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Bruce Page
02-18-2003, 11:24 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but does cherry sun-darken quicker with a finish or without? I set an unfinished piece outside in the sun and didn’t see much difference after two weeks. Is summer heat a factor? :confused:

D.McDonnel "Mac"
02-19-2003, 8:08 AM
I don't remember that it makes a difference. Have you tried putting a test piece out with a piece of cardboard taped on it and check to see if and how quick you get tanlines? You could even do an oiled board and an unfinished board trackiing the results over time and report back to us on the difference. By the way it is the UV rays that do the darkening not the heat.

Let us know what you find out!

Kirk (KC) Constable
02-19-2003, 8:14 AM
I think heat is a factor, whether it's summer or not...or outdoors or in. My experience has been that if you're using an oil on cherry, oiling it first then sunning it will darken it a bit more quickly.

One of the tricks to working cherry is to just not worry about it. Give it a little sun if you want to, but finish it and put it in place. Then be patient. I've got a little table in a corner that was pretty pale when finished. It gets very little direct light, but it's darkened up nicely in 3 or 4 years.

KC

Jason Roehl
02-19-2003, 9:42 AM
Originally posted by Kirk (KC) Constable

One of the tricks to working cherry is to just not worry about it. Give it a little sun if you want to, but finish it and put it in place. Then be patient. I've got a little table in a corner that was pretty pale when finished. It gets very little direct light, but it's darkened up nicely in 3 or 4 years.

KC

My BIL made a cherry coffee table for us that was finished only with a water-base poly. It was pretty when he first delivered it, and 5 years later, it is even more beautiful with the natural darkening. It really only took about 6 months for the aging to become noticeable.

Jason

Glenn Clabo
02-19-2003, 9:49 AM
Of all the natural things...Sunlight darkers (oxidies) cherry fast. If the sunlight is not hitting the entire area, but is not completely covered, it will eventual equalize. If you stain it darker...it won't get much darker but will even out.

Cherry will change color when exposed to strong acids. Another way to age cherry, teak, and walnut is to apply liquid ammonia as an oxidizer.

Lesson learned... If you are plastering around cherry protect it. Otherwise, the lye from the plaster will leave a very red splotch on the wood that won't wash off!

Jason Roehl
02-19-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Glenn Clabo

Cherry will change color when exposed to strong acids. Another way to age cherry, teak, and walnut is to apply liquid ammonia as an oxidizer.


I'm a little confused here...ammonia is a basic substance, so do both acids and bases speed the darkening?

Jason

Dave Arbuckle
02-19-2003, 10:36 AM
KC wrote: "I think heat is a factor"

This is an idea that I have been kicking around too. What especially pointed it out to me is that I got a very quick darkening from a piece where I used heated linseed oil. Some more experimentation is in order, but it feels good to see someone else coming to the same conclusion.

Dave

Glenn Clabo
02-19-2003, 10:42 AM
Good question! I'm not a chemist so you made me realize that my memory and experience weren't good enough to answer your question so I did a google search to find out where I read it. I couldn't find the exact article I remembered but here is something that I did find at WoodWeb that says both acids or bases work. He even goes on to warn about plaster...which I wish I read before I finished my kitchen. :MAD:

Chemically "aging" cherry
by Professor Gene Wengert

Q.
Is there a chemical method that can be used to obtain the dark red color cherry gets with age?

A.
Joanie Cunningham writes that she ages cherry using Draino. Cherry and a few other species will change color when exposed to strong acids or bases. Another way to age cherry, teak, and walnut is to apply liquid ammonia as an oxidizer. (Check the cleaning section of the grocery store). At the same time, be careful--in addition to risks of applying chemicals themselves, the wood surface has a different make-up. Don't use it where kids might suck the wood. Also, the change in acidity can affect the curing rate of certain finishes. In years past, oxalic acid was used very often as a color modifier.


Professor Gene Wengert is Extension Specialist in Wood Processing at the Department of Forestry, University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Jason Roehl
02-19-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Glenn Clabo
Also, the change in acidity can affect the curing rate of certain finishes. In years past, oxalic acid was used very often as a color modifier.


This is one part I was well aware of. Most traditional finish strippers are basic in nature, so any basic material applied before a finish might cause problems if not neutralized. I'm not sure about some of the newer strippers such as Citri-Strip, but the citric nature implies that it might be acidic.

Jason

Brad Hammond
02-19-2003, 7:32 PM
my sun darkening recipe has always invloved oiling the piece first and putting it in the sun. i've always tried to get it in the sun before 10a or so, that way i can get some good direct noon sunshine on it. i also turn it every couple of hours.
i've also noticed that some of the cherry that i've recovered that's close to 70-80 yrs old darkens alot quicker and darker than the cherry that was cut last year.
cya
brad

Bruce Page
02-19-2003, 7:43 PM
I did mask off an area on my test piece of cherry and saw only a slight difference in color after 2 weeks in the New Mexico sun. During the test period, temperatures only got up to the mid 50’s. I’m building a cherry & maple, swinging cradle that will be put to use in early June. As everyone knows, cradles are only used for a few months and then put away until the next addition come along. I would like the cradle to have that rich cherry look on the first go-around. I’m leery of using a dye or stain for fear that it will become too dark over time. I’m going to have to check out the vinegar trick, it might be just what I’m looking for. Drano probably isn’t a good idea in this application.

Thanks a lot for the ideas!

Dave Crabbs
02-20-2003, 7:11 PM
If you are going to use a drain cleaner to age cherry do not use Drain-O. It has a blue dye in it and may give your cherry a blue tint. I have used Red Devil Lye drain cleaner to age cherry. Make sure you wear protective gloves and goggles. What I have done is mix a couple tablespoons of Lye drain cleaner to a quart of water. Using a cheap brush I applied this to the cherry then washed it off with white vinager. You may want to test this on a scrap of cherry to see how long you want the mixture to sit to give you the color you want. Be careful when using this as any drain cleaner will get hot and can cause burns to any exposed skin.
Dave

Jim DeLaney
02-20-2003, 8:54 PM
Easy-Off oven cleaner in the spray can will darken cherry quickly. rinse thoroughly with water, or water with a little white vinegar, after a few minutes and you've aged it several years appearance-wise...