Sapele Panel Entry Door

[Bryan A Schmidt]

Good Morning,

I am still in the early stages of building an entry door for my house and I have a couple of questions.

I am building a door with tongue a tongue and groove panel built into a frame with windows on the top 1/3 of the door as well. I have a couple of finishing related questions, especially as it relates to wood movement.

Should I put any sort of caulk or anything in the tongue and groove to seal the door? This can apply to where the panel meets the rail as well.

Should I finish the panel separate from the rail and styles so that with expansion and contraction I don't get a crack in the finish around the perimeter?

Thanks a lot,

[lowell holmes]

I made a panel door front door for our house. I made the door in order to keep the three leaded glass panes in the upper section of the door. I made the bottom half of the door three vertical panels.
Each lower panel is two pieces of 5/8" (IIRC) with the inside face of each panel smooth. I placed a piece of plastic sheet between each set of lower panels. The door is about 12 years old in Dickinson
Texas and it sees direct sun every day. You might want to consider what the elements will do to your door.
OBTW, both the interior and exterior sides of the door are painted. My door is made of fir. The door has three square panels immediately below the glass and long panel below the square panels.

I did not seal between panels.

[Bryan A Schmidt]

I appreciate you getting back to me. I am putting this under a covered front porch that extends out about 4 feet in front of the front door. I will get some morning sun as I face south east but it is not bad. I have included a picture of a door similar to what I am looking to make. I looked at Douglas Fir but I found a good source for Sapele at a reasonable price and that helped my decision. I have been researching finishes and I decided on a Epifanes Matte finish that I think will look real pretty on the Sapele. I was planning on putting a light finish on the panel before it goes in the rails and styles to allow for expansion and contraction so that I don't end up with exposed wood if it contracts enough. At that point I was wondering if I would be better off finishing it completely before I put it in so that as it moves it doesn't cause a crack in the corner where it meets the rail anyway.

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[lowell holmes]

If I were to varnish an exterior door on the outside, I would use a marine grade varnish. Apparently Epifanes is that. You should be good.

[John TenEyck]

My advise is to follow Lowell's advise and make two separate panels so that they can move independently to avoid cracking. You may also want to consider using applied molding to hold the panels in place rather than permanently capturing them in the frame when you glue it up. That way you can remove the panels when they need to be refinished or if one should crack. I built this Sapele house door about a year ago, and that's how it was made.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4hvMejMMkFBJFyvetLSD4iSLyavH11OlBJeMbaVnT8Xh-qNq5gqD8zDaDhrbt2zSRYAKHs5AZyTVYKy8OFizrAQo5rBNi2W ZKLfFz1hEX_GRvhgBLUprEc6764WooUCoCPmQmax_6MvaLpn5a JPd1iWymAUR9OqfCiXTr37VMgJQtyHKUujPGbxU-DVZ882kO7n00QQguDKJnk3u3FJ5j8QG4KKfrQ9XjtEulqOXZOI 26Z7UFaLmEMl6kavuP4mRRq-TAmQsH2AGPOJy6zc9vNbVg8w-26XmHJYe9DhJLsBHZRolGhWvHslyPxbHLssN66qYx9lWRdwf5E du7rs4-SFh33PyRiPQzNYC7sCOEQuSMQ384IXt4VsZJi92JWrIBtWwkeG sktYBTkUCv0qRmb-9qt2YAOFaQpPyGFTEM5x63Smf9qsoRf2j_kYI5VdVTKqXdgQpk t_0LkobaeskrPxtLO2lj3HQxW5BKa9S9qaHt-2M2_J6F6-A--bj8pKFQ6zjELY_lxRgzTecu_qErW6nutC2v2ODIoPzN7FIjXH5 yMds67eDK6fVkrZOECCK8GizM0GtYeIlEsTlPiWLc2-HO4NtaUo3-kvDGotcEs_tRZ6D_xsUaPEh8X1SAOPwHLd0cWgBwDsgppKhXe2 S3SbpGNgT7ZYAUA=w470-h626-no

The finish on this door is Sikkens Cetol Door and Window finish. I chose it specifically because it chalks off so you won't have layer upon layer of finish after refinishing it several times. Epifanes is great stuff, but it's soft for a long time, and is a relatively thick finish, made even thicker after you add 3 or 4 new coats of finish over a few years.

John

[lowell holmes]

The glass on my door has the molding on the inside of the door.

[Andrew Hughes]

My advise is to follow Lowell's advise and make two separate panels so that they can move independently to avoid cracking. You may also want to consider using applied molding to hold the panels in place rather than permanently capturing them in the frame when you glue it up. That way you can remove the panels when they need to be refinished or if one should crack. I built this Sapele house door about a year ago, and that's how it was made.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4hvMejMMkFBJFyvetLSD4iSLyavH11OlBJeMbaVnT8Xh-qNq5gqD8zDaDhrbt2zSRYAKHs5AZyTVYKy8OFizrAQo5rBNi2W ZKLfFz1hEX_GRvhgBLUprEc6764WooUCoCPmQmax_6MvaLpn5a JPd1iWymAUR9OqfCiXTr37VMgJQtyHKUujPGbxU-DVZ882kO7n00QQguDKJnk3u3FJ5j8QG4KKfrQ9XjtEulqOXZOI 26Z7UFaLmEMl6kavuP4mRRq-TAmQsH2AGPOJy6zc9vNbVg8w-26XmHJYe9DhJLsBHZRolGhWvHslyPxbHLssN66qYx9lWRdwf5E du7rs4-SFh33PyRiPQzNYC7sCOEQuSMQ384IXt4VsZJi92JWrIBtWwkeG sktYBTkUCv0qRmb-9qt2YAOFaQpPyGFTEM5x63Smf9qsoRf2j_kYI5VdVTKqXdgQpk t_0LkobaeskrPxtLO2lj3HQxW5BKa9S9qaHt-2M2_J6F6-A--bj8pKFQ6zjELY_lxRgzTecu_qErW6nutC2v2ODIoPzN7FIjXH5 yMds67eDK6fVkrZOECCK8GizM0GtYeIlEsTlPiWLc2-HO4NtaUo3-kvDGotcEs_tRZ6D_xsUaPEh8X1SAOPwHLd0cWgBwDsgppKhXe2 S3SbpGNgT7ZYAUA=w470-h626-no

The finish on this door is Sikkens Cetol Door and Window finish. I chose it specifically because it chalks off so you won't have layer upon layer of finish after refinishing it several times. Epifanes is great stuff, but it's soft for a long time, and is a relatively thick finish, made even thicker after you add 3 or 4 new coats of finish over a few years.

John

I dont think I could ever get tired of looking at that door. It's so nice :)

[Jerry Miner]

Should I put any sort of caulk or anything in the tongue and groove to seal the door? This can apply to where the panel meets the rail as well.

No-- don't caulk the panel. It has to move, but do caulk the glass.


Should I finish the panel separate from the rail and styles so that with expansion and contraction I don't get a crack in the finish around the perimeter?

Yes, finish the T&G boards separately, so they can shrink without revealing any raw wood.

[Bryan A Schmidt]

Perfect, that helps a bunch. I am going to end up taking everybody's advice and resaw my panel boards for movement. That is a very pretty door, I hope mine looks half as good. I will post pictures as it comes together

[John TenEyck]

The glass on my door has the molding on the inside of the door.

The removable molding on my door is on the inside, too. What you see on the outside is glued in place, permanent.

John

[Jeff Duncan]

I hope you guys have better luck with sapele than I did. I used it once years ago and found it moved all over the place! Worst wood I've ever used and won't touch it again. I'd only use SA Mahogany for an entry door and not any of the knock-offs.

good luck,
JeffD

[Tom M King]

I would completely finish the panel, and inside of the stile and rail grooves, before assembly. If the glass is single pane, the inside surfaces need to have an exterior finish also. I do so many old sash with single panes, and the insides of those windows always need to have an exterior coating on them, if they get a coating. I may be the only person that does this, but I see so many old sash that have been painted on the inside with something other than exterior paint, and it always deteriorates faster than the outside. There will be condensation on the inside. For that reason, also if it's single pane, the molding needs to be finished all the way around.

I had to repair an entry door that was made over 200 years ago. It had Beaver fur around the panels. I'm not sure if it was originally felted, or poorly felted, but it was not felted when I took the door apart to replace parts.

[John TenEyck]

I hear you Jeff. I've had Sapele that's beautiful to work with, nice and stable before, during, and after working it. And I've had the stuff like you describe. Right or wrong I concluded that if a board has any twist, bow, etc. in it it's going to be a problem. Now I'm ruthless about only buying stuff that is dead flat and straight and haven't had any problems since.

John

[lowell holmes]

Fir is a good exterior door material.

[Bryan A Schmidt]

I appreciate everyones input, here is an update. I have cut everything and fit everything together, I will be ordering glass next week. I cut my panel down the middle to create two panels and I am planning on putting packing foam and aluminum foil between the panels for insulation. I have finished the panel with 5 coats of epifanes and I will glue up the frame this weekend and get some finish on that next week. The Sapele hasn't been bad to work with but it does move a lot. I have learned a lot doing this project and I appreciate you all.

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[Roger Marty]

did you use 8/4 solid Sapele?

[Bryan A Schmidt]

I used 8/4 for the frame and planed it down to 7/4 thickness. I used 5/4 for the panel and I will end up at about 4/4 including the foam between the panels.

[Bryan A Schmidt]

Good Morning guys,

I thank you for your help with putting this project together. I learned a lot and took a lot of your suggestions into account. I split my panel into two parts and put them back to back with foam between them. The frame is put together with mortise and tenon about 2.5" deep and the glass is double pane. Both the panel and the glass are put in with a frame on the inside that is nailed in place so that either one of them can be replaced. I appreciate the input that everyone gave me and look forward to the next project.

388455388460388465

[lowell holmes]

Bryan,

That is a door to be proud of. I finished a door in Galveston County one time with varnish. The Texas sun did a number on it.
Your door is under a porch, so that is not an issue.

[Reinis Kanders]

Looks great.