Fair price for a Laguna HD16?

[Peter Kelly]

Per the thread title, I've been looking at an ACM Laguna HD16. The saw includes Carter Guides, several spare blades, a Driftmaster and I suspect a 5hp Leeson motor. Machine looks to be in quite good condition and is located not too far from me so transportation would likely be pretty easy. The machine's nameplate indicates that this is a 2003 model machine which Laguna sold for $1,875 at that time + $400 for the Driftmaster, possibly $400 for the guides and some spare blades so figure $2,675 originally?

The seller is asking $2,250 which is steep for a 15 year old saw. Any thoughts on a fair price to offer would be appreciated.

[Andrew Hughes]

That does seem like too much. Unless the saw was used by some famous woodworker and could be tied to fabulous work.
Isnt it still a bandsaw that's still made?
I wouldn't t spend more then a half of new one. Or any used machine that's still being made

[Peter Kelly]

Yes, ACM still produces that exact model, Laguna charges significantly more now though at $3,750.

[Dave Sabo]

Yes, ACM still produces that exact model, Laguna charges significantly more now though at $3,750.

And with the mobility kit and driftmaster the replacement cost is over $4300. Plus tax, which is gonna amount to another couple of hundred in most areas.

What the guy paid for it in 2003 has little to do with the value today. Either you feel it's worth the asking price or you don't. When you go to sell your house, do you want me to offer you a little less than you paid for it ?

What else can you get for $1850 ? Will it have the capacity and a USA motor? If the guy is throwing in a carbide blade , that's worth another hundy. If you're in the market you should jump on it.

[Mike Kees]

Peter ,I too have been looking for a bandsaw like this Laguna. The only one 'local' to me was a HD18 ACM that was a 2004 model. The guy started his price at 4400 and worked down to 3900 over about six months. This saw was 4 hours away which for me in Alberta is local. Considering the new prices quoted by Dave I would buy it. Mike.

[Peter Kelly]

And with the mobility kit and driftmaster the replacement cost is over $4300. Plus tax, which is gonna amount to another couple of hundred in most areas.That's fine and well for a brand new machine, not a 15 year old one with an unknown history. To quote another member on this forum, "used is used".

Suppose I'll pass on this one.

[Mike Kees]

Peter, hope you find a good deal on one that you like. good luck,Mike.

[Bill Dufour]

Not sure if this has the transmission for wood speeds but it does have the tachometer so it has some variable speeds. It does not have the welder. there is another one in NY crags list with the welder but I think it is single speed. They probably weight twice as much as the one you are looking at. Their blade guides are viewed as the best standard type guides ever made.. Doall is still in business.
Bill D

https://longisland.craigslist.org/tls/d/doall-1612-band-saw/6558484728.html

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/tls/d/doall-16-band-saw/6568479795.html

[Peter Kelly]

Thanks. Shop space at my house upstate is extremely limited so I can't go a whole lot larger than a single phase 16" saw. Kills me as someone had a very clean 28" Bridgewood for sale in Saugerites and was asking just over a thousand.

Hoping SCM has some specials around IWF, ideally I want an MM16.

[Mike Wilkins]

Great machine, but the asking price is steep. I have had a LT18 since 2001 and no problems with it at all. I did replace the original Euro guides with the ceramic guides and a Resaw King blade. But after years of dealing with insurance claims and specifically contents claims, tools depreciate approximately 50% from new the first moment they are put to use.
Consider a new 14/12 Laguna to get an idea of value.

[Joe Jensen]

I sold a 10 year old one about 5 years ago for $1600 if memory serves.

[Dave Sabo]

Peter , you appear to be hung up in the "optics" of the price rather than focusing on the "value" of the item.

Used is used , but so what. Your house in the example I gave is "used" too. Does that make it less valuable ? First thing your agent is going to do is look at comps. What does a 3/2 or 4/3.5 or whatever you have on 1/2 acre go for in your area.

So, again "what kinda bandsaw can you buy for $1850" ? (the comps) How does whatever you can find compare with that laguna 16 ??? If the saw in question has a burnt up motor and the guides are broken and it's rusted and the bearings are shot - then of course it's not worth the asking price. But what it cost new, or how much the owner paid has little to do with its value today. Neither does "used" . The new car you buy at 9am this morning is used at 6pm and and that's how the insurer is going to look at it if you total it after dinner. But it not really used , is it ? New, used, are just terms really. Likewise a new "lemon" of a car isn't very good either is it ? Would that be better than my 6 mo. old model that's barely broken in and still has the plastic wrap on it ?

What if the guy paid nothing cause he won it in a contest ? Should he be giving it away because he has zero cost basis in it ? Some tools appreciate in value. My gramps' unisaw for example - and I've personally sold some festools for more than I paid. The buyers got exactly what they wanted, a good tool with a lower price than a comparable new version.

To Mike's point re: the 14/12 - A better comp would be the 14bx. That would be roughly $1850 after you get the 220v motor and the mobility kit on it. It's actually gonna be more $$$ than the $2250 16HD after you pay NY tax on it. Then you'll have to assemble it. And the motor will be a chinawaneese hotbox , not the american made workhorse on the 16hd. Throat and resaw capacity will be waaaaay less to. The frame will be way weaker too, meaning you can't tension as wide a blade for resawing. But it'll be shiny bright and new. If that's what's really important to you. And in ten years you'll likely be annoyed if someone offers you less than $900 for it.

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
I can't add anything to the discussion of appreciation/depreciation and what it sold for vs. what he's asking.

Is it located close enough that you can go look at it, fire it up, see how it cuts? If so, go see it.
If you love it, get it! Then enjoy the heck out of it every time you use it. That's a great saw.
If you feel like a negotiator, make the guy an offer, cash in hand, knowing the worst he can do is say no.
I've felt way more remorse about passing up on things by being my penny wise and pound foolish self, than I have about overpaying for a well made product. Be smarter than me.
Edwin

[Peter Kelly]

As I'd posted above, I've thought it over and would sooner put the money into the saw I really want which is an MM16 so am passing on the Laguna which would've been somewhat of a compromise.

Thanks all for the input.

[Joe Jensen]

Peter , you appear to be hung up in the "optics" of the price rather than focusing on the "value" of the item.

Used is used , but so what. Your house in the example I gave is "used" too. Does that make it less valuable ? First thing your agent is going to do is look at comps. What does a 3/2 or 4/3.5 or whatever you have on 1/2 acre go for in your area.

So, again "what kinda bandsaw can you buy for $1850" ? (the comps) How does whatever you can find compare with that laguna 16 ??? If the saw in question has a burnt up motor and the guides are broken and it's rusted and the bearings are shot - then of course it's not worth the asking price. But what it cost new, or how much the owner paid has little to do with its value today. Neither does "used" . The new car you buy at 9am this morning is used at 6pm and and that's how the insurer is going to look at it if you total it after dinner. But it not really used , is it ? New, used, are just terms really. Likewise a new "lemon" of a car isn't very good either is it ? Would that be better than my 6 mo. old model that's barely broken in and still has the plastic wrap on it ?

What if the guy paid nothing cause he won it in a contest ? Should he be giving it away because he has zero cost basis in it ? Some tools appreciate in value. My gramps' unisaw for example - and I've personally sold some festools for more than I paid. The buyers got exactly what they wanted, a good tool with a lower price than a comparable new version.

To Mike's point re: the 14/12 - A better comp would be the 14bx. That would be roughly $1850 after you get the 220v motor and the mobility kit on it. It's actually gonna be more $$$ than the $2250 16HD after you pay NY tax on it. Then you'll have to assemble it. And the motor will be a chinawaneese hotbox , not the american made workhorse on the 16hd. Throat and resaw capacity will be waaaaay less to. The frame will be way weaker too, meaning you can't tension as wide a blade for resawing. But it'll be shiny bright and new. If that's what's really important to you. And in ten years you'll likely be annoyed if someone offers you less than $900 for it.

Bravo, very well stated. This should be a sticky. I'm so tired of reading the posts on what percentage of new someone should pay.

[Dave Sabo]

As I'd posted above, I've thought it over and would sooner put the money into the saw I really want which is an MM16 so am passing on the Laguna which would've been somewhat of a compromise.

Thanks all for the input.

That might be the best reason for not getting something. If it doesn't meet your needs or isn't what you want - it won't matter how good a "deal" you can get on it.

I am curious what a MiniMax 16 has that would make it better than the 16HD though ?

[Peter Kelly]

If you look at the (Centauro) MM16, the dust port is located right below the table where the cutting is happening, (ACM) Laguna has the port at the bottom rear which I've read isn't terribly effective. The MM16 is also a bit more heavily built and doesn't have the glued-on tires that Laguna does which are a complete headache to replace.

I've bought a lot machinery from SCM over the years and have always been happy.

[Dave Sabo]

Fair point on the build. It's not as if the LT is light in the pants or won't produce great resaws. All other things being equal most will agree the MM has a bit stiffer frame. "which I've read isn't terribly effective" - best to see for yourself before believing everything you read.

The lower port isn't ineffective, but it does leave some dust on the table and a good bit under the lower guards. Having a single port under the lower guides is prob. a bit better , but the dust phobes want two (or three) ports. Lots of guys will add a collection point under the lower guides on a lot of bandsaws. I think Laguna's current 16 even has one there that could be ordered as parts if you didn't want to fab your own. Some guys even add a magnetic capture point on the table to collect dust at the cut. Something no saw comes with.

Seems to me there is more to a good bandsaw than where the dustport is and if this beam is stiffer than that one. Stiff enough is stiff enough - though I'm not trying to say frame stiffness and it's tension ability are not important.

Dust ports are easily made or changed or bought for little time and money. Larger motors are $$ and heavy to install. The driftmaster fence is $400+ so there's a lot of value right there if you into resawing. Not so much if you're cutting curves or processing bowl blanks. Older MM had dodgy switches, so be aware of that, and for a while some guys have reported bad luck with the guide system MM used. Just be aware of what you're looking at when MM16 pops up. They have drawbacks too.

MM is a great saw, SCMI has been up the street from me for decades with a brief trip to TX for awhile. They come up for sale from time to time on the used market, but you better be ready to pull the trigger as good examples don't last more than a few days. I just think that if one is in the market for a med. sized bandsaw today - that 16HD is a really good buy at 2250. If you can wait , might as well get exactly what you want.

[Edwin Santos]

The lower port isn't ineffective, but it does leave some dust on the table and a good bit under the lower guards. Having a single port under the lower guides is prob. a bit better , but the dust phobes want two (or three) ports. Lots of guys will add a collection point under the lower guides on a lot of bandsaws. I think Laguna's current 16 even has one there that could be ordered as parts if you didn't want to fab your own. Some guys even add a magnetic capture point on the table to collect dust at the cut. Something no saw comes with.



Hi,
IMO the best set up is two ports, one right below the table, and a second one where Laguna/ACM placed it. If there can only be one port, then the location on the Laguna is the better of the two. This is because the dust will naturally get drawn down under the table and into the wind current created by the rotation of the wheel. The port then grabs it at the bottom of this rotation, at about the 7 or 8 o'clock position viewed from the operator side of the machine. Without dust collection you will always find a dune of sawdust accumulated in this location.
Edwin