Delta 6" jointer not working - what next?

[Mike Manning]

I went to buy a vintage B&D Workmate off CL this evening and before I left with the workmate the PO gave me a Delta 37-190 6" jointer. It looks to be in pretty good shape cosmetically. Doesn't look used & abused. Tables have minimal flash rust. He wasn't sure it worked and it appears it doesn't work after trying to turn the motor on once I got it home. Nothing when I hit the switch. I did notice when plugging it in that the ground prong had been snapped off inside the electric plug when I plugged it in. Question: Are these motors set up such that they won't work if the ground is missing? I'm skeptical about that but that would sure be the simplest fix. Anyway, just wondering how you guys would proceed trying to figure out if this thing is broken big time or just something simple?

PS I'll get some better pics tomorrow if needed.

Thanks, Mike


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[Tony Pisano]

Power cord should get replaced if ground prong is broken, but that shouldn't stop it from working. If you have an electrical tester, the easiest thing might be with tool unplugged, set tester to resistance, put the leads on the 2 switch wires and turn switch on and off. You should get a reading in the on position if switch is good. Set tester for ac and check the ends of power cord to see if you have juice. Without a tester, I'd jump the switch to bypass it, then plug it in and see if the motor runs. If not, make a test light to check for power at the end of the cord. Does motor shaft turn freely? Does motor hum, or will it run if you give it a turn by hand? That could mean bad capacitor.

[Mike Manning]

Power cord should get replaced if ground prong is broken, but that shouldn't stop it from working. If you have an electrical tester, the easiest thing might be with tool unplugged, set tester to resistance, put the leads on the 2 switch wires and turn switch on and off. You should get a reading in the on position if switch is good. Set tester for ac and check the ends of power cord to see if you have juice. Without a tester, I'd jump the switch to bypass it, then plug it in and see if the motor runs. If not, make a test light to check for power at the end of the cord. Does motor shaft turn freely? Does motor hum, or will it run if you give it a turn by hand? That could mean bad capacitor.

Thanks Tony! The motor spins freely. It does not hum when power is connected and it won't run if I give the pulley a good turn by hand. As far as testing goes, I'm a complete novice in dealing with electrical issues. The only multimeter I own is an old digital Sperry. I tried downloading the manual a few months back and I felt like I was reading Martian. I think you already have to be familiar with this stuff to decipher it. Maybe I need to buy a more user friendly multimeter. I've included a pic of the switch wiring. I THINK the green wires are ground wires but I'm not sure how to do the testing you're talking about. Any good basic articles/books/websites I should peruse to help?

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Thanks! Mike

[Zachary Hoyt]

In your picture there are two wires that go into the back of the switch. They appear to be connected to spade terminals (flat metal pieces that stick out from the back of the switch). If it were my jointer I would unplug it from the wall, pull those two wires off the switch and connect them together with a jumper of some kind, either a short bit of insulated wire or a very short bit of flat metal that fits, wrap the temporary jumper with electrical tape for safety, and then plug the jointer back in. If the jointer starts when you plug it in then you will know the switch is at fault and you can either replace it with a new switch or open it, clean it up and put it back together. I have had good luck with cleaning the wood dust out of switches like that, polishing up the connections till they're shiny and reassembling them, but sometimes it's a bit of a parlor trick to get everything to go back inside the switch in the correct way and it takes a few tries to get it right. Don't try any of this if you feel at all uncomfortable with the methods, it's sometimes best not to take chances with electricity if you aren't sure what you're doing.
Zach

[Greg Peterson]

If the motor turns freely and the cutter head turns freely, then power is the first thing.

With everything unplugged, check continuity between the plug and the switch.

Check continuity across the switch. Flip the switch to the ON position and see if you have continuity across the switch.

These would be the first, simple things to check.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike

As far as DMM's go, that's about as basic as they get.
In your picture of the DMM, the switch is in the "OFF" position obviously.
1 click clockwise and you can read up to 600 vac.
2 clicks clockwise and you can only read to 200 vac.
It's a bad practice to change input voltage ranges with the meter connected to the circuit. remove leads, switch range and then reconnect leads. THESE TWO POSITIONS ARE THE ONLY POSITIONS YOUR METER SHOULD BE IN, IF THE MACHINE IT IS PLUGGED INTO THE WALL.

3 clicks clockwise begins the resistance mode and the meter will read up to 20 megohms, which is kind of a lot
4 through 8 clicks clockwise decreases the maximum resistance the DMM can display by a factor of 10 for each click of the switch in the clockwise direction. For now, if you are taking resistance readings, remove your test leads before switching ranges. You can get some weird readings you may not understand. THERE CAN BE NO POWER APPLIED IF THE METER IS SET TO THIS MODE. THE MACHINE HAS TO BE UNPLUGGED.

9 clicks clockwise and you are in diode mode. This is a mode to measure diodes in the forward and reverse direction to verify that the diode is sat. If you leave it in this position and measure dry contacts, on a short condition the meter will "beep". It's kind of handy for doing circuit checks for opens and closes, of switches and relay contacts, when you can't see the meter. Listen for the beep. if it beeps, it's shorted.

10-12 clicks clockwise is to measure dc milliamps. If you need to calibrate process measurement instrumentation, or check car sensors, it's a good mode, but you need to know what you're looking for first. These position won't help you with the jointer. The leads also have to be changed to read milliamps. Th red lead goes in the left jack position. Leave this mode alone for now.

13-17 clicks clockwise is the DC voltage range. Not much application around the house, the 20 volt range is good for checking automotive electrical circuits. Low voltage lighting in the house is generally 24-30vdc.

Your meter needs batteries of course. the batteries do a few things. They power the display, forward and reverse bias a diode in the diode mode, provide the voltage necessary to read ohms. The meter applies a dc voltage to the circuit to display ohms. It's internally reading voltage, but displaying that voltage drop across a circuit as ohms. If the meter beeps in the diode mode, the battery is also powering the "beeper".

That's the "basics" of how your meter works.

[Charlie Hinton]

Can't tell from the picture if the safety key is there or not.

http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Jointer-Owners-manuals/37-190%20Type%203.pdf (http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Jointer-Owners-manuals/37-190%20Type%203.pdf)

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[Tom M King]

First thing I'd try with those is to blow the switch out with compressed air.

[Mike Manning]

In your picture there are two wires that go into the back of the switch. They appear to be connected to spade terminals (flat metal pieces that stick out from the back of the switch). If it were my jointer I would unplug it from the wall, pull those two wires off the switch and connect them together with a jumper of some kind, either a short bit of insulated wire or a very short bit of flat metal that fits, wrap the temporary jumper with electrical tape for safety, and then plug the jointer back in. If the jointer starts when you plug it in then you will know the switch is at fault and you can either replace it with a new switch or open it, clean it up and put it back together. I have had good luck with cleaning the wood dust out of switches like that, polishing up the connections till they're shiny and reassembling them, but sometimes it's a bit of a parlor trick to get everything to go back inside the switch in the correct way and it takes a few tries to get it right. Don't try any of this if you feel at all uncomfortable with the methods, it's sometimes best not to take chances with electricity if you aren't sure what you're doing.
Zach

I was a bit surprised how dirty it was inside the switch box so I'll try clean things up and see if anything changes. I think I can do that. Zach, are you talking about pulling the two black wires and then connecting them with a short piece of wire using wire nuts on that short piece of jumper and each end of the black wire?



If the motor turns freely and the cutter head turns freely, then power is the first thing.

With everything unplugged, check continuity between the plug and the switch.

Check continuity across the switch. Flip the switch to the ON position and see if you have continuity across the switch.

These would be the first, simple things to check.

Greg,
At a high level I understand what you're talking about but I have no idea how to accomplish it or what tool(s) to use and how I'd use them.

Mike

[Mike Manning]

Can't tell from the picture if the safety key is there or not.

http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Jointer-Owners-manuals/37-190%20Type%203.pdf (http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Jointer-Owners-manuals/37-190%20Type%203.pdf)

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Charlie,
The safety key is in the switch. Should it be?
Mike

[Mike Manning]

First thing I'd try with those is to blow the switch out with compressed air.

I'll get it cleaned up in the morning and report back.

[Charlie Hinton]

Charlie,
The safety key is in the switch. Should it be?
Mike
Yes the key should be in the switch.
Since you seem to be unfamiliar with this type of equipment studying the manual would a very good idea.

[Lee Schierer]

The only multimeter I own is an old digital Sperry. I tried downloading the manual a few months back and I felt like I was reading Martian.
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Try this link for how to use your multi-meter (https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/how-to-use-a-multimeter). All meters work essentially the same way.

[Tony Pisano]

Since you have a meter, might as well check the switch with it. You are correct about the green wires being ground. You will be doing the most basic test. Be sure power cord is unplugged, then unplug the two spade terminals on the back of the switch. Set your meter to one of the lower resistance settings, then touch the two probes of the meter together. You should get a reading on the dial. If not, replace the battery in the meter. Next touch one probe to each terminal of the switch. You should get a reading when the switch is in on poition and no reading in off position. If no reading in ON position, switch is bad.
If you have a bad switch, while the terminals are disconnected, you can take a short pcs of wire with both ends stripped, and push one end into each wire terminal making sure there is contact. Put a wrap of tape on and plug the power cord in. Motor should run if everything else is good.

[Mike Manning]

Since you have a meter, might as well check the switch with it. You are correct about the green wires being ground. You will be doing the most basic test. Be sure power cord is unplugged, then unplug the two spade terminals on the back of the switch. Set your meter to one of the lower resistance settings, then touch the two probes of the meter together. You should get a reading on the dial. If not, replace the battery in the meter. Next touch one probe to each terminal of the switch. You should get a reading when the switch is in on poition and no reading in off position. If no reading in ON position, switch is bad.
If you have a bad switch, while the terminals are disconnected, you can take a short pcs of wire with both ends stripped, and push one end into each wire terminal making sure there is contact. Put a wrap of tape on and plug the power cord in. Motor should run if everything else is good.

Thanks a bunch Tony! That sounds pretty clear to me such that I actually think I can do just what you describe and drew in the pic.

[Mike Kees]

Mike, that is a great jointer. I used to own one just like it.I had trouble with the switch on mine getting saw dust inside of it. I remember cleaning it several times, probably the best solution if your problem is the switch would be to replace it with a better quality dustproof switch.Others have given great advice and instructions to test it. Good luck,Mike.

[Mike Manning]

Okay, great news! The switch was dirty. I first jumpered around the switch and the motor came to life when plugged in. I cleaned off the contacts and tried with the switch and nothing. Then I took the switch completely apart and cleaned off the copper contact inside the switch, put it all back together and it worked!

I'm ready to put the new power cable on but the damn plastic holder for the wire isn't cooperating at all and I'm afraid I'm going to break it. Anyone know the secret of getting the cord and this "collar" (?) to snap back into that hole at the back of the plastic switch box? Other options if I can't get it back in there?

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Thanks, Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The small removable section of the cable clamp/restraint has to be compressed to allow it to be removed with the cable intact. You could cut the old cord as close as possible to the clamp/restraint on the outside of the switch housing and then push the remaining piece of cable through into the switch housing. Then the plastic cable restraint/clamp could be removed. It is placed on the new cable and with the smaller piece compressed into the cable the restraint/clamp with the cable is pushed into the opening of the switch housing from the outside of the switch housing.

They actually make special pliers to compress the cable restraint piece but in 40 years of electronic service, I never bought or used one. They can be a bugger to remove!

Looking at your first photo, you'd squeeze down on the small piece of the clamp and then pull out on the cable assembly to remove it.

Here's a link to a video https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=removing+cable+restraints&docid=608020328847444465&mid=D7440390BB0BF8499448D7440390BB0BF8499448&view=detail&FORM=VIREHT

[Mike Manning]

The small removable section of the cable clamp/restraint has to be compressed to allow it to be removed with the cable intact. You could cut the old cord as close as possible to the clamp/restraint on the outside of the switch housing and then push the remaining piece of cable through into the switch housing. Then the plastic cable restraint/clamp could be removed. It is placed on the new cable and with the smaller piece compressed into the cable the restraint/clamp with the cable is pushed into the opening of the switch housing from the outside of the switch housing.

They actually make special pliers to compress the cable restraint piece but in 40 years of electronic service, I never bought or used one. They can be a bugger to remove!

Looking at your first photo, you'd squeeze down on the small piece of the clamp and then pull out on the cable assembly to remove it.

Here's a link to a video https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=removing+cable+restraints&docid=608020328847444465&mid=D7440390BB0BF8499448D7440390BB0BF8499448&view=detail&FORM=VIREHT

Ken,
I got the cable and clamp out with no problem. The clamp has two flat sides. I grabbed it with a pair of pliers and turned the box to line up the flats and it came out easily. Putting it back in is where I'm struggling. I'm using a new 14 gauge power cable and that's definitely what was on it previously but it isn't wanting to go back in and I'm unable to squeeze the clamp/collar all the way around at the same time to get it back in there. I just had a thought that maybe a hose clamp might let me squeeze it at one. Gonna try that.

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,
I got the cable and clamp out with no problem. The clamp has two flat sides. I grabbed it with a pair of pliers and turned the box to line up the flats and it came out easily. Putting it back in is where I'm struggling. I'm using a new 14 gauge power cable and that's definitely what was on it previously but it isn't wanting to go back in and I'm unable to squeeze the clamp/collar all the way around at the same time to get it back in there. I just had a thought that maybe a hose clamp might let me squeeze it at one. Gonna try that.

Mike

I have used pliers, vice grips and channel locks. It can be a booger!

What you are fighting now is the new cable doesn't have a compressed area in it's jacket yet, so you are having to compress it.

Stay the course, you can win!

[Mike Manning]

I was wrong again. The old power cord was 16G not 14G. Luckily I had both 14G and 16G replacement cords in my shop. The 16G went in with no trouble. Tested it and it works. Base and motor all cleaned up but I need to go get some machine screws to put the switch back on the base. There are two screws and it seems they were actually oversized for the threaded holes they were put in. The threads on those screws are almost gone. In trying to get one of them out I stripped the philips head. Actually got to try the Craftsman screw remover I've had for over a decade and it worked like a charm to get it out.

Tomorrow I'll get the jointer back on the base and connected and start getting the table nice and bright. Then see about making sure the tables are level. Already downloaded the manual and I'll read that tonight. Some differences between this Delta 6" jointer and my 1940 Delta 6". :-)

Thanks EVERYBODY for the help to this point!!!! I'll keep you posted on how things go tomorrow.

Mike