question re: purchasing equipment online

[Russ Ambrose]

in the past, i purchased equipment from the local Woodcraft store (or found it used). they were knowledgeable, delivered for free, and had great customer service. ownership recently changed, however, and these things are no longer true. i am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new band saw and am considering buying from an online retailer (acme tool). i'll save some $$$, but i'm concerned about whose cage i have to rattle (and where it might be located) in the event i run into a problem with the equipment and/or delivery.

am i inventing a potential problem where one doesn't/shouldn't exist or does purchasing from an online retailer (who may be located several hundred miles away) something to approach with caution? anybody have any insights about purchasing online in general and/or acme tool (or any other retailer) specifically?

thanks for any thoughts or insights you can offer. just want to make sure i don't do something stupid and end of wasting a bunch of cash.

[Cary Falk]

The majority of my current equipment is from Grizzly. I have a few pieces of equipment from CL. I have a few pieces I bought through Woodcraft. In the end you have to go through the company for warranty issues so I don't have any issues buying online.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Except for my scroll saw, 2 air cleaners, drill press and table saw, all of my tools were bought online. The few times I have had issues during the warranty period, the companies involved have been very responsive and often a pleasure with whom to work. I have no issues buying online.

[Jim Becker]

Everything in my shop outside of my drill press when it comes to stationary tools was ordered from a non-local vendor. That wasn't true early on because there were multiple local woodworking stores to select from, especially for the level of equipment I was buying at the time. All those stores are gone. Once I moved to Euro type gear, the only option was to order and have it shipped (or order and pickup from a show, which I did for two of my three core machines) I just ordered a USA-made CNC machine and it will be shipped from Georgia on a big truck, transferred to a roll-back and then deposited in front of my shop doors. I have no qualms about ordering what I want from whatever the best place to acquire it from is.

[Herb Smith]

Almost always purchase online. Can recommend WoodWerks (Columbus, Ohio), who can provide knowledgeable assistance and great service.

[glenn bradley]

I'm sorry your local brick and morter store has decided to cut its own throat. So many do. I try to buy locally whenever I can; even paying a bit more to support my community. That being said, all my large machines were bought online. On the left coast I have never suffered from the shipper's gorilla-handling the merchandise. I do pay for lift gate service and they have always dropped the pallets right in my shop and refused a tip. I do read horror stories in other parts of the country. If other things you have ordered online have shown up in reasonable shape I would suspect the integrity of the job probably exists across shippers and is present in general. Any issues after delivery are on the seller so you want to look to their customer service record.

[Nick Decker]

I just bought a table saw from Acme (through Amazon). Service and shipping were excellent, in fact it arrived at my door several days early.

Haven't had to deal with them for any problems, so can't comment on that.

Like Glenn said, a lot of it comes down to the shipper. In my case, the policy was that it would be delivered "curbside." I'm told that is for liability reasons. If the truck comes on your property, they get into liability issues, insurance-wise. In my case, a national trucking firm handed off the saw to a regional company who couldn't have been nicer. Backed the truck up to my garage door and moved the saw right into my shop. Had to almost beg the driver to accept a tip.

[Phil Mueller]

Russ, I’m curious. What is it that is no longer true...no longer knowledgeable staff, no longer provide free delivery, and/or no longer great customer service?

[Harry Hagan]

I couldn’t even tell you if the local Woodcraft store is still in business but I tried my best to buy a full complement of Powermatic stationary equipment and later over two grand of Festool hand-held stuff because I prefer to support local businesses.

Amazon delivered on site for a lot less money. The Woodcraft store would not deliver and refused to provide any loading assistance if I hauled it myself. And, you wouldn’t believe what they did to lose my Festool business.

[Martin Wasner]

I've spent a lot of money with ACME. I used to have a salesman there that I dealt with specifically for everything, but he recently went to another company.

[Brian W Evans]

No experience buying big machines from Acme but I have purchased from them several times over the years and never had a problem.

I have also had some very large machines, such as a sliding table saw, delivered with no problems. Inspect the packaging and as much of the machine as you can before signing for it. If it doesn't look good, refuse it.

If it were me, I would go for it.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I bought a drum sander from Acme that was delivered last week. Everything went very smoothly, and the price was better than I could find elsewhere. It had been supposed to be delivered on a liftgate truck, but since the heaviest box was under 200# it wasn't too hard for the the driver and me together to slide them out of the truck and onto a dolly. Prior to this I have bought all of my tools used, some online and some locally, and have had pretty good luck both ways.
Zach

[Mike Cutler]

Russ

Each online experience can be different. Some good, some bad, but most in between.
My 5HP Rolair, 60gallon, air compressor,came from Acme Tools online.
I ordered it on a holiday weekend, via the internet, as it was shown as the only one in stock. I called the toll free number and left a message to call me to verify the availability. I was called on a Sunday afternoon to verify that yes, my order was received, and processed, and the compressor would ship out on Tuesday when they were open. Even though the store is not physically open, they have a person processing internet orders in the off hours and responding to phone messages..They arranged for lift gate service and the driver and I literally put the compressor in the garage.
It was a very positive experience overall, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend ACME based on my experience.

[Warren Lake]

looks like they carry lots of stuff.

382730

[Russ Ambrose]

Phil, it's all three, in my opinion. Since the ownership change, the place just isn't the same. The current staff does not seem as knowledgeable or helpful. Moreover, the refusal to deliver equipment locally really irks me. The previous owner personally delivered equipment and took care of any issues that arose thereafter. I just don't have confidence in this particular Woodcraft any longer.

Just today, I stopped in to look at bandsaws and witnessed an employee attempting to load a table saw (new and in a large box) onto a customer's utility trailer. In an attempt to get the cart into the trailer, the employee laid down some really thin plywood as a ramp. When he tried to push the cart up the makeshift ramp, the cart busted through the plywood "ramp" and thunked on the sidewalk. What kind of business sells large machinery without the equipment or know-how to load said machinery into an ordinary utility trailer? I know. The kind of business that I will unlikely frequent again.

[Lisa Starr]

I've had good experiences purchasing equipment online. That said, I have the equipment delivered into a industrial plant (our family business). We have loading docks and the equipment to unload the commercial carrier quickly and efficiently. Additionally, NO freight is unloaded at our facility without a very close inspection of the packaging. If anything is even possibly wrong, it is immediately documented with photos and the freight bill is signed noting the damage and that there are photos. Note that once the selling entity loads the freight, any damage that occurs must be dealt with thru the carrier, not the selling company. I then move the equipment home to my shop via whatever method I feel will work. But, if I do damage, it is my problem.

[Ben Rivel]

Only problems Ive ever had with purchases made online were both with Grizzly tools from Grizzly. Everything else in my shop was bought online and never had any issues.

[Art Mann]

Most people I know praise Grizzly service. Can you elaborate?

[Corey Pelton]

I'm with Jim. I get things where I can, mostly. A lot of it is online, but I do buy from Rockler and Woodcraft, especially if I'm in dire need of something, and need it right away. Sometimes that instant gratification gets the best of me, hah.

As for Grizzly service, their customer service is impeccable, but their popular tools are almost always in a state of backorder. They are pretty horrible about knowing when something is going to make it to their warehouses. This worries me quite a bit about their tools. If they don't even know when their manufacturer is going to deliver, I expect their quality control is pretty abysmal as well. I've not experienced such a thing personally (I have a G0513X2 band saw and love it), but a lot of rumblings on here and other forums give me that impression. Nothing too crazy, that you can't take care of yourself with some elbow grease, but the price and quality, once dialed in are fantastic.

[Mike Henderson]

I ordered from Acme and everything went great. I'd definitely recommend them.

Mike

[Brian Nguyen]

I've bought my Performax 19-38 drum sander and my wife bought for me a Rikon 10-326 bandsaw from Acme. Both arrived perfectly fine, free shipping (the Rikon was drop-shipped from their warehouse) with lift gate included, etc. It was literally click, order, wait 3-5 days for the items to be driven to my house, and sign after inspecting the boxes that the delivery guy brings into the garage.

I've also bought my Grizzly table saw from their eBay store. Same great experience as Acme albeit it took Grizzly a week or so before they shipped.

The only issue I've had was ordering an 8" jointer from an e-bay store that's essentially drop shipping items sent directly from China/Taiwan. I ran into the dreaded "back order until infinity" issue, so I am left jointerless because I sold the Ridgid 6" jointer that I had prematurely. Oh well.

So yeah.. those were my experience buying big machines online.

[johnny means]

Am I the only person who thought ACME was a fictional entity from the Looney Tunes universe?

[Warren Lake]

Johnny see post 14

[glenn bradley]

looks like they carry lots of stuff.

Coffee on the monitor :D. Certainly those of us who grew up with 'the Road Runner' cartoons interpret the term 'acme' a little differently than it is commonly used. :rolleyes:

I have dealt with the real Acme Tool. No complaints at all.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Just today, I stopped in to look at bandsaws and witnessed an employee attempting to load a table saw (new and in a large box) onto a customer's utility trailer. In an attempt to get the cart into the trailer, the employee laid down some really thin plywood as a ramp. When he tried to push the cart up the makeshift ramp, the cart busted through the plywood "ramp" and thunked on the sidewalk. What kind of business sells large machinery without the equipment or know-how to load said machinery into an ordinary utility trailer? I know. The kind of business that I will unlikely frequent again.

Where was the customer while this fiasco was unfolding and did the customer have any responsibility in the loading process? I ask because the customer must have had a plan to offload the table saw at the destination. Unless the offloading was with a hoist system, the customer should have brought the ramp material to assist with the loading. The only heavy machinery I bought that I had to collect was a heavy jointer/planer. I didn't have my truck at the time, so I rented a panel van and spent about 30 minutes making a ramp with the metric equivalent of 2x8 planks and pieces of 1/2" plywood. The distributor loaded the palletized J/P into the van with a forklift, and I was able to pull it out of the van and into my garage. If I had my truck at the time, I would have used the chain hoist and straps in my garage to offload the J/P.

With the exception of the J/P, all of my shop equipment was delivered into my garage by the third-party shipper. In each case, the drivers asked me to open the crates or boxes and inspect for damage before they left. In one delivery, the truck was a tractor trailer and could not negotiate the turns from the main road to reach my house, which was about 150 meters. The driver offloaded the two pallets on the street and hauled them to my garage with a pallet jack.

Here's an example of a delivery doomed from the beginning (not mine):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA9-KD19eDs

[Alan Lightstone]

I try hard to purchase locally from my Woodcraft. They personally deliver everything, and couldn't be nicer or more knowledgeable. I do a lot of business with them, but I don't think that would matter. Just quality crew, and quality management.

Some of the very big stuff I've ordered online, from say Laguna (crappy customer service), and now from Felder (the real deal, as you would expect).

Shippers are very variable. Some excellent, some pretty bad. Funny, mine always accept a tip without a fuss.

The hardest time I had getting something delivered was, of all things, a pallet jack. Pretty funny and frustrating watching them refuse to use their pallet jack to move a pallet jack into my garage. Was their pallet jack jealous of the new shiny one??

[Alan Lightstone]

The video above:

Ouch. $5000 of J/P vs moron. The J/P never stood a chance.

[Rob Keller]

Russ, have you considered talking with the new owner and expressing your concerns? I say that for a couple of reasons. As a new business owner, he or she may not know the previous owner's plans and likely is overwhelmed with the new responsibilities. You may become a huge asset to them. Second, they could view you as a gem and might they might in turn provide extra value to you in the future. When we can keep business local, it is good for everyone.

Rob

[Mark Hennebury]

I have purchased many machines online from all across North America, Germany, and Japan, Both new machines and used.
Many of the machines were used and purchased at online auctions. I have had good and bad results. I have had machines tipped over and broken, i have received machines that have had two huge holes in the crate where the forklift was driven into it.
Had stuff lost, had some stuff shipped to different countries by mistake, and had to wait six or eight months to get it back.
Had people use old photos to falsely advertise the machine, so the machine looked great in the photos only to see that its rusted worn out junk when it arrives.
Its a nightmare trying to get settlements from trucking companies, auction companies, companies and private citizens etc, most just don't want to hear from you and just walk away, then you have you get nasty and lawyer up, if your lucky, six or eight months later you get to settle out of court for half of what they owe you.
I had one guy deliver a brand new bandsaw on a pallet wrapped in plastic, and headed off, as i pulled the plastic off i realized that the bandsaw had been shipped in a crate, had been tipped over and broken then they tried to cover it up by removing most of the broken crate and wrapping the machine in plastic wrap. I ran after the driver and caught him before he left, and refused to accept the machine and made him take it back.

I have had some riggers do an excellent job of crating equipment, other just throw stuff on a busted up pallet, truck shows up with the machines tipped over and castings broken.

The couple of times that i had new machines arrive damaged, i did not have much trouble getting them replaced. Used machines are a different story.

I think that as long as you deal with new machines you will probably be okay. But always inspect the machines when they arrive and take video and photos.

[Mike Cutler]

Yikes. That video is awful.
I don't know what happened to the shipping pallet, but a piece of 4x4 material to level out that pallet, prior to running the pallet jack under it, could have avoided that fiasco.
It is the drivers responsibility to get the machine off the truck. After that, it's the customers problem. I still would have been home to receive it and assist.

[Marshall Harrison]

Just ordered my Laguna table saw today. Hopefully when it ships it will arrive in one piece and it great shape. Flat shipping rate included residential delivery and lift gate. My Woodcraft is out of all table saws except for SawStop. By ordering online I got a 10% off plus no sales tax. Saved some $200 over buying it locally.

[Ben Rivel]

Most people I know praise Grizzly service. Can you elaborate?
More than welcome to read one of my stories here: LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?247797-Brand-New-Grizzly-G0563-Oscillating-Edge-Sander-Table-To-Platen-Not-Square-Issue&highlight=)

Thats the only one I have documented, but there have a couple others. Not as big though.

[Brian Nguyen]

The way the driver had to lower the pallet jack to the ground was eyebrows raising.

When i took delivery of my big tools, the driver kept the boxes on the pallet jack and simply dangled the jack off the liftgate before lowering to the ground. Then it's a matter of pushing the load off and into the street. It looked scary as hell to watch them pushed the 300lbs load off with the liftgate up like that but somehow it worked.




Where was the customer while this fiasco was unfolding and did the customer have any responsibility in the loading process? I ask because the customer must have had a plan to offload the table saw at the destination. Unless the offloading was with a hoist system, the customer should have brought the ramp material to assist with the loading. The only heavy machinery I bought that I had to collect was a heavy jointer/planer. I didn't have my truck at the time, so I rented a panel van and spent about 30 minutes making a ramp with the metric equivalent of 2x8 planks and pieces of 1/2" plywood. The distributor loaded the palletized J/P into the van with a forklift, and I was able to pull it out of the van and into my garage. If I had my truck at the time, I would have used the chain hoist and straps in my garage to offload the J/P.

With the exception of the J/P, all of my shop equipment was delivered into my garage by the third-party shipper. In each case, the drivers asked me to open the crates or boxes and inspect for damage before they left. In one delivery, the truck was a tractor trailer and could not negotiate the turns from the main road to reach my house, which was about 150 meters. The driver offloaded the two pallets on the street and hauled them to my garage with a pallet jack.

Here's an example of a delivery doomed from the beginning (not mine):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA9-KD19eDs