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Travis Unruh
04-27-2018, 11:19 PM
I've been attempting to build a workbench following the videos released by Paul Sellers in his master class series. I've noticed that while planing the legs, the ends tend to round off. The result is a slight arch in the legs as the center sits higher than the ends by several mm's. Despite my efforts to get the legs true and straight, I continue to get the same result. I am new to working with hand planes and can't seem to identify what I am doing wrong. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I have been using a #7 and the pieces are about 32" long.

Warren Mickley
04-28-2018, 5:08 AM
The remedy for a surface that is humped in the middle is to plane the center while avoiding the ends of the board. We use a straight edge regularly to check our progress. You don't want to take anything off at the ends until the hump is gone.

Beginners often have a problem rounding over the ends, so making a cut avoiding the ends should be a regular pattern. Even David Charlesworth, who claims to have used a plane for decades, says he cannot plane a flat surface repeatedly without going convex.

Steve Kaminska
04-28-2018, 6:41 AM
I've noticed this in my own work as well. I think we have a tendency to bear down on the plane to start the cut as well as to ensure it finishes through the end of the board. If you watch Paul's videos carefully, even he spends more time planing in the middle of the board than making complete passes.

Phil Mueller
04-28-2018, 7:38 AM
Hi Travis,
As Warren indicated, you don’t plane the ends. Make a pencil mark about 1/4-1/2” in from both ends. You start the plane with the iron at the pencil mark, and stop the cut just shy of the pencil mark at the far end...thus not planing the ends. Set the plane for a very fine shaving. After a few passes, the plane will stop making shavings. At this point, you have a concave edge (a few thousands)...considered flat by most. Take one last full pass of the edge to remove the pencil marks.

This works equally well on wider surfaces, such as your bench legs. However, on wider boards you also want to avoid planing the outside edges as well. I make a pencil mark on both ends (as above) and about 1/4” in from both sides. This will help keep you from causing a convex surface from side to side. Once the plane stops taking shavings, again, do one last complete pass to remove all the pencil marks.

I first learned this method from David Charlesworth. He has an excellent video (available from LN) that takes you through the entire flattening process.

Warren Mickley
04-28-2018, 7:46 AM
If the board is concave, you want to plane the ends and not the middle. If the board is convex, you want to plane the middle and not the ends. If you have a board that is long and convex, just plane the very middle and gradually lengthen the strokes as the board gets closer to flat.

Derek Cohen
04-28-2018, 8:39 AM
I've been attempting to build a workbench following the videos released by Paul Sellers in his master class series. I've noticed that while planing the legs, the ends tend to round off. The result is a slight arch in the legs as the center sits higher than the ends by several mm's. Despite my efforts to get the legs true and straight, I continue to get the same result. I am new to working with hand planes and can't seem to identify what I am doing wrong. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I have been using a #7 and the pieces are about 32" long.

The first thing to determine is where the high spots are. You can use your eye and squint along the work piece, or you can use a straight edge. If you want a flat surface, first remove the high spots. Then finish with through shavings.

If you are still rounding off the ends, it is about too much down force on the toe of the plane as it comes off the end of board. Relax your grip on the knob and push down (and forward) on the handle. One does the opposite when entering the board.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Robert Engel
04-28-2018, 9:54 AM
Travis,

I think this most likely has to do with hand pressure on the plane.

When starting keep maximum pressure on the toe, firm pressure through the cut, and very little as the toe approaches the end of the board.

On a jointer plane, I find it also helps to adopt a low grip on the tote and hole your forearm more parallel to the board, especially toward the end of the stroke.

Also, slowing down the speed of the stroke with any plane almost always result is less errors.

All this being said, the first thing I would do is check the sole for flatness ;)

Hope this helps.

James Pallas
04-28-2018, 10:25 AM
Sometimes I think when videos are made and edited they like to show those long plane strokes and shavings. They edit out the part where short stokes are taken or a jack plane is used to knock down some high spots. Don't be afraid to start in the middle or the end with shorter strokes. Use your straight edge and go ahead and mark the spots if you need to.
Jim

Robert Hazelwood
04-28-2018, 10:43 AM
Agree with the advice so far. One thing to look at as well is to see if there is any concavity to the sole of the plane, along it's length. Even a couple thousandths will make it very difficult not to plane a hump into an edge.

Bill Nenna
04-28-2018, 1:55 PM
Agree with the advice so far. One thing to look at as well is to see if there is any concavity to the sole of the plane, along it'sI length. Even a couple thousandths will make it very difficult not to plane a hump into an edge.
I was about to suggest the same. If the plane has any amount of lengthwise "bow" or "belly" it will surely plane the ends of a surface lower and create a "hump" in the middle on a surface longer than the plane. This can be also be evidenced by a full-length shaving which will be thicker near the start and again near the end of the board.

lowell holmes
04-28-2018, 2:59 PM
If you will take a #2 pencil and draw lines crossways on the high parts, you will see where to plane. Keep doing this until the humps are gone.

Travis Unruh
04-28-2018, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. I've tried to check my #7 for flatness, but I'm limited by an 18" granit slab. Any advice on where I can find something else to flatten and check the longer planes?

Phil, I went imediately to LN and purchased the video you are referencing. I'm a sucker for these videos (to my wife's dismay). I plan on attempting the technique you describe and fingers crossed it works!

Jim Koepke
04-29-2018, 1:28 AM
Thanks for the advice everyone. I've tried to check my #7 for flatness, but I'm limited by an 18" granit slab. Any advice on where I can find something else to flatten and check the longer planes?

Is the granite slab wider than a few inches? How far is it from corner to corner on the granite slab?

If it is flat from the toe over 18" of the sole and also flat from the heel over 18" of the sole, the plane is likely fairly flat.

If you are in my area, let me know we can get together and check it out. If not you may be near another member who is willing to lend a hand.

If you put a location in your profile settings someone near you may respond with an offer of assistance.

jtk

Warren Mickley
04-29-2018, 7:32 AM
I recommend that you don't get the Charlesworth video. His idea is that he will provide a method you can follow so that you will have success without really thinking about what is going on. We call this the cookbook approach. Your problem is the opposite: your are not really thinking about what could be causing the problems or how to solve them. A better approach, mentioned by several in this thread is to identify the high spots and plane only those spots. Check your progress often rather than blindly planing away.

I rather doubt that problems you describe come from the sole of the plane. You could give it a quick check with any kind of straight edge or ruler. It is not that having a very flat sole would not be helpful, but that the situation you describe suggests that you are not taking the kind of partial length shavings that would remedy the situation.

James Pallas
04-29-2018, 7:56 AM
I recommend that you don't get the Charlesworth video. His idea is that he will provide a method you can follow so that you will have success without really thinking about what is going on. We call this the cookbook approach. Your problem is the opposite: your are not really thinking about what could be causing the problems or how to solve them. A better approach, mentioned by several in this thread is to identify the high spots and plane only those spots. Check your progress often rather than blindly planing away.

I rather doubt that problems you describe come from the sole of the plane. You could give it a quick check with any kind of straight edge or ruler. It is not that having a very flat sole would not be helpful, but that the situation you describe suggests that you are not taking the kind of partial length shavings that would remedy the situation.

Sound advice from a credible source.
Jim

Phil Mueller
04-29-2018, 7:56 AM
Being relatively new to woodworking (relative to many of you), my first experiences of planing boards flat are pretty clear in my mind. I watched dozens of youtube videos and took the advice of many here. I spent countless hours of frustration. It wasn’t until the Charlesworth video that it became clear to me what was going on and what I needed to look for. It allowed me to get closer to the flattening technique many here have suggested. When learning to cook, most start with a cookbook and advance from there. That was my experience and I hope it helps the OP as much as it did me.

Travis Unruh
04-30-2018, 12:54 AM
Hi Jim,

The slab is about 19 inches corner to corner and is roughly 6 inches across. When I checked the plane as you described, it was flat to between .0015 and .002.

I went ahead and updated my location in my profile. Thanks for the advice!

Jim Koepke
04-30-2018, 2:02 AM
Hi Jim,

The slab is about 19 inches corner to corner and is roughly 6 inches across. When I checked the plane as you described, it was flat to between .0015 and .002.

I went ahead and updated my location in my profile. Thanks for the advice!

Being out by 0.002" isn't bad for a jointer.

The comments on technique above are spot on about learning to locate and knock down the high spots.

Salem is a couple hours from here.

jtk

Pat Barry
04-30-2018, 6:20 PM
I recommend that you don't get the Charlesworth video. His idea is that he will provide a method you can follow so that you will have success without really thinking about what is going on. We call this the cookbook approach. Your problem is the opposite: your are not really thinking about what could be causing the problems or how to solve them. A better approach, mentioned by several in this thread is to identify the high spots and plane only those spots. Check your progress often rather than blindly planing away.

I rather doubt that problems you describe come from the sole of the plane. You could give it a quick check with any kind of straight edge or ruler. It is not that having a very flat sole would not be helpful, but that the situation you describe suggests that you are not taking the kind of partial length shavings that would remedy the situation.
Really? The Charlesworth video's are well done and should be recommended viewing. Of course there are more than one way to accomplish most tasks. Working in the dark might be good for some.

Warren Mickley
05-01-2018, 7:13 AM
Really? The Charlesworth video's are well done and should be recommended viewing. Of course there are more than one way to accomplish most tasks. Working in the dark might be good for some.

I think the difference is that Charlesworth is just planing to true up a board that has already been worked on a machine jointer. His techniques reflect that fact.

Brian Eaton
05-01-2018, 7:51 AM
If I could piggyback on this thread...when flattening a board that has a cup to it, should start with the concave or convex face first?

Phil Mueller
05-01-2018, 8:36 AM
Warren, your point is well taken. If starting from rough stock with considerable twist, cup, etc., David’s method could take forever to flatten. His method is probably best when dealing with thousands of an inch, not fractions.

Should probably also mention that when working on the convex side, there might be a need to shim underneath to keep the board from flattening artificially as you plane.

James Pallas
05-01-2018, 11:22 AM
Starting out for myself I learned several lessons early on. The first and most important was to spend some time evaluating the material. Get out your tools for this first, leave the planes in the tool chest. I like string lines, long straight edges, winding sticks, crayons, chalk, and pencils. Look at the material picture what you are trying to get out of it and then evaluate. Ask yourself the question, can I get what I want out of this piece. ie. I have a 1" board 10' long and I need an 8' board 7/8" thick. You find your piece has. 1/2" bow and a1/4" twist. You may need to find another piece of material. Evaluate first! Or you are prepping a piece for another project. Once you find a board that will work then keep evaluating until you have a clear picture of what you are going to do to prepare your board. Now chose your weapon, saw?, scrub plane?, Jack plane, so forth and so on. Now you are ready to spend calories.
Jim

david charlesworth
05-02-2018, 1:53 PM
Warren,

I wonder if your "roundness" has anything to do with the minute bumps that develop in my edges after repeated through shavings? Just a few thou".

It is not a claim. I started cabinetmaking in 1971, some 47 years ago.

David Charlesworth

Simon MacGowen
05-02-2018, 2:21 PM
Too late to the party, but if you are still looking for an authoritative resource for flattening boards in a "cookbook" fashion, to borrow Warren's description, try the Essential Woodworker, R. Wearing, Lost Art Press. It describes a "mechanical, consistent method" that flattens a board with confidence. It is as fool-proof as any hand approach can be....Wearing should have named it as "The Very Board Flattening Technique for the Dummies." On removing high spots, a common beginner's mistake is to start from one end to the other end. Start where the high spot is about to begin. Some use a plane taking off approach while Paul Sellers lifts up the heel of the plane as soon as the plane passes the high spot. Try both to see which one works better for you.

Sorry, I just can't resist saying this: Guided practice (by reading, watching a video -- Charlesworth's or Sellers', or through the help of a skilled plane user) will make a huge difference here. :D After successfully planing a board flat, your next challenge, if you're in for it, is to plane an edge straight and square to its reference face freehand (not using a fence). Many many plane users struggle with it. James Krenov offers great advice on that topic (forgot the name of his book).

Simon

Warren Mickley
05-02-2018, 3:12 PM
Warren,

I wonder if your "roundness" has anything to do with the minute bumps that develop in my edges after repeated through shavings? Just a few thou".

It is not a claim. I started cabinetmaking in 1971, some 47 years ago.

David Charlesworth

David, Here is what you wrote just two years ago on this forum:

"If you take five or ten shavings off these "Straight edges" they will develop a small hump.

Handplanes do not have the correct geometry to produce straight edges on their own.

Perfectly set up machines do, but they have a moving "in table" "or front sole" which hand planes do not.

I find few people who are happy with these facts!"

I tried this with my own plane, taking 10 and then 100 shavings with no apparent hump. As I wrote in response at the time, I would alter the plane if it performed in the manner you described.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?241826-How-to-plane-without-making-a-bow/page2

Jim Koepke
05-03-2018, 12:24 PM
My early experience with this was a convex bowing of a board can be caused by one's technique.

Especially for beginners it is common for a person to press down on their plane while moving the plane forward. At the start there is increased pressure on the knob. As the full length of the plane is one the work there is a tendency to relax the pressure until the plane reaches the end of the piece being worked and downward pressure is applied on the tote.

Makes me want to go out and take some shavings to see how much variation can be had from one end to the other. Unfortunately my shop is undergoing some 'spring cleaning' at the moment and there are other chores in the greenhouse that need tending.

Another similar problem is if a long piece is being planed without support and is flexing.

jtk