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Mike Cary
04-07-2018, 8:33 PM
I read some threads here with flu related topics and I thought some people may be interested to know more about it. I am a medical professional. During the last swine flu scare a few years ago I was asked to write the pandemic flu plan for our county. So I've done a little research.

First, what is the flu. The flu is a bird virus. It is passed between birds, usually waterfowl, through feces. It converts at some point to an airborne strain that can be passed to humans, or a secondary vector like a pig. It usually originates in Asia, China mostly, and then travels across the world. Although the last swine strain originated in Mexico. Due to human mobility, it now travels faster than ever before. Flu does not crop up on its own because you went out side without a jacket. Flu is only spread person to person. If you wonder it you have the flu, check and see if anyone else has the flu, if they don't, neither do you. As flu is spread across America, usually from one of the coasts, watch the news and you can see it coming.

There are many strains and two types, A & B, A is the more severe. Flu season is almost always in the winter. This is because flu is spread through water droplets or vapor expelled by infected people's breath. Confined spaces spreads the flu. In the winter we are indoors more, kids are back in school, etc. Unfiltered air in airplanes is a good place to suck up some virus. When you hear that you should wash your hands and not touch your eyes or nose, while that is a really good idea, it does not help much to prevent flu, colds yes definitely, although you will hear people on TV, tell you it does. They like to make people believe they are in control. If you get the flu, you probably breathed it. Unlike the cold virus which can live on surfaces for a long time the flu is more labile.

Symptoms. The flu is an upper respiratory virus. Lungs. It is almost always accompanied with a fever. With type A usually a whopper. At least 101 degrees. Everyone I ever had, 102. You cough up copious amount of yellow to green phlegm. You will probably have severe chills, body aches and possibly headaches. If you have clogged sinuses, unproductive cough, sneezes, low grade fever, sore throat, you have a cold. While colds can go on for weeks, the flu only lasts a few days. Gastrointestinal distress in not a symptom of the flu. If you have nausea, diarrhea and your vomiting, not the flu and there is no stomach flu. 80% of the time its food poisoning.

What can you do? Well, and this is all just my opinion, stay home, eat some chicken soup and rest. All claims that antivirals can help are made from manufacturer's studies. Independent research says at best they reduce the duration of the flu 4-6 hours, and there is no independent research that suggests it reduces mortality. If you go to the ER and don't have the flu, its a good place to catch it, if you do have it, its a good place to spread it, and they cannot do anything for you. You will leave as sick as you arrived $1000 poorer. Most likely you won't have hit your insurance deductible. UNLESS, you are or have young children, older in poorer health, or are immunocompromised. Hospitals have treatments to help breathe and prevent secondary infections like pneumococcal pneumonia.

You CANNOT catch the flu from the vaccine. It is just a protein (antigen) they expose you to, not a live virus, You have an equal chance of giving birth to a calf after eating a hamburger.

Okay, that's what I think I know. If you disagree or have questions, shoot.

Yonak Hawkins
04-07-2018, 10:39 PM
Thanks for the good info, Mike. The nurse at the Corner Clinic said the Tamiflu treatment is only effective if taken within 48 hours of the first symptoms and serve to lessen the severity of the symptoms and shorten the duration by a day or two.

Jamie Buxton
04-07-2018, 11:23 PM
The flu you describe seems annoying but not fatal. However, in the past there have been flu epidemics that killed millions of people. (For instance, one in 1918 which is said to have killed 50 million people worldwide. Yes 50 million!) What's the difference? Why was it widely fatal then, but not now?

Bill Orbine
04-07-2018, 11:53 PM
Mike, What is your take about whether people should or should not get flu shots? This seems to be a fairly good debate lately.

Patrick McCarthy
04-08-2018, 12:41 AM
Mike, thank you for the info. Much appreciated to see it dissected. Best regards, Patrick

John Terefenko
04-08-2018, 3:02 AM
From a Doctor. Any thoughts???






























Flu Shot or Not?
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/2305bad7a9a4f893330a0dee2/images/cc33c453-f593-4fee-aca0-504b26bdf3b5.jpg

There is a lot of talk over the flu shot this year. US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has begun massive advertising campaigns for all of us to get our Flu shot this year. Consequently, we understand the why’s to getting the Flu shot, but they fail to provide us with information as to why not. This peer review post is to provide you with information so you can THINK and decide what is best for you and your family. Both sides of the story should be understood, but this is not to replace your medical doctor’s care. Being mindful of the facts allows you to ask questions, challenge the norm and make a choice that best suits you and your family.

The Flu shot is a vaccine that contains killed Influenza (flu) virus that is grown in eggs and given by injection. It contains ingredients that can be harmful to your health and should be noted. Let’s take a look at them.

Ethylene glycol is antifreeze
Phenol (carbolic acid) is a disinfectant and a dye
Formaldehyde is a preservative that is cancer causing
Aluminum is a toxic metal that is linked to Alzheimer’s, seizures and cancer
Thimerosal is a mercury disinfectant and a preservative which is linked to brain injury and autoimmune disease
Neomycin and Streptomycin are antibiotics that can create allergic reactions
Grown in eggs which can create allergic reactions and shock for people with egg allergies


Side effects” really is an odd term when it comes to medications. After all, whatever effects a medicine potentially creates in the body is an EFFECT, good or bad. I often wonder why the effects the medical paradigm believe are good are considered the effect and the bad ones are coined “side effects.” THINK about that. All effects of a medication are reactions to that medication. Some “side effects” are actually quite dangerous for some and shouldn’t be so disregarded and loosely phrased. Be mindful here. Below area some effects of the Flu shot:

Soreness, redness or swelling at the injection site
Low grade fever and aches and pains
Allergic reactions, breathing problems, hoarseness, wheezing, hives, paleness, weakness, fast heartbeats and dizziness
Guillain Barre Syndrome which is a condition which the body attacks its own nerve cells


Symptoms of having the Flu are fever, headache, fatigue, cough, sore throat, runny or stuffy nose, body aches, diarrhea and vomiting. The Flu has been reported to be harmful for elderly people, however research does not reflect mortality rates decreasing in groups given the Flu shot compared to those who did not receive the Flu shot. The American Academy of Pediatrics stated that you should NOT take the Flu shot if one of the following situations applies.

Less than 6 months old
Sick at the time of getting the shot
History of Guillian Barre Syndrome
Allergic or hypersensitive to eggs or another vaccine of same nature
If you have asthma, an underlying medical condition, diabetes, renal problems, immune deficiency disease and are taking aspirin


Flu strains generally change from one year to the next. Scientist work hard with hopes of picking the right strain for the winter time, but its pretty much a shot in the dark. It has been reported that they have a 70% chance of doing so. The Flu vaccine is one of those controversial topics, but it challenges you to THINK about what you are putting into your body and for what reason. Its OK to awaken to questioning what we inject, eat or do to our bodies. Are the vaccines risks worse than the actual virus? Do you feel that getting the Flu is something that is so potentially life threatening that it outweighs the harm the ingredients or “side effects” can impose now or years later? It’s your mind; your body; your life. It’s OK to pause and Think before you inject, honest. It’s OK whatever you decide, but it’s my job to provide information that may pass you by. Live well.

For more information about the Flu or other vaccines visit the National Vaccine Information Center at www.NVIC.org (http://www.nvic.org/).

This is a peer review post of medical research by Dr. Claudia Anrig. Further information can be provided. Intention is not to replace medical care or flu shot choice. This is an informative peer review post only.

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 8:00 AM
Mike, What is your take about whether people should or should not get flu shots? This seems to be a fairly good debate lately.

There shouldn't be a debate. Side effects are very rare and very mild. Its all a matter if risk. What is more dangerous, the flu or the shot. Obviously the flu. Not getting vaccinated is socially irresponsible. Its not about just you. You might say, I'm not going to get vaccinated and take my chances. If everyone thought like that, your chances sky rocket. In the end though, its a free country, if you don't want one, you don't have to get one. I would ask those people however to keep their reasons to themselves. Debating the issue only adds to the ignorance and kills people.

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 8:06 AM
My search for Dr Claudia Anrig only shows a chiropractor in California.

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 8:28 AM
One more thing on the efficacy of the vaccine this year. I am required to get the vaccine. I have been exposed almost daily by actively infected patients since November. I have not gotten sick. Further more, I have not seen a single case of the flu where the patient had the shot and got sick anyway. Every single case, the person was not vaccinated. One case recently, a nurse brought in her kids who both had Flu A, and she did not get sick, despite being exposed very closely by the germ bags that are kids. This is just anecdotal observation, not a scientific study, so take it as it is. BTW, the nurse of course was vaccinated.

roger wiegand
04-08-2018, 8:36 AM
Here's a link to a good, short article that describes some of the ingredients discussed above. https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/01/scared-flu-vaccine-lets-see-whats-really-inside.html

As Paracelsus (the father of toxicology) taught us "only the dose makes the poison". Using scary words like formaldehyde to drive an anti-science agenda can be seen for what it is when you realize that if you eat a pear you will get 50 times more formaldehyde than from a flu shot-- and at that, it will still be a trivial, irrelevant amount. Your body and your gut bugs make vastly more as part of normal metabolism.

Or take aluminum "a toxic metal" alleged to cause a variety of diseases. It's the third most abundant element on earth, accounting for about 8% of the planet, and the most abundant metal. It is everywhere, in everything, most especially in the dirt under our feet. If it were actually toxic at any important level we'd all be dead long since. (The Alzheimer's association has been disproved for at least a decade; I haven't the time or energy to look into the cancer association, but I can guess that it also was some combination of whopping doses in rodents combined with some p-hacking to create an "association" where none exists.

Flu shots save lives, lots of them. Unless you are one of the people for whom it is contraindicated it is unwise not to get one for your own health and irresponsible to those around you, especially if you ever have contact with people who are old, very young, or immune suppressed.

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 9:20 AM
I just realized that I am very close to being drug into one of those fruitless debates that might negatively define my relationship with fellow members. Not a good idea, I might need help tuning a bandsaw or something in the future. My only purpose for posting this thread was to help people recognize signs and symptoms of the flu because some folks had some confusion over them vs other illnesses.

Let’s not get into the efficacy of vaccines. Trust me, no one is going to change their minds here, and their opinions need not define them in your minds:

Erik Loza
04-08-2018, 9:29 AM
Just get the shot. Last time I had the flu, it was miserable and I wished 100X I would have gotten the shot. My office pays for the shot and even then, some of the staff are like, "Oh, I don't have time/I don't think it works/blah, blah, blah". Then, they are out for a week while it runs through their whole family. It is cheap or free, readily available pretty much everywhere. How is this even a thing nowadays?

Erik

Bill Orbine
04-08-2018, 9:38 AM
There shouldn't be a debate. Side effects are very rare and very mild. Its all a matter if risk. What is more dangerous, the flu or the shot. Obviously the flu. Not getting vaccinated is socially irresponsible. Its not about just you. You might say, I'm not going to get vaccinated and take my chances. If everyone thought like that, your chances sky rocket. In the end though, its a free country, if you don't want one, you don't have to get one. I would ask those people however to keep their reasons to themselves. Debating the issue only adds to the ignorance and kills people.

Thanks for the reply. I have not had the flu since I gotten flu shots the past few years. It works!

Ted Calver
04-08-2018, 10:32 AM
Mike. Great thread. Perhaps start another an the subject of HPV vaccinations for our kids and grand kids.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-08-2018, 10:33 AM
Mike,

thanks for the information!

Jim Andrew
04-08-2018, 10:37 AM
Funny how we are urged to get the vaccine, then find they gave us the wrong strain, as there are huge numbers of strains.

John Stankus
04-08-2018, 11:02 AM
Funny how we are urged to get the vaccine, then find they gave us the wrong strain, as there are huge numbers of strains.

Not really that funny. It is actually like trying to figure out who is going to be in the Final Four BEFORE the season starts. Production lead time is long enough they have to make an educated prediction.

Having had to go to the ER with flu one year (a year I didn’t get the flu vaccine) has convinced me to get the vaccine every fall. Even if it lessens the effect only 10% I will take it. I was pretty damn miserable that bout, and I was only in my mid forties

John

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 12:02 PM
The flu you describe seems annoying but not fatal. However, in the past there have been flu epidemics that killed millions of people. (For instance, one in 1918 which is said to have killed 50 million people worldwide. Yes 50 million!) What's the difference? Why was it widely fatal then, but not now?

There are a few reasons why Flus are deadly. In older people (80% of fatalities) not taking deep breathes causes pneumonia. In more virulent stains the virus over stimulates the immune system. Inflammatory responses of the flu, body aches, fever is your bodies way of attacking the virus. But, viruses are just packets of RNA that need to infect a cell to replicate. So your body must have a means to attack that cell. Your own body. If the immune system gets over activated in can produce too many cytokines which can cause a septic type illness (mimics blood infection) and cause organs to shut down. Then you’re dead.

Michael Weber
04-08-2018, 12:55 PM
Threads like this are why I like reading SMC. I also wonder what the reason was the flu pandemic of early last century killed so many besides the obvious reason of no vaccine. Was it just particularly bad as opposed to most strains? I suppose these strains are ever evolving.

Mike Cary
04-08-2018, 1:05 PM
My guess without pulling out the books would be viral load. The body Responds proportionally. In cases of actual sepsis bacteria is throughout the blood steam and the body trying to attack that big of an infection can over stimulate, even in cases of severe trauma like massive injuries in a car accident the body can over produce cytokines and cause multiple organ failure. Virulent flu strains probably produce large amounts of the virus. I’ll check it out.

Andrew Joiner
04-08-2018, 4:47 PM
I just realized that I am very close to being drug into one of those fruitless debates that might negatively define my relationship with fellow members. Not a good idea, I might need help tuning a bandsaw or something in the future. My only purpose for posting this thread was to help people recognize signs and symptoms of the flu because some folks had some confusion over them vs other illnesses.

Let’s not get into the efficacy of vaccines. Trust me, no one is going to change their minds here, and their opinions need not define them in your minds:
Mike,
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.

Brian Deakin
04-08-2018, 6:14 PM
I hope the advice below both helps and educates


Advice for people with influenza

What advice should I give someone to help manage influenza?



Advise the person:

To drink adequate fluids.
To take paracetamol or ibuprofen( if not contraindicated )for symptomatic relief.
To rest in bed if they are feeling fatigued.
To stay off work or school. For most people, about 1 week will be adequate.
That the worst symptoms of uncomplicated influenza (including fever) usually resolve after about 1 week, although other symptoms (such as cough, headache, insomnia, weakness, and loss of appetite) may take longer than 2 weeks to resolve.


Advise the person that routine follow up is not necessary, but they should:

Seek urgent medical attention if they develop shortness of breath or pleuritic chest pain, or if they start to cough up blood (haemoptysis).
Arrange a follow-up appointment if there is no improvement after 1 week (that is, they are still significantly ill), or they are deteriorating.
Have a lower threshold for seeking help if they are caring for a young child or baby with influenza, as children cannot accurately communicate their symptoms.


Back to top (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#top)Basis for recommendation

Self-care advice


It is universally recommended that adequate fluid intake should be maintained when symptoms of influenza are present, to replace fluid lost by fever, sweating, and nasal discharge. However, a Cochrane systematic review (search date: December 2010) found no controlled trials assessing the effect of increasing fluid intake in people with acute respiratory infections [Guppy et al, 2011 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)]. The authors of the Cochrane systematic review concluded that randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are needed to determine the true effect of this universally recommended medical advice.
Paracetamol and ibuprofen are recommended for the symptomatic relief of influenza on the basis that they reduce fever and pain (including headache and myalgia).

The antipyretic and analgesic efficacy of paracetamol and ibuprofen have been confirmed by RCTs in several conditions, including influenza and the common cold [Eccles, 2006 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)].
Aspirin is not usually recommended as it has a less favourable adverse effect profile than other simple analgesics. It is contraindicated in children younger than 16 years of age because of the risk of Reye's syndrome.


Many people with influenza feel ill and fatigued to the extent that they voluntarily take to their beds [Jennings and Read, 2005 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)], and this should be encouraged. This level of illness may also differentiate influenza from the common cold.
There are no formal guidelines as to how long a person should stay off work or school, but prognostic data from the placebo arms of controlled trials indicate that most people should feel sufficiently well to return to normal activities after 1 week at most .

Advice about when to seek medical attention


CKS identified no reviews or guidelines on when it is appropriate to follow up a person with influenza. Therefore, these recommendations reflect what CKS considers to be good clinical practice.

The natural history of influenza indicates that symptoms should be improving after 1 week [Jennings and Read, 2005 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553); Burch et al, 2008 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)]. If symptoms are not improving or are worsening, reassessment of the diagnosis should be considered.
Shortness of breath, pain on breathing, and haemoptysis may indicate the development of pneumonia secondary to bacterial superinfection, most commonly with Streptococcus pneumoniae, Staphylococcus aureus, or Haemophilus influenzae. This is the most common complication of influenza and is the main cause of death. Therefore, it is prudent to advise the person to seek medical attention if they develop symptoms of lower respiratory tract infection [Jennings and Read, 2005 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)].


Back to top (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#top)Follow up and admission

When should I follow up or admit a person with influenza?



[B]Consider follow up (particularly in frail people) after about 1 week, to confirm that symptoms are improving and to exclude the development of secondary complications.
Consider admission if a complication of influenza occurs, or if there is suspicion that the person has a serious illness other than influenza.

Pneumonia is a common complication that may be indicated by lower respiratory tract distress (characterized by laboured breathing, shortness of breath, pleuritic chest pain, and haemoptysis).

It may occur immediately, or up to 2 weeks, after initial symptoms of influenza.
For more information, see the CKS topics on Chest infections - adult (https://cks.nice.org.uk/chest-infections-adult) and Cough - acute with chest signs in children (https://cks.nice.org.uk/cough-acute-with-chest-signs-in-children).


People with diabetes (particularly type 1) are at risk of hyperglycaemia, ketoacidosis, and diabetic coma.
Other illnesses which may present with similar symptoms and signs to influenza include meningitis and malaria. See Differential diagnosis (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!diagnosissub:1) for further information.


Consider admitting:

Children younger than 1 year of age if they are in an 'at risk' group (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!scenarioclarification).
Children that have febrile symptoms that may indicate serious illness (see the CKS topic on Feverish children - risk assessment (https://cks.nice.org.uk/feverish-children-risk-assessment)).


Back to top (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#top)Basis for recommendation

Follow up


CKS identified no reviews or guidelines on when it is appropriate to follow up a person with influenza. Therefore, these recommendations reflect what CKS considers to be good clinical practice.

The natural history of influenza indicates that symptoms should be improving after 1 week [Jennings and Read, 2005 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553); Burch et al, 2008 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)]. If symptoms are not improving or are worsening, reassessment of the diagnosis should be considered.


Admission


CKS identified no reviews or guidelines on when it is appropriate to admit a person with influenza. Therefore, these recommendations reflect what CKS considers to be good clinical practice.

Pneumonia is the most common serious complication of influenza. It may be caused by the influenza virus itself, or by bacterial superinfection with Streptococcus pneumoniae, Staphylococcus aureus, or Haemophilus influenzae. Pneumonia should be regarded as a serious condition which will usually require specialist assessment and management. Bacterial pneumonia is the main cause of mortality in people who are hospitalized with influenza [Jennings and Read, 2005 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)].
People with diabetes are known to be at increased risk of bacterial pneumonia and acute complications of diabetes (such as ketoacidosis) after infection with influenza [Joshi et al, 1999 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)]. The incidence of ketoacidosis in people with diabetes has been observed to increase by 50% in influenza epidemic years [Bouter et al, 1991 (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)].
Although less common, other serious illnesses may have signs and symptoms that mimic influenza. People with these symptoms should be seen by a specialist if there is diagnostic doubt.
Children younger than 5 years of age, especially infants, who have feverish symptoms are at increased risk of serious illness and require a low threshold for admission [NICE, 2013b (https://cks.nice.org.uk/influenza-seasonal#!references/-385553)].

roger wiegand
04-08-2018, 7:22 PM
As to why the 1918 flu was so deadly-- The 1918 flu was a H1N1 strain, and most of the young population had seen only a H3N8 strain that predominated starting in 1889. This left essentially a whole generation unprotected. That coupled with the fact that antibiotics hadn't been discovered yet left a large group of young people susceptible tp pneumonia secondary to the flu infection, which was quite deadly.

Chase Mueller
04-09-2018, 8:44 AM
My guess without pulling out the books would be viral load. The body Responds proportionally. In cases of actual sepsis bacteria is throughout the blood steam and the body trying to attack that big of an infection can over stimulate, even in cases of severe trauma like massive injuries in a car accident the body can over produce cytokines and cause multiple organ failure. Virulent flu strains probably produce large amounts of the virus. I’ll check it out.

I'm in no way trying to stir the pot, and I would never advise against getting the shot, but I'm 22 and haven't had the shot since grade school. I've never gotten the flu in my life. My brother even had it several times growing up, but still never me. Any insight as to why? How could I be so close to someone infected so much but never get it?
Again, I'm in no way trying to advocate not getting it, truthfully I just forget every year.

Mike Cary
04-09-2018, 9:31 AM
I'm in no way trying to stir the pot, and I would never advise against getting the shot, but I'm 22 and haven't had the shot since grade school. I've never gotten the flu in my life. My brother even had it several times growing up, but still never me. Any insight as to why? How could I be so close to someone infected so much but never get it?
Again, I'm in no way trying to advocate not getting it, truthfully I just forget every year.

Because everyone else got the shot?
You were lucky?
You are vegan and ate only organic vegetables?(yeah probably not this one).

Mike Cary
04-09-2018, 9:40 AM
As to why the 1918 flu was so deadly-- The 1918 flu was a H1N1 strain, and most of the young population had seen only a H3N8 strain that predominated starting in 1889. This left essentially a whole generation unprotected. That coupled with the fact that antibiotics hadn't been discovered yet left a large group of young people susceptible tp pneumonia secondary to the flu infection, which was quite deadly.

First part maybe second part, Plausible but unlikely. Secondary infections leading to pneumonia are rare not common and affects primarily the elderly. The victims of Spanish flu were mostly between the ages of 20-40. Some were described as bleeding from their eyes and nose. This suggests DIC and organ failure from a over active immune response. I like yours better because it would mean it wouldn’t happen today because we have great medicine, but it could and there’s nothing we could do to help. Only us poor vaccinated folks would be left to pick up the pieces.

Chase Mueller
04-09-2018, 9:52 AM
Because everyone else got the shot?
You were lucky?
You are vegan and ate only organic vegetables?(yeah probably not this one).

LOL, could never be a vegan. I enjoy my rare steak wayyyy too much.
I figured I was lucky, was curious if there were some people who just straight up are immune or something.
None of my family ever got the shot except my dad.

Michael Weber
04-09-2018, 11:34 AM
im just curious if it's possible some people might have a natural immunity to the flu virus. Possible? I have a natural immunity to smallpox that was passed to me via DNA from my Northern European ancestors. As well, there are some instances of folks immune from the AIDS virus.

Chase Mueller
04-09-2018, 11:47 AM
I wasn't aware you could be immune to the AIDS virus. Seems pretty lucky to naturally be immune to something of that stature

Erik Loza
04-09-2018, 12:41 PM
...I'm 22 and haven't had the shot since grade school. I've never gotten the flu in my life...

I never got the shot when I was younger and didn't get the flu until I was in my late-20's. This was despite working retail for many years. Plenty of common colds but no flu. Then, when I did get it, it felt like I got hit by a car. It actually turned into walking pneumonia over a period of months because I was stubborn and figured it would "heal itself" rather than going to the hospital. Ended up losing almost 20 lbs. due to chronic fatigue and lack of appetite. I remember having to call my mom because I couldn't get myself out of bed. When she finally took me to the hospital, my temp was 104F and I remember all the oncoming car headlights looking like different colors of the spectrum. I took me MONTHS to get back to a normal state, all because of my IDGAF attitude. Point being, if I could go back in time and give myself advice, "Get the shot". Just my 2-cents.

Erik

Chase Mueller
04-09-2018, 12:54 PM
I never got the shot when I was younger and didn't get the flu until I was in my late-20's. This was despite working retail for many years. Plenty of common colds but no flu. Then, when I did get it, it felt like I got hit by a car. It actually turned into walking pneumonia over a period of months because I was stubborn and figured it would "heal itself" rather than going to the hospital. Ended up losing almost 20 lbs. due to chronic fatigue and lack of appetite. I remember having to call my mom because I couldn't get myself out of bed. When she finally took me to the hospital, my temp was 104F and I remember all the oncoming car headlights looking like different colors of the spectrum. I took me MONTHS to get back to a normal state, all because of my IDGAF attitude. Point being, if I could go back in time and give myself advice, "Get the shot". Just my 2-cents.

Erik


Similar situation happened to me as well. Was working two jobs supporting my ex through college, got what I thought was a cold, week and a half later I'm at the urgent care and was straight up told by the doctor that if I would have waited one more day, I could have fallen into a coma. I have no clue why, I guess I was too scared to ask.
But trust me, I have nothing against the flu shot. I really do forget to get mine. I just never have had it so it never dawns on me that I need to be more proactive about getting it

Bill Jobe
04-09-2018, 1:13 PM
I supposed I was right that a virus is not a living organism, that is, until recently. I am seeing more and more information that says to the contrary.
Has research found out in recent years that what they knew at the in the past was wrong?

Is a virus a living and breathing being?

Chase Mueller
04-09-2018, 1:16 PM
I supposed I was right that a virus is not a living organism, that is, until recently. I am seeing more and more information that says to the contrary.
Has research found out in recent years that what they knew at the in the past was wrong?

Is a virus a living and breathing being?


Does something have to be breathing to be living?

Mike Cary
04-09-2018, 6:10 PM
im just curious if it's possible some people might have a natural immunity to the flu virus. Possible? I have a natural immunity to smallpox that was passed to me via DNA from my Northern European ancestors. As well, there are some instances of folks immune from the AIDS virus.

There are many natural immunities. Both genetic and environmental. An example of each, people with sickle cell are immune from malaria (genetic)and people who used to milk cows were often immune from small pox because they had been exposed to cow pox.

roger wiegand
04-10-2018, 8:12 AM
The question of "are viruses alive?" is an interesting philosophical one. Here's the dictionary definition of life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death. Viruses are a little borderline on some of those criteria, they replicate in a very host-dependent fashion, I don't know that they change much during their existence, they certainly reproduce. A functional virus like MS2 can get by with only four genes, so not much there to work with, but much closer to "alive" than, say prions, which you can't really effectively kill without complete destruction of the molecule. Viroids are a whole other question, only a couple hundred bases long.

I use a very pragmatic definition of life, to wit, if I can kill it, it was alive. It's pretty easy to render a virus unable to infect and replicate (a dash of Lysol, or a bit of heat will do it), so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were alive. Something like a viroid or prion, just a bit of infectious RNA or protein that gums up the works, I would say no.

Bill Jobe
04-10-2018, 1:54 PM
The question of "are viruses alive?" is an interesting philosophical one. Here's the dictionary definition of life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death. Viruses are a little borderline on some of those criteria, they replicate in a very host-dependent fashion, I don't know that they change much during their existence, they certainly reproduce. A functional virus like MS2 can get by with only four genes, so not much there to work with, but much closer to "alive" than, say prions, which you can't really effectively kill without complete destruction of the molecule. Viroids are a whole other question, only a couple hundred bases long.

I use a very pragmatic definition of life, to wit, if I can kill it, it was alive. It's pretty easy to render a virus unable to infect and replicate (a dash of Lysol, or a bit of heat will do it), so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were alive. Something like a viroid or prion, just a bit of infectious RNA or protein that gums up the works, I would say no.

Well then it seems to me you've opened the door to elements having "life".