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View Full Version : 25% Increase of Tariffs on Chinese Lasers?



Matt McCoy
04-03-2018, 8:08 PM
Anyone know if the additional 25% duty applies to imported Chinese machines? Here are the tariff lines that might be affected:

84561110 Machine tools operated by laser, for working metal

90132000 Lasers, other than laser diodes

Nick Hale
04-05-2018, 12:00 AM
This was my first thought with the tariffs.

Jeff Body
04-05-2018, 1:12 AM
Oh that's going to suck.
And I was planning on buying a new larger laser in 6-8 months

Tim Bateson
04-05-2018, 12:01 PM
No one wants to spend more money, but honestly, if you are any good at this business, you'll pay for that new machine in no time - even at a 25% cost increase.

Kev Williams
04-05-2018, 3:56 PM
I'm buying things I've been putting off NOW. 25% starts adding up...

Clark Pace
04-05-2018, 5:37 PM
Well perhaps at least not so many ebay lasers will be sold

Gary Hair
04-05-2018, 6:10 PM
No one wants to spend more money, but honestly, if you are any good at this business, you'll pay for that new machine in no time - even at a 25% cost increase.

What's 25% of the average Chinese machine? Maybe $1,000? That's a good days orders, even though it wouldn't be a welcome cost, it's a pittance in the big scheme.

Dave Sheldrake
04-06-2018, 8:00 AM
The people it will damage are US vendors of Chinese systems like Boss, Rabbit etc

I've just been offered 15% on top of my trade discount from China to "promote European business" by one of the big manufacturers

Michael Henriksen
04-06-2018, 9:25 AM
I've just been offered 15% on top of my trade discount from China to "promote European business" by one of the big manufacturers

I guess they are looking to expand business in Europe. I just received an agent request - possibly from the same vendor you did.

Mike Null
04-06-2018, 11:27 AM
The Chinese have ingeniously tapped the US hobby market and thousands of their units have been sold. The tariff might well affect that market but I agree with Tim's point.

Not time to panic yet! Nothing has been put in place as of today, so prices are unchanged.

Dave Sheldrake
04-07-2018, 5:45 PM
I guess they are looking to expand business in Europe. I just received an agent request - possibly from the same vendor you did.

Said the same as I did to every offer for the last 18 years...thanks but no thanks..I've got no interest what so ever in selling lasers :)

John Lifer
04-08-2018, 8:00 AM
deleted, too close to political :) I agree.

Matt McCoy
07-07-2018, 10:11 AM
Has anyone currently looking at Chinese machines, ancillary equipment, or supplies seen a price increase?

There are two other interesting threads on SMC regarding the tariffs (general power tools and Grizzley), if interested.

Jacob John
07-08-2018, 2:08 AM
No one wants to spend more money, but honestly, if you are any good at this business, you'll pay for that new machine in no time - even at a 25% cost increase.

Not all of us jack of all trades like you (sublimation, fiber, CO2, etc.) :D

John Lifer
07-09-2018, 4:04 PM
FYI,

Yes, all Chinese lasers WILL be under this tariff Link to the notice --- As of July 6th Customs will be slapping additional Duty on the items.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf

And the line for CO2 lasers
84561190..........Machine tools operated by laser, nesoi

And the line for Fiber lasers
84561110...........Machine tools operated by laser, for working metal

And there is another link of more (around 250) proposed lines. About 500 lines of products were initially eliminated from first list.

Jeff Watkins
07-09-2018, 4:51 PM
I'll let you all know in a few weeks. My Ray Fine was going for final customs clearance today and should be on a boat shortly.

Grrr...

Bill George
07-09-2018, 5:11 PM
I'll let you all know in a few weeks. My Ray Fine was going for final customs clearance today and should be on a boat shortly.

Grrr...

I find it interesting that some of those who commented about the tariff being nothing, already owned Chinese fiber lasers. ;)

Kev Williams
07-09-2018, 7:28 PM
Not me, I think it's * ridiculous to pay $5000 for a $4000 machine. Whether I'm any good at this business or not doesn't matter. To make that $1000 back will require either (a) more of my TIME that I'd rather spend doing something else, or (b) passing the cost onto my customers to let THEM pay for it. Either option helps no one, certainly not me.

Thankfully I don't need any more machines, and even if I do, I'm more than happy buying used equipment (only 5 engraving machines in my signature were bought new)...

Scott Shepherd
07-09-2018, 10:07 PM
Maybe you’ve been buying a $8,000 machine for $4,000 ;)

Matt McCoy
07-10-2018, 12:11 PM
I'll let you all know in a few weeks. My Ray Fine was going for final customs clearance today and should be on a boat shortly.

Grrr...

Thanks Jeff.

Floyd Siegal
07-11-2018, 12:04 PM
So far I haven't seen any duty increases for the machines we distribute. We just received 3 new systems but no increase in duty charges. 389491389492
I see "the additional duties set out in Annex A to this notice are effective withrespect to products that are entered for consumption, or withdrawn from warehouse forconsumption, on or after July 6, 2018". I can only assume our clearing date actually happened before this date. Clearly our next order should reflect an additional 25% tariff. We'll see what happens?

John Lifer
07-12-2018, 6:03 PM
These things are passing through US Customs at the port of embarkation first and if that occurred prior to July 6th, I'd expect no additional duty. Anything that leaves China after the 6th would be hit.

Jeff Watkins
07-20-2018, 3:24 AM
Just a quick update and side effect of the tariffs. My laser was supposed to have been in a boat almost two weeks ago yet this is the latest message from RayFine, "The machine is still in the customs, I have urged the freight forwarder many times every day, I will let you know if any updates."

I was told last week that due to the China and US tariffs that everything was being more closely inspected. I'm not sure why China Customs is doing more inspections since it's the US that is imposing the tariffs.

Anyone care to chime in on have more information?

Steve Middleton
07-21-2018, 7:20 AM
I just sent a check to Rabbit Lasers and they honored the quote I rec'd in March. Hope to see them in the next few weeks when new building is ready:) I moved in late October last year so was stuck inside ALL winter. What a bummer but this year will be better thank goodness!

Gabriel Holmes
08-16-2018, 11:39 PM
I can confirm the tariff and the pain it brings. My $7,330 30W fiber laser package was $1,120 to ship via DHL. It arrived August 3rd and is still sitting in customs. It just went through review with FDA. I get to pay an additional $2,206.01 now in duties.

For reference, a $5,000 30W fiber laser I had shipped earlier this year had duties of $237.

John Lifer
08-17-2018, 10:53 AM
OUCH! Oh well!

Trey Tull
08-17-2018, 1:28 PM
I have a 30w fiber that is scheduled to be in the US on the 31st. I'm not looking forward to the duties bill :-(

Scott Shepherd
08-17-2018, 2:41 PM
I know it's for informational purposes, but I have a hard time feeling too bad about it. I had a part I needed to get into China for repair under warranty. It was being sent as a repair. I wasn't selling anything. I was supplying a product I had already paid for and having it repaired at no cost and returned. I paid $450 to ship it one way, I put $2,000 on the shipping value in case in disappeared off the planet (that's the most DHL will let you file for), and when it got there, they told me we owed $800 in duties. I tried to explain it was valued to cover a loss if it was lost in shipping and I wasn't selling anything. Nope, not having any of that. Pay the $800 or have it returned. So $450 each way in shipping and they wanted $800 in duties to get it in the country.

$800 duties on a $2,000 value? That's pretty steep going that direction. I think we're getting off easy, even with the duties in place now.

Matt McCoy
08-20-2018, 11:40 AM
I know it's for informational purposes, but I have a hard time feeling too bad about it. I had a part I needed to get into China for repair under warranty. It was being sent as a repair. I wasn't selling anything. I was supplying a product I had already paid for and having it repaired at no cost and returned. I paid $450 to ship it one way, I put $2,000 on the shipping value in case in disappeared off the planet (that's the most DHL will let you file for), and when it got there, they told me we owed $800 in duties. I tried to explain it was valued to cover a loss if it was lost in shipping and I wasn't selling anything. Nope, not having any of that. Pay the $800 or have it returned. So $450 each way in shipping and they wanted $800 in duties to get it in the country.

$800 duties on a $2,000 value? That's pretty steep going that direction. I think we're getting off easy, even with the duties in place now.

Duty is calculated on the declared value + shipping, I believe. The importer pays the tariff, not the exporter. With the tariffs increased to 25% in addition to retaliatory Chinese tariffs, it's likely a substantial increase to what you describe as an already steep cost. I don't know that I would agree that anyone is getting off easy.

Has anyone noticed increased prices for engraving supplies from awards/engraving suppliers? Most, if not all of those are imported from China as well.

Doug Fisher
08-20-2018, 12:31 PM
This is a general comment, not a reply to any one specific comment in this thread, but it amazes me how many people believe the tariffs assessed on Chinese goods are to be paid by the Chinese.

Scott Shepherd
08-20-2018, 2:34 PM
Duty is calculated on the declared value + shipping, I believe. The importer pays the tariff, not the exporter. With the tariffs increased to 25% in addition to retaliatory Chinese tariffs, it's likely a substantial increase to what you describe as an already steep cost. I don't know that I would agree that anyone is getting off easy.

Has anyone noticed increased prices for engraving supplies from awards/engraving suppliers? Most, if not all of those are imported from China as well.

There is no declared value in sending an item back to be serviced under warranty. But even at that, they were charging us a 40% tax to get product into China from the USA. That's steeper than the 25% that's being added onto orders from China now. So 25% to get things here, 40% to get things into their country.

I was selling anything into their country. I was having an item that I already paid duties on repaired. Had I put a value of zero on the package, then, if lost, I would have gotten zero from the insurance.

Trey Tull
08-20-2018, 4:40 PM
There is no declared value in sending an item back to be serviced under warranty. But even at that, they were charging us a 40% tax to get product into China from the USA. That's steeper than the 25% that's being added onto orders from China now. So 25% to get things here, 40% to get things into their country.

I was selling anything into their country. I was having an item that I already paid duties on repaired. Had I put a value of zero on the package, then, if lost, I would have gotten zero from the insurance.


So the tariff is based on the declared value plus shipping? Why is shipping included in this? If this is the case, what are shipping costs, roughly, for a 30w fiber?

John Noell
08-20-2018, 5:30 PM
Here in Fiji, we pay duty (5-32%) and VAT (9%, figured on top of the duty) on the "value plus shipping". (We supposedly only pay duty and VAT on 75% of the shipping if it is invoiced separately, which is rare anyway.) When Epilog sent me a bad tube (via FedEx of course), which they replaced for free I had to pay duty and VAT on it (plus shipping) twice.

Matt McCoy
08-21-2018, 11:54 AM
There is no declared value in sending an item back to be serviced under warranty. But even at that, they were charging us a 40% tax to get product into China from the USA. That's steeper than the 25% that's being added onto orders from China now. So 25% to get things here, 40% to get things into their country.

I was selling anything into their country. I was having an item that I already paid duties on repaired. Had I put a value of zero on the package, then, if lost, I would have gotten zero from the insurance.

The carrier will require a declared value for the waybill, which you claimed $2K. The importer (i.e., manufacturer) typically pays the duty imposed by Customs, however it sounds like they expected you to pay it. Declared value, shipping, and any VAT are combined to calculate the tax, so you it wouldn't be a 40% Chinese tariff, it would be less. There is a U.S. CBP form that has to be attached and returned with the repaired part, where you would only be taxed on the cost of the service when bringing it back into the U.S.

What China imposes on imported goods is mostly irrelevant, unless you are an exporter. However, U.S. importers of most Chinese goods are now being taxed at 25% and that is passed on to the end user.

Floyd Siegal
08-22-2018, 11:07 AM
I received 2 20W laser systems and 1 60W system on Monday from our manufacturer in China. Still no tariff! I've seen these laser come in as 8456.11.9000 and 8467.29.0090 (and one other I can't recall) of the tariff schedule.
I have more machines coming so I'll post something if anything changes.

Ross Moshinsky
09-26-2018, 8:10 AM
1. Incentivize American production. If a Chinese product costs $20 and it costs $3 to ship it and then there is a 25% tax on it of $5, the idea is that the US could potentially produce that item for close to the $28 mark. I'm sure in some industries this may be the case, but it's very questionable how widely this can be applied. Generally speaking, although Americans claim they want mfg jobs back, mfg jobs have been largely employed by 1st generation Americans or immigrants. People seem to want to go back to the 70's where you got a mfg job with a pension and could retire at 55 and that simply isn't happening.

2. Attached to part 2, pull back from buying as much Chinese goods which forces China to renegotiate trade agreements. For me, this is relatively counter intuitive. China has no real incentive to do anything about this because if it makes more sense to produce in the US, we'll do it. Most of the demands of China are going to increase their goods cost which just benefits the potential idea of US going back to an industrial nation. I imagine China will be willing to make some concessions, but ultimately they know they have a ton of leverage and they know the cost of rebuilding the infrastructure to get back into mfg. They've spent several billion dollars building their infrastructure up over the last 30 years.

3. China starts improving their products again. China has become more consistent and established with the mfg process but a lot of the stuff we get from China is still considered inferior. Look at a CO2 laser. A Chinese machine simply isn't as good as a Western one on most levels, except for price. So as the gap in price shrinks, the incentive to buy Chinese shrinks. So what China will be theoretically forced to do is improve their machines. Simply building the machine to engrave at 50ipm vs 20imp would close the performance gap pretty significantly. This will be very market dependent. Some markets China knows that they're filling in the low end spectrum and it's very hard to make headway in the other sectors.

Overall, I don't expect this to go anywhere in the near future. It's a hidden tax. It will help make up for the tax plan passed not so long ago.

John Lifer
09-26-2018, 8:42 AM
I think it will be relatively short term, but will run into next year for sure. I think that it will soon be felt elsewhere, Steel imports are being hit hard. Price increases have already been announced by JDS on sheet goods, and I'd bet the SS items will soon go up. I'll not go further as it goes to political for this forum.