18 ft long table....

[Mike Hoyt]

Morning, I was looking for some opinions on how this could be tackled. Ive been asked to consider building a very large table (3' x 18') and Im trying to figure out all the logistics of such an undertaking. Ive done several in the 4x9 range but 18 ft long is a completely different animal. My biggest concern is jointing for the top. The rest of it is pretty straightforward. It needs to match and existing table that is white pine so I was thinking to limit the amount of joining to be done I could use just 2 pieces or even source 1 big slab. All thoughts on how to tackle this welcome.

Thanks
Mike

[Prashun Patel]

People want what people want.

But I cannot think of any commercial or residential situation that would not be better served with two 9-foot tables. This will give you far wider, more economical choices in lumber, will be easier to make, and will be easier to manipulate by the customer.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Prashun...a modular approach to this kind of surface is "functionally" a better solution long term. But if you the client requires it to be one, big, long, happy table, you have your work cut out for you! In that case...and assuming you have the ability to work with very long and heavy material in your shop, starting with reclaimed beams might be a good choice. They will be old and most likely very dry/stable. You'll probably have to work the surfaces by hand, however, given the length and ultimate width. Charge accordingly...

[Mike Hoyt]

I considered the 2 table option but they wanted a large emblem/decal in the middle of the table also so that kinda axed the thought of 2, I may propose 3 6 footers which will better accommodate the center emblem idea but may detract from the wow factor of a larger single piece. With warmer weather upon us up here in Maine I would have the ability to manipulate the planer to make it work as far as space goes. I just hate to agree to the project and not be able to pull it off.

[Jamie Buxton]

Don't run the boards in the top the long way. Run them across the table. That way you have to joint edges that are four feet or less. Of course, you have to solve a big hygroscopic shinkage problem, but that can be done -- sliding ways underneath, or big wooden "figure-eight" fasteners.

Does your client think the table will have just four legs at the corners? If so, the long stretchers are going to have to be 2x6 at least, and 2x8 would be better. So diners may have trouble getting their legs under the stretchers. If they are willing to allow legs in the middle of the 18' span, the stretchers get more normal. Of course, if they will allow legs in the middle of the span, there's precious little difference between this and Prashun's suggestion of two nine-foot tables. And of course, the 9-footers are pretty straightforward.

[Jamie Buxton]

I considered the 2 table option but they wanted a large emblem/decal in the middle of the table also so that kinda axed the thought of 2, I may propose 3 6 footers which will better accommodate the center emblem idea but may detract from the wow factor of a larger single piece. With warmer weather upon us up here in Maine I would have the ability to manipulate the planer to make it work as far as space goes. I just hate to agree to the project and not be able to pull it off.

How 'bout two tables, like Prashun says, and an emblem on each one? The clients get flexibility in use, and you get a project which is buildable.

[Pat Barry]

Is there room to move in a 18 ft long top? I think you need to plan that the table will be built in your shop to a finished state, then disassembled, moved, and reassembled. I can see this being 3 sections with the emblem in the center. Perhaps you can share the support structure between them to mimimize legs, etc. I think that a laminated structure, think plywood plus veneer would be the way to go for the top. No reason to be real lumber.

[Marshall Harrison]

There are a few Youtube videos on building really long tables like that. You may be able to get some ideas from them. If you can't find the videos then PM me and I'll find the links and send them to you.

Also someone else asked about doing this a month or two ago so a search of SWC may also give you some help.

[Mark Bolton]

We did a 14' table a while back that was no real issue. I wouldnt have a problem going 18 but sourcing the material would be a challenge for me in Pine. We were a bit lucky in that this was a trestle style table so it was easy to have a third support. This table went into a large great room in a home we built (room was a single wide open space, 35'w x 54' long) and in all honesty it could easily have been bigger and not been a problem in the space.

Our construction was conventional breadboard end top and a large beefy trestle base. It would seem the design style of the table would be the first consideration and then the construction details would follow.

Sounds like a fun project.

[Marshall Harrison]

There are a few Youtube videos on building really long tables like that. You may be able to get some ideas from them. If you can't find the videos then PM me and I'll find the links and send them to you.

Also someone else asked about doing this a month or two ago so a search of SWC may also give you some help.

Weird. I'm sure I remember replying to a thread like this before but I've searched all the posts from both of my accounts and I can't find it. Its the opposite of deja vu. Seems like i was remembering something from the future but I don't suppose that that is possible. Strange.

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
Are we talking about a table used for dining? Or maybe a conference type table? What type of base - trestle, pedestal, corner legs? Echoing the comment above, what are the logistical limitations for transportation and field conditions in terms of moving something that large into the final installation space?

I would be thinking about a job like this not with the mentality of a furniture craftsman but rather with the mentality of the countertop guys. Which is to say, build the top in three 6ft sections with the grain running longitudinal and join them in the field with (not glued) alignment dowels and countertop bolts. As long as your grain is longitudinal, wood movement will not be fighting the countertop bolts.

The base could basically be two separate bases installed such that the span in the middle approximates a third base. In fact, you could join the two bases with two faux aprons in the field with bed bolts, same with lower stretchers if you're using them. Depending on how you size the overhang on the ends, you could design this so the seams in the top land on the base rails which would be my preference.

When you're done, you have a single 18ft table with four pairs of legs and three equal spaces between them. Oh, and of course you would install the emblem in the center top. With all bolts tightened up very snugly, the whole assembly should be very rigid.
Hope these ideas are helpful to you.
Edwin

[Mel Fulks]

We don't have much information. How will it be used? When Laffayette came back to US in 1824 one of the dinners in his honor had a table 30 feet long. Had a working model of a canal with running water. But I have no doubt that the table was a simple take apart and store design. Or a use the wood for something else design.

[Frank Drackman]

I made a 14 foot table with double pedestals and a frame that connected them and was the base for the table. It allowed for no legs to interfere with seating along with no stretchers near the edge of the table for legs to hit.

[Bill Dufour]

I would be thinking a welded iron frame with the wood sitting on top or even dadoes so the metal is buried inside the wood. Like a torsion box. The legs can be all wood or wood sandwiched around metal legs.
plan the design carefully so it can be moved into the room. Are there corners to go around in the building?
Bill D.

[Bradley Gray]

I made 2 16' tables for a restaurant about 20 years ago. Both had 4 legs with 2 x 8" stretchers and about 2' of overhang on each end.

One was made of 16' boards edge glued.the other was made of 10' and 6' pieces with the end joints staggered.

The trickiest part was delivery. I made a 12' ramp for the back of a pickup with an 8' bed so one of the overhangs went over the cab.

[Patrick Kane]

18' anything in my shop would be comical. It is 900ish sqft, but still, i find out how crowded everything is when i work with 10-11' lengths every so often. General question, but how do you get a tight fitting but joint in those lengths? Even if he used dominoes or finger jointed the boards, how do you get clamping pressure on something 18' long?

[James Pallas]

Just make sure you can get it in place. Built 16 footer for a client who latter moved to a third floor office in a new building.
the move involved riggers cranes and the removal of third story glass. Glad I just had to reassemble the base and not pay the moving bill.
Jim

[Mark Bolton]

18' anything in my shop would be comical. It is 900ish sqft, but still, i find out how crowded everything is when i work with 10-11' lengths every so often. General question, but how do you get a tight fitting but joint in those lengths? Even if he used dominoes or finger jointed the boards, how do you get clamping pressure on something 18' long?

When you say "butt joint" I assume your meaning how to you get two long boards jointed for a good tight glue line? The butt joint threw me off.

If your talking long grain, we have a super long fence that hangs from the ceiling and is lowered down onto the saw that we use for straightening very long pieces. With the crown out, a few light passes per side with the feeder and just a very light skew on the feeder as not to push the crown out of the board, and they are pretty much dead straight up to about 16'. Depending on how thin they are we sometimes have to alternate edges to get them ready for glue up. Have never had a need to go longer but it would work for a couple extra feet. Working with long material is a royal PITA regardless of the size of your shop but if thats what they are paying for thats what you do.

As far as clamping pressure we just use 3/4" pipe clamps or I bars and have never had a problem. I generally always use dowels on super long stuff to get near perfect alignment of the faces if they wont be able to be cleaned up in a machine afterwards. Having the faces as close to perfect as possible and speeding up the glue up makes the dowels a no brainer and life is a lot easier when you have to cleanup with hand sanders. Now with the CNC we have the ability to flatten up to 200 inches long flipping and doing one end at a time though we have only done it a couple times.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike

That's a big project. Literally.
A few years back I was asked to build a large surface like that. I didn't have to build the base, just the top. I started with a 3'x17'x2" thick piece of padauk, and it was heavy!!. We did the initial sizing right on the car a carrier.
The emblem in the middle has me a little concerned, anything that does not allow that table to expand and contract, is a problem.
I think constructing the top will be "simple enough". Moving it, and the base, into place is going to be fun.

Marshall

Many years ago Todd Burch, here on the board, did a very large conference table made from a slab of bubinga. Possibly that is the thread/project you were looking for?

[Mark Bolton]

I started with a 3'x17'x2" thick piece of padauk, and it was heavy!!.

My lord. Whenever I see projects like that I think of the handling alone on a beast of a slab like that. The only thing that comes to mind is "bridge crane" and,... I dont have one.

[Al Launier]

i like your idea of (3) 6' tables, that would have been my suggestion. It would really be worth suggesting that to your client, that way he gets his centered emblem and you get an easier project, plus the cost/price/logistics might be more beneficial to the both of you.

[Mark Bolton]

I know we all have suggestions and advice that we offer to people looking to have something built but there is nothing to say that the OP was even brought into the project in an advisory capacity. Of course he has to make the customer clear on what his capabilities are, and whether he can execute an 18' table that he can (and is willing to) stand behind. But wouldnt it seem kind of clear that if a customer is asking for an 18' long behemoth of a table that they want an 18' long table? Its somewhat uncommon for someone to be looking for a single piece table 18' long so if they are it would seem they actually want an 18' table as opposed to some tables gathered together that total 18'.

Now of course they may not have considered that they cant get the table into the space, or that they may later wish they could break the table into smaller sub-tables, but unless the OP is charged with the interior design, building, and placing, of the table in the space,.. who cares? Just make then table, and then cut it in half when they call you and tell you they cant get it in lol?

We all do this, myself included, but the OP wasnt really asking for alternatives to making a single 18' table and states he has made several 9 foot tables so making two of them would be gravy.

To the question about jointing the long pieces there are several options that start with a hand plane (but that would be painful for me). Before we made the large fence for the table saw I mentioned in the other reply, we had a large plywood straightedge made from staggered layers of ply that were glued and screwed together registered against another sheet of ply. Its far from perfect but it can most definitely act as a very large straight edge to register a circular saw against. You can further average the errors in the fence by attaching long ply fence to the shoe of your circular saw. You could also trade out the circular saw for a router with a long fence attached to average the errors in the ply fence and get a near perfectly jointed edge.

Kinda like the issues with the top and design being based on what you have to match,.. what you are able to do in the shop to make it work will be very much dependent on how much money there is in the job. If your customer isnt comfortable with the fact that the cost of such work goes up exponentially you may find yourself running out of money trying to make the project work.

[Mike Cutler]

My lord. Whenever I see projects like that I think of the handling alone on a beast of a slab like that. The only thing that comes to mind is "bridge crane" and,... I dont have one.

It took a few people to handle it.
I still have a section in the garage that I have to move from time to time. It's only about 6 1/2 feet long and it's a load to handle.

[Robert Cherry]

Consider making it in smaller segments. We have hundreds of conference room tables this size where I work. They are all made in two or more pieces and joined in the final location. Veneer might make the emblem work better considering wood movement but hard to say without knowing more about how big it is, what material, etc.

[Doug Garson]

Could you joint an 18 ft slab with a track saw and three six foot tracks clamped together? Alternately, could you make it in two parts that bolt together with a section routed out say 1/2" deep in each half for a one piece emblem?

[Wayne Lomman]

Mike, having done tables like this, consider using steel to provide structural strength. The steel can be hidden strategically as dictated by the design you need to match. My longest one to date was 11 metres/36 feet long, curved and on 4 legs. I borrowed the cross section design from a road bridge and used steel and ply followed by veneer as dictated by the interior designers. It is still in a prominent Australian public building and looks as good as the day it was made despite daily use.

Don't be concerned about doing it in one piece. Its sheer size will make a statement that cannot be matched by 2 or 3 smaller tables. The weight will be a significant factor. Have lifting gear set up ready. A simple 1 ton chain block may be all you need.

Plan the project step by step from now until you receive payment. At each step of your plan, ask yourself, "Have I done/prepared everything necessary to complete this step?" If not, go back and modify the plan. This avoids getting to the lifting stage and finding you have no lifting points, for example. Don't laugh, it happens.

One of the other guys suggested making a long straightedge and using it as a guide for straightening. This works well, especially with a router. Set up the 2 pieces to be matched and do them at the same time. Run a half inch cutter with the timber 3/8 apart and you clean both edges to match perfectly down to the last wobble. Good luck. Cheers

[Mark Gibney]

Wayne, any photos of your project?

[Roger Bull]

Could you joint an 18 ft slab with a track saw and three six foot tracks clamped together? Alternately, could you make it in two parts that bolt together with a section routed out say 1/2" deep in each half for a one piece emblem?

This would likely work well especially using a wood like white pine.

I would probably invest in a Betterly Straightline Connector for aligning the guide rails.

[Roger Bull]

A couple months ago I was talking with someone who has a shop on the east coast and now lives near Tucson. I was telling him about a reverse live edge walnut dining table I am currently working on and he pulled out some pics of a table he did for a winery a while back. There was no more discussion about my table... It was a 42' long solid top slab table using 21' book matched slabs. It was an amazing piece.

I'm mentioning this here because the most difficult parts of that project were the things you might not think about at first glance. A special made steel platform to move it around in a stable manner, custom steel supports, a custom spray booth for finishing, a semi-truck to transport, getting it on and off the semi, getting it in the destination, the list goes on.

[Roger Bull]

One more thought.

How about making two 9' tables with bread board ends? You could design one end on each table to be removable and allow the tables to mate together in such a way that they would interlock and be pulled together with hardware when a single 18' table is required.

[Mike King]

Sounds like a project that would benefit from a router sled to level/face joint the top. Contrary to prior advice, I'd make sure that the long grain runs the length of the table -- the other way would be a nightmare to compensate for expansion/contraction.

Mike

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Mike. First thought I had after that suggestion was MASH episode with the Korean custom made suit ....
with the pin stripes running horizontal.

[Mark Bolton]

Agree with Mike. First thought I had after that suggestion was MASH episode with the Korean custom made suit ....
with the pin stripes running horizontal.

Hehe. Not to mention controlling 18' of potential potato chip. Would be interesting to say the least.

[Sam Murdoch]

Are you making a white pine slab top? Here is a company that I have dealt with for a number of projects - http://www.berkshireproducts.com/species2.php?thickness=8/4&species=Pine,%20Eastern They are Berkshire Products in western MA. A long drive for me but not so bad from Gorham. Well worth a tour someday, even if you don't buy from them.

The link I provided is for their current 2" thick pine selection - some 39" wide, in the 8' to 13' range. I'm guessing that you are expecting NOT to get 18' boards.
BP will process the lumber to your specs - for a charge of course. In the case where you might be limited with tools or space - you could at least buy 2 slabs all ready to go. They will ship according to your preference but certainly worth a drive to see the stock in person and discuss milling needs and/or to bring your wood home yourself. They also are worth calling if you need something that you don't see on the web sight, as their inventory changes regularly.

Was mentioned in one of the earlier posts - charge accordingly. Right on that! This is a super custom style project worth more, by far, than two conventionally sized tables of otherwise the same specifications.

Good luck.

[Wayne Lomman]

Wayne, any photos of your project?

Mark, here's an image off the net. I actually made all of the tables and desks in this chamber, as well as fitting out each councillor's office etc. The furniture in this photo received a national architectural award that year. The finishes are birch, leather and aluminium. Cheers

http://www.friendshipforcegoldcoast.org.au/exchanges/san_diego_in/images/gccc_chamber.jpg

[Mark Gibney]

Impressive scale Wayne, would have given me nightmares.

[Mike Hoyt]

Hey everyone thanks for all the great ideas and advice. I wanted to take a minute to update you on the status of this project. After discussing the challenges surrounding this project the client agrees that 3 6ft tables make more sense for them and with the different decals they have in mind it would actually work out better visually. Thanks again to everyone and I will post some pics after we are done!