Dado, rabbits and tenons question. How do you cut them?

[Marshall Harrison]

I'm curious how many of you use a dado blade with chippers to cut dados/rabbits/tennons.

Or do you normally cut the edges and then nibble away at it.

Trying to decide if its worth it to get a dado set or just take the cheap way out and nibble away.

[John TenEyck]

A dado set is about the fastest way to plow dados and rabbets, and I use mine for that purpose frequently. Truly flat bottomed dado sets are good for making finger joints, too, and I've used mine for that task as well with a shop made jig. I've cut tenons with mine, too, but typically only do that with really large tenons; for normal sized ones used in most furniture applications I use loose tenon joinery because it's faster, easier, and more precise with the equipment I have.

The dado blade is not always the best choice, however. For example, sometimes it will chip out the corner of a rabbet cut. If that corner will be visible I will usually use a handheld router and make a climb cut, which almost never gives any chip out. Crosscuts in veneer plywood is another case where a dado blade may not be the best choice. Again, I will typically use a handheld router to make those.

I suppose I could get by w/o a dado set, but I'm happy I have one and use it frequently.

John

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, dados I cut on the table saw using a dado set.

For tenons I cut them on the shaper using a reversible cutter that either cuts both sides of the tenon in one pass, or the groove using the same cutter in grooving mode, or the dado cutter.

Rebates I cut on the shaper..................Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

I don't cut them in any one specific way...it depends upon the project.

[Von Bickley]

I don't cut them in any one specific way...it depends upon the project.

That works for me. Sometimes I use the dado blades, sometimes I nibble away, sometimes I use a router. Depends on the project, but I do like having a dado set.

I bought a small PC portable saw just to leave the dado blades on all the time.

[glenn bradley]

Like Jim and Von, I use a dado stack, a rabbet bit in the router table, a straight bit or a rabbet bit in the hand held router, depends on what I am doing. For larger cuts I lean toward the tablesaw and a stack if the piece I am cutting is well milled. for things like plywood the tablesaw can yield inconsistent results due to irregularities in the sheet. For these I go with a hand held router as the small router base better follows the anomalies of the plywood's surface. For solid wood stock or smaller pieces of sheet goods I again use the tablesaw for large material removal and the router table for smaller work. The decision can also be weighted as to whether the joinery will be on display of not. A dado in a piece of ply that will be hidden by a shelf can be less refined than a dado used as a decorative element.

[Lee Schierer]

I don't cut them in any one specific way...it depends upon the project.

I do the same as Jim, Although for tenons and lap joints, I use a cross cut blade for the shoulder cut and then the tenon jig to remove the waste. If I only have one or two to cut and precision isn't paramount, I may nibble one with a crosscut blade on the TS.

[Ron Citerone]

I suppose the answer is how much you are going to use it. For occasional use it may not be worth it, but is does save time in many instances. The decision for me would be based on what might you use the money on instead. I cut tenons on 4 door rails yesterday by nibbling. If it was any more I would have used a dado head for sure.

[Mike Cutler]

Marshall

Yes, a dado stack should be part of your table saw blade collection.
A flat top grind set will leave a perfect bottom. An alternating bevel grind leaves little "ears" at the corners of the bottom. I prefer the flat bottoms, they look better.
Like Rod, I cut tenons, and rabbetts, on a shaper. They can be cut with a dado stack also on the table saw. I don't see the advantage, maybe speed/time, to cutting rabbets with a dado. They're pretty ease with just a blade. Even easier with a shaper.

[Marshall Harrison]

Thanks. I've spent enough money on a table saw in the last few days so I was hoping to avoid a dado blade for a little while. I'll most likely be using the nibble method and a router for any of these types of cuts.

However, if someone wants to donate a dado stack I'm okay with that. LOL

[Jim Becker]

Thanks. I've spent enough money on a table saw in the last few days so I was hoping to avoid a dado blade for a little while. I'll most likely be using the nibble method and a router for any of these types of cuts.

However, if someone wants to donate a dado stack I'm okay with that. LOL

Marshall, I've been working without a dado stack for a number of years now and only recently did I scarf a nice, hardly-used one here in the SMC classifieds from another 'Creeker. You see, when I bought my slider, I decided to sell my very nice Forest Dado King because I "believed" I wouldn't need it. That mostly held true, but there have been a few times that having a stack would have been nice, especially because my particular sliding table saw will support one. The moral to the story is, don't rush and spend money to spend money, but be ready to take advantage of a good deal on a dado stack when you can because you will use it. Nibbling is just fine in the mean time...it just means a little more cleanup before assembly.

[Marshall Harrison]

Thanks for the advice Jim.

[Dave Cav]

You can get or make a tenon jig that will let you cut your tenons with the stock held vertically to cut the tenon cheeks, then flat with the miter gauge to cut the shoulders. You can do this with a regular blade or a dado stack. If you use a dado stack you probably won't need to cut the shoulders unless you need to clean them up. That being said, a good dado stack has a lot of uses and should be on your short list of thing to get for your new table saw. Somehow I have ended up with three dado sets, a relatively inexpensive 8" Freud for rough or utility work, a nicer full plate 8" set for fine work and a 10" Amana 1" hole set to use on the 12/14 table saw. I also have a very scary Sears wobble dado I don't use any more, and there is probably at least one steel dado set in the back of the cabinet somewhere.

Years ago I used to cut all of my tenons and lap joints on the RAS with a dado blade.

If you have a bandsaw and it's reasonably well tuned up you can cut the cheeks and shoulders with it, too.

I use a vintage old iron Millbury tenoner to cut my tenons, at least most of the time. If I'm only doing one or two I'll usually use the big band saw.

[Phillip Gregory]

I use a stack dado blade with chippers on my radial arm saw to cut dados. I use the RAS with a stack dado or my shaper with a grooving cutter to cut grooves. Which tool I use depends on the size of the groove, the size of the piece of stock, and the distance of the groove from the edge of the piece of stock. If it's narrow, I use the shaper and if it's a relatively wide piece I use the RAS. I have used my cabinet saw and a stack dado but it's much less handy than the RAS and leaves a lower-quality finish than the shaper.

Rabbets get cut on the shaper with a straight cutter as the finish quality is much better than using a dado set. You can accomplish the same thing on your jointer if it has a rabbeting ledge and that is how I would recommend somebody without a shaper do their rabbets.

Tenons get cut on the shaper with a pair of straight cutters and a set of spacers. You only have to register off one face of the stock and the tenon thickness is exact and set by the spacer, so your joinery will be better than the flip-and-cut dado method. If you are really ambitious, you can replace the spacer with a smaller diameter cutter and trim the length of your tenon at the same time you cut the cheeks.

One thing I do recommend is to get a GOOD dado set. I have a cheap BORG one for my cabinet saw and it's pretty much only good for rough carpentry half laps and such, the finish is poor. I got a 12" Freud Super Dado set for my RAS (16" DeWalt) and it is excellent...and cost about 6 times as much as the BORG 8" cheapie for the cabinet saw. It cuts about 10 times better so it's a bargain.

[Gavin Wellman]

+1 with Phillip. I use my RAS with a dado stack for tenons and some rabbets. I also use a rabbeting bit in the router table, on occasion, but I have multiple radial arm saws so i leave one set with a dado stack at all times. Just a matter of efficiency for me in not changing machine setups.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I have a Dado stack for my TS and don't use it very often. Just couldn't be bothered taking the time (not a lot mind you) to fit it. It does work well for dado's and rabbets. I actually cut more rabbets with Veritas Skew Rebate planes tbh. Slower at times but far more enjoyable. I have also taken to cutting dados with a wooden dado plane - again more enjoyable.

Tenons, when I'm making a batch, I will use a regular TS crosscut blade to cut the shoulder and then bandsaw to cut the cheeks. On the topic of tenons on a TS, how do people who use table saw tenon jigs control dust? Without the ability to run an overhead dust port I imagine it would be crazy dusty!

So basically I don't use the dado stack much but wouldn't sell it either.

Cheers, Dom

[Nick Decker]

I think the answer to your last question is that a dust mask and broom are your friends.

Even if you have overarm dust collection, it would get in the way with vertical stock in a tenon jig.

[Mike Cutler]

Tenons, when I'm making a batch, I will use a regular TS crosscut blade to cut the shoulder and then bandsaw to cut the cheeks. On the topic of tenons on a TS, how do people who use table saw tenon jigs control dust? Without the ability to run an overhead dust port I imagine it would be crazy dusty!
Dom

Yeah, you're going to get some dust and debris. It's not crazy dusty though.
I'll put the overhead pickup to the side, but it still won't get it all, so I have a dust mask on. Same with the band saw.
Not to be glib, or downplay the importance of dust collection, but you're trying to cut a tenon first, not collect dust.

[Rod Sheridan]

On the topic of tenons on a TS, how do people who use table saw tenon jigs control dust? Without the ability to run an overhead dust port I imagine it would be crazy dusty!

So basically I don't use the dado stack much but wouldn't sell it either.

Cheers, Dom

Hi Dominik, you've hit on one of the 2 issues I couldn't solve.

1) Dust collection was impossible.

2) Safety, exposed blade, I couldn't come up with a suitable guard. If you tried cutting a tenon at work with the exposed blade, you would get a reprimand ans retraining or be fired.

I switched to the table saw/ band saw and then switched to the band saw completely. Later I switched to the shaper.

The shaper is my favourite method as I have a sliding table, and the shaper cuts both faces simultaneously. It also has the correct guards for cutting tenons, the cutter is completely blocked off when you're placing or removing the stock from the table.

Regards, Rod.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Yeah, you're going to get some dust and debris. It's not crazy dusty though.
I'll put the overhead pickup to the side, but it still won't get it all, so I have a dust mask on. Same with the band saw.
Not to be glib, or downplay the importance of dust collection, but you're trying to cut a tenon first, not collect dust.

Hi Mike, agreed that cutting tenons is the first priority, but there are many options to cut them where dust can be controlled. I just don't use processes that are dusty - there are always other options. In this case a hand saw, bandsaw, or even dado stack or router/shaper.

This is the same reason I don't do box joints on a table saw - too hard to have overhead dust collection.

Cheers, Dom

[Phillip Gregory]

Hi Dominik, you've hit on one of the 2 issues I couldn't solve.

1) Dust collection was impossible.

Yes. You can't use a guard with a tenoning jig. Your fingers are safe as they are well away from the blade, but any time there is an unguarded tablesaw blade, it shoots a lot of dust back at the operator.


2) Safety, exposed blade, I couldn't come up with a suitable guard. If you tried cutting a tenon at work with the exposed blade, you would get a reprimand ans retraining or be fired.

The tenoning jig and stock protect your hand as you are pushing on the jig's handle well away from the blade. You'd have to be doing something very stupid to touch the blade. The legally safest way to cut anything is to have it cut 10,000 miles away in a country with no OSHA and have the finished product shipped here.


I switched to the table saw/ band saw and then switched to the band saw completely. Later I switched to the shaper.

I have cut tenons on all three and also prefer the shaper. The bandsaw is quick, quiet, has a minimal amount of dust production, and is very safe but leaves a very rough finish to the tenons. The shaper is louder but quicker, about as safe (my hands are about 18" away from the cutter), and dust collection is very good.


The shaper is my favourite method as I have a sliding table, and the shaper cuts both faces simultaneously. It also has the correct guards for cutting tenons, the cutter is completely blocked off when you're placing or removing the stock from the table.

Regards, Rod.

I made a simple sled and its runner rides along the edge of the table as my shaper considerably pre-dates sliding tables. My shop-made fences and featherboards guard all of the cutterheads when I am making the cut and much of it when I am not. You'd have to try to hurt yourself.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I have cut tenons on all three and also prefer the shaper. The bandsaw is quick, quiet, has a minimal amount of dust production, and is very safe but leaves a very rough finish to the tenons.
.

I guess that depends on the bandsaw/ setup. I find the tenons off a bandsaw are more than smooth enough for glue up straight off the saw. Here are some I cut very recently - 383427

And with some dust port mods zero dust. 383427

Cheers, Dom

[Rod Sheridan]

The tenoning jig and stock protect your hand as you are pushing on the jig's handle well away from the blade. You'd have to be doing something very stupid to touch the blade. The legally safest way to cut anything is to have it cut 10,000 miles away in a country with no OSHA and have the finished product shipped here. .

Hi Phillip, your "You'd have to be doing something very stupid to touch the blade" quote, is probably only second to "Here, hold my beer, watch this" in accident reports.

Of course you'd have to do something stupid to touch the blade, as touching the blade is something stupid. There's a good reason for safety regulations and guards............Rod.

[Jim Becker]

I guess that depends on the bandsaw/ setup. I find the tenons off a bandsaw are more than smooth enough for glue up straight off the saw. Here are some I cut very recen
The reality is that the tenon surfaces are actually likely better for glue-up straight off the bandsaw. :) As long as the shoulders are cut clean (they are the only visible place that the workpiece shows at the tenon end), the "beautiful" of the actual tenon is moot. It merely needs to fit the mortise with just enough snugness to provide an accurate joint while allowing for the glue.

[Phillip Gregory]

Every time something "idiot-proof" is developed, they just make a better idiot.

But we're not idiots here, right?

[Bill Adamsen]

... bandsaw ... dust port mods zero dust. Cheers, Dom

Thanks for showing those DC mods Dominik. I am assuming you are cutting the shoulders on something other than the bandsaw?

I too cut some tenons on the bandsaw, and in that case typically the shoulder on the tablesaw. Bandsaw cut tenons are a little more finicky (thickness sensitive) than the shaper since they are face gauged. If cutting the tenon on the shaper I almost always cut the tenon height on the bandsaw. In fact, for that operation I'll use two bandsaws, once for the rip and one for the crosscut. But I always expect to cut the haunch with a chisel. How do other folks handle that last cut?

[michael langman]

I bought a nice carbide dado stack from CRIPE distributing for 20.00. Works well.
I have no affiliation with Cripe.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for showing those DC mods Dominik. I am assuming you are cutting the shoulders on something other than the bandsaw?

I too cut some tenons on the bandsaw, and in that case typically the shoulder on the tablesaw. Bandsaw cut tenons are a little more finicky (thickness sensitive) than the shaper since they are face gauged. If cutting the tenon on the shaper I almost always cut the tenon height on the bandsaw. In fact, for that operation I'll use two bandsaws, once for the rip and one for the crosscut. But I always expect to cut the haunch with a chisel. How do other folks handle that last cut?

Hi Bill, if I'm making them on the band saw I make all the cuts on the band saw.

If I'm using the shaper I make all the cuts on the shaper.

Here are some poorly focused shots of a bridle joint made on a band saw........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Every time something "idiot-proof" is developed, they just make a better idiot.

But we're not idiots here, right?

Most of the time we're not, however like all humans, occasionally we are.

Guards really reduce the risk of change from idiot, to idiot with missing fingers:D...........Regards, Rod.

[Bill Adamsen]

If I'm using the shaper I make all the cuts on the shaper........Rod.
No question, for a perfectly sized tenon (bridle joint or tenon) the shaper is the initial tool. Perfect for matching slots too.

I can see doing the bridle on the shaper for both cuts, once pass each and you're done. That's the beauty of the bridle.

But it is the tenon with haunches that requires that second set of cuts. Guess it can be done by using the tenon head set as a rabbet. I don't usually opt for that, don't know why. On the TS one can roll the stock and use the same stop. The challenge I've had cutting the end shoulder on the TS can be seen in the first photo. So I typically put a piece of tape on the end stop and simply expect to trim down (pare) by hand. Then set the mortise to the size of the tenon. If it is a true haunched tenon with a stub mortise I would likely cut it by hand, or use the bandsaw and carefully set both cuts.

Loved the 2014 Lee Valley cover shot which showed a wide variety of possible tenons.

[Mike Cutler]

Dominik

That is some DC setup on the band saw. Wow!
I'm going to copy your overhead design. That looks pretty slick!
Right now I have DC going to the OEM ports and will bungee cord a pickup, and flexible pipe, to the table as close as I can get to the blade and material.

[Rod Sheridan]

No question, for a perfectly sized tenon (bridle joint or tenon) the shaper is the initial tool. Perfect for matching slots too.

I can see doing the bridle on the shaper for both cuts, once pass each and you're done. That's the beauty of the bridle.

. On the TS one can roll the stock and use the same stop.

Loved the 2014 Lee Valley cover shot which showed a wide variety of possible tenons.

I loved that cover as well.

On the shaper I use the same stop. I use the shaper fence as the stop for the first tenon, then flip it and use the crosscut fence stop for the second tenon, registered on the shoulder of the first tenon. That way if my parts are different lengths I get identical distances between the tenon shoulders........Rod.

[Brian Holcombe]

Rabbits are usually handled with birdshot. Dados with a router table, tenons with a bandsaw and tuned up with a router table.

[Phillip Gregory]

Rabbits are usually handled with birdshot. Dados with a router table, tenons with a bandsaw and tuned up with a router table.

Birdshot renders a rabbit instantly both inedible and dead if the shooter is a decent shot. Rabbits aren't too smart and will sit there and look at you if you are 10 yards away or more and stay still for a second. That lets you squint down the rib of your shotgun and hit the rabbit with the dead center of your pattern which has hundreds of pellets. I prefer to use a .44 revolver with lead bullet cowboy action type loads as they work much better than a .22 rimfire but don't have the "tearout" you have when you whack one with a shotgun. It's also far more sporting and much quieter than touching off a shotgun. Any non-magnum handgun load would work well, most of the .32s, .380, 9 mm, .38 Special, .40 Smith, .45 Colt.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Dominik

That is some DC setup on the band saw. Wow!
I'm going to copy your overhead design. That looks pretty slick!
Right now I have DC going to the OEM ports and will bungee cord a pickup, and flexible pipe, to the table as close as I can get to the blade and material.

Thanks Mike.

Yeah it works well. For higher cuts above about 8" I will likely make a longer adjustable overhead port.

383523

383524

The current overhead port moves up and down with the blade guard and also has about 4" of adjustment itself. Works perfectly for cuts about 5" or less; leaving basically no dust at all. Above that I can get some dust/chips on the table. A clearvue with 16" CVMax impeller does the grunt work. The cabinet is clear of any dust buildup after the last 12-18months of use.

Edit- those photos are after ripping a bunch of boards about 4-5" high from memory.

Cheers, Dom

[Brian Holcombe]

Birdshot renders a rabbit instantly both inedible and dead if the shooter is a decent shot. Rabbits aren't too smart and will sit there and look at you if you are 10 yards away or more and stay still for a second. That lets you squint down the rib of your shotgun and hit the rabbit with the dead center of your pattern which has hundreds of pellets. I prefer to use a .44 revolver with lead bullet cowboy action type loads as they work much better than a .22 rimfire but don't have the "tearout" you have when you whack one with a shotgun. It's also far more sporting and much quieter than touching off a shotgun. Any non-magnum handgun load would work well, most of the .32s, .380, 9 mm, .38 Special, .40 Smith, .45 Colt.

Hehe, I knew that line would cause trouble ’ :D

[Marshall Harrison]

Wow it took all the way to post #33 for someone to comment on the misspelling. You guys re getting slack.

[Phillip Gregory]

Wow it took all the way to post #33 for someone to comment on the misspelling. You guys re getting slack.

You guys *are* getting slack :D