PM model 60 question

[Drew Morton]

I recently purchased a few older machines, a powermatic model 60 jointer and a 141 bandsaw. According to the lady, she got them from an old woodworker friend that didnt use them anymore. She told me they hadnt been run since about 1990. Anyway, they had been sitting in her old detached garage becoming intimate with the local mouse population. So, they had a nice coating of rust on all the tables and fences, and any other exposed surface. My plans are to do a heavy clean up/very minor restoration and get them working as soon as possible. Cleaned up the tables and fence, and they turned out fine, with a nice old machine patina which I am fine with. They are smooth and flat and will work well. So I removed the cutterhead, which was rusty and gunked up, and decided to replace the bearings. When I reinstalled, I noticed that the edge of the rabbeting ledge does not line up with the edge of the cutterhead. Also, there is slight (less than 1/32nd) side to side play in the cutterhead. Does anyone have an older model 60 that they could look at and see if their cutterhead lines up with the rabbeting ledge or if there is any side to side play in the cutterhead? This might be difficult with the belt attached. Unfortunately, I did not take many "before" pictures, so I dont know if this is how it was when I bought them.

Thanks
Drew

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[Matt Day]

You got a couple nice machines, especially the bandsaw. I suggest asking over on OWWM as well as there are likely a lot more folks who have the jointer or have experience with it.

I don’t have that jointer, but my Northfield head lines uo with the rabbetting ledge as it’s supposed to.

[Drew Morton]

Thanks, I did post over there as well, but as yet only have views, no responses. I was originally looking for just the jointer, but she had the bandsaw there as well, and even though they need work, i was able to get both of the machines for $550. I already have a decent jet bandsaw, which I will be selling when I get the powermatic up and running. I dont use the bandsaw enough to need two of them, nor do I have the space in my garage. I really wish that I took some more "before" pictures before taking things apart, but I just figured that things would go back together as easily as they came apart. I should know better, I suppose...

[Matt Day]

You got a nice score on those machines!

To understand what their rabbiting ledge does, do a Google search for “cutting rabbits on a joiner”.

[Joe Jensen]

I owned a new in 1990 model 60 jointer and a new in 1990 Model 141 bandsaw. I think I paid over $2000 in 1990 for the bandsaw and $1400 for the jointer. The jointer cutterhead should now move side to side. There must be a locking collar on the cutterhead shaft that is loose. Google Powermatic model 60 manual and you will find an exploded view in the parts diagram.

[Drew Morton]

Attached is the cutterhead diagram from the manual that I downloaded. I dont know if this is the exact year as mine, but I imagine that it is probably the same. It shows no spacer or collar. The only thing that I can think would work at this point is a spacer inside of the bearing housing on the non-pulley side.

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[Matt Day]

Are you missing the “housing” on the outboard bearing?

[Drew Morton]

No, they are there. The housings are what get bolted to the base (from below).

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[andy bessette]

I have the model 60 which is gold with green stripe. The cutterhead lines up with the outboard edge of the outfeed table and has ZERO end play.

[Joe Jensen]

Maybe the bearings are pressed too far onto the shafts, maybe you can loosen the bolts that hold the bearing caps to push them tighter and re-tighten. Try that on one side and then the other. Or maybe the bearings are pressed too far onto the shaft. If the first idea doesn't work, remove the cutterhead and see if you can use a puller to pull a bearing out to take out the slop

[Bill Dufour]

maybe the bearing are worn out. Can you tell if the inner race is moving axially relative to the outer race. can the head be moved up and down by prying lightly.
Bill D

[Drew Morton]

I have the model 60 which is gold with green stripe. The cutterhead lines up with the outboard edge of the outfeed table and has ZERO end play.

Andy, if it is not too much trouble, can you take some pictures and measurements please? Youll have to remove your fence, but what is the distance between the bearing housings? How about the distance between each housing and the end of the cutterhead.

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Also, do your tables on the gib side overhang one way or the other?

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Even a straight down shot where I could compare where your tables sit in comparison to your cutterhead would be very helpful.

Thank you very much.

Drew

[Drew Morton]

Maybe the bearings are pressed too far onto the shafts, maybe you can loosen the bolts that hold the bearing caps to push them tighter and re-tighten. Try that on one side and then the other. Or maybe the bearings are pressed too far onto the shaft. If the first idea doesn't work, remove the cutterhead and see if you can use a puller to pull a bearing out to take out the slop

The bearing housing is tapped and held fast with a bolt from underneath. There is no play one way or the other once that is tight. Even pushing it one way while tightening doesnt do anything because it only tightens down into one position. The tapped hole in the bearing cap is offset, so I guess there is a possibility that the hole was drilled in the wrong spot.

I can pull the bearing off the shaft of the non-pulley side slightly, but not having the bearing completely seated would worry me.

[Drew Morton]

maybe the bearing are worn out. Can you tell if the inner race is moving axially relative to the outer race. can the head be moved up and down by prying lightly.
Bill D

The bearings are brand new. In fact, the old bearings seemed good, and I probably wouldnt have replaced them except that the cutterhead was so rusty and cruddy that it needed to be cleaned and while it was out seemed like a good time to replace them.

[Drew Morton]

As I am a visual person, here are some pictures that show how the bearing housing is tapped, and how it sits in the jointer base. As you can see, the tapped holes are off center on the bearing housing. They are centered in the jointer base. They have only one final position when tightened.

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With a factory shim in place.
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The bearing housing is just sitting in the base. It is not bolted in. You can see the bolt that would come up from the bottom to attach to the housing.
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[John Lanciani]

There is always the chance that someone else used the wrong bearings before you. Did you just replace like for like, or did you get the bearing info from a parts sheet? It probably wouldn’t explain the misaligned rabbeting ledge but it may well be the cause of the axial play in the cutterhead.

[Drew Morton]

I thought that might be an issue also. I did replace like for like, I just had the feeling that the person that originally owned the tools never did anything to them. However, the bearings that I pulled off were really in good shape, especially if the tool really had been sitting for 25+ years as she said. I think I will look to see if I can find some original part numbers to cross reference. Thanks!

[John Lanciani]

I thought that might be an issue also. I did replace like for like, I just had the feeling that the person that originally owned the tools never did anything to them. However, the bearings that I pulled off were really in good shape, especially if the tool really had been sitting for 25+ years as she said. I think I will look to see if I can find some original part numbers to cross reference. Thanks!

i just looked quickly over on the VM site, there are at least two different bearing choices depending on vintage; 204PP and 203PP.

[Drew Morton]

Looks like I have the correct bearings, part number 6203 double sealed.

[Drew Morton]

For those of you that are following along and arent bored yet, I looked online for some technical drawings of the cutterhead so that I could get accurate measurements and compare that to my cutterhead. The only place I could find that had anything was Byrd, which obviously isnt a powermatic head, but a replacement shelix head. (which I am considering at a later date). Anyway, when looking at the technical drawing, youll see that there is a definite area where the bearing seats, and nearer to the head there is a recessed area. Using the logic that the recessed area is where the bearing seating stops (and not completely seated against the head as I previously stated), i pulled the new bearings off, put the old ones back on (because if I was going to be pulling and banging on these bearings, Id rather use the old ones), and stopped pressing them on as they reached the recessed part. Reinstalled the cutterhead and there was no more side to side play at all. So as Joe Jensen mentioned previously, perhaps I wrongly assumed that the bearings should be completely pressed onto the shaft.

Note, I tried adding a picture of the Byrd drawing that shows the recessed area, but for some reason I am getting an error.

I would still like to compare my head with bearings pressed on to the recessed area with another Powermatic head, but at this point I am going to say this is fixed. Now, on to the rabbeting situation...

Thanks to everyone that contributed, read, or humored me so far. Sometimes it helps to get other ideas along the way.