Those of you who sell bowls

[Alex Zeller]

Today I happened to be in a maple syrup shop that had some craft stuff in it. I noticed they had some wooden bowls for sale. Since I'm getting into turning I took a closer look. I'm not trying to bash anyone's work but I was left stumped. While they didn't list the type of wood, was too dark to be maple but too light to be cherry, if I had to guess I would say oak or birch. They were at least 1/2 thick and looked like they were made with a coring system when green. All of them were warped from drying and if they were sanded it was with something like 80 grit. They had (what I would guess) 8" bowls for $60 and 12" bowls for $130. I didn't have my phone handy but if I go back I'll take a picture. Afterwards while talking to my wife she was saying that if what they sell for then I should see if some of the other similar shops in this area would sell stuff I make. I really have little interest in selling stuff.

What kind of got me back into the idea of turning is that I've been making wooden buttons for my sister who makes scarfs. I just give them to her as I find it fun working with wood to make them. I like the idea of doing something more complex with wood from my land. So for those of you who sell your work how much is a reasonable asking price? I know that's not an easy question since a wooden bowl could be simple to a very complex work of art. What I'm talking about would be simple bowls that can be placed on a hutch for holding keys and other stuff or as a salad bowl. Would you sell a bowl that was more utility than a work of art if it was warped? I can envision a point in time when I have so many bowls from learning that I'm giving them away to friends and family. Sooner or later selling them might be an option. Since I don't have a lathe yet (it's on back-order) it's not an issue now but I'm trying not to get preconceived ideas in my head.

This picture is similar to what they had for sale.

383788

[John Keeton]

This topic has been addressed multiple times on the Creek. If you will enter this search line in Google, you should get links to many of the threads - how to price bowl site:sawmillcreek.org.

[JohnC Lucas]

purely depends on where you live. In my area a 12" bowl will be lucky to be sold at $40. I hear others in other parts of the country who could sell something like that for $100.

[richard shelby]

We all eventually come to the realization that the lathe is a form of addiction, and the bowls, pens, stoppers, etc. accumulate to the point of taking over all the available space in our lives. We give them to friends and relatives, but that outlet is soon saturated, and we are forced to sell the stuff for the sole purpose of supporting our habit. There is no easy answer to the question of "how much to charge?". Here is what I have discovered after a year of sales.
Craft shows: Make two kinds of product - "art" and "tableware". The art should be polished, shiny, and have embellishments like inlay, or carving. It may be from a burl or highly figured wood. You put more hours into it so charge for the time. Tableware should have sealed grain with oil and wax, foodsafe, the finish is matte, and the wood can be plain, but attractive. A fellow turner told me "If it won't hold soup, it's art". Take a broad sampling of art and tableware to the show. You will probably sell some of each type.
Consignment: The shop owner will tell you what she wants in her store. Take an assortment of sizes and prices. Bear in mind that she will add 20%-40% to the price. I have some pieces in the local art gallery and these are of the "art" type and priced accordingly.
Juried art shows: You will probably be out of place here among painting and sculpture, but enter your best work if you want to make a favorable impression. Check out the prices for some of the other paintings and sculpture in the exhibit. You will be amazed. Just remember for some of these artists this is their main source of income. Not so for us old retired folk with a "turning habit".

I decide on a price based on 1) how many hours did I invest? Pay yourself at least 20$/hr. As your skill set improves, and you get a reputation, you can increase the rate. 2) Was the wood rare and did it have spectacular grain to begin with? Double the price over a plain grained piece.

Last week was a revelation. At a juried art show, I sold about half of my pieces. The lowest price was $20, the highest $150. I also got a $100 award. Now the problem is that I have another juried art show in two weeks, and I'm scrambling to build up the inventory. At least now I can buy a new saw blades and another gallon of epoxy.

"Perfection is boring" - Richard Raffan (a favorite quote)

[Reed Gray]

Those prices are pretty steep as far as I am concerned. 8 inch bowls for me are in the $25 to $40 range, and 12 inch bowls can be in the $60 to $100 range, and there are a lot of variables here as well. I have been amazed at what people can sell some times which can vary from low quality for high prices and excellent quality for dime store prices... As far as warping, I sell green turned to final thickness, and the more they warp, the better they sell for me. Just my style. When I first started selling, I tried to figure out what my time costs would be when I got much more efficient from practice. I figured 8 inch bowls at being around 15 minutes apiece counting cutting blanks, turning and sanding I don't know if I ever got faster than that, but total time was close to that.

robo hippy

[Alex Zeller]

This topic has been addressed multiple times on the Creek. If you will enter this search line in Google, you should get links to many of the threads - how to price bowl site:sawmillcreek.org.

I did try a search but what came up was 5 to 10 years old. 25 years ago I bought a couple bowls as gifts for family. One was 12" and the other 10" made from maple (2" thick glued together). They are probably about a 1/4" thick with a food safe finish. I think I paid $25 for the small one and $40 for the large one. While equipment cost a lot more now I have to believe that it's more popular so more people have taken it up. Seeing those bowls for sale I was wondering if the price had gone up more than I thought it would have and if people's tastes had changed and the asymmetrical look of a distorted bowl actually appeals to buyers?

John, I would have assumed that $40 would have been a fair price for a 12" utilitarian type bowl. I could see the shop adding $20 to $40 to cover their costs. That's why I was kind of shocked at the prices.

Richard, thanks for the detailed reply. I'm not retired so the idea of spending time at a craft show on my days off has little appeal. Being on a 12 hour shift I do have lots of free time but I also work every other weekend which also adds to my desire not to spend it trying to sell bowls on my off weekends. That leaves selling at a craft store. I haven't looked around but there are a number of towns around me that do have pretty good tourist traffic. In the fall leaf peeping season hits hard for about 2 weeks. In winter it's skiing. This time of year there's a little traffic as it's now maple syrup season. I live near an odd place. On one side of the mountain we have the Stowe ski resort and everything is twice what it would cost compared to the Smuggler's Notch side. So I get that pricing will reflect what a shop thinks they can sell a bowl for as well as the shop needs to have a markup. That's the incentive for buying a table at a craft show to sell. I do like the idea of making a few bucks to turn it into a partially self sustaining hobby but I would like to avoid having to produce a number of bowls because there was a run on inventory and risk taking some of the fun out of it. Is that like a crack addict saying they just want to sample?

[Alex Zeller]

Reed, thanks for the reply. I remember as a kid watching a TV show (don't remember the name) and a guy just got hired to work on an organic food store. Another man was showing him the ropes when the new guy dropped an apple on the floor. He looked at the other guy and said he was sorry as he picked it up and started to throw it into the trash. Before he could the other man stopped him and said that the apple was now worth twice as much because organic buyers don't like perfect looking apples. It was funny but if imperfect sells then so be it. The fact that it's actually easier because you don't have to turn it a second time is just a bonus.

[Mel Fulks]

I think seeing these prices will encourage some buyers. There are many who have only seen the extremely high prices
typical of museum gift shops.

[Gary Baler]

If you have to make a living selling turnings you will discover that what you think is a profit making price will not yield you a profit in the end. The bowl that you showed in your post would be one that I would put on a blanket on the ground with some others like it and mark $100, put an 80% off sign on it and sell it for $20 ... and be glad to get rid of it. Needless to say, I wouldn't make it in the first place. It is very difficult to sell anything for under $100 and make a house payment, insurance payments, phone bill, and buy groceries. It is one thing to make a few pieces and sell to buy a tool or 2. It is totally different if you have to sell 20-30 pieces a weekend for 30 straight weeks. The production costs are not just a little here and there. They become thousands of dollars. If you are going to make a 12 inch bowl it needs to have enough quality to bring more than $100.

[Pat Scott]

Realize that a bowl you see in a gift shop might be priced high because the shop could be taking 50% of the sale. In the case of your 8" bowl at $60, maybe the artist has decided the least amount HE will take for it is $30. I used to sell in a tourist store where the store took 50% of the sale. The owner wanted bowls with turquoise inlays and other embellishments that take more time to make, yet she didn't want to price them for what I thought they were worth or for the extra amount of time they took to make. This store sold other types of woodturnings that I didn't make, and I was shocked at the poor quality of the other turnings. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we are our own worst critics. It's easy to spot too thick of walls, too thick of base, tear out, poor sanding, poor finish, etc., but customers may not notice.

I sell 8" bowls starting at $40, but I've seen others sell 8" bowls for $70 to $90. My 12" bowls start around $110 but can go up to over $200 depending on wood, features, inlays, etc. I only sell twice turned bowls, and I will not sacrifice quality for price. For me the way to maintain high quality and be more profitable has been to study production turners and learn from them.

I saw a formula recently where a turner takes the diameter x height x 2.5 and uses that as a baseline for pricing work. Highly figured wood, etc., would be priced higher, but it gives him a consistent pricing structure. So a 10" x 3" salad bowl using the formula is $75, 12" x 4" bowl is $120. The 2.5 is just a number that he uses and can be adjusted up/down for your area or price point.

[Mel Fulks]

At least ten years ago I saw museum shop bowls about 12 inches at $200!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Yes, I'd sell bowls there too if that's the going prices. The big question is if people actually buy it..... You could price bowls that high and never sell anything. Or you could sell them for less and have them actually move. Out the door.
Warped bowls sell, but personally I'd not buy a 1/2" thick bowl....... Get them thinner, and finish well, and you could get those prices. Your products will be "better". And they would move out the door. Good luck.

[John Keeton]

Alex, my point in referring you to prior threads is that the answers are always the same - price depends on size, quality, and other aesthetic factors, but by far the biggest factors are location, location, location! If your are fortunate to be in a good market area, with tourist traffic and can produce a product consistent with what folks are looking for then you can demand top prices. The circumstances where you live will never be the same as those of other posters, so the answers, while well intentioned, are not very helpful. Do some local research to determine your market dynamics and decide if they will work for you.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

A turner acquaintance told me that items bring prices that bare little semblence to reality. Items he was tempted to throw in the trash have sold quickly, and items he thought of value languished on the shelf for a year. We as turners see the product in our sense as turners. We can immediately notice the scratches we yearn for a finish that just glows. We judge items in the context of what we know and do as turners, which usually is not how the lay person sees the item. He tells me he can't give black walnut pieces away. Yet plain jane wood brings more. We appreciate a well executed swirly segmented design, yet a lay person might ask, "why didn't the turner just buy a bigger piece of wood?" Same goes for some "Art" pieces.Some lay folk appreciate the natural edge of the void in a piece, Some ask why the artist did not use a better piece of wood. At the monthly club meetings "show and tell" sessions, I see items I am almost afraid to touch, because they are of such exquisite fine turning with a wonderful finish, I am afraid simply handling it will detract from the piece. I see simple shapes turned from segmented blocks,this piece has 512 pieces, doesn't impress as much as the near glass finish the next guy achieved on a plain cherry bowl. The fact that the guy who made the segmented piece did so so well that I can't see any voids between joints, is remarkable, but almost seems like mowing the lawn with a nail clipper. Some folks act like it is a crime to paint a turning. I see stains, paint isn't much different depending on the effect wanted. Don't get me wrong, all these guys are far beyond my skill set. It gives me something to aspire to. To learn from, but I can easily understand why some pieces would not sell and others would. Bowls can be rather mundane or quite spectacular. The shapes are normally fairly uniform and frankly can be pretty boring. An odd shape helps, grain helps, color helps, even the finish. Decades ago , I turned teak bowls from cut offs from a furniture factory. They were small, and mundane but they sold. The wood was a novelty and there were not many turners selling their wares. I got $ 8-10 per bowl in 1970, for a 6 inch diameter 3 high inch bowl A few years ago, Mrs and I were in an antique shop and I saw one of my bowls on the shelf. It was marked $20. The shop keeper said it was made by a now deceased local artist. It still had my initials on the bottom. $20 was too much.
Bigger is not always better, but just the scarcity of the wood and the lack of equipment to turn such bowls make the very large bowls have some value. I had a black walnut bowl from an unknown turner. It was graceful and finely done with good proportion for it's 14 inch size and 8 inch depth. No figure, but it was lighter than expected for it's size. I got it at a flea market for $8. To the seller it was just a wooden bowl, in a pile with some monkey pod salad bowls and other junk bowls. I wish I could turn something that delicate and sturdy. The other thing is what the market will bear, An artist with a following can certainly demand higher prices. Are the pieces unique in some way? Some folks will pay an extra, just because they met the turner or witnessed the product being made. Or because it was made locally of local wood. I had been away from turning for 40 years and happened upon a guy turning little Christmas trees at a Christmas fair. I watched and it brought back memories of when I made bowls and other items to earn money for college. Except that I could see where he made minor errors, where he was inefficient in his use of time and materials. That he really did not have the right tool for what he was doing. So I got a lathe and got back into it. A few hours here and a few there, and my skills are better than they were years ago. But I am still a beginner. Much of what I make is donated to charity and sold by them to raise funds. Two days ago, I was asked about making a run of 72 special Christmas ornaments for a business. I can get pretty close to a standard by turning free hand, but should probably get/use a copy attachment. I am trying to make a few just to see if I can make this work and to figure a price.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I got into woodturning for the sole purpose to make money. And the only product I turn is large hollow forms. They require large tooling, large effort, and large amounts of time. Most woodturners have no desire to venture down this path but in my experience, this is where you can make (and charge) appreciable money in woodturning. Prices for large, perfectly finished Hollow forms are in the thousands not hundreds. 383882

[daryl moses]

I am picky about what craft fairs I sell at. When I first started we went to 4-5 a year. It didn't take long to weed out the good ones from the not so good. The "not so good" weren't craft fairs at all. Most of the vendors were re-selling items made overseas, jewelry, clothing etc. The people attending these weren't looking for handmade craft items.
The wife and I only attend three a year now, two are at the same venue, one in the Spring and one in the Fall. Most of the Vendors are truly craftsmen and women and the people attending them are for the most part looking for "handmade" and are willing to pay for them. The other one is a juried show at an Arts studio. What we sell and the prices we charge are different from one to the other. We show our best pieces, Urns, hollow forms, vases, bowls with a lot of figure etc at the juried show. At the two others we sell [what I consider] pieces that are nice but not the "artsy" type that the clientele at the Arts center will purchase.
Still, in our area we are hard pressed to sell a 10-12" bowl for $50.00. 8-10" bowls go for $20-$45. And they won't sell at all unless they are well done and are either Walnut, Flame Box Elder, or have some nice figure to them. We don't waste our time with Poplar, pine, or any of the other species that don't show well.
We don't go to make a ton of money nor is it a way to make a living, it's just a way for us to sell some of our surplus items and make enough money for tools, and recoup some of the money we spend on materials etc. Luckily we live on a farm so wood is abundant and I have never purchased the first piece of "turning" wood. In fact most of the wood I turn has fallen naturally or is diseased and needs to be cut down. We let our customers know that and they seem to appreciate the fact that "no tree was harmed" lol.

[George Overpeck]

I think the bowls you were looking at were made on a bowl coring machine rather than a lathe. Seen the machine and process, it's fascinating. It only makes one shape but it's a fairly nice one, also they all warp because it would take a foot and a lathe to re-turn them.

[Nike Nihiser]

Look at Etsy, it'll give you some idea of what's out there and what they're asking. Just search "handmade wooden bowl" on their site.

[Keith Buxton]

I have to agree with John Keeton's reply location is the big factor on what you can sell your stuff for. I live in the Midwest and am luck o get $30 to $40 for a nice 10" walnut bowl at a local gallery but while on vacation. I try and stop in places to see what they have the places that have a lot of tourism charge a lot more for the same thing.

[Randy Heinemann]

Don't know in detail what everyone else said, but . . . It always sounds like a great idea to sell your work and, of course, it provides great satisfaction when you do. From past experience with selling hand made products and with my wife's polymer clay jewelry, how much you sell and for what price seems to be, to a large degree, random. It depends on what type of venue you sell in, what area of the country you're in, what people want right then, and other very changeable and unpredictable factors.

For the most part, unless you're in the business of making one of a kind, custom products (whether bowls or something else), people generally aren't willing to pay a lot of money regardless of of how much they rave about the product.

Recently my wife and I teamed up with wood bowls and clay highlighting of the bowls, thinking it was a bit unique. I would be the first to admit I'm a novice bowl turner, but my bowls are smooth and finished well (because I'm a perfectionist whether I get to the end by turning techniques or am required to sand till it looks good). People allegedly love the bowls but we've sold most of the to our friends (and I've given some away to good friends). They all love them, but selling them to the public is another matter.

Hey, if you want to create wood art, whether bowls or something else, and try to sell it, go for it. It's a humbling experience. I prefer make and give it to friends and family. They appreciate the work more and it definitely is much less of an effort. Plus, in the end, I get more satisfaction out of making bowls and furniture for my family and friends than selling it.

Oh, and price . . . We've tried to sell small bowls with the clay highlights for anywhere from $30 - $100 (higher prices for unique woods) and haven't had great success in the midwest. As for selling them in store, retailers generally get 40% - 50% which means either you net less or raise your prices.

[John Keeton]

Everyone should keep in mind there are literally thousands of folks just in this country turning hemispherical bowls and that doesn’t count the off shore products coming in. When Glenn Lucas talks about his contracts with Williams Sonoma and others, he is dealing with thousands of bowls annually. If you want to compete in that arena you are going to have to price competitively and aggressively. I sell my work, and have sold a few standard bowls. In the right circumstances they sell for $150 - 200 in a gallery, but that is a rare thing. If one wants to sell turnings, it either needs to be production work or find a niche for more artsy work. If artsy is the choice, the quality (form, finish and aesthetics) need to be at high standards and even then, sales are spotty and I wouldn’t want to have to eat out of the proceeds. Finding a venue to sell art is challenging and uniqueness is required.

[Steve Peterson]

Alex, my point in referring you to prior threads is that the answers are always the same - price depends on size, quality, and other aesthetic factors, but by far the biggest factors are location, location, location! If your are fortunate to be in a good market area, with tourist traffic and can produce a product consistent with what folks are looking for then you can demand top prices. The circumstances where you live will never be the same as those of other posters, so the answers, while well intentioned, are not very helpful. Do some local research to determine your market dynamics and decide if they will work for you.

There is a small tourist area nearby that sells handmade wood items for what seems like a crazy price relative to the quality. Of course, I may be a bit biased because I can see the defects. Maybe most of his customers like them.

Then you have to realize that the woodworker only gets half of the marked price. They need to produce items quickly if they are going to make any money, so they are forced to cut a few corners.

[Harold Balzonia]

Selling "plain" wooden bowls is tough business. A common estimate is $4-$7 per inch of diameter for plain, utilitarian bowls with no inlays, designs, or artsy accents. Do something different, though, and you can charge a lot more. Turquoise inlays, segmented rings, etc (if done well), or showcasing voids in the wood all increase the value at least 2x.

chuck berry wasn't the greatest guitarist of all time but he had the duck walk.... Pete Townshend had the windmill.... if you want to sell for better prices, use showmanship.

i sell at 3-4 art shows per year and by commission work. I can pay for my hobby and put a little bit in my pocket. I don't know if there is anyone in the USA paying their rent by only turning bowls. The famous, full time turners have tools they sell with their name on them, go on the road doing demos, and offer turning clinics/classes. Some have books, dvds, and you tube channels. That sounds like a whole lot of work to me!

I've given away a lot more bowls than I've sold and I get just as much enjoyment out of that. As soon as this hobby turns into a job, I quit.

[Alex Zeller]

I appreciate all the input. It sounds like what I was thinking for a price for a plane bowl is about what most here feel it can fetch. I'm hoping to just give away bowls for years and not bother with trying to find a new way to get them out of the house. My neighbor who's a master woodworker says sometimes you just have to accept that they have no real value and you can't keep them all so there's always the woodstove. He's not a turner but the concept is the same.

Last fall he made about 20 chairs out of left over wood from other projects. They were all wood and had no backs. He just wanted to figure out how much of a curve seamed right for the seat as well as which way would work the best. The 4 best chairs ended up in his house while he burnt the rest. I'm not there, I'm too much of a pack rat. I'm hoping that in a few years I don't have hundreds of bowls stuffed in every spare corner of my shop.

[Reed Gray]

For good sales, it seems like the times people spend the most money are when they are on vacation and/or at Christmas time... So, galleries in vacation areas will do better than down town ones. You never know, sales is a whole different set of skills.

Of the 'professional' turners I know, those who make a living at it do it from product sales, signature tool sales, demonstrations, work shops, and 'accessories'. None do it from turning sales alone. I always considered myself to be 'semi pro' which meant that I supported my habit and could pay some bills. Much more than that and I would have had to worked too hard.

I don't do production turning any more, but will focus more on workshops and demonstrations. "If you are having half as much fun as I am, then I am having twice as much fun as you are." The late great Rockin Rome Hammel..... I have as much fun teaching and mentoring as I do turning. Now, to turn about 150 drawer pulls for the new house and shop...

robo hippy

[Ken Glass]

If One needs or wishes to make a living Turning Wood, you must have Galleries willing to give you space and a Broker who appreciates your work and has a good reputation in those Galleries. I was blessed when I started as I was on the board of the first Gallery I had a showcase in. I had a Gallery opening which was by invitation, and I was there to answer questions and to sell as well. After the one evening opening to my Gallery, which was attended by approx 250 people, I was on display for a month. I had 40 to 50 Turnings on Display. My opening night I sold 9 turnings including HF's, Bowls, and Vases for $1400. During the month I sold another 7 turnings for $1600. I was also fortunate that my Daughter was an Artist in Albuquerque and was able to get me into 5-6 Galleries in a high traffic city which is the Meca of Art in the Southwest. She became my broker and as I am retired and only turn as she needs items to sell. I believe you must sell in Galleries and not swap meets or Flea market or Fair, as you will never get what your product is worth because everyone attending those venues is looking for a bargain and not a piece of Art. My.02 worth.....

[Alex Zeller]

Someday I would love it if my skills improve to the point where I could put my work in a gallery. My intent is to improve to the point of making bowls with inlays and hollow vessels. I think most (if not all) here don't have a "that's good enough attitude", neither do I. I doubt I'll ever want to make a living at turning or teaching, I'm doing this as a fun hobby but I always push myself to improve. Right now all I do with wood from my land is burn it for heat. I'm looking forward to being able to do something more as plenty of it is too nice to just get burnt. I suspect that I can give away most of the stuff I make (I can always bring it to the plant I work at) and just having people say thanks and admire it is all the payment I need thanks to working a full time job. That being said I'm not opposed to making a display stand and selling bowls at a gift shop or two. When I retire and have more time to turn it would be nice to have an outlet for the stuff I make.