3M Accuspray gun/nozzle users - prepurchase question

[Mike Dowell]

I don't have to tell you how sick and tired I am of cleaning my sprayers, switching from lacquer to shellac to sanding sealer to waterborne finishes etc - total time waster in my shop.

For those of you who use the Accuspray gun and disposable nozzle sets: How long is a nozzle set usable until you have to throw it away and put on a new one? They are about 5 bucks each which is worth it even if I could only spray once per nozzle but I'm sure you can use it more than once before tossing. I can use my lacquer sprayer multiple times before having to clean something. I just run a little lacquer thinner through it and its more or less ready to go many times.

[Wayne Lomman]

Apart from direct answers other may have, consider cutting back on the wide variety of finishes you are using. As you say, washing up is time consuming. Disposable components is also waste of a different sort. Look at simplifying and standardizing your finishing procedures as well. I run a paint shop that puts out maybe 1200 projects annually which are fully guaranteed to perform beyond the customer's expectations. We use only 3 products unless the client provides a written specification requesting something different at which point they are provided with a quote for the extra cost including cleaning up. Finishing procedures set up to be simple and streamlined make money. Cheers

[Patrick Chase]

I run a paint shop that puts out maybe 1200 projects annually which are fully guaranteed to perform beyond the customer's expectations. We use only 3 products unless the client provides a written specification requesting something different at which point they are provided with a quote for the extra cost including cleaning up.

Out of curiosity, what are your 3 standard products?

[Mike Dowell]

Well, I use Shellac, Lacquer, and some water based finishes. The water based stuff is the only gun which is easily cleaned.

[John Kee]

I bought an Accuspray to use strictly for spraying primer, turned out to be a total waste of money and actually as it got more use took longer to clean than my CAT guns with the same PPS system. IMHO not a great design for long term use.

[Mike Dowell]

I bought an Accuspray to use strictly for spraying primer, turned out to be a total waste of money and actually as it got more use took longer to clean than my CAT guns with the same PPS system. IMHO not a great design for long term use.
But you don’t clean it. You just replace the head.

[Kevin Nathanson]

I love the whole system. I use the 1.3, 1.4, 1.8, and 2.0 nozzles. They last quite a while, assuming you rinse them with whatever solvent is appropriate for your coating. You will know you have to replace them when the seals start to leak and you can hear the gun 'bleed' pressure. As far as the rest of the system, you only need to wipe off the needle, and then flush the gun the way one normally would. I'm not sure what other cleaning is being referred to.

K

[John Kee]

Well Mike I used one for year and never got away with just replacing head. After about the first month of use leakage was an issue and continual cleaning of the needle mechanism. The gun would randomly start pulsing and spattering the spray. If you believe the marketing instead of a user then go ahead and buy one. In the long run it's an expensive disposable gun with tips running about $4.00 each. My CAT H20 type gravity PPS guns are a breeze to clean and change finish/needle/tip. I have 2 guns for regular spraying and 1 gun typically is loaded with a clear WB all the time.

[Patrick Chase]

I bought an Accuspray to use strictly for spraying primer, turned out to be a total waste of money and actually as it got more use took longer to clean than my CAT guns with the same PPS system. IMHO not a great design for long term use.


But you don’t clean it. You just replace the head.

"Accuspray" is a system that includes this gun (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01497MZB6/ref=asc_df_B01497MZB65429105/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B01497MZB6&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198065480126&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8047671323216327997&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032032&hvtargid=pla-385426193915) with disposable plastic cap and fluid interconnect modules on the low end, as well as more traditional guns with stainless fluid passages and aluminum caps at $500-600. It's possible you're talking about completely different things here.

[Patrick Chase]

Well Mike I used one for year and never got away with just replacing head. After about the first month of use leakage was an issue and continual cleaning of the needle mechanism.

Was it leaking out of the needle packing?

Asking because as far as I can tell that's the only fluidic interface between the disposable "fluid section" and the rest of the gun. If so is there a packing nut that you can adjust?

[John Kee]

Patrick I bought the gun in your link but only a straight 1.8mm, it has no packing nut to adjust for leakage. As the needle wears with daily use the unit started to leak more quickly even with new head. It now hangs in my spray booth as a reminder of money wasted. Maybe I got a bad unit but I'm not wasting more money to find out. I'll stick to what works for me and warn others of my experience.

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick I bought the gun in your link but only a straight 1.8mm, it has no packing nut to adjust for leakage. As the needle wears with daily use the unit started to leak more quickly even with new head. It now hangs in my spray booth as a reminder of money wasted. Maybe I got a bad unit but I'm not wasting more money to find out. I'll stick to what works for me and warn others of my experience.

The lack of any sort of packing adjustment sounds like a design flaw to me. To be honest I've steered clear of cheap guns like that up until now, with the exception of a small DeVilbiss LVLP-ish conversion gun that I use for touch-up.

Can you explain how they're able to support different orifice diameters with a single needle like that? Is there some sort of "center shroud" up in the disposable part to fill the gaps in the larger caps?

EDIT: They do sell replacement needles, but they're as expensive as most manufacturers' fluid+cap sets: https://www.amazon.com/3M-16571-Accuspray-Fluid-Needle/dp/B004IQLIMG

[Mike Dowell]

I bought an Accuspray to use strictly for spraying primer, turned out to be a total waste of money and actually as it got more use took longer to clean than my CAT guns with the same PPS system. IMHO not a great design for long term use.

Yes that gun you linked is exactly what I was referring to. Thank you for this clarification.


"Accuspray" is a system that includes this gun (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01497MZB6/ref=asc_df_B01497MZB65429105/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B01497MZB6&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198065480126&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8047671323216327997&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032032&hvtargid=pla-385426193915) with disposable plastic cap and fluid interconnect modules on the low end, as well as more traditional guns with stainless fluid passages and aluminum caps at $500-600. It's possible you're talking about completely different things here.

[John Kee]

I only have the one gun so I'm going to assume the basic needle diameter is the same through the body of the gun until it gets to the area of the replaceable head. You change the needle size and couple it with the appropriate colour coded head. Maybe Kevin can offer some insight since he has the version with multiple needles and heads.

[Patrick Chase]

I only have the one gun so I'm going to assume the basic needle diameter is the same through the body of the gun until it gets to the area of the replaceable head. You change the needle size and couple it with the appropriate colour coded head. Maybe Kevin can offer some insight since he has the version with multiple needles and heads.

That's the thing that confuses me: There is only one needle for that gun (P/N 16571, the one I linked in the addendum to my previous post). I don't understand how they vary the diameter of the fluid passage simply by swapping the plastic part, unless the constriction is before the tip of the needle or there some sort of "shroud".

Maybe I should get one just to pull it apart :-).

[Wayne Lomman]

Out of curiosity, what are your 3 standard products?
Patrick, I use Interzinc 52, Interplus 1180 and Interthane 990 in the paint shop. That's for steel protection in offshore marine work (product on its way to Canada and USA as I write). In the woodworking shop it is even simpler - Wattyl Stylwood lacquer or Valspar 2K polyurethane. Wattyl dye and pigment stains when required. I am not a fan of any waterborne finishes available. This is not a problem for me because we simply don't have the air quality issues that plague the northern hemisphere and I have unlimited space for polishing under the sky with no-one to complain about it. Cheers

[John Kee]

Unfortunately we are stuck with the regulations that extremely high population densities generate with IMHO California being the main culprit. Regs put in place their, for better or worse affect both the USA and Canada.

[John TenEyck]

Mike, if you use the PPS system on a,normal gun cleanup is less than 5 minutes. Throw away the cup liner, soak the aircap and nozzle, and rinse out the fluid passages. It all takes 5 minutes max. I sometimes switch from shellac to BIN to WB paint, to clear coat in the same day, all with the same gun. Not ideal, but I'm cheap. Never had a contamination problem.

John

[Mike Dowell]

Mike, if you use the PPS system on a,normal gun cleanup is less than 5 minutes. Throw away the cup liner, soak the aircap and nozzle, and rinse out the fluid passages. It all takes 5 minutes max. I sometimes switch from shellac to BIN to WB paint, to clear coat in the same day, all with the same gun. Not ideal, but I'm cheap. Never had a contamination problem.

John

I might just do this. There are definitely mixed reviews on that inexpensive gun. I have a Qualspray RP gun I bout from Jeff JeWitt and I love the thing.

[Patrick Chase]

I might just do this. There are definitely mixed reviews on that inexpensive gun. I have a Qualspray RP gun I bout from Jeff JeWitt and I love the thing.

Jeff sells those "kitted" with PPS. If you need to retrofit it'a a #2 PPS adapter, same as Fuji's gravity guns.

[John TenEyck]

I might just do this. There are definitely mixed reviews on that inexpensive gun. I have a Qualspray RP gun I bout from Jeff JeWitt and I love the thing.

I use a Qualspray AM-6008 HVLP with the PPS system. Clean up should be just as easy with your gun. Cleaning the plastic cup shouldn't take more than a minute; but changing to the PPS system would make that task 0. I actually don't throw the liners away, I clean and reuse them, but I don't have to eat from what I sell.

If you like the gun you have I don't see a reason to change for the sake of trying to save time cleaning it. Shellac and lacquer are easily cleaned with just a little solvent, and soap and water with a little ammonia added for WB products. If it's taking more than 10 minutes, total, to be spraying something new something is wrong.

John

[Mike Dowell]

I use a Qualspray AM-6008 HVLP with the PPS system. Clean up should be just as easy with your gun. Cleaning the plastic cup shouldn't take more than a minute; but changing to the PPS system would make that task 0. I actually don't throw the liners away, I clean and reuse them, but I don't have to eat from what I sell.

If you like the gun you have I don't see a reason to change for the sake of trying to save time cleaning it. Shellac and lacquer are easily cleaned with just a little solvent, and soap and water with a little ammonia added for WB products. If it's taking more than 10 minutes, total, to be spraying something new something is wrong.

John

Well, I don't fully clean my gun after each use. For example, if I spray a table with NC lacquer, when I'm done for the day, I just run some LT through the cup and out the tip. After a while though - and I never know when- the little filter gets too much gunk or something gets too gummed up between the filter and the nozzle and boom - a crap spray comes out unexpectedly. Then, instead of spraying my table, I'm sitting there disassembling my gun for a fully, thorough cleaning and yes, that sometimes takes more than 10 minutes. Soaking the air cap in LT, etc. I think I'll just keep using this gun though, and maybe fit it for the PPS cups. That sounds like a reasonable compromise.

Further, I use lacquer, shellac and WB products(really excited to try my new Target Coatings stuff). Switching between those three on the fly seems cumbersome, but having more than one "nice sprayer" is too rich for my blood.

[Kevin Nathanson]

So I have three SATA guns in addition to the Accuspray. Cleaning those SATAs is easy if everything is still wet; rinse with appropriate solvent, etc. Once things start to dry though? Not a five minute job any more, especially with WB finishes that catalyze. They no longer dissolve in water—duh!—and then you are working with a wire brush and tiny steel probes to clear out the small holes in the air caps. Lacquer would be a lot easier to deal with, but I try not to shoot solvent-based finishes. Stuff like Kilz? Same issue; it dries SO fast that it can really gum up the works. Yes, you can add a retarder, but it seems stupid to me to end up with longer dry times and runs in your work just because you want to make the gun easier to clean! (Why all the guns? SATAs in 1.0, 1.1 and 1.3, hence not much redundancy, and for the guns I have, 1.4 is the max offered. Suffice it to say that Kilz and Latex paint do NOT spray well through 1.4...)

As far as the needles: One needle for multiple aircaps. The offset of the aircaps varies, with the larger ones being further forward of the needle than the smaller ones, and the needle is significantly more tapered than a typical single-orifice size needle. You really can't disassemble the gun without driving roll pins out of the plastic, so that is not considered 'normal' service.

K

[Patrick Chase]

As far as the needles: One needle for multiple aircaps. The offset of the aircaps varies, with the larger ones being further forward of the needle than the smaller ones, and the needle is significantly more tapered than a typical single-orifice size needle. You really can't disassemble the gun without driving roll pins out of the plastic, so that is not considered 'normal' service.

Thanks, that was what I was asking. That might leave the needle projecting into the atomization airstream with intermediate fluid settings (needle not fully retracted) in the largest caps, but I assume they've tested it and figured all of that out. There is precedent - For example Fuji shares needles between aircaps that are close together in size.

[Patrick Chase]

Well, I don't fully clean my gun after each use.

[snip]

Further, I use lacquer, shellac and WB products(really excited to try my new Target Coatings stuff). Switching between those three on the fly seems cumbersome, but having more than one "nice sprayer" is too rich for my blood.

You probably know this already, but: You don't have any realistic choice with the WB stuff. You have to thoroughly clean that before it cures. If not you will either be in for a long cleaning project as Kevin described or trash your gun outright. With nitro and shellac you can just soak your way out of trouble as you say.

As I think back to all of my marginal cleaning experiences, I'm suddenly very tempted by the Accuspray dispose-a-gun. The cost of the fluid heads is negligible compared to the finishes I use and the value of the time I spend.

One remark: Note that the Accuspray gun come in 2 variants, standard and "HGP". The "HGP" has a cup pressurization port (what John T calls "pressure assist"), which is a handy thing if you already have H/O-type PPS cups as I do. The HGP gun comes in a kit with 1.8 and 2.0 mm caps, but it's compatible with the smaller ones.

[John TenEyck]

Well, I don't fully clean my gun after each use. For example, if I spray a table with NC lacquer, when I'm done for the day, I just run some LT through the cup and out the tip. After a while though - and I never know when- the little filter gets too much gunk or something gets too gummed up between the filter and the nozzle and boom - a crap spray comes out unexpectedly. Then, instead of spraying my table, I'm sitting there disassembling my gun for a fully, thorough cleaning and yes, that sometimes takes more than 10 minutes. Soaking the air cap in LT, etc. I think I'll just keep using this gun though, and maybe fit it for the PPS cups. That sounds like a reasonable compromise.

Further, I use lacquer, shellac and WB products(really excited to try my new Target Coatings stuff). Switching between those three on the fly seems cumbersome, but having more than one "nice sprayer" is too rich for my blood.

Mike, no offense, but I think you are costing yourself more time by trying to avoid cleaning your gun between uses than it would take to do so. When finish is fresh it cleans out of the gun with just a little solvent. I'm not kidding, 5 to 10 minutes. And then your gun is clean and you know it will spray as you expect to the next time.

In any case, get rid of that little plastic filter under the cup; they are nothing but trouble. Throw it as far as you can and don't go look for it. Strain your finish as you put it into the cup, clean the gun at the end of the day, and then go have a beer.


John

[Mike Dowell]

Mike, no offense, but I think you are costing yourself more time by trying to avoid cleaning your gun between uses than it would take to do so. When finish is fresh it cleans out of the gun with just a little solvent. I'm not kidding, 5 to 10 minutes. And then your gun is clean and you know it will spray as you expect to the next time.

In any case, get rid of that little plastic filter under the cup; they are nothing but trouble. Throw it as far as you can and don't go look for it. Strain your finish as you put it into the cup, clean the gun at the end of the day, and then go have a beer.


John

hahaha - no offense taken John. I think you're completely right about basically being more proactive about cleaning. And actually, I didn't know about the WB stuff being a pain to clean up post-cure so that's a great fun-fact prior to spraying this stuff. Also what I didn't know was about the little filter screen being bad to use. When I consulted with Jeff JeWitt prior to purchasing, he was telling me to put it in upside down because it makes it easier to get out. I assumed because he told me this, it was a good idea to have in there but looking back, there have been many times that thing was clogged - so it has to go.

[Warren Lake]

I would not put the filter in upside down Id throw it away. Filter your material and the PPS has a filter in the lid anyway so its filtered twice. I have one accusrpay bought a long time ago, im no fan. The newer throw away air cap thing so where does that go landfill? Even the PPS when I mentioned it said thats alot of crap in land fills they said yeah and if I understood them right they are working on a new product maybe can be recycled. Cleaning gravity is fast and simple take the PPS off pour some reducer through into a container you reuse for other things and put your air cap and nozzle into a little jar with reducer and a lid. Either clean it then and blow it dry if you put it together wet some will stick. If i have goup in the very fine air holes ill use a maple tooth pick the round kind, they are very pointed and wont do damage using care. Dollar store has artist brushes that are white hair pretty firm bristle that work well on air caps.