Another TS Question: Stamped Steel vs. Cast Iron

[Marshall Harrison]

I'm curious as to how important you guys think Cast Iron is to a table saw. Are stamped steel extensions okay or should I really go with cast iron? Would you consider that a deal breaker?

I realize I can save money now by going stamped steel then going with cast iron later but that would be the more expensive route in the long run.

Just wanting to get your thoughts.

[Cary Falk]

I prefer cast iron and it would be a deal breaker.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I got the SS contractor saw last spring and wish I would have gotten the cast iron wings and I will be upgrading sometime soon. You cant get a tight seam between the cast iron top and the steel wings. At least, you cant on the SawStop. The steel is harder to keep clean and the uneven surface can be problematic when trying to align things. HIGHLY recommend the cast iron if you can swing the cost. The good news is that if you want to start with the steel wings and then upgrade later there is no difference in cost. $270 either way you go. Again, this is regarding SawStop. Not sure on other brands.

[Bruce Page]

Deal breaker. My first saw was a Craftsman contractor with stamped steel wings, I hated them.

[glenn bradley]

If I was framing out a house I don’t really care. If you want to make furniture and finer items cast-iron dampens vibration, adds mass, and assures a seamless work surface. Your satisfaction will vary with your use. On an early contractor saw I replaced the stamped wings with hardwood framed MDF panels to assure a true working surface. This worked fine and is probably still in use on the saw for the new owner. I also threw a 100 lb sack of cement wrapped in plastic in the base of that saw to up the mass.

[Bill Space]

I never had an issue with the stamped steel wings on my old Craftsman contractors saw which has the cast iron top. I still have the saw and use it in the house next door I have been renovating. I used the same saw to make raised panel kitchen cabinet doors without issue.

BUT I like the cast iron wings on my Grizzly 1023RLWX MUCH better. If I were buying a saw, and the option was either, I would buy the cast iron wings without question. But either work in my opinion. The ones I don't think I would want are those ones that were sometime found on Craftsman saws, that had ribs with lots of open spaces between them. Perhaps only because I have a unifence on both saws and those type are not unifence friendly.

Bill

[Mike Manning]

I remember a long time ago when I was looking for my first TS. I was looking for a used saw and I considered those with stamped steel because I could get one cheaper. I'm glad I never went down that path. I've been very happy with both my Delta table saws. My first, which I still use, was a contractor's saw with CI wings and an extended table. I've also had a Unisaw for a few years now. If you're looking at used saws and I don't know why you wouldn't be you can definitely find what you want with some patience. Good luck in your search!

[Ben Rivel]

Pretty important to me that ALL my stationary tools have cast iron table tops.

[Jim Becker]

Cast iron adds mass and in turn, helps reduce things like vibration. The surface is also very enjoyable to work on.

[scott spencer]

The solid cast wings are great. Not a necessity, but a strongly preferred "nice to have" feature. My first saw had steel wings...my next 3 had solid cast iron. As Jim mentioned they add mass, and they also extend your solid flat reference surface. Steel wings are pretty easy to replace with something like a laminate topped torsion box.

Here's an example of a simple shop made extension:
http://www.businessassociate.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/6.jpg

[John Gulick]

Cast iron adds mass and in turn, helps reduce things like vibration. The surface is also very enjoyable to work on.

And stability

[John TenEyck]

If it was a choice between a saw with stamped steel wings or no saw at all, I would buy the saw. I had a Sears contractor saw with stamped steel wings and used it for 25 years. I didn't like those stamped steel wings but it never prevented me from doing good work. Now I have a Unisaw. Much nicer saw and nice cast iron extension wings. Can it do better work? Not really, it's just easier to do good work.

Buy the best you can afford with no regrets.

John

[Phillip Gregory]

Cast iron is important, and the more the better. Buy something nice and cry once, or buy something cheap and cry every time you use it.


Older machines have much more cast iron than newer ones, so if you are debating between a new cheap stamped-steel wing saw and a new saw that's a little more expensive with cast iron wings, get an older, larger, heavier saw with more cast iron and spend less than you would for the cheap new saw and end up with a lot better saw in the end.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Having made a living for the last forty years on a contractor saw with stamped steel wing on the left, and shop made melamine covered table on the right, I can't say that having a CI wing on left would have made any difference in my income. Cast iron wings are like Forest blades. Hobbiest think that having either will make them a better woodworker. One day, I will convert left wing to a router table, but it won't have a CI top.

[Dick Brown]

Solid cast wings, first choice. Long time ago, I thought the webbed cast wings were very cool till my fingertip acted as a stop between a board and one of the webs. If I had to chose now between stamped or cast webbed I still might take the webbed and put filler strips in the gaps. (Did it on my Clausing and it works well) Still get the benefits of more weight over the stamped.

[Frederick Skelly]

Prefer cast iron but have a steel wing and it works just fine for me. Definitely not a deal breaker.

[Michelle Rich]

I've used the same delta contractor since 1980's..I put melamine topped ply on each side .. Not a deal breaker for me.

[Matt Day]

OP gets the award for most researched and thought about table saw ever. Buy a saw and make some sawdust!

[Rod Sheridan]

I have what many would consider an expensive saw ( Hammer B3 Winner) and it has an aluminum sliding table, cast iron main top and steel extension top with a support structure underneath.

A cast iron extension would provide absolutely no benefit, and increase the cost and weight of the machine. The steel extension is as flat as is required to deliver good accuracy.

The previous saw ( General 650) had a wood extension table on what many would consider to be one of the better cabinet saws Again, cast iron would only contribute in a negative manner to the saw due to weight and cost.

Go ahead and buy a saw with steel tables, if they're flat, and by the way, I've seen a lot of cast iron extension tables that aren't flat..........Rod.

[andy bessette]

I'm curious as to how important you guys think Cast Iron is to a table saw...

I would not even consider a saw that had steel as an option. This is not a place to cheap out.

[Cary Falk]

Rod,
There is little doubt in my mind that the steel extension top on the of your Hammer is no where near the stamped steel wings of a Delta or Jet like the OP is asking about. Done right it could be fine.
Cary

[Al Launier]

In addition to the qualities for cast iron noted above, like mass and better vibration dampening properties compared to steel cast iron has to be made properly to stand up over time.To minimize warpage/distortion cast iron has be be made in properly designed molds to ensure structural rigidity during the pour and to provide uniform cooling. The casting must be thoroughly cooled, unrestrained, in order to cure properly.

[Jim Becker]

Rod,
There is little doubt in my mind that the steel extension top on the of your Hammer is no where near the stamped steel wings of a Delta or Jet like the OP is asking about. Done right it could be fine.
Cary
This is true. The steel extension tables that came with my Minimax S315WS slider are extremely heavy, powder coated steel and nothing like the typical stamped steel extension wings with budget table saws. That said, someone up above did make the comment that if it's the difference between having the saw with steel extensions or not having the saw...the steel wings win. They can always be replaced later.

[Frank Pratt]

If the saw was otherwise a good one at a price I could afford, I'd buy it. But I'd toss the stamped wings in the trash & build new ones out of plywood & melamine. That's just what I did when I had a contractors saw. I just hated the steel wings. Before that I had one with a webbed cast iron wing & my finger tips really hated those. Like many others have said though, cast wings are very nice.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod,
There is little doubt in my mind that the steel extension top on the of your Hammer is no where near the stamped steel wings of a Delta or Jet like the OP is asking about. Done right it could be fine.
Cary

You are correct, that's why I replied that there's nothing wrong with a cast or stamped extension, or one made out of wood.

The blanket statements that stamped steel extensions are no good is false.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a saw because the wings are stamped steel, even if they're not flat. They could easily be replaced by a wood table, and unless they tip up at the edges ( which can be corrected with a pop can shim, they won't affect the saw cutting action.........Rod.

[Steve Demuth]

I've got an after-market cast iron on the right and factory stamped steel on the left of the first table saw I ever owned. I rather prefer the iron wing, but replacing the steel one wouldn't make the saw into something significantly better than what it was out of the box - a mass-market low-end hybrid, with fit-and-finish issues that required quite a bit of effort to initially address, and quality and capability issues that are everyday parts of using the saw.

[Marshall Harrison]

OP gets the award for most researched and thought about table saw ever. Buy a saw and make some sawdust!

Obviously you don't know my wife. Whatever I buy it will have to be a saw that lasts me the rest of my life. I won't get any opportunities to upgrade in the future so I want to make sure I make the right decision. Its a big purchase for us financially and she isn't too thrilled about it.

Locally there isn't much opportunity to actually touch any of these saws. The local Woodcraft store only has a SawStop contractor and a PCS in stock. No Jets, Laguna or Powermatic to look at or ask questions about.

Hence, all the questions.

[Al Launier]

Obviously you don't know my wife. Whatever I buy it will have to be a saw that lasts me the rest of my life. I won't get any opportunities to upgrade in the future so I want to make sure I make the right decision. Its a big purchase for us financially and she isn't too thrilled about it.

Locally there isn't much opportunity to actually touch any of these saws. The local Woodcraft store only has a SawStop contractor and a PCS in stock. No Jets, Laguna or Powermatic to look at or ask questions about.

Hence, all the questions.

Asking questions and learning from them is what this forum is all about. Good on you!

[Jim Becker]

Even if there wasn't the pressure from your other half for "one and done", it's always a good practice to acquire the best tool you can afford, even if you have to wait an extra month or three to have the funding to do it. Otherwise, it's ultimately more expensive to buy the "less expensive initially" tool...

Given that, focus on the saw itself more than the type of extension wings. The "best saw" wins regardless of what the table extensions are initially made of. Cast iron is certainly the most desirable, but don't sacrifice on the "meat" of the saw to get them. And I'm sure it's already been mentioned...a good used cabinet saw with all the bells and whistles can often be purchased for the same or sometimes less than the brand new mass market contractors' style or hybrid saw.

[Bryan Lisowski]

Even if there wasn't the pressure from your other half for "one and done", it's always a good practice to acquire the best tool you can afford, even if you have to wait an extra month or three to have the funding to do it. Otherwise, it's ultimately more expensive to buy the "less expensive initially" tool...

Given that, focus on the saw itself more than the type of extension wings. The "best saw" wins regardless of what the table extensions are initially made of. Cast iron is certainly the most desirable, but don't sacrifice on the "meat" of the saw to get them. And I'm sure it's already been mentioned...a good used cabinet saw with all the bells and whistles can often be purchased for the same or sometimes less than the brand new mass market contractors' style or hybrid saw.

This is very sound advise. My saw came with stamped wings and I never put them on. I put a CI router table on one side and then made a work table to fit between the rails for the other, in a small shop I needed a little extra bench space. I also replaced the fence. I'm happy with it, however if I had it to do over I would have bought a used cabinet saw over a contractor saw.

[Charles Lent]

I like my cast iron side tables over the stamped steel, but also very much don't like the webbed cast iron side tables. I used a friend's saw one time that had the webbed side tables and hated them more than the steel side tables. I pinched my fingers several times between the off cuts and the edge of a hole in the side table when pulling them back toward me. Edges of the work can frequently catch in them too.

Charley

[Josh Kocher]

My saw is cast iron with steel wings and it's fine, I do lots of great builds.

No doubt all cast iron would be better, a bigger saw would be better, a Felder slider would be better yet.

Get the best saw you can get and you'll make it work...

[Curt Harms]

I like my cast iron side tables over the stamped steel, but also very much don't like the webbed cast iron side tables. I used a friend's saw one time that had the webbed side tables and hated them more than the steel side tables. I pinched my fingers several times between the off cuts and the edge of a hole in the side table when pulling them back toward me. Edges of the work can frequently catch in them too.

Charley

Sort of off-topic but plywood will often fit nicely in those webbed recesses. That's what I did when I had an Emerson/Sears contractors saw. To the O.P. if you can get 240 volt power - think a stove or dryer outlet - you might be able to snag a good used cabinet saw for similar $. Cab saws with smaller right hand tables can take less space than a contractors saw.

[Sean Tracey]

There are 4 table saws. Euro Slider, cabinet, contractor, job-site. It seams you are looking at contractor. You can do decent work on a contractor.

Cabinet saws don't have wings. The use a single cast iron table with heavy gussets underneath to support the table and allow it to stay relatively flat after machining. They put cast iron to good use. The other thing cabinet saws have going for them is that the large, single piece table is excellent to mount a quality fence on with the attachment points for the fence being able to be as wide as possible.

Contractors have wings. The center table is where the iron is used effectively. You could make the wings out of iron, but I really think it's a waste of money. You aren't getting the benefit of a single, machined table and that iron weight isn't doing much for the stability of the machine anymore than making wings out of concrete would. Better to put the iron into the center table and trunnions and a beefy arbor assembly.

The wings hang off the side and are going to sag a certain amount. Steel is actually stiffer than iron and it's certainly possible that you may have less sag with a steel wing. The iron is machined which makes it flatter at least before hanging off the side of a center table.

I have a contractor saw and I removed the steel wings and installed a fence with formica router tables on each side instead. I've leveled everything pretty decently and any sag is far enough away or small enough that I get quality cuts. The formica is nice for the amount of work I do and is slick. It is rust free, requires no care, and doesn't mark or stain work.

I like being able to use one expensive fence for table sawing, left side routing for edges and the right side router table, though rarely used works for things that could use a full table of support to the left of the bit.

The whole thing is mobile.

So, I would recommend either a contractor saw with the cheapest wings or a table saw. For me, If I were to get another saw, it would be a slider. I'd keep the contractor I have now.

[Ray Newman]

"Cabinet saws don't have wings."

--Sean Tracey

I am not so sure 'bout that. My 2016 SawStop ICS has 2 cast iron wings. Prior to the SawStop, I ran a circa 1987 Uni-saw that also "sported" 2 cast iron wings. Both of these saws were sold new to me with OEM wing --not as an accessory/add-on or aftermarket.

[Marshall Harrison]

OP gets the award for most researched and thought about table saw ever. Buy a saw and make some sawdust!

I'll gladly accept that award now that my quest is over - https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?263636-I-finally-did-it-I-ordered-my-table-saw&p=2796824#post2796824

[Sean Tracey]

"Cabinet saws don't have wings."

--Sean Tracey

I am not so sure 'bout that. My 2016 SawStop ICS has 2 cast iron wings. Prior to the SawStop, I ran a circa 1987 Uni-saw that also "sported" 2 cast iron wings. Both of these saws were sold new to me with OEM wing --not as an accessory/add-on or aftermarket.

I looked at some pictures as well as the Sawstop web site. I was convinced the center table was wider on a table saw. Apparantly, the center table on the contactor and the professional saw is exactly the same width at 20" wide while the Industrial is 24" wide.

So cabinet saws do have wings but they are probably attached way better than my weird 1970's Rockwell Delta contractor. It looks like you get a deeper side flange out of hopefully heavier material.

[lowell holmes]

I have a 15 year old Delta contractor saw that came with the melamine wings and I am totally happy with it.

[Jim Becker]

Sean, you need to add the hybrid saws to your list of general types...they look like cabinet saws, but the trunions are handled more like a contractors' style saw. :)

[Bruce Wrenn]

I looked at some pictures as well as the Sawstop web site. I was convinced the center table was wider on a table saw. Apparantly, the center table on the contactor and the professional saw is exactly the same width at 20" wide while the Industrial is 24" wide.

So cabinet saws do have wings but they are probably attached way better than my weird 1970's Rockwell Delta contractor. It looks like you get a deeper side flange out of hopefully heavier material.The CI wings off a Uni are a direct fit onto your Delta contractor's saw. The early Delta contractor saws came with CI wings.

[johnny means]

Stamped, cast, plywood they all work very well as long as they're flat and level and start that way. Just avoid those webbed cast things, they'll chop the tip of your finger off.

[Sid Matheny]

I have a granite top & wings table saw and love it. No worry about any rust if I get a senior moment and set something wet on it. :)

[Phillip Gregory]

There are 4 table saws. Euro Slider, cabinet, contractor, job-site. It seams you are looking at contractor. You can do decent work on a contractor.

Cabinet saws don't have wings. The use a single cast iron table with heavy gussets underneath to support the table and allow it to stay relatively flat after machining. They put cast iron to good use. The other thing cabinet saws have going for them is that the large, single piece table is excellent to mount a quality fence on with the attachment points for the fence being able to be as wide as possible.

Nope, all of the cabinet saws I have seen have wings/extension tables. The Delta Unisaw, which essentially defined "cabinet saw" has cast iron wings that bolt to the main table, as does the larger 12/14 and all of the clones I've seen with the possible exception of the few Orion saws that had granite tops. My Grizzly Unisaw clone has two cast-iron wings about a foot wide. Some of the real big industrial saws had a single monolithic top, and it's invariably a giant chunk of cast iron.


There are also two other kinds of saws. One is the hybrid saw, which is essentially a contractor saw in an enclosed cabinet, and then the old-school tilt-top saws. The Europeans also didn't invent the sliding tablesaw, American industrial makers such as Oliver made sliding tablesaws when Europe was still a pile of their own rubble in the '40s. The American makers didn't stick with the design as they invented a couple of better specific-usage tools that ended up working better, namely the radial arm saw and the panel saw.


Contractors have wings. The center table is where the iron is used effectively. You could make the wings out of iron, but I really think it's a waste of money. You aren't getting the benefit of a single, machined table and that iron weight isn't doing much for the stability of the machine anymore than making wings out of concrete would. Better to put the iron into the center table and trunnions and a beefy arbor assembly.

Extension wings milled flat with a jointed edge are going to mate up square and result in a flat table top, just as a face planed and edge jointed board is going to butt up nearly imperceptibly to another face planed and edge jointed board. The extra weight or iron wings that weigh 50 pounds apiece does add a lot of vibration dampening ability over sheet steel wings weighing 5 pounds apiece as weight of any kind adds to vibration dampening. Concrete wings would work very well as long as you could reinforce them well enough to keep them from sagging and cracking.. Orion did essentially that with using rock (granite) on their saw tops and wings.


The wings hang off the side and are going to sag a certain amount. Steel is actually stiffer than iron and it's certainly possible that you may have less sag with a steel wing. The iron is machined which makes it flatter at least before hanging off the side of a center table.

Steel is stiffer/stronger than iron but the big difference is that you get a stamped sheet steel casting about 1/16-3/32" thick vs. a ribbed cast iron casting about 3/8" thick. There is simply so much more thickness of the cast iron that there is grossly more resistance to deflection.

[Rod Sheridan]

. The Europeans also didn't invent the sliding tablesaw, American industrial makers such as Oliver made sliding tablesaws when Europe was still a pile of their own rubble in the '40s. The American makers didn't stick with the design as they invented a couple of better specific-usage tools that ended up working better, namely the radial arm saw and the panel saw.

.

Hi Phillip, Wilhelm Altendorf invented the sliding table saw in 1906 in Berlin Germany, it was not an American invention.

regards, Rod.