Plywood questions

[Rob Blaustein]

I have limited experience with veneered plywood and have a few very basic questions:

1. Is it better to store plywood upright rather than stacked the way it is at Home Depot (lying flat)? I saw someone on TV say that it warps more lying flat horizontally. I would have thought its own weight would help prevent that.

2. Is there any difference, in terms of recommended blades, between ripping plywood or crosscutting it? I gather the grain of the veneer is oriented the long way but it's such a thin piece that I wouldn't think the rules that apply to solid wood apply here--is that right? Is a blade like a Forrest WWII good for plywood, or is a dedicated plywood blade better?

[Mark Singer]

I keep it vertical.It is less likly to warp because the ambient moisture does not settle on the face and there is no weight on the sheet.
I have a variety of blades. The WWII will do a pretty good job . Cross cutting oak ply may require a finer blade...80 tooth veneer blade...try the wwII first. The Festool plunge saw works well.

[Scott Parks]

THe WWII works great for me. Sometimes on "cheap" plywood, it will tearoff the veneer layer when crosscutting. But this is likely due to the quality of the plywood, not the blade. Ripping is still fine, it doesnt tear out at all. The WWII is an excellent all-in-one blade, and I never see the need for a different blade. Like Mark says, the Festool saw does a great job too, which is what I use mostly for crosscutting. (but that is in no way related to your ?:D)

[Rob Blaustein]

I keep it vertical.It is less likly to warp because the ambient moisture does not settle on the face and there is no weight on the sheet.
I have a variety of blades. The WWII will do a pretty good job . Cross cutting oak ply may require a finer blade...80 tooth veneer blade...try the wwII first. The Festool plunge saw works well.
Are you saying that when you stand it up the ambient moisture affects both sides equally, but when you lay it down only the exposed face is open to air and that's what promotes warping? That does make sense.

Speaking of the Festool--I am strongly considering taking the plunge (insert 'bad pun' smiley here) given the intro price plus rebates. I need to build some cabinets using plywood, including a bathroom vanity that I will post a few questions about in the design forum soon.

[Steve Cox]

The WWII will work fine for ripping the plywood. Most of the time it will work fine for crosscutting plywood. As a general rule I crosscut sheets twice. Once with the blade up about 1/8" (one turn on my cabinet saw) in order to score the sheet and then once more at a proper height to cut through the sheet. I have a sliding table attachment on my saw so this is a pretty easy operation for me.

[Rick Christopherson]

I have enough shop space that I can afford to have a horizontal plywood rack. The concept of plywood warping when it is laying flat is a myth. If you are introducing or extracting enough moisture to/from plywood to cause it to warp while laying flat, then you have more serious environmental problems in the shop than storage.

The reason why horizontal storage is in less favor over vertical storage is because it takes more space per sheet. I have an unusable corner of the shop where I can afford to lose a 4 by 8 foot space, so this is what I chose 10 years ago. Some of my plywood is left over from non-standard jobs and has been sitting for nearly 10 years without warping.

My rack is made from 2x4 framing with a spacing of about 10 inches between racks. Back when I was more organized, I used to keep each rack filled with a specific type of sheet, but these days it is more of a hodge-podge.

What I like about the horizontal storage is that it is easier to handle a sheet between the rack and the saw. I keep the most popular sheets in the mid-rack where I can pull them straight out and onto a rolling cart, which then lines up with the tablesaw. This means I don't have to lift the entire 96 pounds of an MDF-core sheet of plywood.

My father has a vertical rack, and I have found it to be more difficult to move full sheets with his 8-foot ceilings. With 8-foot ceilings, it is very difficult to move and tilt the sheet to get it to the saw. You need to tilt the sheet down, and this is hard on my back. More importantly, if you skew the sheet, it will jamb between the floor and ceiling (unless you have 9-foot ceilings).

Furthermore, with a vertical storage, if the sheet is not perfectly vertical, it will warp under its own weight.

However, a benefit to vertical storage is that it is easier to pull one sheet out from between other sheets. Because I use so many different types of plywood, this is the bane of my horizontal rack. While I keep frequently used plywoods in the mid-racks, the upper and lower racks are a mix of plywood types. To get to one sheet, I may have to remove several other sheets first.
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Please don't get me wrong. I am aware that vertical storage is more popular for many reasons. I am simply presenting the other side of the coin. I also think I have presented fair pro's and con's to both systems.

[Dev Emch]

I consume massive amounts of baltic birch ply in mostly 3/4 inch size and 1/2 inch size. Dimensions vary a bit as I get a better buy on the 5x5 sheets which is metric.

I purchase my goods from an industrial account and they store the ply flat. That is because it comes in bunks and they need a fork to lift the bunks in and out of the racks. The racks are four bunk levels high to save space.

I store it both ways. Vertical and horizontally. Right now, I am sitting on about four bunks of baltic birch so I had to put the last bunk in my game room and I layed it flat. When storing it in the vertical, I try to to get the sheets as vertical as possible without them tipping over. If you let them hang at a 45 degree angle for example, I guess they could sag and warp. I guess as I have never done this. Vertical means darn near 90 degrees vertical and flat means flat.

I would also recommend that you sticker the sheets off the ground esp. if the floor is concrete or dirt. I did not say to sticker each sheet mind you. Just keep the stack off the ground. Also, if your storing in the horizontal, you may wish to conver the top sheet with a sheet of cardboard or a bed sheet, etc. This keeps the mice from urinating on an expensive sheet of ply and it keeps the ply from gathering any dust as well. Avoid plastic as this does not breath.

Ply will warp when lying in the horizontal if you have a moisture issue from below. But for the most part, it should remain fairly stable.

My cabinet work demands the use of baltic birch and I dont use any other variety. I also avoid MDF. So I cannot speak for any other types as I dont know and I dont have any experience with them.

In terms of cutting this stuff. I rip this stuff into blanks using my Martin table saw. It is equiped with a Forrest Duraline sheet goods blade of 12 inches with a 1.25 inch arbor. By iteself, this blade does an excellent job. But most of your blow out occurs on the bottom of the kerf. So one trick I learned long ago is to tape the bottom of the kerf line with say painters tape. This works great. But my martin also has a seperate scoring blade and motor and this really improves the cut. Right now, I am running a Leitz shim adjustable scoring blade. This makes my volume cutting reasonable. For hobby shops and small runs, I would use the duraline blade and tape the bottom of the kerf where no blow out is needed. You should be O.K.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have limited experience with veneered plywood and have a few very basic questions:

1. Is it better to store plywood upright rather than stacked the way it is at Home Depot (lying flat)? I saw someone on TV say that it warps more lying flat horizontally. I would have thought its own weight would help prevent that.

2. Is there any difference, in terms of recommended blades, between ripping plywood or crosscutting it? I gather the grain of the veneer is oriented the long way but it's such a thin piece that I wouldn't think the rules that apply to solid wood apply here--is that right? Is a blade like a Forrest WWII good for plywood, or is a dedicated plywood blade better?

1. I like to store plywood flat. I have never had a problem with it warping.
I am attaching a picture of my plywood rack.

2. I use a Forrest WWII blade.

[Keel McDonald]

Don't know much about storing plywood. To answer you question about cutting it with minimal splintering, I recently completed a project and cut the ply FACE DOWN when using a circular saw. This keeps the blade cutting "into" the money side instead of pulling away from it. Very little splintering, if any. On the table saw, it was just the opposite, I cut it face UP. It was the same result, very little splintering. Good luck!

[Dave Falkenstein]

Speaking of the Festool--I am strongly considering taking the plunge (insert 'bad pun' smiley here) given the intro price plus rebates. I need to build some cabinets using plywood, including a bathroom vanity that I will post a few questions about in the design forum soon.

I'm afraid you might be too late to take the plunge on the older model ATF55 - it sold out at the Festool warehouses about a week ago. The new TS saws are not available yet. A few of the local dealers still have the ATF55, so hurry if you want to snatch one up at the clearance pricing. You might also check with Festool by phone to see if they have any returned/refurbished units available. Festool does not advertise those units anywhere.

[Frank Pellow]

I'm afraid you might be too late to take the plunge on the older model ATF55 - it sold out at the Festool warehouses about a week ago. The new TS saws are not available yet. A few of the local dealers still have the ATF55, so hurry if you want to snatch one up at the clearance pricing. You might also check with Festool by phone to see if they have any returned/refurbished units available. Festool does not advertise those units anywhere.
Dave, Rob said intro price, so he must be talking about the new TS 55. It will be available on the 21st of November and dealers are taking pre-orders now.

[Rob Blaustein]

Thanks for all the info! Dave, if I got the Festool, I'd wait for the TS55--with the intro price plus deals, I think it will be very close to the old ATF. I've put in an email to Bob M. to double check.

[Steve Clardy]

I would rather store ply flat. But it eats up lots of room, individual compartments for different species.
Mine is all stood up, 8' lenghth up. Takes less room, and for me it's handier to move to saw that way. I work by myself, and it's a real chore to get plywood in and out of a rack where it's all stacked flat by myself