How does Advertising and Promotion Influence You?

[Andrew Joiner]

It seems like every image or theme I see is put there by some interest who paid to put it there. I ask myself who wants me to believe this and why?
Unless I'm talking to a friend, or outside in the wild I'm a potential target. Everyone is after eyeballs these days.

For a long time there was an hour of local and national news a day. Now with 24 hour news channels could advertising and promotion be the main culprit behind "fake news" on either side of an issue? To sell ads and grab eyeballs you've got to make something into "breaking news".

Didn't Facebook's troubles start from the need for advertising revenue and selling data to influence people?

I did some research on a big medical decision 15 years ago. I was getting info from the internet that seemed unbiased. As I looked deeper I found most of the websites were run by the drug company that provided the "only" treatment I needed. They call this "astroturfing" it's a common practice. I was skeptical and got true unbiased info that was a lifesaver for me.

I'm old enough to make my own decisions. I do love Sawmillcreek's ads, but most advertisers and salespeople don't like me:p.

[John Lanciani]

People need to realize that if they are not the customer they are the product, period. Nothing in life is free.

[Art Mann]

Fake news is generated by ideologues whose cause is unpersuasive if only the truth is told.

[Mike Cary]

Marketing does not affect people over 35 much. By that age brand loyalty and experience is too hard to overcome. Most marketing is designed for heads filled with mush.

[Tom M King]

Being 68, I can concur with what Mike just posted. If everyone was like me, there would be no such thing as salespeople, or advertising-at least not on the internet.

[Matt Day]

Why not cough up $6 to be a contributor and make all those ads will go away?

[Doug Garson]

I'll tell you how one type of marketing influences me. I am less inclined to buy a product if it has a celebrity endorsement. If a product has a celebrity endorsement I assume the celebrity is receiving a payment for each item sold so unless I know the celebrity is donating all the payments to a charitable cause I would be less likely to buy the product. If I did buy the product it would be despite the endorsement.

[Brian Henderson]

Advertising doesn't affect me because most of it I don't see. I use ad blockers and if I have to see it, I just ignore it. I've been ignoring it for so long that I honestly don't even know it's going on most of the time. I just tune it out automatically.

[glenn bradley]

Just like NEWS headlines or NEWS-Show trailers, advertisements are there to catch your ear or eye. They affect me by making me aware of something that might be interesting. I always vet everything myself.

[Karl Andersson]

Advertising and promotion, when obvious (like celebrity endorsements), affect me by making me disregard it. Like probably many here, I don’t look for advertisements to sell me, I look for specifications – and thanks to the internet, I look for customer reviews. Some of them may be faked, but it doesn't seem so for the products I look for (mostly tools and repair parts).

It is often hard to find real specifications, though – and when a product like a tool has poorly-written specs or missing details, I often pass it by because I feel the makers aren’t invested in their product; they may just be making a knockoff of the real thing. It is nearly impossible to find actual specs on something like a raincoat unless it was made for climbing Mt. Everest, but you can find reviews.

When I went to buy my new truck a couple of years ago, I wanted a few performance-related features but the manufacturers would only really list navigation systems, seat textiles, and the ease of ability to control truck features with an iPhone. You really had to look to find information on gearing, hauling capacity, etc. The best place for information like that was on owner’s forums (fora), where you quickly learn the “common knowledge” failures and features of a brand or a product.

I wouldn’t go laying advertising susceptibility at the feet of the young; they’re surely not the only ones. I’ve had to ‘see’ (not watch) daytime TV while undergoing physical therapy lately and all the advertising is geared for mature audiences, from laundry detergent to memory enhancers, non-prescription erectile dysfunction cures to elder-care facilities. Someone is buying that stuff, and it isn’t millennials.

Marketing is a huge business and thanks to so many people being 'accessible' now almost every minute through their phones, there are countless ways for them to be influenced- Facebook sites, fake news, spoofing/ viral rumors, phone marketing, spam, phishing, etc., etc.. Practical people spend consciously, but so many people today don't - they spend reflexively, and that leads to all this marketing garbage we have to deal with. It's not evil, it's the market the majority of consumers have created by responding to that kind of marketing. Just like Wal-Mart; it wouldn't exist if most people didn't value cheapness over quality or country of origin.

well, that's my opinion at least.

[Jim Becker]

I can say that "in general", most advertising doesn't compel me to go out and make a purchase, but that statement would be incomplete in that sometimes some advertising does help me identify choices and do more research. Some advertising these days is pretty entertaining, too, even when it's not for something I'm remotely interested in.

Marketing is an essential part of any business. There are responsible advertisers and there are reprehensible advertisers along with a whole lot that are somewhere in the middle, depending on the phase of the moon, etc.

[Andrew Joiner]

Like probably many here, I don’t look for advertisements to sell me, I look for specifications – and thanks to the internet, I look for customer reviews. Some of them may be faked, but it doesn't seem so for the products I look for (mostly tools and repair parts).
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Yes Karl, you sound like me.

I made things for a living and was self employed. Many here make things too. Maybe that's why we're skeptical of ads.

As a maker, specifications can equate to $. I'd often bid 2 prices, plain and deluxe. Deluxe was called Museum Quality as I got better at marketing:).
When your a Maker you look at what's in things and what holds them together.
If it's products on Amazon or the grocery store shelf I look at the specs or ingredients list not the LABEL. Your buying the ingredients.

fakespot dotcom is a review of Amazon reviews. My tests of it with products I own prove it's worth using.

[Marshall Harrison]

It's pretty much a given these days that you will be bombarded by advertising. I stopped with my wife this morning to gas up her car. The gas pump had a display screen that was running a sports talk show and commercials. On a gas pump no less. What's this world coming to when people need to be entertained while pumping gas?

I refuse to but anything even if I needed to from some entity that has irritated me. The other night my favorite show (Last Man Standing) was preempted for an infomercial on the upcoming Parade of Homes event. At that moment I made the decision to not attend the Parade this year. It aggravated me to have my show preempted.

[Carlos Alvarez]

My household hasn't had regular TV in 15 years, so we're not exposed to ads and the garbage between shows, or the "news" that is just selling you BS and fake news. It's such a huge feeling of freedom when you're not caught up in the cycle of garbage and hype. Our kid never asked for the hottest new must-have toy because he wasn't being told he needed it. Etc. I also run ad-blocking on both the computers and devices as well as our main home router. Nothing gets through.

When I'm exposed to advertising, I feel angry at the company that foisted it upon me, and think less of them.

[Edwin Santos]

Fake news is generated by ideologues whose cause is unpersuasive if only the truth is told.

Another way of looking at your comment is that news is deemed "fake" when the news outlet's version of the truth is different than the recipient's version of the truth. We live in a time when you can pick and choose the truth you want to hear and consider everything else fake.

Back to marketing, I think the whole science of neuro marketing is very interesting. Basically this field uses functional MRI to study how people's brains react to messages and stimuli in subconscious and subliminal ways that are not necessarily apparent to us. This near involuntary part of the brain is called the Reptilian brain and it is highly influential over our decisions. You cannot control the deep brain chemistry activity and trick the MRI unless you are a tibetan monk capable of going into a very unique deep state of meditation.

My point - most of us are much more heavily influenced by sophisticated marketing than we think (or than we'd like to think). This has been proven to apply to all demographic groups, and all ages, including those over 35.
Edwin

[Jim Koepke]

For SMC, my ad blocker is off to help generate some revenue beyond my annual dues. It can not only be time consuming to run a website, but people and bills have to be paid.

Most of our regular television programs are recorded to allow us to zip through commercials. Sadly, some commercials are better entertainment than some of the programing they support.

Occasionally there are ads that have interest to me. Currently one running here for Lee Valley caught my eye. For some reason the LV news letter stopped coming to my mailbox, so it was restarted.

There have been a lot of ads for home delivered mattresses on TV. Our mattress was rather old and getting lumpy. My wife did the research and was thinking of a particular mattress. She asked me about it and was wondering if it was right for us. My advice was to check the reviews. Oops! The online reviews were not too good. After digging around a bit she found one with rather good reviews for which we hadn't seen any ads on TV. That was the one we bought and it has been giving us a much better night's sleep since. So those ads got us to buy, just not the brand that was being advertised.

Fake products, fake news and other forms of fakery will exist as long as there are people who do not want to be troubled with taking the time to do a little research or alternate sourcing. One thing that garners my appreciation with a news program is when they come back at a later date to clarify something they didn't report correctly. Some news outlets will be all over something for days and then just let it quietly fade off when it is exposed that they got it wrong. When people can be scammed by fake news, the advertisers know they can be convinced to buy fake products. Sadly, because of the wide audience and how advertising time is purchased, legitimate products end up in the mix to add credence to the "bottom feeders."

This reminds me of a former coworker who was showing me an object that looked like a hand plane. When told it was a piece of junk he replied, "yes, but it was cheap." Buying things that will never work is actually rather expensive in my book.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

On a funny aside to advertising, because my wife occasionally buys clothing including swimwear and undergarments online, often my screen is inundated with ads directed at her.

My question is does she wonder why she is getting ads for a saw vise or band saw blades?

jtk

[Carlos Alvarez]

My point - most of us are much more heavily influenced by sophisticated marketing than we think (or than we'd like to think). This has been proven to apply to all demographic groups, and all ages, including those over 35.
Edwin

Yup, agreed. One of my long-time clients is a marketing research company and I've learned a lot from them. Which is why I make sure to protect our household from as much advertising as possible. No live TV, no broadcast radio, nothing with ads enters our lives.

[Rod Sheridan]

It's pretty much a given these days that you will be bombarded by advertising. I stopped with my wife this morning to gas up her car. The gas pump had a display screen that was running a sports talk show and commercials. On a gas pump no less. What's this world coming to when people need to be entertained while pumping gas?



Even worse Marshall, a few weeks ago I went to the washroom in a pub.

When I walked up to the urinal, what I thought was a bulletin board turned on. They had a captive audience for a minute of their advertising.

Seriously? A monitor above a urinal for advertising?

Regards, Rod.

[Chase Mueller]

Even worse Marshall, a few weeks ago I went to the washroom in a pub.

When I walked up to the urinal, what I thought was a bulletin board turned on. They had a captive audience for a minute of their advertising.

Seriously? A monitor above a urinal for advertising?

Regards, Rod.

Wonder if there was a camera too..:confused:

[Carlos Alvarez]

And many gas pumps in CA now have that same garbage. I respect private property, but I really do want to put my pocket knife through the thing. I just avoid those stations. Luckily I haven't seen one here in AZ yet. Maybe they figure we'd just shoot them?

[Dennis Peacock]

I pay ZERO attention to advertising and promotions.

[Jim Becker]

Even worse Marshall, a few weeks ago I went to the washroom in a pub.

When I walked up to the urinal, what I thought was a bulletin board turned on. They had a captive audience for a minute of their advertising.

Seriously? A monitor above a urinal for advertising?

Regards, Rod.

Those things have been around for years now...

[John C Cox]

The interesting thing is that often, the most successful "marketing" works by confirming pre-existing biases...

Here's a good hypothetical example of how this works....

It's a week before the paycheck and I am grumbling about spending too much money on stupid things.... On pops an ad for paper towels... And it's message is: Stop paying for the rolls royce of paper towels when all you need is to clean up a spill and throw it out... Ding! Great idea.. I know the ultimate end of a paper towel is the dump... Why should I pay for all this unnecessary "quality"..... Here's a chance for me to do what I already wanted to do - aka save some money on unnecessary stuff like expensive premium reusable paper towels that will survive a nuclear attack and outlast cockroaches... And so next time I go shopping - I will be looking for that brand...

See how that works. Confirmation bias that my idea was a good one in the first place... I *was* smart and my idea was a good one...

And it turns out that this is how "fake" news works... You cook up a story that has some true facts in it which confirms what people already wanted to believe (such as that they are smart, make the good decisions, and have a reasonable world view).... For example - I would completely fall for a fake woodworking chisel review that pans Aldi and Harbor freight chisels qnd then ranked a couple more common familiar chisels in "average" performance because that's my experience... And they *then* have enough of my trust to spring their champion chisel on me which I must now rush straight out and buy....

But it works the opposite way too... Take for example a different fake news chisel "review" which pans several people's favorite user chisels and then ranks one on top along side a couple obvious losers... Many people would dismiss the entire article out of hand - and further more - this diminishes their perception of the one that came out on top..... Say now Ashley Iles and Two Cherries come out mid pack, Aldi and Harbor Freight come in 2nd and 3rd place.. Then my chisel on top.. Everybody knows this is preposterous, and linking my chisel with those diminishes it's reputation...

[Carlos Alvarez]

The interesting thing is that often, the most successful "marketing" works by confirming pre-existing biases...

I've heard that many times, and it must work on some people. It makes me like a company less even if I liked it and used their products already. If an ad tells me something that I already know or believe, I'll think I was wrong and it must be a lie.

[John C Cox]

So you would stop drinking your favorite beer because you saw the brewer advertised it? That's a strange place to live my friend... ;) ;)

[Chase Mueller]

So you would stop drinking your favorite beer because you saw the brewer advertised it? That's a strange place to live my friend... ;) ;)


That, good sir, entirely depends on the platform of the add. Typically, if any company very blatantly takes a political stance, I refuse to buy their product.
Hence why Wal-Mart and Bass Pro will never get my business again if I can help it.

[Carlos Alvarez]

So you would stop drinking your favorite beer because you saw the brewer advertised it? That's a strange place to live my friend... ;) ;)

LOL, I don't have a favorite anything really, but it's very unlikely that the local craft beers I prefer would be advertised. And I didn't say I'd avoid the product, but I'd think less of the company and I'd assume I need to at least reconsider my choices.

[John C Cox]

That, good sir, entirely depends on the platform of the add. Typically, if any company very blatantly takes a political stance, I refuse to buy their product.
Hence why Wal-Mart and Bass Pro will never get my business again if I can help it.

I get that... And while you could equate a company's overt political support or activism for/against some cause with "virtue signaling" and hence "marketing" as such... I don't really think that's what this is about.... Maybe it is...

Another question...
Do you consider rejecting Lee Valley because they sponsor the forum with banner ads? I don't... And their free shipping ads pull me in like a moth to the flame....

Typically - the way "good" ads work is to convince you to put a little more consideration into something you already wanted to do... Like the Lee Valley free shipping banner ads.... I already wanted some of their fine zoot... This just sort of pushes it up over the top.... Or at worst - think no worse about the product/company... Like their April Fools ads - which put a funny spin on a cool and useful product... I giggle like a little girl every time I watch the video for their marking gages with "irrational" size gage blocks like e/(square root of 2).....

[Norman Pirollo]

On a funny aside to advertising, because my wife occasionally buys clothing including swimwear and undergarments online, often my screen is inundated with ads directed at her.

My question is does she wonder why she is getting ads for a saw vise or band saw blades?

jtk

This makes me think. We can log in to our wife's computer and search for a fancy tool we are interested in buying. Then wife gets bombarded with the ads and this plants a seed. A good idea just before Christmas or a birthday... lol

Norman

[Carlos Alvarez]

So there I was, sitting on my boat at the dock. The wife and a few ladies from nearby boats were sitting around having drinks and chatting about a certain adult toy. All of the ladies decided I should place an Amazon order on their behalf, as most of them didn't use it and/or didn't have Amazon Prime. Imagine my Amazon recommendations after order a bunch of those...

Also, the conversations next weekend were interesting.

[Pat Barry]

That, good sir, entirely depends on the platform of the add. Typically, if any company very blatantly takes a political stance, I refuse to buy their product.
Hence why Wal-Mart and Bass Pro will never get my business again if I can help it.

Now i need to know what political stance these companies take. Also, why it matters

[Art Mann]

I am a contributor and could disable the ads. I also have an ad blocker for my browser that is highly effective. I don't do that for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think some of the links lead to information about products in which I am interested. Secondly, I have read that SMC gets some financial benefit from the ads, especially if I buy something through a link from the forums.

I will answer Pat Barry's question of why it matters whether I trade with companies whose views differ from my own. In this day and time, money is influence. I don't want to contribute to the profits of a business that uses them to promote ideas and policies with which I disagree. If everyone had the same attitude as Chase and myself, companies which promote things a majority thinks are bad would wither. That is a good thing.

[John C Cox]

This makes me think. We can log in to our wife's computer and search for a fancy tool we are interested in buying. Then wife gets bombarded with the ads and this plants a seed. A good idea just before Christmas or a birthday... lol

Norman

unfortunately my friend - "Our side" is not nearly as saavy when it comes to advertising and product placement.... You go searching for Lee Valley planes and Barr chisels on her computer and she is likely to be inundated with ads for industrial pressure washers, log splitters, and Imported tractors....

[Carlos Alvarez]

I am a contributor and could disable the ads. I also have an ad blocker for my browser that is highly effective. I don't do that for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think some of the links lead to information about products in which I am interested. Secondly, I have read that SMC gets some financial benefit from the ads, especially if I buy something through a link from the forums.

I will answer Pat Barry's question of why it matters whether I trade with companies whose views differ from my own. In this day and time, money is influence. I don't want to contribute to the profits of a business that uses them to promote ideas and policies with which I disagree. If everyone had the same attitude as Chase and myself, companies which promote things a majority thinks are bad would wither. That is a good thing.

So you actually do click on ads? I've never clicked one in my life, and am kind of surprised to hear that anyone does.

[Tom Stenzel]

So you actually do click on ads? I've never clicked one in my life, and am kind of surprised to hear that anyone does.

I've clicked on plenty of "ads", by that I mean the links in postings by members. Like Bridge City or Woodpecker tools that are being discussed for whatever reason. I'll probably never own a Bridge City tool but it's nice to look. Still to me that qualifies as an ad of sorts.

There's a few SMC ads that I've clicked on that look interesting. It hasn't killed me yet.

-Tom

[Tom Stenzel]

So there I was, sitting on my boat at the dock. The wife and a few ladies from nearby boats were sitting around having drinks and chatting about a certain adult toy. All of the ladies decided I should place an Amazon order on their behalf, as most of them didn't use it and/or didn't have Amazon Prime. Imagine my Amazon recommendations after order a bunch of those...

Also, the conversations next weekend were interesting.


I'm getting a boat. My boat-less discussions are a whole lot less interesting!

-Tom

[Carlos Alvarez]

I've clicked on plenty of "ads", by that I mean the links in postings by members. Like Bridge City or Woodpecker tools that are being discussed for whatever reason. I'll probably never own a Bridge City tool but it's nice to look. Still to me that qualifies as an ad of sorts.



I think that's the exact opposite of an ad, and does have value. I click links from real humans all the time, just not ads. If YOU tell me about a product you really like, I'm going to believe you. If an ad tells me something, I figure it's a lie until proven otherwise.

[Andrew Joiner]

Ever wonder why most insurance ads are so silly? Why don't insurance companies just say our product is better or cheaper? Here's my theory.

I get quotes on all my insurance every 3 years. I've learned insurance companies don't reward loyalty, they charge you more the longer you stay with them.

I avoid the companies that have the most adds when getting quotes. By law your getting the same coverage or product from every company. Advertising costs money so the more adds the more they need to charge for insurance.

My wife managed 2 different national branded gas stations at the same time. There were lots of ads at the time saying each brand was better. They ads painted the similar picture that brand x was " better for your engine" or "gave you more performance" Both brands averaged 15% higher at the pump. The same bulk delivery truck always filled both different brands and the discount non- branded station down the street with the exact same gasoline. I'm guessing all those ads cost enough they had to charge 15% more.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Arco was "the cheap gas" for a long time. I know that gas is all the same, but a shocking number of my friends and family thought there was a difference, and refused to use Arco. So now Arco invented their fake "top tier gas" marketing campaign to convince people that...well, it's all the same gas...

American Family has rewarded us for being a customer for over 15 years. They actually have increased coverage and reduced costs without being asked. When we shop it, they are always competitive. When we've had claims, EVERY time they have gone well beyond what we expected. The coverage may look the same, but I've also had a claim with a company that took months to get taken care and they never got it right. So they are not all the same.

[Pat Barry]

Ever wonder why most insurance ads are so silly? Why don't insurance companies just say our product is better or cheaper? Here's my theory.

I get quotes on all my insurance every 3 years. I've learned insurance companies don't reward loyalty, they charge you more the longer you stay with them.

I avoid the companies that have the most adds when getting quotes. By law your getting the same coverage or product from every company. Advertising costs money so the more adds the more they need to charge for insurance.

My wife managed 2 different national branded gas stations at the same time. There were lots of ads at the time saying each brand was better. They ads painted the similar picture that brand x was " better for your engine" or "gave you more performance" Both brands averaged 15% higher at the pump. The same bulk delivery truck always filled both different brands and the discount non- branded station down the street with the exact same gasoline. I'm guessing all those ads cost enough they had to charge 15% more.
I've got Farmers insurance (home, auto, etc). Have been with them for years, probably 20 +. I never compared prices and will not. Why, because every claim I've had has been dealt with absolutley perfect manner. No reason to switch, even if I could save a few measly bucks. I think there is merit to being loyal.

[Dave Lehnert]

I've got Farmers insurance (home, auto, etc). Have been with them for years, probably 20 +. I never compared prices and will not. Why, because every claim I've had has been dealt with absolutley perfect manner. No reason to switch, even if I could save a few measly bucks. I think there is merit to being loyal.



I felt the same as you. I was with the same insurance company for around 30 years.
My insurance bill was due last fall and it went up again so I got a quote just to compare.
I was getting way over charged. So bad my new agent stayed almost two hours after closing to keep checking her figures. She was concerned she had made a mistake.
Was not just a few measly bucks. Was over $1,000 a year.

[Jim Becker]

By law your getting the same coverage or product from every company.

This is not accurate. They all must provide the same minimum coverages are required by the particular state's insurance commission, but there is, in fact, a lot of variability in coverage between companies and individual policies, both for auto insurance and for homeowner's insurance. Sometimes it's the "little things" that separate the better choice from others, not necessarily raw cost.

That said, I did make a carrier change in our insurance two years ago when the auto insurance company I had been using for years (at very competitive rates) suddenly wanted "the mint" when my younger daughter got her license. They became the most expensive of all I got quotes from. AAA beat everybody and I moved our home and umbrella to them for even greater savings.

[Dave Lehnert]

I did not read through all the post above.
The only ads I hate are the ones that pop up when you are trying to read a story or the like. Keeps moving the print around. News web pages seem to be the worse.

Having said that I don't mind seeing ads. I have gotten some great deals that way.
Just yesterday an ad came up on my facebook page. I am doing research on buying a new bicycle. The ad yesterday was for a bike brand that I was unaware of and "Look" to be just what I been interested in. I need to do some more research but glad I saw the ad and now have another choice.

[Andrew Joiner]

This is not accurate. They all must provide the same minimum coverages are required by the particular state's insurance commission, but there is, in fact, a lot of variability in coverage between companies and individual policies, both for auto insurance and for homeowner's insurance. Sometimes it's the "little things" that separate the better choice from others, not necessarily raw cost.

That said, I did make a carrier change in our insurance two years ago when the auto insurance company I had been using for years (at very competitive rates) suddenly wanted "the mint" when my younger daughter got her license. They became the most expensive of all I got quotes from. AAA beat everybody and I moved our home and umbrella to them for even greater savings.
What I mean Jim is when you get a policy for say $500 deductible and $500,000 liability that's what you get. That's regulated by the state here.

[Carlos Alvarez]

What I mean Jim is when you get a policy for say $500 deductible and $500,000 liability that's what you get. That's regulated by the state here.

But that's like saying that Harbor Freight is required by law to provide you with a jointer when you pay for a jointer. So they must be exactly the same as the Powermatic jointer, right?

[Andrew Joiner]

But that's like saying that Harbor Freight is required by law to provide you with a jointer when you pay for a jointer. So they must be exactly the same as the Powermatic jointer, right?

I don't get your comparison. States regulate insurance for a reason. They don't regulate jointers. Do you have some examples of an insurance company that offers more or less coverage if the policy lists the same coverage amounts?

[Carlos Alvarez]

I don't get your comparison. States regulate insurance for a reason. They don't regulate jointers. Do you have some examples of an insurance company that offers more or less coverage if the policy lists the same coverage amounts?

My point is that the dollar level of coverage is only one facet of the decision. The feds regulate that a jointer must be a jointer (Magnusson-Moss warranty act and others), but the customer service, quality, and many other factors can and do vary. Buying insurance purely on $x for $y coverage is not smart. I've learned this through personal experience. Nobody regulated that company A had to be as awesome as they were, or that company B couldn suck as much as they did, during a claim.

[Andrew Joiner]

My point is that the dollar level of coverage is only one facet of the decision. The feds regulate that a jointer must be a jointer (Magnusson-Moss warranty act and others), but the customer service, quality, and many other factors can and do vary. Buying insurance purely on $x for $y coverage is not smart. I've learned this through personal experience. Nobody regulated that company A had to be as awesome as they were, or that company B couldn suck as much as they did, during a claim.
Ok I get it. I guess I'm lucky. I've had about 10 insurance companies. In my experience all claims have been treated about the same.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Ok I get it. I guess I'm lucky. I've had about 10 insurance companies. In my experience all claims have been treated about the same.

I've had good experiences (Progressive), amazingly great (American Family), and absolutely horrible (some name I can't remember, not a major one). I'd probably think Progressive was really good if not for the amazingly great service from American Family. They are a few hundred/year more for the combo house/car/umbrella compared to another company. Don't care. We shop them for sanity, but it would take more than a few hundred a year to make us change.

EDITED TO ADD: This year we had a letter from Progressive telling us our agreed value on the motorhome dropped due to depreciation, and a letter from American Family saying they were raising our home coverage to better meet our expectations in case of a total loss. Price stayed the same with both. Hmmm...

[Keith Outten]

Lets get back on topic please. This is not a thread about insurance.

[Lee DeRaud]

Just yesterday an ad came up on my facebook page. I am doing research on buying a new bicycle. The ad yesterday was for a bike brand that I was unaware of and "Look" to be just what I been interested in. I need to do some more research but glad I saw the ad and now have another choice.I can live with that, what bothers me is getting bombarded by ads for something I just bought, usually from whoever I just bought it from.

[Carlos Alvarez]

They don't know you bought it, just that you were looking. The ad networks are not related to actual customer accounts at all.

The bicycle thing is exactly the example of why ads should be blocked. I don't want to see a junk bike you want me to buy while I'm researching what *I* want to buy.

[Lee DeRaud]

They don't know you bought it, just that you were looking. The ad networks are not related to actual customer accounts at all.And the vendor I just purchased from pays them for doing that? That's the kind of thing that gives "inefficient" a bad name.

[Carlos Alvarez]

And the vendor I just purchased from pays them for doing that? That's the kind of thing that gives "inefficient" a bad name.

Yup, and yup. Again, reasons I'm totally anti-ad. You just paid the vendor to tell you to buy the thing you bought.

[Greg R Bradley]

Yes, everything that is put out there for you to see is put there by someone paying money to put it there. To me, that means their product is NOT something you want. If it was a good product, you would want to buy it on its own merits, NOT because they advertised it.
Same with anyone calling to sell me something. That means it is NOT something I want. If it was a great product, why would they have to pay money to try to convince me?
I buy a specific product for my business a few times a year. Now that they are calling me to try to get me to buy more, I tell them if they call me again and waste my time answering the phone that I will NEVER buy that product again. I wouldn't do that to my customers as I respect their time, why would I allow a vendor to do that to me.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, everything that is put out there for you to see is put there by someone paying money to put it there. To me, that means their product is NOT something you want. If it was a good product, you would want to buy it on its own merits, NOT because they advertised it.

There would be no products to buy without advertising...how would anyone know about something new which in turn generates demand and a willingness to fund production? Potential customers don't "just know" that something exists.

I don't disagree that "in your face" promotion is pretty off-putting, but marketing and advertising is at the heart of a business gaining success, even when they have the "best thing since sliced bread" as a product.

[Chuck Wintle]

I think advertising is a good thing because, as has been mentioned, how would the consumer know a new product exists unless he/she hears about it. IMHO though if all televisions sets were shut off it could be a good thing also. Our thoughts and actions are so manipulated by the mass media that independent thought becomes an extreme act of individual will power. The mass media can be a monster sometimes.

[Edwin Santos]

Yes, everything that is put out there for you to see is put there by someone paying money to put it there. To me, that means their product is NOT something you want. If it was a good product, you would want to buy it on its own merits, NOT because they advertised it.


Are you actually saying ANY product that is advertised in any way is automatically disqualified as far as you're concerned?

There seems to be a bias among some that all advertising and marketing is a negative, sinister endeavor where the predator is trying to get something over on the victim. Could it be that some (most) advertising is simply aimed at creating awareness that a product exists for those who would otherwise not know?
If an ad informs me that a product exists, and I then look into it further and decide to buy it, then yes, the ad influenced me.
Simple example - a year or two ago Lee Valley introduced a quick release version of the bench pup and I saw it in an ad. I ended up buying one, I love it, and were it not for that ad I wouldn't have known they released it.
To not advertise is the business equivalent of expecting a product or service to sell despite keeping it a secret.
Edwin

[Greg R Bradley]

Are you actually saying ANY product that is advertised in any way is automatically disqualified as far as you're concerned?

There seems to be a bias among some that all advertising and marketing is a negative, sinister endeavor where the predator is trying to get something over on the victim. Could it be that some (most) advertising is simply aimed at creating awareness that a product exists for those who would otherwise not know?
If an ad informs me that a product exists, and I then look into it further and decide to buy it, then yes, the ad influenced me.
Simple example - a year or two ago Lee Valley introduced a quick release version of the bench pup and I saw it in an ad. I ended up buying one, I love it, and were it not for that ad I wouldn't have known they released it.
To not advertise is the business equivalent of expecting a product or service to sell despite keeping it a secret.
Edwin


There would be no products to buy without advertising...how would anyone know about something new which in turn generates demand and a willingness to fund production? Potential customers don't "just know" that something exists.

I don't disagree that "in your face" promotion is pretty off-putting, but marketing and advertising is at the heart of a business gaining success, even when they have the "best thing since sliced bread" as a product.
Yes, I should have been more specific with my complaint being about what you call "in your face" promotion.

Example: As I type this a banner ad from Hammer offering a free catalog or newsletter appears above. That is what pays for this site and its there if I want to click on it. Can actually be useful information.

Contrast that to a website that I found looking for a specific product recently. I wanted some LED strips with drivers that attach magnetically to metal lights to add some light that wasn't going straight down. My first clue that they were "in your face" should have been when a box popped up that offered to chat with a salesperson and kept coming back when clicked off. Then it started moving around on the screen making it hard for me to get the info I wanted. I bought one sample of each likely unit. Then i received requests for a satisfaction survey. Then requests to leave reviews on google, etc. When I started doing my testing, I went back to their website to look at more info on the product I had purchased and others. This generated emails. Then PHONE CALL using the number I had left when I placed the order.

[John C Cox]

I honestly don't think the biggest risk to us is consumer companies trying to sell us wares through overt, disclosed advertising... There is a much greater risk from "Marketing" and "PR" firms passing off paid pieces as "News" or "Information" - example in the case of much woodworking content presented as "Articles" are in reality paid and sponsored "Advertorials"....

Here's how something like this would work... Say I start John's Chisels R Us to sell my own line of chisels... But I need to find a way to get the word out - but I want to specifically target people who will buy my stuff.... So I contract a PR/Marketing firm and pay a Woodworking magazine or website to work together to write up a very favorable review of my product... Perhaps even do a shootout with a bunch of different chisels where mine comes out near the top... And then I pay them to feature my tools in a series of projects they are doing over the next year...

Notice how none of these efforts have disclosed that I am paying for these things to happen... They are all presented as "Objective Journalsim.." This blurs the line between "Marketing" and is where things become dangerous - because it is not DISCLOSED that the efforts are paid, and who is paying for the work which was created to sell a product...

Say now you found out later on that all the favorable reviews you read of John's Chisels R Us tools were created by a professional marketing firm and were simply then "Edited" by one of the prominent magazine editors under his own name... Say you found out the same thing for the "Shootout".... That it was a paid promotion contrived to show that John's Chisels R Us are real solid performers when they are actually re-branded rejects from Harbor freight... And so they created a bunch of tasks and a ranking system which would make an inferior tool look like it performed well.. So perhaps they highlighted a bunch of "Real Life Chisel Use" tasks "For the rest of us" like cutting sandpaper, prying paint cans, pulling nails, and chipping glue off cement... Perhaps they tested them all using "Real world sharpening" on a portable belt sander and older Silica stones which won't sharpen the new alloy steels... Perhaps they rolled them around in the back of a pickup truck for a week then sharpened them on a cement driveway.... Then add a few contrived opinion ranking categories and off you go.... Suddenly - these "chisels" which aren't even good for scraping gum off your shoes come out as solid performers.... And you are the one who is a problem when you complain that they just don't hold up right in your hands....

and I also want to put a little bug in your ear... Does that sound like any of the web content or magazone reviews you have been through... I know I was sucked in by the allure of some tools like this about 10 years ago.. And was then disappointed when they didn't perform well in my hands.. Come to find out in the last few years that *Everybody* had basically the same results as me... But since the Magazines all said they were awesome and featured them prominently in builds - it must have been a problem with me.... Right?

[Bill Dufour]

I do notice on some of the shows they duct tape over the brand name of the power tools if they are not a sponsor. I can recognize the Makita blue tools that Norm uses even if they are not a sponsor.
Bill D.

[Andrew Joiner]

Yes, I should have been more specific with my complaint being about what you call "in your face" promotion.

Example: As I type this a banner ad from Hammer offering a free catalog or newsletter appears above. That is what pays for this site and its there if I want to click on it. Can actually be useful information.

Contrast that to a website that I found looking for a specific product recently. I wanted some LED strips with drivers that attach magnetically to metal lights to add some light that wasn't going straight down. My first clue that they were "in your face" should have been when a box popped up that offered to chat with a salesperson and kept coming back when clicked off. Then it started moving around on the screen making it hard for me to get the info I wanted. I bought one sample of each likely unit. Then i received requests for a satisfaction survey. Then requests to leave reviews on google, etc. When I started doing my testing, I went back to their website to look at more info on the product I had purchased and others. This generated emails. Then PHONE CALL using the number I had left when I placed the order.

Thanks Greg. I've read your posts on LEDs for awhile and I like how you think. Those tactics are like the company has it "programmed in" to interrupt the way you analyze and purchase. What you describe here would be very annoying to me as well.

[Andrew Joiner]

A few years ago walking into a business was the most common way to buy. Commonly a salesperson would greet you. They'd say" what are you shopping for and how much do you want to spend". I'd smile and state the item and say "I'd like the best item for me at the lowest cost". The salesperson's smile would always turn to a frown:cool:

It seems like sales technology today is trying to analyze me with tactics like that salesperson would try.

I've always been resistant to sales tactics and advertising. This really helped me in my business when it came to advertising and sales.

[Brian Henderson]

I can live with that, what bothers me is getting bombarded by ads for something I just bought, usually from whoever I just bought it from.

That drives me crazy. Amazon spends a lot of time telling me about things I already bought from them, always things that I am not likely to buy again. What's the point?

[Carlos Alvarez]

Could it be that some (most) advertising is simply aimed at creating awareness that a product exists for those who would otherwise not know?


It's very rare to see ads for something that isn't already common knowledge. So yeah, it would be useful if that's what most ads were, but instead most are telling me that Coke kills kittens and I should drink Pepsi otherwise I'm a kitten killer also. It's 99% useless garbage.

And while I don't completely disqualify a product if I see an ad for it, I think less of it and reduce my mental "buy score" for it.

I see almost no advertising at all because I have gone out of my way to block it all, and don't watch any kind of live TV or any TV with ads. Yet I'm also the one with a whole bunch of tools and things my friends say, "I didn't know that exists!" I don't need ads to tell me what exists. I will go find it. If I spot a problem or challenge, I just assume someone has a product to solve it, and search.

[Stephen Tashiro]

I don't recall a time when I wasn't surrounded by advertising. It seems to me the old TV ads were more memorable - "To look sharp and to feel sharp too...", "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should", "We're having Beef-a-roni! It tastes like macaroni!" - or is that just nostalgia?

I should join the chorus and declare I'm not influenced by advertising. But what is the situation? - Companies are wasting money on advertising because it doesn't influence people? Advertising influences the general population but woodworkers are immune? ( I suspect I am influenced by advertising, but can't think of any example I care to admit. At least I never started smoking cigarettes.)

[Keith Outten]

Please note that because of ad blocking software SawMill Creek will convert to a subscription based Forum when we convert from vBulletin to Xenforo in a couple of months. Since advertising is the topic of this thread I thought it would be prudent to share this information so as many people as possible are informed concerning the upcoming changes.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I should join the chorus and declare I'm not influenced by advertising.

I don't recall seeing anyone claim that. It's one of the reasons I make sure to block and avoid advertising. Though for me, most ads that I do end up seeing influence me to hate the company for forcing it on me and wasting money on it.

[Kev Williams]

I just search all 5 pages of this thread. One word that's missing:

BILLBOARD

You can't drive a mile anywhere in this country without passing 20 billboards, half of them these days are just big screen TV's. (<just guessing at stats here ;) )

You can't escape advertising, that's about all I have to say about it :)

[Jim Becker]

The electronic billboards are a really interesting thing...the billboard companies can now sell the same space to multiple advertisers at the same time and the very act of the display changing makes people look. These things only need a few seconds of attention to be effective in most cases to folks susceptible to advertising. Honestly, I prefer them to old, static and degrading traditional fixed billboards and there are fewer of the physical presences along the roads at this point, at least toward my eyes.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Honestly, I prefer them to old, static and degrading traditional fixed billboards and there are fewer of the physical presences along the roads at this point, at least toward my eyes.

I'm waiting for one where the ad for an accident attorney shows a video of an accident happening.

[Lee DeRaud]

The electronic billboards are a really interesting thing...the billboard companies can now sell the same space to multiple advertisers at the same time and the very act of the display changing makes people look.Right, like the average driver really needs more distractions.

[Lee DeRaud]

I'm waiting for one where the ad for an accident attorney shows a video of an accident happening.Followed immediately by a "Better Call Saul" promo.

[Carlos Alvarez]

About five or six years ago I was invited to do a research study where they put you in a driving simulator and stick an eye tracker on your head. You drive for ten minutes. I was lead to believe it was about road markings, quality, traffic controls, and stuff like that. At the end they told me it was on billboards, and I hadn't looked at a single one. No idea how many people do, but I have to wonder. Online we're figuring out that banner ads, the equivalent of billboards, are being ignored more and more, which is good. Maybe billboards are just a scam, who knows. I can't imagine why someone would look at one and think to contact the company later.

[Mark Blatter]

The electronic billboards are a really interesting thing...the billboard companies can now sell the same space to multiple advertisers at the same time and the very act of the display changing makes people look. These things only need a few seconds of attention to be effective in most cases to folks susceptible to advertising. Honestly, I prefer them to old, static and degrading traditional fixed billboards and there are fewer of the physical presences along the roads at this point, at least toward my eyes.

I remember when advertisers had to be smart and funny to get your attention. Like the old Burma Shave billboards.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTfKpe3mGTeGajMDLTJD5u92oaVqtAL lk1HeNZps3Ox8E64LhG-A

I looked into doing a billboad a few years ago and the static ones were about 30% cheaper than the electronic ones because just as you say Jim, the changing action results in more eyeballs and attention.

The advertising I hate the most are robo calls from 'Amber' telling me not to hang up as she has important information for me. Yeah, right.

[Julie Moriarty]

If the world was like me, there would be no advertising. I turn off sound on the TV during commercials. I throw away soliciting mail before even opening the envelope. The moment a YouTube ad allows turning off the ad, I do. If they make you watch the whole thing I either turn off the sound or move on. And don't get me started on campaign advertising. I avoid it like the plague.

[Jim Becker]

If the world was like me, there would be no advertising.
While I can appreciate that many find advertising annoying...without it, we'd all be living in the "stone age" because nobody would know about nice inventions, such as Euro jointer/planers and wireless phones. :) :D

[Julie Moriarty]

While I can appreciate that many find advertising annoying...without it, we'd all be living in the "stone age" because nobody would know about nice inventions, such as Euro jointer/planers and wireless phones. :) :D

Yeah, and I'd have a really nice bank account! ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

Yeah, and I'd have a really nice bank account! ;)

Oh!!! I love this.....yea....this right here. :D :D :D

[Carlos Alvarez]

Mobile phones have been making and saving me money, even back to the days when they were 900MHz trunking radios.

[Steve Peterson]

I just search all 5 pages of this thread. One word that's missing:

BILLBOARD

You can't drive a mile anywhere in this country without passing 20 billboards, half of them these days are just big screen TV's. (<just guessing at stats here ;) )

You can't escape advertising, that's about all I have to say about it :)

I can't stand those things and deliberately divert my line of sight away from them. Many of them are so bright that you will be temporarily blinded if you look at them at night.

Some of the direct mail political advertisements are only effective at showing me who I should NOT vote for. Sending multiple oversized hard cardboard flyers per day is not going to convince me that they are the "candidate to reduce waste in our government".

Steve

[Carlos Alvarez]

Showing up at my door, ignoring the very obvious "no soliciting/no politics/no religion sign, and ringing the bell to get the dogs to go crazy was also not a great way for some local candidate to make an impression. Well, an impression was made, but the opposite of the intended one.

[Edwin Santos]

If the world was like me, there would be no advertising. I turn off sound on the TV during commercials. I throw away soliciting mail before even opening the envelope. The moment a YouTube ad allows turning off the ad, I do. If they make you watch the whole thing I either turn off the sound or move on. And don't get me started on campaign advertising. I avoid it like the plague.

A lot of people (many in this thread) hold this same opinion. In reality, I believe billion dollar corporations are not stupid, nor shy about hiring the brightest marketing minds around to apply sophisticated techniques to their marketing and advertising objectives.
These people are ingenious at stealth forms of marketing that are placing stimuli all around us in ways we don't notice, and are designed to influence us subconsciously. There are very few ways to be as "free" of advertising as you might think you are. For example, short of living in the wilderness and being cut off from basically every modern form of information, you are being exposed to one form of advertising or another throughout your day, probably hundreds, maybe thousands of times. Yes, it is easy discard the more primitive media like discarding envelopes and fast forwarding through commercials. What about the subtle product placement in the movies and shows you watch. Even the use of music in association with a product in a movie is a form of marketing designed to elicit an emotional response. You're exposed to a lot more than just the road and the other cars in your daily commute. One of the most clever types is product evangelism, a lot of which is present right here on SMC in one form or another ranging from innocent to totally planted.

Even the lighting patterns in stores, malls, Home Depot, have been designed and thought through in a way the studies have revealed influence our walking paths and attention direction with surprising effectiveness. Use of color is a big one too. Packaging has a surprising impact also. These people are geniuses.
And to Jim's point, not all advertising is nefarious. It's an important part of our economic engine and a mode of information (albeit usually biased). It's just important for the consumer to be aware and do his/her best to make objective, rational and intelligent spending decisions, to which it sounds like you are doing a great job, perhaps just not as free of influence as you might think.
Edwin

[Carlos Alvarez]

I haven't seen anyone claim to be free of influence, hence the point of doing what you can to avoid exposure. And no, marketing is not all nefarious, but it's never quite the truth either, and almost never useful to the target. It's a scourge that exists, just like spam and scams, because some number of people fall for it. Nobody is arguing that marketing overall doesn't net some dollars for the perpetrators.

One thing I'd love to find out is just how much an eyeball is worth in TV viewing. Some places sell shows for $2 or even $3 if you get them ad-free without a network subscription. Is an average viewer honestly worth that much? That seems crazy.

[John Goodin]

I worked in a grocery store for years. The store regularly ran the store-labeled milk on sale for about half the price of Borden. Occasionally, I would tell customers buying the expensive milk about the sale and was quite surprised when they asked if the cheaper milk was from different cows.

[Carlos Alvarez]

they asked if the cheaper milk was from different cows.

Well, that's technically true, isn't it? And I grew up next to a dairy farm; their stuff tasted completely different from whatever the big brand was at the time. Not just due to freshness, because a week-old bottle still tasted different. I won't jump into "better" or "worse" but clearly different.

The only milk I could stand was the raw milk that lasted a couple days, and is now illegal.

BTW parents, don't force your kids to drink cow milk. I was allergic, and everyone thought I was just being a whiny brat.

[Marc Jeske]

Apparently, overall... advertising works.

Maybe not so much for independently thinking folks, but the majority, I don't think are thinkers.

What else would explain the HUGE predominance of "Bud Light" ??

The taste ???

PLEEEEEZ.

And, the deeply ingrained in culture "Marlboro" smokes.

Even though they don't have the advertising years ago, it was soo wide and deep, people still are indirectly affected by it.

Crazy.

$65 + / carton or more.

Unfortunately, I do smoke... But .. I buy the $1.30 / pack "filtered little cigars"

The only diff from cigarettes is brown paper, not white.

$13/ carton... not $60 +.

Taxing $ diff of technically not being "Cigarettes" ONLY due to brown paper, not white.

AFAIK anyway.

Point is.. I have given these a few times to acquaintances that were not aware of them...

Nope, they all stuck w Marlboro, even though a few of them are very very low income elderly.

Crazy.

Interestingly, I substantially prefer WalMart Great value Sour cream, over the major advertised Daisy, and at approx 60% the price of Daisy.

Marc

[Brian Henderson]

Well, that's technically true, isn't it? And I grew up next to a dairy farm; their stuff tasted completely different from whatever the big brand was at the time. Not just due to freshness, because a week-old bottle still tasted different. I won't jump into "better" or "worse" but clearly different.

The only milk I could stand was the raw milk that lasted a couple days, and is now illegal.

BTW parents, don't force your kids to drink cow milk. I was allergic, and everyone thought I was just being a whiny brat.

My wife's father owned a dairy and she grew up drinking only fresh milk brought home every day. She turned out just fine.

[Roger Feeley]

The corollary to this thread is, "What is an honest marketer to do?".

-- I accept only calls from people I know. I pay for and use NoMoRobo
-- Junk mail never makes it into the house.
-- I use spam filters (not perfect) and have a hair trigger for the stuff that slips through.
-- I use an ad blocker. It gets in my way sometimes but it's worth it to kill pop-ups
-- We dvr all tv shows and fast forward through commercials

The only marketing that I really see are movie trailers (I like them), product placement in scripted tv shows, adds in woodworking magazines and miscellaneous signs and billboards. Most of that stuff would have only a subliminal effect on me (I hope).

So my question is what is an honest marketer to do to get my attention for a product that I may actually want? The unscrupulous ones appear to have poisoned every well. I don't understand why the real businesses with real reputations to protect don't band together and create an ethical marketing system. Maybe something where I could reveal that I'm interested in buying something and set a time limit on receiving advertising for that item until I turn it off.

[Brian Henderson]

I would never do that. If I'm looking for something, I will go out and look for it. I don't want advertising coming to me, I'll go looking for it.

[Kev Williams]

What about things you might want you didn't even know you could buy or even existed? :D


https://youtu.be/ABczekjdgLY

[Roger Nair]

As far as I am concerned, Google searches prompt a considerable number of pop up ads that are relevant to my needs and a considerable number represent past purchases or curiosities. So that form maybe useful to a limited extent. I bought a safety razor, a new brush, blades and soap in July. I now have a supply that could last 2 to 3 years so all the pervasive shaving ads will not hook into more purchases unless of course I wake up a rampant consumerist because the variety of goods is so large and want of something better or at least different compels a different buying outlook. Italian pro barber bristle brushes are replacing the tired old badgers, serious improvement.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

One thing that frosts me is the high cost of advertising spent by some companies that really do not need to advertise. My insurance company rarely advertises, and I have checked several times, I can't find anything cheaper for the coverage. Another insurance company spends close to 20% of it's annual budget advertising. A law firm here paid $30,000 a month for phone book advertising and almost a half million a year on billboards and television ads. There were only five attorneys there. That meant each attorney had to bring in almost $200,000 a year before they made any profit to pay the rent, heat light, help and themselves. Of course they are now out of business. I find some advertising very entertaining, from the standpoint, of how does it draw the public in? does it do so effectively? Does it convince people to buy the product? Does it cause people to talk, or mimic the ad? "Where's the beef" There are very few good ads in that respect.

[Carlos Alvarez]

One thing that frosts me is the high cost of advertising spent by some companies that really do not need to advertise. My insurance company rarely advertises, and I have checked several times, I can't find anything cheaper for the coverage. Another insurance company spends close to 20% of it's annual budget advertising. A law firm here paid $30,000 a month for phone book advertising and almost a half million a year on billboards and television ads. There were only five attorneys there. That meant each attorney had to bring in almost $200,000 a year before they made any profit to pay the rent, heat light, help and themselves. Of course they are now out of business. I find some advertising very entertaining, from the standpoint, of how does it draw the public in? does it do so effectively? Does it convince people to buy the product? Does it cause people to talk, or mimic the ad? "Where's the beef" There are very few good ads in that respect.

And that's why ads anger me, and I do my best to choose companies that don't advertise much. That said, I'm guessing progressive spends a ton on ads, but they came up cheapest for my motorcycle and motorhome, by far. American Family is our primary for everything else though. I've never seen an ad for American Family but everyone knows them so I assume they have a lot of ads too. We used to have an unheard of company for some insurance, but they boned us hard on a claim so they had to go.

[Brian Henderson]

And that's why ads anger me, and I do my best to choose companies that don't advertise much. That said, I'm guessing progressive spends a ton on ads, but they came up cheapest for my motorcycle and motorhome, by far. American Family is our primary for everything else though. I've never seen an ad for American Family but everyone knows them so I assume they have a lot of ads too. We used to have an unheard of company for some insurance, but they boned us hard on a claim so they had to go.

They also don't pay out. A couple of years ago, my mother got hit in her brand new car by someone with Progressive and even though they were clearly in the wrong, Progressive refused to pay out and she wound up suing the driver for compensation. If they don't do what they're supposed to do, of course they don't have to charge much. I'd rather be with a company that I know is going to do their job even if I pay a little more.

[Carlos Alvarez]

They also don't pay out. A couple of years ago, my mother got hit in her brand new car by someone with Progressive and even though they were clearly in the wrong, Progressive refused to pay out and she wound up suing the driver for compensation. If they don't do what they're supposed to do, of course they don't have to charge much. I'd rather be with a company that I know is going to do their job even if I pay a little more.

I was rear-ended by someone with Progressive. They sent a van to meet me right on the side of the road because she called them. They offered to arrange a tow and/or a loaner car on the spot (I didn't actually need it). They did some of the paperwork right there. The only thing I had to do was get a statement from a store/repair center about a broken tablet that flew off the dash, and an invoice/estimate for repair/replacement. They had a check to me in a week. Oh, and they asked if $500 extra for "inconvenience and time lost" was sufficient, which it certainly was.

[Ron Citerone]

The question for me is not whether it convinces people to buy a particular product, but if the constant bombardment of ads leads to a "gotta have" "things make me happy" mentality. I fish, I appreciate a nice rod or reel, but after some point, the increase in performance cannot justify the crazy increase in price. Also, having the greatest block plane only matters if you have put in the time it takes to learn to sharpen............................the greatest set of clubs in the hands of an occasional golfer may not make that much difference.

Does constant exposure to advertising make people want more and more?

Ron

[Roger Nair]

The question for me is not whether it convinces people to buy a particular product, but if the constant bombardment of ads leads to a "gotta have" "things make me happy" mentality. I fish, I appreciate a nice rod or reel, but after some point, the increase in performance cannot justify the crazy increase in price. Also, having the greatest block plane only matters if you have put in the time it takes to learn to sharpen............................the greatest set of clubs in the hands of an occasional golfer may not make that much difference.

Does constant exposure to advertising make people want more and more?

Ron

Ron in answer to your question I would refer you to my post #93. I believe focused adverts, targeting specific expressed interest can absolutely increase interest in new, different or up-dated products. Google has found methods of tweaking interest in niche markets ignored by mass marketers. It can present a useful service. Mass market promotions occupy the entire channel one is turned to for a brief time per ad ad nauseum ad infinitum.

[Doug Garson]

The ads that I object to are the celebrity athlete or actor promotions. When someone making millions of dollars a year is paid to promote a product I refuse to buy that product unless the athlete contributes 100% of what they are paid to a worthy cause. I would rather by a pair of shorts where $2 of every sale goes to support homeless shelters than a multi millionaire spokesperson.

On the other hand, for those who seem to object to all commercials, how do you propose a company should promote their products if not thru advertisements? I agree some ads are annoying and some are deceptive but you can selectively chose not to buy those products and even skip the ads on Youtube videos or recorded TV. I often skip the ads on Youtube but occasionally I learn something from them about a new product.

[Kev Williams]

Interesting tidbit I just found:

top ten TV advertisers this week by $$ spent:

Geico, 26.9 mil
Progressive, 21.6 mil
Verizon, 21.3 mil
Universal Pictures, 18.7 mil
Toyota, 15.7 mil
McDonalds, 14.6 mil
Samung mobile, 14.3 mil
CapitalOne, 13.5 mil
State Farm, 13.1 mil

- I woulda thunk more car companies would be on this list.
Instead, the list is dominated by car INSURERS...

[Ron Citerone]

My question is not whether advertising will make you buy a particular product, but if the constant exposure to advertising makes us get a bad case of the "wants." As much as I appreciate a high end fishing rod, when is enough enough? Is an $800 rod really gonna make me a better fisherman if you don't spend a lot of time on the water? Is a super high dollar set of golf clubs gonna improve the game of a casual golfer compared to just a decent set? Will a $375 block plane make you a better woodworker if you haven't spent the time to learn sharpening skills?

[Kev Williams]

What about things you might want you didn't even know you could buy or even existed? :D


So one of my laser engravers went south on me, 16 days ago, getting the CPU back first of next week finally-

meanwhile I didn't realize how much I NEED and USE the thing, until it was gone! I have work backing up that my other lasers can't keep up with..

SO, I'm looking at getting another laser, as it seems not only do I need another backup but it may help shorten my work day a bit!

--This leads me to looking at ADVERTISING, and videos of machines. Lo and behold, one of the 5 second pre-video ads is for this simple thing:
394167
--it's a vacuum dust-sucker attachment, which just a re-designed crevice tool using a bunch of small diameter tubes so the dirt gets sucked up but not everything else nearby... In my back room work room where the tool grinders and belt sander resides, the tables they're sitting on are literally covered in sanding dust, and the reason I don't just vacuum it up, is because the table is also covered with small nuts, washers, screws an other assorted items I don't want to retrieve from the wet-dry vac, or spend 1/2 hour picking up just so they don't get sucked up--

--this nozzle is perfect! I can vacuum all the sanding dust off the table, and THEN I can sweep all the small stuff into a container without a pound of dirt too, to cleanly sort out later!

Something I've needed, didn't know existed, and I ordered one. :)

[Lee DeRaud]

Interesting tidbit I just found:

top ten TV advertisers this week by $$ spent:

Geico, 26.9 mil
Progressive, 21.6 mil
Verizon, 21.3 mil
Universal Pictures, 18.7 mil
Toyota, 15.7 mil
McDonalds, 14.6 mil
Samung mobile, 14.3 mil
CapitalOne, 13.5 mil
State Farm, 13.1 mil

- I woulda thunk more car companies would be on this list.
Instead, the list is dominated by car INSURERS...I'm a bit surprised by the total lack of pharmaceutical companies on that list.

[Bill Dufour]

I like the lawyer ads about a medicine or procedure. They you if you are dead to contact the lawyer to get in on a class action lawsuit.
Bill D.

[Carlos Alvarez]

We were just invited to be a TV viewing study family, and get paid for it. It will be interesting to see how long they let that go on when they see that we never view one single ad at all, since I'm sure that's what they want to track. They say the average family stays with them for two years, I bet in three months they ask for the equipment back and cancel us.

[Jim Becker]

We were just invited to be a TV viewing study family, and get paid for it. It will be interesting to see how long they let that go on when they see that we never view one single ad at all, since I'm sure that's what they want to track. They say the average family stays with them for two years, I bet in three months they ask for the equipment back and cancel us.

We have a similar invite, but unless everyone in the household participates, it's a no go. (The invite we have is for both TV and radio as it turns out) Wearing a pendant is offensive to at least one family member for sure! The girls don't listen to commercial radio...they have Spotify subscriptions and Professor Dr. SWMBO and I only listen to non-commercial radio. :) Other than the morning news, there's almost zero TV watching other than Colbert off Apple TV via a CBS subscription with limited commercials. I'm afraid we'd be very boring for their study!

[Carlos Alvarez]

We have a similar invite, but unless everyone in the household participates, it's a no go. (The invite we have is for both TV and radio as it turns out) Wearing a pendant is offensive to at least one family member for sure! The girls don't listen to commercial radio...they have Spotify subscriptions and Professor Dr. SWMBO and I only listen to non-commercial radio. :) Other than the morning news, there's almost zero TV watching other than Colbert off Apple TV via a CBS subscription with limited commercials. I'm afraid we'd be very boring for their study!

That's a different system. This one is passive and requires no active participation. There will be a small computer and an eyeball tracker installed. "Just watch TV normally." It doesn't do radio (does that still exist, and why?) or other media. For music we're now iTunes only as we've pretty much given up on Android and Alexa.

[Jim Becker]

The Neilson survey we're invited to is also passive...the pendant each person has to wear picks up some audio signal from both TV and radio to ascertain whatever they are tracking.

[Carlos Alvarez]

This is another company, not Neilson. What I mean by passive is that people never do anything at all. The system is totally automated and auto-detects who is who and where they are looking. If you visit my house you will be identified as a stranger and not tracked, since you didn't agree to it.

[Jim Becker]

I can only imagine the eye rolls that system would bring here...with rare exceptions, such as a PSU football game or Master Chef, all the TV watching here is in private bedrooms. Any idea of "tracking" anything there would be shot down, given that darling daughters are adults and, um...

[Carlos Alvarez]

Yeah, they specifically ask about locations and will only put these in "public" spaces. I mean, we know it's not sending back live human images, but that's still their policy.

[Lee DeRaud]

I mean, we know it's not sending back live human images...Ok, I'll bite: how do you know that?
("Eyeball tracking" implies "camera", unless they're making you wear some sort of special glasses.)

[Carlos Alvarez]

Ok, let me state it this way: Their technical documents, service agreement, and privacy policy all show that they are not doing that. If they are doing so secretly, there's no way to know. Any electronic device could be doing things without your knowledge, we just believe they are doing what is actually in the technical specifications. I don't actually care either way, but read through all the tech specs and every word in the agreement.

[Lee DeRaud]

Ok, let me state it this way: Their technical documents, service agreement, and privacy policy all show that they are not doing that. If they are doing so secretly, there's no way to know. Any electronic device could be doing things without your knowledge, we just believe they are doing what is actually in the technical specifications. I don't actually care either way, but read through all the tech specs and every word in the agreement.Fair enough...you just didn't strike me as the type to take "trust me" as a definitive answer. :)

[Carlos Alvarez]

LOL, true, though to some extent if a company has a good reputation and puts together a reasonable contract and ToS, I do trust them. In this case what they do is get facial recognition of each person, with one photo sent (you review, approve) then the system just sends them "what is this person looking at."