it screaming hard without any of these gyrations....

Yeah, so probably the best course of action is to just say this trial has come to an end...

Aldi chisels are what they are.
You can get a lot of work out of them.
But what they are is what you can get out of them....
It's not a bad thing - it's just what it is.. And if it works for you - awesome.

[Pete Taran]

My wife shops at Aldi and has been looking for the fabled chisels for years. None to be had. If anyone has a set they can part with, I’d love to do some hardness testing to see what I can learn about them. Part of the testing would be destructive. Based on comments in this thread, I’d mill a slot into the back and test the interior hardness as well as on the surface.

[John C Cox]

I would really be interested in a test of retained austenite.... Based on their behavior - there may be no shortage......

[Frederick Skelly]

My wife shops at Aldi and has been looking for the fabled chisels for years. None to be had. If anyone has a set they can part with, I’d love to do some hardness testing to see what I can learn about them. Part of the testing would be destructive. Based on comments in this thread, I’d mill a slot into the back and test the interior hardness as well as on the surface.

Pete,
They are only available around Father's Day from what I've seen.
Fred

[Mike Baker 2]

My wife shops at Aldi and has been looking for the fabled chisels for years. None to be had. If anyone has a set they can part with, I’d love to do some hardness testing to see what I can learn about them. Part of the testing would be destructive. Based on comments in this thread, I’d mill a slot into the back and test the interior hardness as well as on the surface.
I have a set I've never opened. If I can get them to fit in a flat rate box, I'll be glad to donate them to be tested.
FWIW, I have another set, and use them pretty regularly. I'm a newby to traditional wood working, but I get good service from them. I am not a good judge of edge retention, ie; judging by how long they keep an edge, as I really don't have a lot to compare to. An old Marples, old 750 and a couple of Fulton vintage, but mine all stay at 25 degrees except the Marples, which is at 30. I cannot tell any difference in the actual working time between them, but they all sharpen up really fast with a good stropping.
Shoot me a PM and I'll get them in the mail to you.

Incidentally, no they are not very pretty chisels. But they are long compared to my others, and they are thinner and lighter, which I tend to like most times.

[steven c newman]

Aldi's ads come out on wednesdays.....check out the ads the week before fathers Day.....in fact, start two weeks before. Be there when the sale starts,,otherwise the 12 packages will be gone.

[Larry Frank]

It would be interesting to know the chemical composition of the Aldi chisels.

Personally, I would never heat treat something well above the desired temperature and then severely quench. You are asking for bitterness issues and potential fracture issues. The high Temperatures can cause blown grain and poor properties. Using the chisel with no tempering is risking problems. However, without the chemical composition all of the conjecture is just that.

As to retained austenite, I really doubt that it is a problem. Typically, more of an issue in high carbon and higher alloy steels.

[Frederick Skelly]

Today I made the dumb mistake of using an Aldi chisel bevelled at 20* to square up (chop) the shoulder of a tenon. Shouldn't have used a mallet with a bevel angle that low, no matter how lightly I tapped - even 6-8 taps chipped the edge badly. Some of it might have been the steel, but I havent seen chipping before, when I used them only for paring. I gotta believe the bevel angle was the main culprit.

Fred

[steven c newman]

Next time, just rest your chin on the end of the chisel, and use that to "pare" the tenon with.....that is how I do mine.

[Tony Zaffuto]

It would be interesting to know the chemical composition of the Aldi chisels.

Personally, I would never heat treat something well above the desired temperature and then severely quench. You are asking for bitterness issues and potential fracture issues. The high Temperatures can cause blown grain and poor properties. Using the chisel with no tempering is risking problems. However, without the chemical composition all of the conjecture is just that.

As to retained austenite, I really doubt that it is a problem. Typically, more of an issue in high carbon and higher alloy steels.

I don't have a set of the Aldi chisels, but if we have an old time machinist here that does, he/she may be able to provide some guidance by taking one to a grinding wheel and "reading" the sparks, for a basic understanding of the steel's composition.

[Larry Frank]

Spark testing may give you a basic understanding of carbon but not much else. The other elements make a big difference such as Mn, Cr and others you will not know.

I worked in a steel mill and we had professional spark testers and am very familiar with what they can and cannot do. Most spark testers were replaced with portable spectrometers that give pretty good results. If I was still working, it would be so easy to get a full analysis but retirement is great.

[Frederick Skelly]

Next time, just rest your chin on the end of the chisel, and use that to "pare" the tenon with.....that is how I do mine.

Good tip. Thank you Steve.

[John C Cox]

Arc spark machines do quite a good job when they are properly maintained.... Not an inexpensive proposition...

I did grind on it a bit to look at the sparks... It doesn't spark like an old chisel or a decent file..... It definately has "less" carbon - but how much? No idea...

Larry, I didn't start off with a high temperature and very aggressive hard quench - that's where I ended up.... I tried non-magntic + oil quench - nothing useful.. Then non-magnetic and a gentle brine... Better but very shallow. Non-magnetic + harder quench - better... Then finally quite a bit hotter + very hard quench... Seemed to mostly thru-harden ... Based on the results with different files I own - I would estimate Rc64 range..

By that point - it was badly warped and had a small crack in it.... I broke it to look inside... Very fine grained crystal structure even with all my ham-fisted abuse.... Very much unlike a Harbor Freight chisel - which had grains that looked like beach sand... So that's a huge positive... The grain structure was beautiful on the Aldi chisel...

[Pat Barry]

Next time, just rest your chin on the end of the chisel, and use that to "pare" the tenon with.....that is how I do mine.
But keep your tongue in your mouth just in case you slip and bite it off. LOL

[Larry Frank]

I cannot tell simply from a fracture surface what the microstructure is and I have spent a considerable amount of time looking at fracture surfaces and microstructure.

It is so difficult and almost impossible to perform the proper heat treating without knowing the chemistry. If one wants to play with the steel and see what they get, that is great. Just use a bit of caution as improper heat treat can make steel very brittle.

[John C Cox]

Does Paul get paid a royalty when he recommends Aldi chisels?

"Paul is paid a small royalty on products that he has presented or written."

I found this on his disclaimers here: https://paulsellers.com/paul-sellers-disclaimer/

[Mike Brady]

Does Paul get paid a royalty when he recommends Aldi chisels?

"Paul is paid a small royalty on products that he has presented or written."

I found this on his disclaimers here: https://paulsellers.com/paul-sellers-disclaimer/

I did not read the disclaimer to mean that Paul Sellers is compensated for his various mentions of Aldi chisels. He probably should be, but I doubt that he has a formal relationship with them. That said, I think he has done a disservice to almost every premium tool maker out there by oversimplifying the differences between hundred-year-old carpenter tools and today's better hand tools. I believe he does that to attract new students to his instructional products.

[John C Cox]

See - that's the thing for me too.... I would have no issues recommending them as a good set to get somebody going with... But after trying out both old good tools and new good tools - I also can't agree that these Aldi chisels are the equal of either modern first quality chisels or the best of the past...

[Frederick Skelly]

"We do $300 paint jobs and $3000 paint jobs. Don't pay for one and expect the other."
- sign in a local autobody shop.

The Aldi's are worth at least the $8 I paid for the set of four. I like them for what I use them for - paring. Just because they've been "hyped by Paul" doesn't mean they're the "bees knees" or that they are in a league with old <insert favorite old chisel maker here> or today's premium tools. Most people here know better. But it's still fun to discuss them and see what kind of work folks get out of them. I also like the Aldi's because they constantly remind me that woodworking doesn't have to be expensive - look at what Steve Newman (and others) do with his Aldi's and weekly garage sale finds. :)

Aside: I doubt that Sellers got a royalty from Aldi to hype a set of $8 chisels that they sell for 2 weeks each year. Doesn't seem like there's much of a business case there.

Fred

[Mike Baker 2]

The Aldi chisels work well for me. They do everything I need them to.
Having said that, I'm a newby still. Over time, and as I grow as a hand tool woodworker, I might begin to see they lack in some way. But until that happens, I can't justify spending $15, $30, or even more per chisel to upgrade. I have 4 vintage chisels for finer work, and if I find I need an upgrade, I'll do it then.
Until then, I'd rather take the Aldi chisels and use them to get some woodworking done, and learn. There's plenty of time.

[John C Cox]

"We do $300 paint jobs and $3000 paint jobs. Don't pay for one and expect the other."
- sign in a local autobody shop.

The Aldi's are worth at least the $8 I paid for the set of four. I like them for what I use them for - paring. Just because they've been "hyped by Paul" doesn't mean they're the "bees knees" or that they are in a league with old <insert favorite old chisel maker here> or today's premium tools. Most people here know better. But it's still fun to discuss them and see what kind of work folks get out of them. I also like the Aldi's because they constantly remind me that woodworking doesn't have to be expensive - look at what Steve Newman (and others) do with his Aldi's and weekly garage sale finds. :)

Aside: I doubt that Sellers got a royalty from Aldi to hype a set of $8 chisels that they sell for 2 weeks each year. Doesn't seem like there's much of a business case there.

Fred

The thing is - the note in his "Disclaimers" couches the possibility that he does or did.... And that would explain to me why he so strongly recommend Aldi chisels as superior to everything else on the market when they aren't...

Sure - I will totally accept that they are better than everything in their price range.. Better than anything I could find new retail up to maybe 3x the price.... And I will certainly accept that they will do a lot of good work - and they are fantastic student/class bench chisels because students abuse, damage, and lose them frequently.... That is completely fair and accurate...

But they aren't better than current Stanley Bailey or Marples blue handle - which can be had for around 5x the price..... And they aren't better than Ashley Iles or Two Cherries at 10x the price...

The thing that disappoints me is that I did waste a lot of time on them because Paul recommended them so strongly... My thinking is that if Paul tested them and actually found them equal to new Ashley Iles/Two Cherries or old cast Ward/Marples - then obviously the steel must be pretty decent. If I don't see the same - what am I doing wrong?

Then I find that he is likely receiving compensation of some kind and it becomes clear... I am not doing anything wrong - the results of my own testing was accurate... You don't get a $3,000 paint job for $300...

Thanks

[Pete Taran]

John,

I agree with you 100%. I started following Sellers on his blog when I saw him so highly touted here on SMC. In my estimation, while he does know what he is doing and can offer some good advice for the noob woodworker, there is definitely a financial interest with which you have to view his opinions through. I hate that kind of approach for just the reason you point out. Is he recommending it because it's good, or because he is making a buck on it? Seems like in this case it's the latter. Self interest typically always rules the day, sadly.

[steven c newman]

Even when selling saws...

[Rick Potter]

This is my first foray into the neander world, and it looks just like the power tool world when we discuss Sawstop, Festool, or Craftsman. With two bad rotator cuffs, I rarely use chisels, but this thread leaves me with one burning question I must ask.

When paring, and using your chin to push the chisel, which chin should I use?


PS: Also seems appropriate: As fellow creeker Sam Layton taught me, "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian".

[Mike Baker 2]

The one with the bone in it; the other three are too soft.

[Jim Koepke]

When paring, and using your chin to push the chisel, which chin should I use?

If you ask me, none of them. Why risk an embarrassing mishap? "Paring" to me isn't trying to remove big fat shaving. That is a job for chopping. When doing dovetail work there are usually two or more chisels of the same size on the bench. One for chopping and another for paring. If there are more, they are likely skew chisels.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Didn't need to "chop" these

386886386887
YMMV.....trimmed some end grain....

There are some out there, that use their shoulder to push with.....mine are too sore...

[Pete Taran]

With trepidation and genuine collegiality I must point out when you work with pine and spruce, you could pare or chop with a dulled butterknife. Try it with hard maple and see how that works out. :)

[Mike Baker 2]

With trepidation and genuine collegiality I must point out when you work with pine and spruce, you could pare or chop with a dulled butterknife. Try it with hard maple and see how that works out. :)
Yes, but the fibers of the end grain collapse on one another and it leaves an ugly mess. To pare end grain in pine and leave a smooth surface, your chisel had better be very sharp. IMHO/IME. YMMV.

[steven c newman]

With trepidation and genuine collegiality I must point out when you work with pine and spruce, you could pare or chop with a dulled butterknife. Try it with hard maple and see how that works out. :)

I do...with Maple..Ash...Walnut, White Oak..and Cherry......and have used it for a long time......I like to be able to sight down the chisel, and follow the line I am paring to....try it sometime.....IF you dare.


There are some out there that will push with their shoulders.....mine are too sore nowadays....might be why they had such long handles on their chisels...

[Warren West]

Why bother. They are basically junk when you buy them. I think better to spend time doing something useful.

This. Not agreeing with the quality or lack of with respect to the aldi chisels, but I wholeheartedly agree with not spending time/effort on fixing very low cost items. That time and effort would be better spent going to a store somewhere or clicking a buy button on a higher quality item. Write them off and move on.

[John C Cox]

This. Not agreeing with the quality or lack of with respect to the aldi chisels, but I wholeheartedly agree with not spending time/effort on fixing very low cost items. That time and effort would be better spent going to a store somewhere or clicking a buy button on a higher quality item. Write them off and move on.

The assumption here seems to be that the steel and heat treatment is equivalent, and the differences are fit, finish, and ergonomics.

I don't believe that is true. I believe the steel itself is inferior and that leads to the degraded performance.

If the steel itself was the same as a 1st quality chisel - then I would expect it to behave like it was the same. Instead the steel didn't harden properly using routines which would have hardened typical high carbon steels used in chisels.... It only hardened once I used routines typical for lower carbon steels.

Different people report getting very different results.. Some like Steven and Paul Sellers report getting very good performance, and some people report poor performance like me... I have to assume that probably means some are made of decent steel and some are not... I ran into the same thing with Harbor Freight chisels - where some seemed pretty decent and others horrible.

I am tired of spinning the wheel on these.... Time to spin the wheel on old cast steel chisels instead. ;) ;)..

[John Schtrumpf]

... There are some out there that will push with their shoulders...
I'm one of those, although I wouldn't quite call it paring. I also grab the chisel high, so that I am mainly pushing on the top of my fist.

[John C Cox]

So to circle back around on this again....

I have since tried out several UK made chisels from the 1960's - 1990's... :(

While my trials are certainly neither exhaustive nor all encompassing - the Aldi chisels do in fact compare very favorably and in some cases exceed the performance of many UK made chisels I have tried from this era....

Why is that? I don't know - but those chisels simply don't hold up in my hands like a new production Chinese Marples, Two Cherries, Ashley Iles, Stanley Fat Max, or old pre-war cast steel chisel... Granted - Stanley, Ashley Iles, and Two Cherries were all operating in that time period.. Stanley chisels from the 1980's seem to be good enough... And a lot of people report liking Two Cherries of that vintage... Marples not so much...

So I suppose in that regard - I have to give Sir Paul a pass... If somebody here in the USA like myself went out and got a bunch of what's sold today as "Old chisels" - he would likely conclude that Aldi chisels were a fantastic bargain and were even superior on the balance....

[Mike Baker 2]

I have very limited experience, and IMO am just beginning to use a chisel like it is meant to be used. I started out with the Stanley Fat Max. Used them for about a year and a half in guitar repair. Replaced a couple of tops, and used them to carve the braces, and for whatever small tasks I needed them for. The only negative for me was weight and balance; they were (are) heavy, and the balance for me is too far back toward the handle.
Then I became active on SMC, wanting to learn hand tool wood working, and saw several threads that for lack of a better term, contained posts that viewed them unfavorably.
Having no money, but looking to try something with a wooden handle, I bought a set of Harbor Freight chisels. They sharpened up easily, and with a chrome oxide charged strop beside the bench, they stayed sharp, even when cutting mortises with a mallet through 2x4 lumber I had joined to make 4x4 legs for my bench, splitting tenons, etc.
You can see my using them in my bench build videos.
About that time, I bought an old Marples 1" at the flea market, and used it as well. I honestly did not see a difference as far as edge holding, but there sure was a difference in feel, balance and the attention to detail in the way the chisel was manufactured.
But I kept reading posts on SMC and thinking, "My chisels are junk". I got a bit of chisel fever, and started thinking about purchasing a set of Narex, which seem to be everyone's go to recommendation for a beginner. Or the newer Stanley Sweetheart.
Shortly after, I found a couple of old Fulton chisels in 6mm and 12mm, a Stanley 750 in 1/2", and then purchased the Aldis.
For me, I can't really tell a difference in the performance of these chisels, with the exception of the Harbor Freight, which honestly has a whole lot more to do with how they feel in the hand than anything else.
My most used chisels are 1", 1/2"(or 12mm), and 1/4" (or 6mm). I have vintage chisels in these ranges, and until I can actually notice a difference in performance , I can't justify purchasing any more chisels, unless I find more vintage chisels at a good price.
The Aldis, at least for me, are comparable in performance, although they are not made as well as far as fit and finish go. I can live with that. I modified the handles to suit me, though most of that is aesthetics. They are light, longer than my other chisels, the blades are thinner, which make them feel more nimble, for lack of a better word.
Right now, they work really well for me.
I'd love a set of the Ashley Ilse, as they look like something I could really enjoy using. But I can find nowhere to purchase singly, and will likely be several years before I have the money to buy an entire set. By then they will most likely not be available.
But, my gas for chisels was killed by comparing the different chisels I do have, and finding that, for me, they all perform pretty well alike.
The Aldis are used for rougher work, my vintage for finer things.

[Jim Koepke]

But, my gas for chisels was killed by comparing the different chisels I do have, and finding that, for me, they all perform pretty well alike.
The Aldis are used for rougher work, my vintage for finer things.

Hi Mike,

Have you tried different bevel angles with your various chisels?

My Buck Brothers chisels are more nimble, thinner, than my Witherby's. This makes them especially good for paring dovetails. Most of my Buck Bros. chisels have a bevel of 15 - 20º.

My Witherby beveled shaft chisels are mostly long firmer chisels and are beveled at 25 - 30º. These are often used for cleaning out hand cut dados and other chopping types of work.

There are also a bunch of odd ball chisels that came with others in box lot deals. These are good for anything you don't want to use your better chisels to do.

Sounds like you have a similar way of sorting your chisels.

jtk

[Mike Baker 2]

Hi, Jim,
I tried a 35 degree bevel angle on the Marples, but I did not like the way in which it changed how you present the chisel to the wood, ie; I had to lift the handle of the chisel slightly higher to start the cut, if that makes sense? IMO it changed how the chisel felt, and was not to my liking. But for chopping mortises, I doubt I'd notice that.
All that might change, soon. I'm in the middle of an acoustic guitar build and plan to cut the binding channels with a gramil and chisel. For the most part I'm only working in soft woods. It will be interesting to see how much working with sapele affects their performance.

[John C Cox]

Sapele and other mahogany sort of things, and woods in that general density category (like cherry, birch, and soft maple) are actually easier for me to cut cleanly without edge issues than end grain spruce... Stuff like mahogany will still cut fine when spruce just mushes and crumbles.

[Jim Koepke]

Sapele and other mahogany sort of things, and woods in that general density category (like cherry, birch, and soft maple) are actually easier for me to cut cleanly without edge issues than end grain spruce... Stuff like mahogany will still cut fine when spruce just mushes and crumbles.

Try cedar if you want to see something crumble.

For me the answer tends to be a low angle bevel honed ten times sharper than my mother's tongue when she caught me with my hand in the cookie jar.

jtk

[Pete Taran]

Mike Baker 2 was kind enough to send me a set of Aldi chisels. I tested them with my Wilson Hardness Tester and am ready to report the findings.

For those who don't know, a Hardness Tester takes a diamond indenter and presses it into the metal to be tested. The depth to which the indenter sinks into the metal correlates directly to the hardness. It happens in two phases. The first phase is where the minor load is placed on the sample. Essentially, this presses the indenter into the material to be tested with a small amount of fixed force. In the case of the Rockwell C Scale, that amount of force is 10 Kg. Once the minor load is applied, the dial is adjusted as shown to exactly line up with the pointer as can be seen in the photo attached.

Once that is complete, the major load is applied. For the Rockwell C test, this is 150 kg. Clearly, there is not 150 kg that is applied as exact weight, but due to leverage, that is the amount of force equivalent. A lever is thrown and a platform is released which gradually and uniformly applies the major load. The needles moves quickly and when it stops moving, the major load is removed and the Rockwell hardness is read directly from the appropriate scale.

The machine I use is a twin tester and has both the major and superficial scales on it. I took three readings and averaged the result. All were taken on the back of the chisel near the cutting edge. I also tested some of my chisels to give comparison values. The accuracy was checked prior to use by testing the hardness with a 61.5 C test block. Accuracy was confirmed to be withing +/- 0.5 C.

The results:

Aldi Chisels

24 mm 59.0 C
18 mm 60.5 C
13 mm 59.0 C
8 mm 59.5 C

1900 era Buck Cast Steel Chisels: 60.5 C

1980 era Stanley Chisels 60.0 C

1950 era Marples Registered Mortise Chisels 61.5 C

1990 era Sorby Boxwood handles Chisels 60.0 C

The conclusion I draw is, that as a matter of fact, the Aldi chisels are softer than other chisels I own, but not significantly so. The range is 1.5 C, which is not a bad amount of variation considering the pedigree of these chisels. I'm surprised that it is that good actually.

I think the major problems with these chisels is the steel. The ones I tested are etched with "Chrome Vanadium". Most realize that Chrome Vandium is a great steel for making tools that need to be tough, like wrenches and pliers, but it is not known for it's fantastic edge holding abilities. Standard Chrome Vanadium, which is produced under ASTM A-231 has a specified hardness range of 41-55 C, with only .5% carbon. A medium carbon content variant, SAE 6150 is used for springs, and a high content variant SAE 6195 is typically used for ball and roller bearings. Cutting edge tools are not on the list I reviewed.

I suspect this is the reason for the performance most are seeing. I hope this adds some facts to the discussion about the fabled Aldi Chisels.

Regards,

Pete
387182387183387184

[Mike Baker 2]

Pete, thanks for testing these. It is nice to get some facts about the metal these chisels are made of, if only to test their hardness. At least in hardness they are in line with the specs Narex give for their Classic Bevel Edge chisels, though the steel is different.
The Stanley Sweethearts are listed as Chrome Vanadium, Rc 57-62, so that kind of tells me I was correct in regard to not seeing a significant performance advantage to upgrading unless I go well beyond the standard "starter type" chisels recommended here pricewise. I have also read a few posts/threads about disappointment RE edge holding on the Stanleys, so....similar steels listed.
So I'll save my pennies and upgrade to much better at some later point.
Thanks again, Pete.

[John C Cox]

Be careful of judging different brand's chisels quality (or lack thereof) by their hardness alone. While the correct hardness is certainly an important factor in cutting performance - testing shows only weak correlation between the cutting performance of different brand's chisels and their hardness... What that means is that while "on average over a very large number of samples" harder chisels tend to cut better ... That same testing shows often enough that one brand's chisels running Rc59 out cutting another brand's offering which has a hardness of Rc 61...

so for example in my hands - a BORG Buck Bro's at Rc 56-57 out cut my Aldi chisels (presumably running Rc 59-60) when both were honed at 30 degrees...

[Pete Taran]

John,

Appreciate the perspective, but the test was to confirm or deny the theory that the chisels were abnormally soft. I don't think anyone would dispute if they were 50 C that might be the culprit. Since they are nearly as hard as most other common chisels, the only result one can draw is that the steel is the culprit. All the chisels I tested that I own hold a great edge and dull over time as one would expect with use, suggesting that the steel is a better grade than whatever the Chinese use in their Aldi specials.

[steven c newman]

Sometimes, it is more about HOW a chisel is used, AND maintained.

So...which was harder steel...Disston, or..Atkins?

[John C Cox]

John,

Appreciate the perspective, but the test was to confirm or deny the theory that the chisels were abnormally soft. I don't think anyone would dispute if they were 50 C that might be the culprit. Since they are nearly as hard as most other common chisels, the only result one can draw is that the steel is the culprit. All the chisels I tested that I own hold a great edge and dull over time as one would expect with use, suggesting that the steel is a better grade than whatever the Chinese use in their Aldi specials.

Did you find any evidence that the ones you got were softer in the middle? I seem to be the only one who has reported this - so I may have gotten a dud.... It happens - even with very good chisels.... I got a Pfeil around Christmas time that was mush... It's replacement was fine.

[James Pallas]

Pete, Thank you for your test. I have a set of Aldi chisels from several years back. I don't use them much. I often use my chisels as gauge blocks and the Aldis are odd size so they can mess me up. I have used them enough that I don't see a great difference in day to day use. I was using the 1/4 inch, 6mm or whatever it's supposed to be. As it happens it's a dead on 5/16 which I needed today. I think the handles are copies of the Spainish Mifer chisels. I have a set of those from the 1970s. Don't use those much either, metric. The Aldis are okay for a five dollar bill.
Jim

[steven c newman]

And the countdown begins....check Aldi's ad flier today and next wednesday.....be prepared to act quickly.....as they sell only one box full of these sets....and they do not restock them.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Just checked the local Aldi's, all kinds of other tools, BUT NO CHISELS!

I suppose I'll just stick with my AI's, Witherby's and other assorted chisels, never experiencing the magic nature of the Aldi's!

[Jim Koepke]

Just checked the local Aldi's, all kinds of other tools, BUT NO CHISELS!

I suppose I'll just stick with my AI's, Witherby's and other assorted chisels, never experiencing the magic nature of the Aldi's!

Just because it isn't in the ad doesn't mean they haven't put the stock in the bins.

jtk

[ken hatch]

Just checked the local Aldi's, all kinds of other tools, BUT NO CHISELS!

I suppose I'll just stick with my AI's, Witherby's and other assorted chisels, never experiencing the magic nature of the Aldi's!

Tony,

I'm not sure how you will survive with only those chisels. Ill tell you what, because I'm such a kind and generous man, I'l be happy to run down a set of Aldi chisels and trade you for your AI's or Witherby's even up. It doesn't get much better than that :D.

ken

[John C Cox]

Just checked the local Aldi's, all kinds of other tools, BUT NO CHISELS!

I suppose I'll just stick with my AI's, Witherby's and other assorted chisels, never experiencing the magic nature of the Aldi's!

If you want to feel the magic - you can send me some Witherby's and I will send you my 3 remaining Aldi's. ;) ;).

the main Aldi magic I experience is how quickly their sharp edge disappears...

[John C Cox]

A question for the metallurgists out there....
Assume a 1+% C low alloy steel.
Q&T in brine. We expect some level of retained austenite out of the quench....
387357

Now - if it were real W1 or W2 - that stuff is (apparently) alloyed slightly to improve hardening behavior in a water quench.... But what if the Chinese analog stuff is not... By this graph - it could have ~20% retained austenite if it's not heat treated properly.

How would we finish the conversion of this Austenite to Martensite? If my reading is correct - simply tempering to the correct temperature should do it (but that would likely soften it somewhat).. Another option is sub-zero treatment if you want it hard + low retained austenite....

I may try baking one of these in my oven at progressively higher temps - up to 475F to see if the edge holds up any better....

[Pete Taran]

John,

Your brain is working too hard. The chisels are clearly marked CHROME VANADIUM. That means that it has lots of Chrome and Vanadium in the steel along with lots of other stuff. If you really want to play with steel, buy some real O-1 and get to work. As other have suggested, wasting time on a $7 set of chisels is probably not going to yield a vintage Witherby or Buck when you are done...

[Warren Mickley]

John,

Your brain is working too hard. The chisels are clearly marked CHROME VANADIUM. That means that it has lots of Chrome and Vanadium in the steel along with lots of other stuff. If you really want to play with steel, buy some real O-1 and get to work. As other have suggested, wasting time on a $7 set of chisels is probably not going to yield a vintage Witherby or Buck when you are done...

A generation ago tool makers were bragging about Chrome Vanadium steel the way they brag about A-2 today. Primus planes had chrome vanadium steel irons. Maybe Hirsch or Two Cherries did also. I bought a Record plane iron in 1983 that is proudly marked CHROME VANADIUM STEEL. It is not as nice as 19th century cast steel, but serviceable nonetheless. About like older Marples or Sorby. O-1 steel has Chrome and Vanadium in it; I would not be so sure that these are not all O1 steel. Manufacturers have a long history of hiding the steel they use. "finest Sheffield steel" "Swedish steel", etc.

In the 1984 Lee Valley is their "best" chisel (and their most popular),. "The chrome-vanadium steel blades hardened to Rc 58-62 hold an edge better than a standard carbon steel blade."

[steven c newman]

Have Buck Brother, have Butcher, have Witherby, one of the Mortise chisels is from Japan, another from New Haven Edge Tool Co. And, two sets of Aldi's...

Somewhere in the drawer, there are a few from Germany, British Zone. Maybe an EC Jennings. Just rehabbed a Stanley made Defiance, from the 1930s

Mainly I merely USE my chisels, since that is what they are here for, to be used. Money that others might spend on 1-3 new chisels....I spend on wood. What good is a high priced tool, without the wood to use it on? Maybe sit in some sort of Trophy Case? Mine are for work...and get used a lot. Could not care less what steel they were made from, or where...as long as they do the work I need done, they stay..otherwise they will get tossed. Simple as that, no "magic" involved..just plain work, is all.

[Pete Taran]

Warren,

A nice post, but merely pointing out that inferring that Aldi Chisels _might_ be W1 or W2 and susceptible to some exotic heat treats is probably a waste of time when the Chinese folks who made them proudly etched "Chrome Vanadium" on the blade. Just sayin....

[steven c newman]

By the same person that has never even USED them....BTW.

[Pat Barry]

I find my Aldi chisels are great for carpentry. I can use them without concern for prying up and wedging apart boards. I don't need to worry about hitting a stray nail. I can shave a little off a 2x4 to improve a fit or make a notch as long as I don't hit a knot. They work fine when used in this manner and were a great value. The smaller size works good for opening painr cans also. The handles don't like being struck with a hammer though, thats too much for them. The edge holds up pretty well for this type of use. Glad i bought them.

[steven c newman]

387369
Chopping dovetails in Maple?
387370
Or, maybe...
387371
Chopping pins, in Hard Maple..
387372
Doing half-blind dovetails in Ash?
387373
Chopping mortises in Walnut wasn't too hard to do...

[kent wardecke]

Well it's Father's day and i haven't been able to find the Aldi chisels .When do they usually go on sale? The curiosity is killing me

[steven c newman]

Fathers' Day is the 17th.....try on about the Wednesday before....

Come on up here Saturday, and try a few of them out....

[John C Cox]

My opinion is that the "Chrome Vanadium" is a marketing statement - not a metallurgy statement.... These are super cheap tools - which generally means they are made out what they can get - not expensive, carefully formulated proprietary alloy..

Almost all modern recycled steel contains some Chrome and Vanadium - and so this could legally be stated about almost any modern steel made of recycled material.... Because it all has some amount of Cr and V in it.....

[Pete Taran]

My opinion is that the "Chrome Vanadium" is a marketing statement - not a metallurgy statement....

Call me old fashioned, but my opinion is that the steel is what it says it is. In absence of any sort of real metallurgical analysis, maybe that is the best bet...

[Jim Koepke]

I find my Aldi chisels are great for carpentry. I can use them without concern for prying up and wedging apart boards. I don't need to worry about hitting a stray nail. I can shave a little off a 2x4 to improve a fit or make a notch as long as I don't hit a knot. They work fine when used in this manner and were a great value. The smaller size works good for opening painr cans also. The handles don't like being struck with a hammer though, thats too much for them. The edge holds up pretty well for this type of use. Glad i bought them.

If they are doing the job you assign to them, what more could a person ask?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Like to see him do that, with them L-N Chisels......PVM11 Paint can opener....LOL.

[Warren West]

Different people report getting very different results.. Some like Steven and Paul Sellers report getting very good performance, and some people report poor performance like me... I have to assume that probably means some are made of decent steel and some are not... I ran into the same thing with Harbor Freight chisels - where some seemed pretty decent and others horrible.

I am tired of spinning the wheel on these.... Time to spin the wheel on old cast steel chisels instead. ;) ;)..

I agree that there is inconsistency. Usually the case with the lowest cost tools of any sort. If you want new, reasonably priced quality tools you could do worse than these Stubai http://www.diefenbacher.com/Chiselink.htm (scroll down)

The problem with buying old tools is some are duds and there is no way to tell until you try them. The good part for the buyer cum seller is that no one else can tell either and back they go on ebay. Churn churn churn. Something to consider.

[Jim Koepke]

The problem with buying old tools is some are duds and there is no way to tell until you try them. The good part for the buyer cum seller is that no one else can tell either and back they go on ebay. Churn churn churn. Something to consider.

With a good eye one can reduce the number of duds that come your way. Over my time of buying there were some practices of particular sellers which caused me to not bid on their offerings. Many of my chisels were found simply by keeping my eyes open and stopping when possible at estate, yard, garage sales and even various businesses that might carry used tools. Talk to people about what you are trying to find. Be careful with this. One of my neighbors heard of my interest in old planes and brought one home for me from an auction. It was a type 17 #5. It only cost me $10. It is still in my shop. One day it will be sold, but it is touchy on the lateral adjuster, it makes me a bit hesitant about selling it.

jtk

[John C Cox]

The trouble for me is that I seem to be running about 50/50 on old cast steel sheffield octagon bolster chisels because of the steel.. That's the difference between ok/adequate ones and the ones that are very good. And so that turns $10 used chisels into $20 chisels... Still not a bad deal for the good ones... But not nearly as fantastic a deal as if they were 100% good at $4 a piece at the flea market.

I am not counting pitted or humped backs in the 50%.. This seems to be 50% where the steel seems to be very good vs OK...

[James Pallas]

I've used the same paint can opener for over 30 years, one of the good ones. Two for one, paint can on one end and your favorite malt beverage on the other. Both ends have had about equal use. The steel is still in good shape. I would guess that if you used a pmv 11 chisel to open paint cans it would do the job for 4 or 5 hundred years without serious damage. The Aldi ones might only go a hundred years or so. Why doesn't someone test that out and report back?:)
Jim

[John C Cox]

I personally find my Snap On or Wiha screwdrivers are much more effective on paint cans than expensive chisels..... The bevel is too fat with my typical 25 degree primary/30 degree secondary..... Perhaps a 20 degree sharpened chisel would work better on paint cans...

[Tony Zaffuto]

Would not hurt to post brands or characteristics of vintage chisels to lok for or avoid. For example, John Cox mention the octagon bolster: this is usually an indicator of a better vintage chisel. Names also hep, with chisels such as Witherby or Ward desirable. I prefer to buy at tool sales, flea markets, etc., to examine in purchase and have pretty much given up Ebay. One of my last purchases was a Witherby socket. What was delivered was not. I contacted the seller and he told me he must have made a mistake and sent me the wrong chisel. He said I could mail it back for a refund, or keep what I paid for. I kept it, as it was around $20 or so. The chisel was a Dunlap and was plated! The plating prevented flattening or sharpening. I honestly don't know where that chisel resides today, except that I gave it away, with instructions as to its uselessness.

[ken hatch]

Would not hurt to post brands or characteristics of vintage chisels to lok for or avoid. For example, John Cox mention the octagon bolster: this is usually an indicator of a better vintage chisel. Names also hep, with chisels such as Witherby or Ward desirable. I prefer to buy at tool sales, flea markets, etc., to examine in purchase and have pretty much given up Ebay. One of my last purchases was a Witherby socket. What was delivered was not. I contacted the seller and he told me he must have made a mistake and sent me the wrong chisel. He said I could mail it back for a refund, or keep what I paid for. I kept it, as it was around $20 or so. The chisel was a Dunlap and was plated! The plating prevented flattening or sharpening. I honestly don't know where that chisel resides today, except that I gave it away, with instructions as to its uselessness.

Tony,

Yep the "burn rate" with eBay can be pretty high even when you know what to look for. The major problem after getting something useless or not as advertised from eBay is shipping cost, most of the time it is just cheaper to keep her.

The good news is for the most part I have my tool jones under control but when the tool demons demand attention I've found several good sellers to trust, a couple or three are in the UK. Much more time effective and I expect cheaper in the long run. Bottom line depends on what you want to do with your shop time, fart around with old cheap and/or new cheap tools or buy good quality tools from known sellers and get on with making things. Both are valid, it is just what blows your skirt.

BTW, I just feed the tool demon. There is a beautiful set of pre-WWII Marples paring chisels on the way from UK. I need more chisels like the well known hole in the head but these were too nice to pass.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

One of my last purchases was a Witherby socket. What was delivered was not. I contacted the seller and he told me he must have made a mistake and sent me the wrong chisel. He said I could mail it back for a refund, or keep what I paid for.

You paid for something else! My response would not have been as nice as yours.

When a seller makes such a mistake, they need to put in the effort to make it good.

jtk

[John C Cox]

My problem is that even when I think I mostly know what to look for - I still end up with with 50% that don't hold up particularly better than Aldi chisels...

I suppose that's fine when you are collecting them... And in that case having a complete set in the best condition is much more important than how each one performs on wood... I totally get that. There's nothing wrong with that... Collecting is a perfectly valid pursuit... But it's not what I am doing...

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel. ;)

[ken hatch]

My problem is that even when I think I mostly know what to look for - I still end up with with 50% that don't hold up particularly better than Aldi chisels...

I suppose that's fine when you are collecting them... And in that case having a complete set in the best condition is much more important than how each one performs on wood... I totally get that. There's nothing wrong with that... Collecting is a perfectly valid pursuit... But it's not what I am doing...

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel. ;)

John,

You didn't post what kind of "...really good 3/4" chisel". Is it Western, new, turn of the last Century or earlier, Japanese, Japanese push, #1 White, #2 White, Blue, HSS, bevel edge, firmer, Butt, Paring/Pattern Makers, O1, A2, PM-v11, mystery steel, and so on. I'm sure there are many I missed. :) BTW, each can have a place in the shop and not be collector chisels.

One of my most used chisel, one that stays on the work bench, never in one of the chisel racks, is a Woodriver mystery steel 3/4" crank neck. Go figure.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken; is this the set of paring chisels you purchased from the u.k.



Stewie,

Not the same ones. The ones I purchased are flat necked pre WWII chisels. They look to be in about the same condition as those if the photos do not lie.

ken

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have a set of four Woodriver butt style chisels that take and hold an edge as well as any of my other tools.

[steven c newman]

Said things used to be said about.."Made in Japan" and Made in Taiwan......did they not.....how xeno of you.....

[steven c newman]

Have four chisels sitting at my desk, right now...one called Muller and marked as a 22mm. Another has JAPAN stamped on the back, near the oval bolster, steel ferrel..and is also stamped as a Drop forged Steel (unable to read the line under it) and marked as 1/2

Then there are two with a blue and silver label on the handles. They are stamped as Germany BRIT. Zone Drop forged. Both of these and the JAPAN chisel have a leather washer on the mallet end of their handles...Muller has a thin steel ring. I doubt IF any of these four has any of that "Chinese Steel" people here are so afraid of....

Give me a couple minutes, to get a few pictures, IF you need to see them.

[steven c newman]

Pictures.
387511387512387513387514387515387516
Don't think there is any trace of that "Chinese Steel" in these....British Zone, Germany, right after WW2. Muller is now a part of a French company. JAPAN may have been post-WW2....

[Jim Koepke]

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel. ;)

My old Buck Brothers chisels work fine for me. Not sure of the current product, but Craftsman Studios carries them and they seem a decent deal:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/Buck-Bros-Paring-Chisels-p/c007311-base.htm

387519

The 3/4" is listed as in stock.

The bench chisels are lower priced:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/Buck-Bros-Bench-Chisels-p/c007301-base.htm?1=1&CartID=0

387520

Not sure how the "Mfg's Lifetime Warrantee" works, but sounds like if they aren't up to snuff you can send them back.

jtk

[John C Cox]

Those current production Buck Bro's chisels are simply wooden handled versions of the ones available in Orange BORG.... They can be quite good if you get the occasional hard one... But the normal ones running Rc 56-57 are in the same ballpark as Aldi.. I have one particular example of this very Perfection by mistake! A 1" Buck O BORG which came in a smidge harder than a Two Cherries and it really does hold up and cut very well...

Another test of a different vintage chisel.... I think I finally dug out a good 3/4" model...
A "Mr. punch" marked I Sorby ran 30 grams of birch plywood before end grain spruce started crumbling a bit... It would still pare plywood easily... Double over the Aldi seemed like a fine place to stop and resharpen... Though I could have gone a lot longer...

The Aldi was dead at 14 grams - it wouldn't pare anything anymore...

So I now have 2 vintage chisels tested which will easily over double the performance of the Aldi and the current Marples.. I still haven't got around to testing my AI, Two Cherries, or Pfeil to see how they do, though...

The thing is - there is no magic... It's like any other tools made for professionals who worked to a production rate for a living. If the tools wouldn't keep up with the rate - nobody bought them...

[Jim Koepke]

Those current production Buck Bro's chisels are simply wooden handled versions of the ones available in Orange BORG

The Orange BORG chisels are made in the USA?

My tendency is to usually just walk on by without looking. Guess on my next visit some time will be spent looking. The Buck Brothers plane blades they used to carry for $3 were decent, my recollection is they were from Mexico or China.

jtk

[John C Cox]

Yep - the yellow handle BORG Buck Bro's chisels are still made in the USA.. There are orange handle ones from China..

[John C Cox]

So another update on the almost never ending saga of the Aldi chisels that wouldn't hold up...

TLDR: I re-tempered thd one I tested before (not rehardened) and it over doubled the wood cutting performance of the chisel. It also changed from rolling edges to lightly chipping. Apparently mine aren't sufficiently tempered to convert retained austenite.

----

My last hypothesis was improper tempering leading to excessive retained austenite - creating a mushy edge even though bulk hardness should be adequate...

So to test that - I knocked the blade out of it's handle and tempered at 480F for 1 hour... Cooled off, resharpened, and tested it on plywood. This is the same one I tested the 1st time - different than the one I rehardened...

This time - it went 28 grams of plywood before dulling to the point where it crumbles spruce paring. But it would still cut plywood - though not as well as the old I Sorby..
For reference - the first try on this one was a completely dead edge at 14 grams

So re-tempering it to convert retained austenite (over) doubled the cutting life of the edge. The interesting thing is that the bulk hardness is the same as well as I can tell..

The other interesting thing is that the failure mode is completely different now - it lightly chipped instead of rolling the edge. That's consistent with "Martensite embrittlement"... I am going to use it some more to see if it continues after a few sharpenings.

If the other 2 Aldi chisels respond the same (they are in the oven now) - I will revise my opinion of Aldi chisels from "Junk" to "A kit that you can get good chisels out of"...

Thanks

[Pat Barry]

So another update on the almost never ending saga of the Aldi chisels that wouldn't hold up...

TLDR: I re-tempered thd one I tested before (not rehardened) and it over doubled the wood cutting performance of the chisel. It also changed from rolling edges to lightly chipping. Apparently mine aren't sufficiently tempered to convert retained austenite.

----

My last hypothesis was improper tempering leading to excessive retained austenite - creating a mushy edge even though bulk hardness should be adequate...

So to test that - I knocked the blade out of it's handle and tempered at 480F for 1 hour... Cooled off, resharpened, and tested it on plywood. This is the same one I tested the 1st time - different than the one I rehardened...

This time - it went 28 grams of plywood before dulling to the point where it crumbles spruce paring. But it would still cut plywood - though not as well as the old I Sorby..
For reference - the first try on this one was a completely dead edge at 14 grams

So re-tempering it to convert retained austenite (over) doubled the cutting life of the edge. The interesting thing is that the bulk hardness is the same as well as I can tell..

The other interesting thing is that the failure mode is completely different now - it lightly chipped instead of rolling the edge. That's consistent with "Martensite embrittlement"... I am going to use it some more to see if it continues after a few sharpenings.

If the other 2 Aldi chisels respond the same (they are in the oven now) - I will revise my opinion of Aldi chisels from "Junk" to "A kit that you can get good chisels out of"...

Thanks
Curious what you mean by 28 grams vs 14 grams in plywood?

[John C Cox]

I pared off end grain plywood. That's the weight of the plywood shavings.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I pared off end grain plywood. That's the weight of the plywood shavings.

John,

Out of curiosity, what is your background?

Thx,

T.Z.

[Doug Dawson]

What's the secret sauce on these Aldi chisels guys? spill the beans... What are your secrets?

You mean, like, from the grocery store? Spill the beans, like cleanup on aisle 4? They may have secret sauce, but they don't sell dishwasher detergent, and they charge for a basket, so I never went back.

[John C Cox]

Out of curiosity, what is your background?

I was going to say I was an Elementary school teacher, a professional artist, or a florist... But nobody would believe it anyway... ;) ;).

So then - is engineering more plausible? ;). ....

[Jim Koepke]

I was going to say I was an Elementary school teacher, a professional artist, or a florist... But nobody would believe it anyway... ;) ;).

So then - is engineering more plausible? ;). ....

My reply to such a question used to be it was easier to mention what wasn't on my resumé than to list all the places who have employed me. :D

jtk

[steven c newman]

"Jack of all Trades, master of none"?

[James Pallas]

I pared off end grain plywood. That's the weight of the plywood shavings.
John, it would be interesting for you to say what conclusions you can draw from the weight of shavings. I can follow distances planed and thickness of shavings. You could in fact take three shavings and get the same weight as fifty shavings. The iron or blade would be cutting through the same length of glue (you said you used plywood) with each stroke for instance. Please help me understand what conclusions you can draw based on weight of shaving.
Jim

[John C Cox]

Yep... And if you are an engineer long enough - you end up doing all of it....

Anyway - assuming my test isn't a fluke... What would cause this sort of behavior? It's got to be some sort of microstructure change because the bulk hardness didn't change enough for me to tell.... But now - the edge wears down instead of rolling and they cut at least 2x as long...

But this may also explain why some folks get good results out of them and others don't.... Perhaps the tempering was correct on some and not on mine... I am assuming that professional heat treaters with the right equipment and knowledge/experience with the alloy could get a lot better results than I do in the kitchen oven....

I am going to try these out some more - but I (provisionally) like them a whole lot more now...

[Tony Zaffuto]

Not an engineer, though I employ several! Not a metallurgist, though I employ one. Not a teacher, artist or florist either, just the poor, dumb owner of a powder metal part manufacturing plant.

My opinion is based on raw material available in our industry, called "re-mill", which simply is comprised of the tailings of powders from presses. The composition can have high contents of nickel, or copper or none at all! It can have low carbon or high carbon, or none at all. I would suspect the raw material used in most very low cost chisels, does not have tight specifications, leading to the variability issue. Also, as Aldi's is a grocery chain, with these chisels generaly showing around Father's Day, I would suspect most are impulse gift buys, with few purchased by serious users. I would bet that few ever touch wood.

[Jim Koepke]

"Jack of all Trades, master of none"?

Open and fast to learn a new job when needed, able to have mastered a few.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Aldi's sells a lot more than just food items....maybe a trip inside would be in order.

I can't say for sure....but, I think they went on sale today.....one carton per store....

387689
Hmmm, yep, these do get used...a lot. these are my user chisels.. YMMV

[Pat Barry]

...they went on sale today... one carton per store...

I think they must be trying to create a run on the stores. They get some folks in forums talking the chisels up and next thing you know they sell a few chisels and maybe a bag or two of generic potato chips. The question is, is mr newman getting reimbursed for his endorsements?

[steven c newman]

No, he is NOT....

[ken hatch]

I heard on the internet that Andy Kaufman faked his death and is now selling chisels for a supermarket chain.

[steven c newman]

More Fake News, eh? maybe you two should ask the OP.....I have work to do...
.387691
Right after I get this mess swept up....

[John C Cox]

Not an engineer, though I employ several! Not a metallurgist, though I employ one. Not a teacher, artist or florist either, just the poor, dumb owner of a powder metal part manufacturing plant.

My opinion is based on raw material available in our industry, called "re-mill", which simply is comprised of the tailings of powders from presses. The composition can have high contents of nickel, or copper or none at all! It can have low carbon or high carbon, or none at all. I would suspect the raw material used in most very low cost chisels, does not have tight specifications, leading to the variability issue. Also, as Aldi's is a grocery chain, with these chisels generaly showing around Father's Day, I would suspect most are impulse gift buys, with few purchased by serious users. I would bet that few ever touch wood.

Very cool stuff there... Are you doing MIM or compression pressing and sintering?

I did a quick bit of math on the Aldi chisels... I have no idea how they can make anything to a spec for that price.
$7/4 = $1.25/chisel retail price.

Assume a standard 7:1 export price structure = $0.18/finished chisel packaged FOB chisel factory.
Assume 10% materials cost - and all the materials run $0.018/chisel... Blade, hoops, handle, paint, cardboard, lacquer, plastic protector, plastic bubble, and staples... Let's be generous and say the blade is 20% of the total material cost... That means the steel in the blade costs $0.0036... Or $1 worth of their steel gets you 277.8blades.... 4 oz each chisel blade = 8000/ton.... A little math gives us $28.80/ton of high carbon alloy tool steel. YIKES!!! You can get more for scrap in the USA....

Even if Aldi did almost all the leg work and it was an impossibly low 2:1 import multiplier - that means $100/ton of high carbon tool steel.... I still don't see it....

[Jim Koepke]

Right after I get this mess swept up....

If only my messes could be so neat.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

Presing and sintering, primarily multi-level parts made from carbong steel, nikel steel and copper infiltrated. About 70% of our parts go into new cars. If you have bought a new car in recent years, you have parts in it we have made. If you drive a F150, in the tailgate, there are 8 parts we make, for the torsion bar system.

My gut feeling, as I have said, is the steel is basically re-melted, imported from wherever, scrap that could have anything in it., hence the variability, with some superb and others, bleh!

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I did a quick bit of math on the Aldi chisels... I have no idea how they can make anything to a spec for that price.
$7/4 = $1.25/chisel retail price.


Was in Walmart a month ago to get clothesline. Cost a dollar. More clothespins than I am ever likely to need were three dollars. Picked up a pair of cheap ($.98) flip-flops. Can’t send a letter to China for a dollar, but somehow the market figured out how to not only get flip flops made, but here for less than that.

Called capitalism.

Good essay out there called “I, Pencil.” All about the incredible complexity involved in making something as deceptively simple as a pencil and how it happens without central planning, direction, or a single mind who can understand all of the individual skills involved. Modern (shorter and more readable) update on many of the same basic ideas laid out in Wealth of Nations.

[John C Cox]

John, it would be interesting for you to say what conclusions you can draw from the weight of shavings. I can follow distances planed and thickness of shavings. You could in fact take three shavings and get the same weight as fifty shavings. The iron or blade would be cutting through the same length of glue (you said you used plywood) with each stroke for instance. Please help me understand what conclusions you can draw based on weight of shaving.
Jim

Here's some nice bedtime reading.
https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/rp/rp_so146.pdf

It says that the cutting force increases more or less linear with the chip thickness.. So assuming typical friction - the friction wear would be proportional to the chip thickness assuming the chip thicknesses aren't too far out of bounds. At that point - you start splitting out the wood rather than slicing.

But it's pretty tough to actually push cut too-thick end grain shavings in plywood.... The cut just stops because of the alternating grain layers...

I suppose you could try it and see how it goes... For example - can you shave off 2x as much wood with a chisel (assuming a similar sharpening/edge prep starting from a freshly honed and deburred edge) by increasing or decreasing the chip thickness assuming you control the cut so it's not splitting or tearing out...

My own experience with hand planes is that you really mostly save time because of taking 10x or 20x fewer shavings when you take nice thick shavings rather than whisper thin ones... You still need to resharpen at the end.

[Larry Frank]

I do not know where people get the idea that remelted steel has bad properties and variability. Steel is a very recycled product and a lot of it is made from scrap melted in an electric arc furnace. Steel is carefully tested to meet chemical requirements and composition adjusted. If there is high variability it is because of poor quality control and not because it was remelted. Many parts of cars such as springs, gears, axles and lots of other parts are made from scrap melted in an electric arc furnace.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm not sure anyone alluded "bad properties", but rather variability. It's not poor quality control, but more of limited or no quality control. There are some elements that can be problematic to the end recycled product, such as silicon, phosporus and a host of others that can contirbute to less than desireable results, such as the product being prone to corrosion or worse.

[Larry Frank]

I guess my metallurgy and steelmaking is different. In an electric arc furnace the silicon is oxidized out during the process and is essentially zero when you are ready to tap the heat. Phosphorus is not usually a problem because most scrap has fairly low levels. The exceptions are with grades made for machining and some other special grades.

Uncertain about the corrosion comment and what elements make it more prone to corrosion. Yes, you can add elements like chrome and nickel to make steel more corrosion resistant.

I made steel for a lot of years and there is always some mis-information going around about steel, how it is made and properties.

[John C Cox]

I would think that remelting the steel would make it too expensive.

It would make a lot more sense to me if I found out that they were made from forged drops or seconds out of somebody's chisel making process.... Often as not - there are plenty of drops from setups or whatever other hiccup that comes along... Parts falling out of the machine, too many made for an order, training a new operator, or whatever... And having a secondary market for stuff that's not necessarily 1st quality is a good thing. It helps recoup some of the sunk cost.... And then the stuff gets sold somewhere rather than being carted out in a dump bin to be remelted....

I also noted that these were sort of odd size for metric... For example 8mm instead of 6mm.. 18mm instead of 19mm, etc.. Perhaps that's the sizes you get if you want the boo-boo's ground off - so grind down a 12mm to 8mm and viola - dings and bad grind marks are gone....

Branded 1st quality China made chisels runs 10x the price (retail). No doubt there's more in those markup - but still....

[Kees Heiden]

Larry,

Good to see you commenting on this thread. I always wondered, how do they "purify" the scrap metal? Say, you want a high carbon steel with hardly any alloys, how do you get rid of chromium, vanadium etc that is inevitable in scrap? Or are those concentrations in the usual scrap steel very low anyway?

[Tony Zaffuto]

In my business (powder metallurgy), scrap is handled multiple ways: melted/atomized, then additional elements added for certain properties, or melted/atomized as is, or pulverized, sieved & reused and pulverized, sieved with additional elements added. From people I know in the steel industry (was actually out with two last evening, that produce and supply wrought material and not powder metal), the Pacific Rim uses similar methods to America, with the end result directly correlated with the quality desired in the end product, which correlates with the accepted quality level ($$$) of the purchaser of the resulting steel.

To John, steel is melted, used, scrapped, re-melted many, many times.

[Kees Heiden]

Yeah, adding alloys ain't too difficult, but removing them! I googled a bit and it seems they have some processes to remove valuable alloys, but mostly because those are very valuable and not to make pure iron. i doubt there is much market for pure iron these days.

[John C Cox]

Kees.

I am sure it's possible to purify recycled steel to get something along the lines of Hitachi White. It may be easier though to start off with good quality clean ore... If you look - W1 is basically that with a bit higher allowance for P or S... No doubt some of the proprietary versions of W1 would qualify as "high purity high carbon steel"...

The thing is demand... The demand for tool steels seems to be more in alloyed steels that are far more forgiving in high volume industrial processes fed by unskilled labor.. So for example - adding a pinch of V or Cr or whatever to help retain a finer grain structure, a more forgiving window for heat treatment, dimensional changes, easier manufacturability of parts, or whatever...

[Pat Barry]

Where is Patrick when we need him so much? This topic is right in his wheelhouse.

[steven c newman]

Maybe he went with Gilligan, on a three hour Tour.....
387799
Still using mine.....

[John C Cox]

Larry is (or was) an actual professional metallurgist... I believe Patrick is a software developer...

I was hoping we could goad Larry into offering up some opinion on what is going on with these chisels... But so far he has resisted strongly....

[Larry Frank]

My resistance is actually a lack of information available. If we knew the chemistry and microstructure, we could make informed comments. Without a good lab investigation, it is just conjecture or guess as to what is going on.

[Frederick Skelly]

Where is Patrick when we need him so much? This topic is right in his wheelhouse.

+1. Pat would have a good time with this thread!

[John C Cox]

My resistance is actually a lack of information available. If we knew the chemistry and microstructure, we could make informed comments. Without a good lab investigation, it is just conjecture or guess as to what is going on.

Know anybody with an XRF we could get to shoot a few chisels? The one at work is calibrated for lead....

[ken hatch]

I find it head shaking funny to think this thread on super market chisels has run almost a month and a half. I have to admit I've found it like a train wreck and have been unable to look away. I know whatever blows your skirt, YMMV, and all that rot but get real $2 USD super market chisels ain't going to work as well as chisels from makers with their name and reputation on the line. Some times you get what you pay for but a good rule of life is if it is too good to be true it's too good to be true.

ken

[steven c newman]

There was a line by Major Hogan, in "Sharpe's Rifles"........" being snobbed by Snobs".....

Oh well....I'll just keep using mine...

[John C Cox]

I find it head shaking funny to think this thread on super market chisels has run almost a month and a half. I have to admit I've found it like a train wreck and have been unable to look away. I know whatever blows your skirt, YMMV, and all that rot but get real $2 USD super market chisels ain't going to work as well as chisels from makers with their name and reputation on the line. Some times you get what you pay for but a good rule of life is if it is too good to be true it's too good to be true.

ken

I am not giving up my Two Cherries or my Ashley Iles chisels... And I have since added several quality vintage octagon bolster cast steel chisels to my stable... I won't trade them for Aldi's....

I actually visited my local Aldis and Lidl to see if they had some.. To see if this whole "Roasty-Toasty Chisel" baking thing was just a fluke from the 1 pack I tried... But alas - none in stock... I did see some gigantic masonry bits... Seriously - who decides to stock 20 three-packs of huge 3' long, 1 1/2" diameter masonry bits in a grocery store? These are for big hammer drills - not little home owner drills..

Yeah... I can see it now.... Mom pushing around the shopping cart... Bottle of wine.... Some Fresh bread.. Some funny looking German cookies... And a 3 pack of giant 3-foot long hammer drills that weighs 25lbs...

But you know how it is... Paul Sellers loves the things.... James Wright loves the things... Steve Newman loves the things.. So they must not be all bad... Mine are a lot better since I baked them...

But still... I find myself reaching more and more for my Good chisels.. I like the way they they feel and I like the way their edges hold up....

[Jim Koepke]

So they must not be all bad...

My guess is they are comparable to the many hardware store chisels in my accumulation. They even look like the Sandvik chisels purchased ~20 years ago when my woodworking journey began. They can do as good a job as the person who is wielding them is capable of doing.

Even though they are able to do fine work, they are mostly a general purpose chisel, jack of all trades and master of none. My paring chisels have me spoiled. My other chisels get a day off when the paring chisels are needed for a project. Just like when the choppers are needed the paring chisels lay resting in their drawer.

jtk

[David Ragan]

I gotta say, I went over to the local Aldi yesterday, and they had Zero.

I have some beaters already, just wanted to see what all the fuss is about.

[steven c newman]

387913387914387915387916387917
Stamped as GERMANY BRIT. ZONE DROPPED FORGED

Maybe these were from the steel off of an old Mk5, or Mk6 Panzer tank.....since there were a lot sitting around, and waiting to be recycled...
387918
The wide chisel is stamped as Muller and is 22mm. Company was bought out by a French company. The little chisel in-between is stamped 1/2" DROPPED FORGED and on the back is stamped ....JAPAN

Care to take a stab at the steel in these?

[Pat Barry]

387913387914387915387916387917
Stamped as GERMANY BRIT. ZONE DROPPED FORGED

Maybe these were from the steel off of an old Mk5, or Mk6 Panzer tank.....since there were a lot sitting around, and waiting to be recycled...
387918
The wide chisel is stamped as Muller and is 22mm. Company was bought out by a French company. The little chisel in-between is stamped 1/2" DROPPED FORGED and on the back is stamped ....JAPAN

Care to take a stab at the steel in these?
Nice to see you are an equal opportunity tool collector.

[John C Cox]

Well... Father's day came and went.. There were no chisels found in either Aldi or Lidl... What is this world coming to?

In their place - I found gigantic masonry hammer drill bits.... 3' long and 1 1/2" diameter or thereabouts..... At the German grocery store chain....

[steven c newman]

I didn't even bother to go look.....have two sets, don't need another one...

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have given up my search for the phantom chisels! I will stick to just buying my lawn care products at Aldi's, but they did have a sweet power washer there today!

[steven c newman]

388457
Oh, they are not phantoms....
388458
Backs even polish up nicely..
388459
Newer ones are a tad thicker, though ( the top one..)
388461
(newer one is on the right..)
388462
Must be a "mirage"..right?;)

[James Pallas]

Steven the wood liquidator people have a 4 chisel set for 5.99. You better run by there and pick up a set. They have PVC handles to boot. You can test them out and report back. They may even be better than Aldi's. :) Be first to write a review!
Jim

[steven c newman]

Thanks, but...no thanks, have all the chisels I need, for now.....

[Mike Brady]

Someone should develop a type study for the Aldis. Maybe it could be something like wine vintages: "Oh, the '18s are more full bodied, but I prefer the delicacy and polish of a 6mm '16".

[steven c newman]

Go for it, by all means have the OP do it! I am too busy USING mine to even worry about such things.

[John C Cox]

Too busy trying to get the gnats to leave my fresh guitar varnish alone. Gnat season seems to have arrived early this year. And I like my Two Cherries chisels better anyway....

But my roasty-toasty Oven-Roasted Aldi chisels seem to hold up adequately now... You should have seen the look my wife gave me...
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