Trimming Rails on Cabinet Doors

[Brad Keen]

I'm working on a set of 6 cabinet doors. I left the rails intentionally long but will need to cut them after gluing it up. I was just curious if there are any tips on doing this? I had thought that a flush cut saw would be a great tool for the job, but the guys at Woodcraft said that this wasn't the best approach.

My plan had been to use the flush cut saw and then use a low angle block plane if necessary. But the end grain is tricky, and I'm new to this, and I really don't want to blow out the bottom after all that effort.

Thanks! I've attached pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.

[Lee Schierer]

I usually trim them on my table saw, but if I were going to use just hand tools, I would mark the cut line and use a flush cut saw. You could use a hand plane, but would need to plane toward the center of the door or clamp a sacrificial strip to prevent tear out.

[George Bokros]

Why not trim them before glue up?

[Bill McNiel]

FWIW -I typically run the rails a little long

Hand tools - 12 pt crosscut saw leaving the line, block plane from each end.

Power - Track Saw excels at this and is faster

[Jim Koepke]

Mine are usually left a little proud and then trimmed with a block plane:

384352

Take care when close to the stile as the grain might be going the other way.

jtk

[steven c newman]

One...I seem to recall those are known as Stiles....and the part left long is known as a horn. Use a back saw, like a tenon saw, to trim the horns flush to the rails. Use a knife wall to guide the saw. Knife all the way around. Saw and then clean up with a block plane IF need be. BTDT.

[Bill McNiel]

One...I seem to recall those are known as Stiles....and the part left long is known as a horn. Use a back saw, line a tenon saw, to trim the horns flush to the rails. Use a knife wall to guide the saw. Knife all the way around. Saw and then clean up with a block plane IF need be. BTDT.

The vertical elements are "Stiles", the horizontal elements are "Rails", I wasn't paying attention and just continued with the OP's nomenclature.

[Brad Keen]

Oh, sorry about the rails/stiles mixup. And thanks for the tips. That should help

[Jim Koepke]

Oh, sorry about the rails/stiles mixup. And thanks for the tips. That should help

Do the names change if the structure is rotated 90º on the bench? :D

jtk

[david charlesworth]

If not confident about sawing, clamp a block to guide the start of the cut so you can't damage the main frame. This should help to keep you square as well.

David Charlesworth

[Brad Keen]

I think I'll do that, because I am definitely NOT confident about my sawing.

[Jeff Heath]

Do the names change if the structure is rotated 90º on the bench? :D

jtk

Yes, but then the door would be built incorrectly. Of course, you already know that.......

[Jim Koepke]

Yes, but then the door would be built incorrectly. Of course, you already know that.......

Also my question was partly a joke since my piece being planed was rotated 90º on the bench to trim the excess rail.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

But. . . ...isn't it a pleasure to take a very sharp block plane and shave end grain off of stiles? :)

[Jim Koepke]

But. . . ...isn't it a pleasure to take a very sharp block plane and shave end grain off of stiles? :)

It's not my style... :eek:

jtk

[steven c newman]

Why stop at just one block of wood, to guide a saw?
384425
When you can have two boards AND a metal guide? Clamp this to each stile where you need to make a cut, align the guide to the cut line, and trim the horn....move to the next spot, and repeat. GEM Mitre Box, and..you can cut from both sides.

[Pat Barry]

I have no idea why it would be better to leave them long and trim them down after glue-up. Doing this seems backwards. Seems to me the dimension you are looking for is plainly evident as the length of the stiles fit into the door opening. I would cut them first to proper length and then glue them up and use their proper length as the gauge for aligning the rails.

[lowell holmes]

If you had small Lee Valley block plane that I have, it might become your style/:rolleyes:

[Warren Lake]

trained guys leave them long then cut them down, they do make doors to width at least the old guys ive known. They also make the bottom rail wider on all lower cabinets.

[Pat Barry]

trained guys leave them long then cut them down, they do make doors to width at least the old guys ive known. They also make the bottom rail wider on all lower cabinets.
I can see leaving the stiles a bit long so you can trim to size assuming you have the rails fit to that same position, so you are trimming both the stiles and the rail all together. Otherwise it still makes no sense to just have the stiles long.

[Warren Lake]

rail wider styles longer then they adjust fit it to the face frame. on the big level volume wise I was told they sometimes had a jig for face frames so everyone is exactly the same, then even a jig so when the doors were edge sanded they all came out the same and matched the face frames all the gaps would be consistent.

[steven c newman]

Stiles are made LONG, as there leaves enough "meat" on the ends to chop mortises, without blowing out the ends. Simple as that.

[Jim Koepke]

Stiles are made LONG, as there leaves enough "meat" on the ends to chop mortises, without blowing out the ends. Simple as that.

Wouldn't the same hold true if the piece is made with mortises in the rails?

jtk

[John Schtrumpf]

Stiles are made LONG, as there leaves enough "meat" on the ends to chop mortises, without blowing out the ends. Simple as that.
Wouldn't the same hold true if the piece is made with mortises in the rails?

jtk
The same is true whenever a mortise will be close enough to the end of a piece that blow out may be a problem. Leave the piece long, chop the mortise, and cut to length after.

[James Pallas]

More reasons to leave the long. The mortise blow out for sure. When the mortises are haunches the rail ends can be crushed when glueing and clamping. When you are making many doors it also gives you something to set them on so they don't get beat up moving them around during the process. This is essential for full size heavy doors. The horns are usually cut off when the door is hinged and set. Until they started nailing scraps to the bottom of doors entry doors were sent to the job with the horns still on the bottom for protection. The finish carpenter cut them off when fitting the door to the opening. It's easy mark it knife the line and saw it off with a back saw plane a bevel on it from each side if necessary for fitting.
Jim

[Warren Lake]

"The mortise blow out for sure. When the mortises are haunches the rail ends can be crushed when glueing and clamping"

can you explain that ive never had a mortise blow out or an issue with a haunch and had one on every door, its just a continuation of the slot cut for the panel. Im talking a mortise machine not hand work and cabinet to armoire sized doors. The blow out I assume is possible from doing them by hand., the haunch thing im not following. On the cabinet sized stuff we were taught just make them an 1/8 longer each end then cross cut them to fit.

[Jim Koepke]

On the cabinet sized stuff we were taught just make them an 1/8 longer each end then cross cut them to fit.

It is always easier to deal with a piece that is a bit too long than one that is a bit too short.

jtk

[Brad Keen]

This is the first time I've made cabinet doors (also my first major woodworking project). So I followed Paul Seller's advice with the extra length. I believe that he suggested leaving them long because it protected the bottom of the door as you waited to install it. Which made a lot of sense to me. Also, I've appreciated having the horn available to disassemble the frames. I put them together before gluing just to make sure everything fits. And then I can tap on the horn to take it apart. So that's my experience with that. I'll definitely leave them long if I make something like this again.

Now, whether or I would cut them to length before the final glue-up. That's a good question, and I'll think about it. But as Jim said, it (should be) easier to trim it down than it would be to make it longer, and at this stage in my skills, that seems about right.