Fading off??

[Charlie Velasquez]

My son recently purchased an older home. This meant he also took on a new hobby, fix-it up.
After a few basic carpentry projects he seemed to enjoy the feeling of making things himself and started a few more complicated woodworking projects.

As I am downsizing, I started giving him some of my duplicates: routers and bits, layout tools, ... whatever. Then I said the best tool I've used in the last decade or so was my participation on SMC. Suggested he join.
A while later I asked if he had seen any threads that helped him.

He said, "No, usually if I have a question I can find the answer on youtube. I looked at the forum and for every question there are different opinions as to how it should be done. Sometimes it is hard to visualize. On youtube I get different ways, but I can see what they are doing, then I can see for myself which ways are safer or better."

I responded that yes, but more information is always better.
"Maybe, but for the time invested I think youtube is better."
OK....

Just curious, is the self-help forum slowly fading out?
When I joined it seemed like the topics were more varied and replies were more numerous. Sometimes if you didn't check daily your thread of interest was a page or two back. It doesn't seem that way anymore. It is like that in several other forums I am a member of, also.

How are the numbers? I know the membership is rising, but that just means the current members aren't removing themselves from the rolls as they become inactive. How is the traffic doing?

[Larry Frank]

I think that for a quick how to do it, YouTube is great. I have used it to install a new ice maker in my fridge, replace power locks in a minivan and similar. They are often step by step. The information on the forum is different. Too often, you have comments by people who do not know about the specific subject. Other times, the explanations are not clear. It is not easy to write a clear, concise instruction. Other times, people go into too much detail.

[Marshall Harrison]

I don't know the answers to your questions. But earlier this week I was reading my old posts from 2004 and it struck me how much more congenial and caring things seemed back then. People didn't seem to be quite as opinionated.

[Dave Zellers]

I don't know the answers to your questions. But earlier this week I was reading my old posts from 2004 and it struck me how much more congenial and caring things seemed back then. People didn't seem to be quite as opinionated.
Very interesting. We joined at the same time and recently I have been thinking the same thing.

I think the hyper politic world that has developed since then is a factor and also I think YouTube is a factor in draining eyeballs away from forums like this.


At the same time, I'm noticing TONS of early YouTubers fading away.

It's not a new thing. Publish or perish was the old mantra among college professors throughout the twentieth century. The early successful YouTubers spent too much of their money on expensive equipment to up their game and then discovered just how hard it is to put out fresh content every week by themselves. It takes a team, but there goes the profit. No free lunch, yada, yada.

I believe people to people exchanges and sharing of ideas like SMC will be making a return and ironically, actually limiting participation, might be the key to success.

Thus Keith's conundrum re fees going forward.

Wait a minute. We did Not join at the same time. Not sure where I got that from. :confused:

[Chase Mueller]

I think it all depends on the subject and what not. Sometimes people see an answer or whatever and feel there's nothing left to add.
Participation wise though, just last week I made a thread, by morning there was a good few pages, it was also locked, but that's not really the point :D

[Jim Becker]

There are more resources available today than a decade ago, so it's natural for folks to move around and have different preferences. Personally, I believe that the video material on YouTube is valuable, but also complimentary to interactive sites like SMC and other social media. For me, it's not a competition; rather, it's an enriched opportunity to learn and share. And don't forget that there is a relatively high percentage of folks who don't have sufficient Internet bandwidth to fully benefit from streaming videos because they don't have access to actual broadband connections where they live. And the way things are going...that's not likely to change in the recent future in most geographies that have this limitation.

[Chase Mueller]

+1 on that Jim. I don't see other platforms as competition like some may. I see it as growth potential. Like your surface area of absorbable knowledge increasing, if that makes sense.

[Rick Potter]

I watch a lot of you tube , but the Creek is also my social media spot. No way do I do Facebook or Twitter.

Yeah, I know. I don't get out much.

[glenn bradley]

I prefer not to learn in a vacuum. In an interactive environment I have folks to reign me in if I start going off the rails and to add credence or corrections to what I think I may have learned from a book or video. You Tube is great, books are great, magazines are great BUT, when I am learning a new skill or technique, I want feedback.

[Myk Rian]

... Other times, people go into too much detail.
You ought to try an astronomy forum. You can always count on an extended dissertation to a simple question.

[Marshall Harrison]

You ought to try an astronomy forum. You can always count on an extended dissertation to a simple question.

I've been in different forums since the '90s and I have never don an astronomy forum despite an life long interest in astronomy and several scopes.

[James Waldron]

[snip]

... recent future ....

[snip]

??? :eek::eek::eek: :D

[Steve Peterson]

I watch Youtube when it is the only source of information on a subject. However, I can scroll through a thread with feedback from 20 different people in 1/10 as much time and usually get more useful information.

Text is so much faster to scroll through than watching video. I don't understand how every single news feed seems to have video stories instead of text with a few pictures. Who has time for all of that?

[Marshall Harrison]

??? :eek::eek::eek: :D

I knew what he meant but the term seems strange. maybe Jim is in a different time continuum. After all he is a moderator. :D

[James Waldron]

I knew what he meant but the term seems strange. maybe Jim is in a different time continuum. After all he is a moderator. :D

OH, a moderator! I understand. The laws of physics are suspended for moderators; they can be in more that one place at a time, like paired quarks. I should have realized.


It's like the physicist stopped by a cop; got mouthy and ended up having his car searched. The cop got to the trunk.

Cop: "You've got a dead cat back here."

Physicist: "Well, I do NOW!"


Quantum computing is the only possible way to moderate SMC and remain sane. Of course, sanity has no actual meaning in quantum physics.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

There are probably a lot of long time users realize that if someone asks a common question (FAQ) most of the replies have been stated many times and more of the same adds little to the thread. To those FAQs, if there haven't been a number of responses, I will sometimes respond. There are some FAQs that I will almost always respond as I believe a lot of people fail to realize the importance of a method for example. Take benchtop mortiser chisels and bits. I had to find out for myself how important sharpening those chisels and bits is for a benchtop mortiser to work well. Thus, I will almost always respond to threads with that topic emphasizing my belief that sharpening and honing is very important.

I think there is a place for Youtube but I also think there is a place for websites like SMC. I haven't felt any comradery at Youtube but I have made some friends here at SMC.

[Richard Yates]

I agree with Jim,Ken & Glenn.

Glenn actually said it spot on with all that’s available there’s nothing like feedback and talking with others in the know to nut something out. And as Ken said you may make some friends along the way. No Video, Book or Mag can do that.

There is a movement here in Australia called Men’s Sheds. It’s for men of all ages to come together and work on anything or nothing. It is a huge success! A study found men usually don’t have the social network outside of work that the lady’s have. So when the men retire some find their a bit out of sorts.
So hence Men’s Sheds was born.

Speaking for myself I work alone all day, everyday like a total hermit! I look forward to my wife coming home so I can spew out all I have done today. Well there is only so much the poor woman can take! So it’s great for me to have a forum like this to talk to folks who eyes won’t glaze over in 10 seconds when I start talking carving or metal working or? And to talk to folks about what their doing, completed, have questions on. It’s kinda like having co workers from around the world!

So there’s a big need for forums like this for folks like us that have these kind of lives

regards Richard

[Jim Becker]

You ought to try an astronomy forum. You can always count on an extended dissertation to a simple question.

Or a beekeeping forum...for every ten Beeks there are eleven opinions. :) :D

[Dave Zellers]

Well it should be noted that most YouTubers do interact with their viewers through the comments, and some are better than others.

But it's not even close to being the same as SMC.

[Andrew Joiner]

I prefer not to learn in a vacuum. In an interactive environment I have folks to reign me in if I start going off the rails and to add credence or corrections to what I think I may have learned from a book or video. You Tube is great, books are great, magazines are great BUT, when I am learning a new skill or technique, I want feedback.
I agree Glenn.

I need to look at as many sides of a craft as possible. I found woodworking to be very bound by tradition when I first got into it. After all it's one of the oldest crafts. I was a rule breaker and still tend be.

As a retired self employed woodworker I like to interact here on the creek. It keeps me open minded. What works well for me may seem crazy to a woodworker just starting out. I have learned a lot here and shared my experience too.

I now know THE BEST way to sharpen tools from scanning the Neanderthal Haven:cool:!
Nothing better than the free exchange of ideas to hone one's skills.

[Rod Sheridan]

I prefer not to learn in a vacuum. In an interactive environment I have folks to reign me in if I start going off the rails and to add credence or corrections to what I think I may have learned from a book or video. You Tube is great, books are great, magazines are great BUT, when I am learning a new skill or technique, I want feedback.

Agreed, feedback is important.

For me it's also a social thing. I don't have any social media accounts, however I'm a member of 3 wood working forums, this one, Canadian Woodworking where I'm a moderator, and FOG. I also am a member of a vintage motorcycle forum.

I have only met Rich Riddle in person, however many of you I consider virtual friends and would really enjoy having a coffee with you, I respect your opinions and advice. You're the sort of people I would like to have as friends.

That's not true with respect to something I've seen on YouTube................Regards, Rod.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I agree, Rod. Having been away for a couple years, coming back to see familiar names and shops is nice. Almost feels like coming home, which is definitely not something that the facebook and youtube type of ww media can provide. There is a noticeable decrease in daily activity on the forum though. I don't know why others go inactive, but I just got busy with other parts of my life and didn't have the time. I'm glad you guys kept the lights on while I was away!

[Chuck Saunders]

Well it should be noted that most YouTubers do interact with their viewers through the comments, and some are better than others.

But it's not even close to being the same as SMC.

I think that is the difference. In YouTube there is the presenter who is the appointed authority (it's their channel after all) and everyone else is the audience. At the Creek there is more equality among the voices with the authoritative answer coming from consensus. The atmosphere of the community is vital to the forum's identity and rules and moderation make that possible.
Chuck

[Rod Sheridan]

It's nice to have you back Steve, I've missed your posts..............Regards, Rod.

[Cary Falk]

I read through the replies and I don't think I saw anybody mention one thing. A how to video on YouTube is already there. You don't have to post the question and then wait....wait...and then wait some more if an answer is posted at all. If I am doing something, I don't have time to wait unless I am researching ahead of time. You should research ahead of time but sometimes things go sideways in the middle of doing something. I also do things at odd hours(it's 3:30AM now)which doesn't help in getting a lot of responces immediately. The forums are more social if you me.