Would you do this on cabinet shelves?

[David Rose]

I am about to cut the dados for shelves in my finish/glue cabinet. This is a little walnut cabinet that will be inside the house for storing things that shouldn't get hot or freeze like glues and shellac.

I need some space between shelves that measures 11". If I do the bottom two shelves that way, the middle shelf will not fall on a mullion that runs across the end panels. It will only show when the doors are open. Two of the shelves will run across panels anyway. The other choice is a top shelf with 8", second shelf with 11", third shelf with 8" and bottom spacing of 11".

Which of these two choices would you pick? Or do you have a better idea?

David

[Lee Schierer]

Why not make the shelves adjustable? You never know when oyu will need an inch more or less. I would drill holes in teh side frames and use shelf pins for supporting the shelves. If you don't need the stiffness in the cabinet from setting the shelves in dados, I would definitely make them adjustable in case some one makes a glue bottle an inch taller than your current ones.

[PeterTorresani]

I agree with Lee. There is nothing more frustrating than a shelf that is an inch too short. If you do need the stiffness, make one of them permanent (one with the largest height) and use pins for the rest.

[David Rose]

Yeah, I get the idea. I do need the stiffness, but could easily mount at least one shelf with pins.

Thanks for the tip. I considered pins in the beginning and ruled them out due to needing the support. But one or two shelves I had not considered.

David

[Bobby Hatfield]

Hey David I used these on some adjustable shelve cabinets that would hold a 100#, used two on each end, one center back and one on front center stile between doors, shelves were 4ft long birch ply and with cabinet on floor I sat on shelf as I installed them on next cab. Got these from McFeely. http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/shelsuppin.html

[David Rose]

Thanks "Grouchy"! ;) I'm leaning that way for ease of installation. It is 'kind of' Arts & Craft style so I wasn't sure how they would "fit in". But they don't show much so...

Amazing how what starts as a thrown together quickie project evolves into all kinds of new things. :(

David


Hey David I used these on some adjustable shelve cabinets that would hold a 100#, used two on each end, one center back and one on front center stile between doors, shelves were 4ft long birch ply and with cabinet on floor I sat on shelf as I installed them on next cab. Got these from McFeely. http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/shelsuppin.html

[John Wadsworth]

These very cool shelf support pins have become my favorite:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.asp?page=40184&category=3,43648,43649&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=

They're in two parts--a ringed stud with female thread that gets pushed into a 7mm hole in the upright, and a pin with a male thread that screws into the stud. Very sturdy, because the stud is a very tight fit in its hole. If you want to move the shelf, just push in new studs at the new level and unscrew the pins from the old level,and screw them into the new studs--the old studs stay behind and are almost invisible.

Good luck, whichever way you go--

[David Rose]

John is there a reason you prefer them over the press in type? I compared those you use to others Lee Valley showed. That is why I am asking. It looks like they would be a half pin more visible than the other types. That may not matter.

David


These very cool shelf support pins have become my favorite:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.asp?page=40184&category=3,43648,43649&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=

They're in two parts--a ringed stud with female thread that gets pushed into a 7mm hole in the upright, and a pin with a male thread that screws into the stud. Very sturdy, because the stud is a very tight fit in its hole. If you want to move the shelf, just push in new studs at the new level and unscrew the pins from the old level,and screw them into the new studs--the old studs stay behind and are almost invisible.

Good luck, whichever way you go--

[John Wadsworth]

David,

I like the Lee Valley two-part shelf pins because (1) the stud (or sleeve) is a very tight press fit, and thus has less tendency to cam out of its hole under strain, and (2) the visible part (the pin) is small and--to my eye--classier than the visible part of an L-shaped support. You can of course cut recesses in the shelf bottoms for either type, but I've never bothered except in the kitchen (where I worry that sliding heavy utensils out could also drag the shelf forward and off its rear supports).

Hey, I've got lots of the L-shaped ones, too--both in drilled holes and with routed-in channel supports. And I'll probably be knocking together some more soon, since we just sold our city apartment and moved another thousand books up here to our country home. So go with what you like, given the use and the balance between utility and "show."

My .02,

John

[John Wadsworth]

I should add that the difference in cam-out is probably not a practical problem if your casework is square and your shelves a snug fit. Any tendency of the L-shaped supports to sag will be met by having them jam against the ends of the shelves, stopping the sag.

The only time I've actually had shelves fail was many, many moons ago--before I knew anything about woodworking. I had rented a small apartment with very high ceilings and had sketched out what seemed to me to be a perfectly reasonable bookcase consisting of four ten-foot-tall bays. Seven pieces of cheapo mahogany 1x10 (five uprights, base, top) plus enough Masonite to cover the back, plus finishing nails.

I can hear you guys groaning now--how could I expect ten-foot-tall boards to remain plumb and parallel with no bracing at all? Well, they didn't--and where they bowed apart, the shelf supports failed and the shelves came crashing down, two or three levels at a time (just like that horrible balcony accident in Chicago last weekend).

The "solution"? shelf supports replaced by 2" angle irons. Mucho ugly, but it worked. That bookcase was moved into my new place when I married, cut down to 8' and with toe-kick installed (the bookcase, not me); moved again when we did, now with middle two bays cut down so it didn't dominate the living room; sawed into two free-standing small bookcases when we redecorated; and finally retired to my woodpile after 35 years of service in its various forms. Crummy construction (no joints, no glue, no screws) has its advantages!

How I do rattle on...

JTW

[David Rose]

I got it. I was considering the visible pin from the front of the shelf instead of from above it.

The "camming out" is one of those things that the ads don't tell you. ;-) And the only ones I have any experience with at all are the "L" shaped ones. I kind of like the looks of the flattened pins, but I can see how they might not be as strong with the thin sleeves for support.

I have gone (am going actually) to kind of extremes from discount house particle board furniture to all solid wood. I well understand your experience, though some of my junk has stood up amazingly well. Hey! Angle iron should make strong furniture. ;-) I almost used a piece of plywood for a cabinet back the other day, then took the slower way and did it where I will be happiest. I've still got to find a happy medium on my (obviously hobby) work.

David


David,

I like the Lee Valley two-part shelf pins because (1) the stud (or sleeve) is a very tight press fit, and thus has less tendency to cam out of its hole under strain, and (2) the visible part (the pin) is small and--to my eye--classier than the visible part of an L-shaped support. You can of course cut recesses in the shelf bottoms for either type, but I've never bothered except in the kitchen (where I worry that sliding heavy utensils out could also drag the shelf forward and off its rear supports).

Hey, I've got lots of the L-shaped ones, too--both in drilled holes and with routed-in channel supports. And I'll probably be knocking together some more soon, since we just sold our city apartment and moved another thousand books up here to our country home. So go with what you like, given the use and the balance between utility and "show."

My .02,

John