vise question - leg vs. twin screw

[Bob Cooper]

i apologize if this has been asked a ton but maybe the unconventional design of my bench will influence the answer. Below is a picture of a bench i'm building and i need to settle on the two vices i'm going to install. RIght now i'm thinking i'll put a twin screw face vice and a cheaper standard quick release vice on the end. This bench will be pressed up against a wall and so i do not think a twin screw on the end makes any sense.

Originally i'd planned on putting a leg vice on the left front leg but the more i thought about it the more practical i think a twin screw vice would be.

Not sure if one way or the other is a slam dunk (twin screw vs leg) for that face vice but i figured before i spend the 200-300 i'd ask the group for anything thoughts.

Bob C

[Jim Koepke]

A single screw vise made of wood for wood will rack. There are ways to counter this and in my experience there are ways to use it at an advantage.

A twin screw vise is one way of countering racking. It can also allow for a good grip on a wide board when dovetailing or jointing.

A twin screw without a connection between the two screws may be inconvenient since one has to turn both screws. It will allow one to hold a tapered piece such as a leg.

What should determine which type of vise best suits your work is the work. Lots of dovetailed case work might be better handled with a twin screw vise.

Small boxes and carving can likely be well handled by a leg vise.

jtk

[Joe A Faulkner]

I'll agree that the answer isn't a slam dunk. It's really a matter of personal preference. What's your objective in having a vise on the end of the bench? If it is to give you the option of using it as a tail vise, then the twin screw is nice if you want two rows of dog holes on your bench and want to apply clamping pressure from either side. If you only want one row of dog holes and clamping pressure from one end of your bench, then a standard face vise is all you need; not even sure you need a QR.

This supposes that workholding for dovetailing will be done using your face vise. A twin screw is a good choice for this and works well for other applications, but you do have two screw heads extending from the front of your bench instead of one.

The twin screw handles sit higher than a leg vise handle, and assuming you go with a traditional leg vise design, the leg vise requires the moving of the pin in the keyholes in the spreader bar. Depending on your age and general back health the extra manipulation and stooping required to use a leg vise might be enough of a con to push you towards a different face vice option. I've heard from a couple of folks who got tired of their leg vises and replaced them with a twin screw. Can't say that I recall hearing of anyone going the other direction. Both are very nice vises. Both look good and work well. Full disclosure, I have a leg vise as a face vise and a twin screw on the tail and my bench is against the wall. I love my bench and like my vises, but if I build a second bench, I'll probably go with a twin screw face vise.

[Bob Cooper]

Thanks guys...if i were to do the leg vice i'd buy the scissor benchcraft model so bending over, etc. is not an issue. I think putting the twin screw on the end won't work because the bench rests against the wall and so there'd be no clearance if i went w/the model that actually has 2 handles (lee valley vs. LN).

Type of work? i have really just starting working with any kind of hand tools. All my work to date has been building cabinets <-- all out of necessity. But i would like to build some stand alone cabinetry for the house, dovetail drawers, etc.

[bridger berdel]

I think I'd say don't get hung up about building the ultimate bench. make yourself a simple sturdy bench that can have vises added to it later as needed. get a couple of holdfasts and make holes for them where you'll want dog holes later for the vises. if you're thinking large panels held transverse on the bench with a tail vise a twin screw could be a nice way to go- just get a single handle model so it doesn't hit the wall. or just go with a wagon vise or some bench pup screw equipped dogs. you'll probably use the front vise most of the time, so pick one that meets your needs best there.

one advantage to building quick, sturdy and cheap is that as you figure out how you want to work you can modify to suit as needed, then when you get it there you'll know what to build for the next bench. if you invest thousands of dollars and hours now in a bench it's harder to justify hacking it for function down the road. get a bench up and running with minimal investment so you can find out what you need in a bench.

[Jim Koepke]

But i would like to build some stand alone cabinetry for the house, dovetail drawers, etc.

When jointing a long piece it is often required, at least on my bench, to support the end of the board away from the vise. A twin screw vise would likely do a lot to resolve this problem. With a leg vise many solve this with the use of a 'sliding dead man' support.

jtk

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
Make sure you think about screw clearance in the case of the twin screw vise. In other words, be sure there is no conflict between the top base rail after considering your bench top thickness and jaw height. I think its important that the screws be located in the vertical center of the jaw, or maybe slightly higher, but definitely not below center.
Edwin

[Grant Aldridge]

I will be building a hand tool bench soon and have decided on a leg vise and a wagon vise. In case you haven't considered a wagon I think you should. You could make one cheaply or get a nice unit ready to go

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I had the same dilemma- and so I got both! It really does depend on what you are going to be doing the most. Have you thougt about a leg vise AND a sliding deadman? This gives you the advantages of a twin screw (wider clamping) but without the limitations (twin screw is sometimes limited by the gap between the two screws). I would consider that option. For me personally, if I only could have one vise, it would probably be the leg vise with a sliding deadman. (Does that count as one?) I need to clamp long boards for jointing the edges. I buy my stock in 14' lengths, and I like to joint the edges first, then dimension. The leg vise with deadman allows for this. Often my stock is as wide as 24", and the leg vise also allows for a deeper depth.

[Andrew Seemann]

I would probably be lost without something to function as a tail vise on my bench, whether it was an actual tail vise, a wagon vise, screw vise, or regular woodworking vise with a dog. Clamping boards and panels longways on the bench between dogs is the most common operation on my bench for both hand tools and power tools. After that, using the shoulder vise or an equivalent with a sliding and adjustable deadman is the next most common.

Full disclosure, I have a Scandinavian bench with both tail and shoulder vises that I wouldn't willingly trade for anything, but if I did have to work on a different style of bench, I still would want to be able to hold work longways between dogs for planing and be able to conveniently hold boards for edge jointing. Being able to hold work for sawing dovetails would be handy too.

[Jason Lester]

I did a leg vise on my Roubo and honestly don't care for it. I wish I had done the twin screw instead. I use the end vise much more often.

[ken hatch]

I think I'd say don't get hung up about building the ultimate bench. make yourself a simple sturdy bench that can have vises added to it later as needed. get a couple of holdfasts and make holes for them where you'll want dog holes later for the vises. if you're thinking large panels held transverse on the bench with a tail vise a twin screw could be a nice way to go- just get a single handle model so it doesn't hit the wall. or just go with a wagon vise or some bench pup screw equipped dogs. you'll probably use the front vise most of the time, so pick one that meets your needs best there.

one advantage to building quick, sturdy and cheap is that as you figure out how you want to work you can modify to suit as needed, then when you get it there you'll know what to build for the next bench. if you invest thousands of dollars and hours now in a bench it's harder to justify hacking it for function down the road. get a bench up and running with minimal investment so you can find out what you need in a bench.

Bob,

The above is the best advice so far. Figure out how you work first by building a very simple bench, cheaply, quickly, sturdy, and heavy. If you must have a vise put a metal QR either on the left or right front (per your handiness) and go to work making things. The reason for the metal QR, they are cheap, easy and quick to instal plus they work as well as any in general use. In short order you will figure out what is needed for the way you work. BTW, leg vises are in fashion as are wagon vises, fashion changes, the work may evolve but how it is done usually doesn't.

After the third or fourth bench build, if you are lucky and have paid attention, you may end up with the perfect bench for your use.

ken

[Prashun Patel]

It depends imho what you make most of the time. I find a twin screw more appropriate for dovetailing.

The leg vise is good for holding things on edge and imho holding things at odd positions for carving or shaping. I am Thinking particularly about shaping chair legs. Not planing. Shaping.

I also find that the need for a lower guide on a leg vise is not necessary. Mine works with a set of shims on the floor. This style of vise can handle a good deal of vertical racking without sacrificing practical holding power. I have my shims set at about 1” and can hold things change thinner and thicker.

The lower handle on the leg vise can get fatiguing.

[Derek Cohen]

Bob, when I built my current bench about 6 years ago, I went for a leg vise and a wagon tail vise. Prior to this I have a Record 52 1/2 as a face vise. I had originally thought of the Veritas twin screw as a face vise (as it is excellent), but my thinking changed radically as a result of building a Moxon vise for dovetailing ...

There are three main areas in my book for holding work: to joint an edge, to plane a face, and to hold work for details, such as rebating and dovetailing.

Previously I had considered the twin screw as a way for dovetailing and holding work for edge jointing. When the Moxon came along, it did a better job of holding work high for dovetailing. It then made me recognise that the leg vise would be faster to set up and easier to adjust to hold boards for edge jointing.

The end vise is a wonderful tool that I use often, sometimes to clamp panels of boards for face planing, and sometime to hold fixtures, such as a shooting board or sticking board for planing rebates or mouldings. It is possible to get away with a Doe's Foot in place of an end vise, but it is better to have both.

https://s19.postimg.org/3uingsfwz/6a-_bench.jpg

Regards from Auckland

Derek

[Bob Cooper]

I had the same dilemma-... Have you thougt about a leg vise AND a sliding deadman? .

yes...the sliding deadman will be there. So the bench is modeled after Chris S's but the left side has a connected table (lower) and i'm leaning toward a twin screw for a face vice. The design has changed a little in that the top won't be totally flush on the left sides...it'll hang over 1/2" or so. Also this picture is showing cutouts for the leg vice but i'm 90% sure i'm changing that...that's the purpose of this post.

[Bob Cooper]

thanks all for the input and like all of you i know this won't be the final bench i build. On the topic of 'build something quick and get to work'...that makes total sense but i'm going down this path due for a few reasons. (1) the wood is "free"...i harvested it all off my property and it's been drying for the past 5 years. I have enough oak and beech to make 3 of these guys if i needed to (2) the top is a left over boos brother top that was replaced when the one in my kitchen checked so bad that Boos B replaced it for free...so my wife has been bugging me to it out of the basement. (3) i'm treating this project as a skill building project. This has been my first experience in M&T jointery, chisel work, sketchup, sharpening, etc... etc so it's been a great learning experience. So it's a good excuse to start working with hand tools.

I started thinking about the kind of hand tool work i'd need to do right now and one example is a finished drawer box that fits tight...so i need to plane some off the side. That led me to ask "how would i hold this on my new bench" and i had a hard time imagining how to do this w/a leg vise and a wagon vise. So that led me to see the twin-screw as likely more usable.

[Jim Koepke]

I started thinking about the kind of hand tool work i'd need to do right now and one example is a finished drawer box that fits tight...so i need to plane some off the side. That led me to ask "how would i hold this on my new bench" and i had a hard time imagining how to do this w/a leg vise and a wagon vise. So that led me to see the twin-screw as likely more usable.

That is one reason for having the top overhang some past the legs. Of course there are ways of attaching an "overhang" on the side of the bench with a thick board and a couple of holdfasts.

jtk