Lathe Chuck Question

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I own a small Delta benchtop lathe with a 1 x 8 tpi spindle.

I want to make a pool cue stick which is basically a tapered spindle from 1 1/4" to 7/8" dia. I will need to do some end boring too.

I am not interested in bowl making, making larger spindles or pen making. So, the intended use of my chuck is very specific.

I like the Grizzly H8042 5" 4-jaw lathe chuck because it reminds me of a standard drill press chuck, just larger. Pic below.

I was also looking at offerings like the Nova G2, Apprentice, etc. which use removable jaws. However, I like the idea of just tightening the chuck to the object's diameter without the making a specific tenon to receive the chuck. So, the H8042 seems like a good solution.

What is the downside of the H8042 chuck regarding holding power or vibration? I cannot find any info on SMC, the internet or Youtube on them or chucks like them. Amazon has some remarks on the H8042, but they are quite mixed. Any thoughts are appreciated.


cheers, Jeff :)

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[John K Jordan]

Hard to see in the photo but are those jaws pointed where they grip? If so, that is great for metal but not so good for wood since the points can compress the wood and dig in. I can't imagine them holding very well compared to the jaws on the Nova, etc. Regardless of what you plan to turn, chucks with replaceable jaws are nice since when you decide to make something else you can just get some different jaws.

Jaws that are made with circular bores hold very well when the tenon is sized just a hair over the inside diameter of the jaws when fully closed. They don't dig in. It's usually no problem turning the tenon - put the blank between centers and turn with anything, even a parting tool, using a caliper of some sort for sizing, takes only 30 seconds or so. You can also use jaws like that on square blocks, fitting the corners between the jaws. I very often hold spindle blanks that way instead of cutting a tenon. If the block doesn't fit with the jaws all the way open, I might even reduce the size of the square with the bandsaw. You might be able to see the square block being held in one of the Nova jaws in the upper part of this photo.

385179

For long spindles I like the jaws that are fairly deep in the center, about a inch or so. I have some that are "long nose" which grip square or round spindles extremely well:
https://www.amazon.com/NOVA-6017-Nosed-Chuck-Accessory/dp/B0064JJBS8
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Also, the one shown looks like a "tommy bar" chuck, using the two rods to tighten. People have been using these for a long time but a scroll chuck with a key to tighten (such as the Nova G2 or Supernova is a lot more convenient.

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

I would skip the Grizzly chuck, in my opinion it is a metal lathe chuck. I also recommend studying about making pool cues before investing any money in tooling. One of the guys I know is a cuemaker, and he uses specialized lathes and other stuff that resembles wood lathe tooling, but that is about all. Can a pool cue be made on a Delta Midi? I suppose so, but for a quality cue, without the proper equipment it will be a difficult "trip".

[Kevin Beitz]

I worked at Grizzly. That chuck is made for wood...

[robert baccus]

That grizzy chuck looks excessively large and heavy for such a light object and expensive also.

[Doug W Swanson]

Another thing to consider is that Grizzly chuck uses Tommy bars for tightening. Depending on when you are trying to grip you may need a third hand to get things tight. I would spend a little more and look for a chuck that uses a wrench for tightening....

[Bill Blasic]

Regardless that it is made for wood it would be a bad choice for wood as John K points out. I cannot think of any case where that chuck would be useful on wood. I also think research into the making of pool cues would be very helpful. The cue maker I know uses a lot bigger lathe and a specialized lathe to boot.

[Len Mullin]

Jeffrey, other then for the size of your lathe, that chuck would do what you need. But you would need to add a proper set of jaws, then you could use it. As it is shown it is in need of a set of jaws, I think that all your seeing in the picture is the jaw sliders. I don't care for that style of chuck, I don't like using the tommy bars. I would spend a little extra to get one that uses a chuck key, I find them much easier to use.
Len

[Leo Van Der Loo]

This is the Grizzly chuck, and no good for holding wood, these jaws are maybe suitable to hold metal or similar hard material.

As for making pool cue, or pool cue stick, that is possible, you just need the ability to do it, but not with that chuck, good luck.

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[John K Jordan]

....But you would need to add a proper set of jaws, then you could use it. As it is shown it is in need of a set of jaws, I think that all your seeing in the picture is the jaw sliders. ...

The picture here shows it much better: http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-4-Jaw-Wood-Chuck-1-x-8-TPI/H8042

385231

It looks like the jaws are built in and are reversible, like those on a chuck I have for my metal-cutting lathe. The ad claims to they are for wood and will hold square stock securely.

Regardless, I would not want one, especially for holding a long spindle like a handle.

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

I worked at Grizzly. That chuck is made for wood...

That chuck is like a lot of chucks that were metal lathe chucks that ignorant companies converted to wood lathe chucks without enough knowledge to do it correctly. The metal lathe version of this chuck has a thicker body but the same jaws that have little or no holding power on wood.

[david privett]

if you left the wood square where the chuck jaws lie it would be better that a spur drive that a lot of us started with

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Upon watching many cue making videos on Youtube, and talking with small custom cue makers at a national expo last month, it appears that the lathe(s) of choice are metal working lathes for cue making, not woodworking. So, I'm looking to do a hybrid thing with a wood lathe as I'm just a hobbyist.

Small cue makers appear to use metal jaw-type chucks to hold the hardwood stock. Often, they use a plastic bushing to protect the finished cue end while the other end is being worked on. A metal chuck accepts a finished cue end while the other end is being worked on. So, a drive spur is not used.

As a side note...I also believe they use a metal lathe because much of the turning is done with a live tool (aka, spindle router) to cut the many materials that in a custom cue spindle, as well as effectively cut the thin shafts (i.e., the front part of the cue) absolutely true. The tool is on a powered linear worm feed for smooth movement, as well as for making threaded joints. They also use an X-Y tool feed that a metal lathes offer to do precision machining of the cue's ferrules, and for boring and threading operations. However, I think I can get around these things with my little wood lathe and the cue design I came up with. I'm also going to buy a production composite shaft.

I agree that the Grizzly chuck is like a metal chuck. However, the jaws are short as some folks pointed out even for a metal chuck. I don't think they are serrated either. Therefore the holding power may be compromised when using with wood. And, if it's poorly made, it may also have run-out to further aggravate its gripping power.

Has anyone used this chuck? A 'real' metal one won't adapt to my woodworking lathe (1 x 8 tpi). And, a typical wood chuck like Nova, Apprentice, etc., requires a tenon on the spindle which inhibits boring operations and finishing operations.

-Jeff

[Leo Van Der Loo]

A metal chuck can have a backplate that fits your lathe spindle.

The use of a metal lathe is for the precision and having the ability to offset the tailstock to get the exact taper when machining with the carriage moving along the ways with the tool held in the tool post and with the help of the follower to prevent deflection of the wood.

The biggest problem with cue making is keeping the wood straight, having straight wood and keeping it that way when drying.

I know that I would not use that kind of a chuck to turn any wood, but you can try, there are different ones if these won’t do it, makes a good door stop then ;)

[Brice Rogers]

I suppose that if the plastic bushing was square on the outside that it might work. In fact, I suppose that if you used a plastic bushing that you could tighten the chuck enough so that the wood wouldn't slip/spin/pull out and the plastic may not dent from the concentrated force of the ends of the jaws.

But, if you are on a tight budget and are just looking for an entry-level/cheap chuck, consider the Griz G8784. It only costs $69. But it also only has one set of jaws. I used the 3/4 x 16 version for a few years when I first got started. I even made some different sized jaws for it to expand its capability.

The Nova (a few bucks more but still a less expensive chuck) might be a better choice. It seems extremely similar physically to the Griz G8784 IIRC. The benefit of the Nova is you can buy a variety of other jaws for it. They even have a set of soft jaws that may work well with pool cues.

I'm curious... you mention that you own a small Delta midi lathe. How are you going to handle a 57-59" long cue on such a short lathe? (BTW, plan to build a steady rest to keep the cue from whipping in the center...).

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Brice...Cues break down into two pieces with the joint being at the midpoint. Each section is about 29" plus or minus about 1/2". This is the standard for American cues. It also allows them to fit into a cue case for travel which usually supports up to a 30" max section.

Only 'house cues' are one piece and live only in the pool hall or at home. House cues are also the cheapest cue available and desirable for abuse at a pool hall.

Therefore, my delta lathe can support 29" butt section with plenty of room to spare.

I will only make the butt section (the back end). It will be 29" long and range from 1 1/4" dia at the end to 7/8" dia at the joint to mate with common shafts.

The shaft section (front end) will be purchased from a major cue company in lieu of making one. They are 29" long, 7/8" dia at the joint and 1/2" at the tip. Modern composite materials and spliced construction on a factory made high performance shaft cannot be replicated by a small custom cue maker nor the hobbyist working in his garage. A shaft is what makes a cue perform and define most of the cue’s character. The butt is only decorative but does allow for weight adjustment.

I built a spindle support using roller blade wheels. However, since I'm only making the butt, and the butt is pretty robust in diameter, whipping should not be an issue.

Here’s a CAD drawing of my concept...
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[Jeffrey Makiel]

The cue will have base material of curly maple (white) for the aft and fore grip sections. The other woods will be macassar ebony (black), redheart (reddish) and canary wood (medium brown).

The sections will be held together with a centralized 3/4" maple dowel to ensure a crisp feel when stroking. A high quality slow set epoxy with a black resin dye will be used for all construction.

The finish will be a two part automotive epoxy urethane that is available in a special dual bladder spray can know as 2K.

I'm also considering making the aft grip removable to support different lengths that are sometimes needed. This will give the cue a nice custom feature that I don't see anyone doing and not rely on cheesy aftermarket add-ons. But, at the end of the day, it will all fit into a cue case. Here's a pic of that concept...

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[Marvin Hasenak]

I would go with a collet chuck. The last picture with the sports butt, I would buy an extra of the screw together mechanism and use the threaded portion with a piece of scrap to create my "driver" that would fit in the collet, and it would drive my blank for turning. As to the blank, I would buy a dowel and glue all of my segments to it. To do this I would buy a 4 jaw chuck, a cheap wood chuck, such as a PSI utility chuck. I would drill all of my segments using the 4 jaw chuck and slide them on the dowel as I glue it all together.

Confusing? Yes, I will see if I can draw this out and get back to you.

What size dowel will you use for the core?

[Brice Rogers]

Thanks for the explanation. Keep in mind that with "only" a 28" section of the cue, that you will, nevertheless, want to use steady rest. Why? Well a 2-1/2 foot piece with someone cutting on it may move around a bit. But if you know that what I'm saying (based on experience) is wrong then proceed as you wish.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Regarding the comment about having a spindle support, I plan to build this simple jig instead of using a support that I made earlier.

Since the butt section of a cue is a linear taper, this simple jig will provide a 'live tool' using my router. With very shallow passes, I anticipate negligible deflection. The jig will have adjustment for the degree of taper even though it's essentially a fixed amount on all cues.

I anticipate that a live tool will also allow me to work with non-wood materials like ivorine, plastic, silver and brass that will be inlays into the cue (spindle). It will also allow me to deal with varying densities of wood as shown in the pic above for my first cue.

Any thoughts are appreciated.:)

If it doesn't work, I will have the most gorgeous stakes for my tomato plants! All the neighbors will be green with envy!

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[Marvin Hasenak]

With a collet chuck and gluing up the blank so that you have extra on the headstock end, the dowel will fit in the collet. The collet will keep it all on center and not crush the dowel. Build the segmented part in sections about 6" long, drill and then glue them on the dowel core. Leaving dowel on each end. I have made pepper mill blanks this way, using 3" long segments literally stacked and glued together on 1/2 dowels.

https://s14.postimg.cc/6nsx6bvox/pc_1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Alex Zeller]

Most pool cues have a rubber bumper on the butt end to protect the cue when it's rested on something (a rack, the floor, etc). Could you use that hole for a worm screw then, if too large glue a dowel inside that then could accept the screw for the bumper? I'm new to turning so I'm more trying to learn what people do (I'm not blessed with a turning club near by).

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Thanks Marvin. That's what I was kind of thinking. Good confirmation.
-Jeff

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Hi Alex,
Most cues have a removable rubber bumper that allows access to the weight bolt in the butt. These weights are adjustable to the user by using a bigger or smaller bolt.

Since my cue is for me, I will likely turn the cue to my desired weight and bore it appropriately. I do not anticipate having a bolt at all. So, your idea is valid.
-Jeff

[Marvin Hasenak]

Do you have a drill press? If you do, you can do your drilling on the drill press and skip buying the 4 jaw chuck.

I also recommend making a plug for the tailstock end out of Delrin or glued together Corian. Something that your live center will not try to find the softest spot and try to go off center. Something as simple as a 1.5" cube with a 3/4" hole drilled about 1/2" deep will work. Slide it on the end of the dowel.