Phone Spammers

[Tom Bender]

These criminals (they ignore the do not call list and steal from the gullible and make our phones almost useless) are apparently too hard for our government to stop. Given that, I think we are wasting a lot of money on Homeland Security. They are facing more treacherous criminals and all they can tell us is that they are doing a great job but it's all secret. I don't believe it.

[Lee Schierer]

I use caller ID and and I don't answer calls that I don't know the number. We have 24/7 voice mail so if it is someone that really knows me they can leave a message and I call them back. Robo callers just dial numbers sequentially without regard to rules.

[Brian Henderson]

Exactly. If you don't recognize the number, don't answer it, send it to voice mail and if they don't leave a message, it wasn't important anyhow.

[George Bokros]

We use NoMoRobo and if a call gets through if we do not recognize the number or name it goes to voice mail.

[Mike Cary]

These guys will ghost your number or someone you know. I received 2 calls last week from people who said I had just called them. There were no outgoing calls to their numbers. They can “trick” caller id.

[Mike Henderson]

We use NoMoRobo and if a call gets through if we do not recognize the number or name it goes to voice mail.

We use NoMoRobo also and it's great. It may not get all the spam calls, but it gets a lot. Highly recommended if you use VOIP.

With NoMoRobo, your phone rings once because the caller ID comes between the first and second ring - so NoMoRobo can't see who is calling until after the first ring. We've just become accustomed to waiting to see if the phone rings twice.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Some of the automated or robo-callers are getting more sophisticated to sound like a real person.

It used to get me upset. Now hanging up is good enough for a recording. It would be nice if they knew their target hung up so they wouldn't tie up your line for the whole spiel.

My favorite is when it is a live person. My voice when answering an unknown call is very soft and frail sounding. Hopefully keeping my voice low will get them to turn up their headset. That is when some of the touchtone buttons are pressed. From what they are heard saying after that one might get the impression they do not like it.

jtk

[Bruce Wrenn]

We receive calls from the phone number that is answering the incoming call, according to caller ID. I think Verizon may be selling your data, as I get calls that are just one digit different from numbers that I regularly call,or receive calls from. At first glance, you think "that's so and so," then answer. Because I have a business, I must answer calls. I just don't answer any between 11:00AM, and 12:30 PM, as this is when the "Your car warranty has expired," calls. If you call back to number shown, it's some smuck who didn't call you, but they spoofed his number.

[John Terefenko]

+1 I never knew how many times my phone rings per day until I retired 4 years ago. There was a device on QVC the other day that I almost bought but it cancels many known robo call numbers and if a new one comes in you can add it to the list. But what I learned more important was the tricks some of these caller use. The frightening one was the ability to get you to say certain words such as if the ask your name or say your name and you say the word yes. Other key words are gotten the longer they hold you on line. Now they take those words and can use them for other unlawul practices including solicitng items for themselves. just a word of caution.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I run a small phone company. I set up a system to call these people and either play screaming monkeys to them or call two of them and conference them together. The latter is really hilarious. I have some recordings of a scammer in Pakistan screaming at the other scammer in India, or guys trying to pick up ladies at the other scammer call center. I can post a link, but obviously they contain "bad" language and such, not sure if someone would object. Though you don't have to click and go there if you don't want to hear it.

[Bill Jobe]

My problem with spammers using the phone numbers of others began when I downloaded a caller ID app from Google Playstore. Found out later the app creates a whole bank full of new numbers to spoof. I get calls daily from numbers from Verizon. One day I called one back and it was a private phone and the guy was upset because I was not the first to call him and complain.
"I did not call you" he said.
It's getting worse. Now I'm getting spoof text messages.

[Carlos Alvarez]

It's getting worse. Now I'm getting spoof text messages.

That's because you gave your cell number to a company that sold it off. I get zero SMS spam, but most people get a bit. I never give my cell number to any company. Best Buy wanted me to give it to them so they could notify me when a salesperson was ready for me--right in the store. Uh, no. I get that it can be convenient, so get a Google Voice number or something similar, which at least lets you cut off spammers (and they block a lot).

[Stephen Tashiro]

These criminals (they ignore the do not call list and steal from the gullible and make our phones almost useless) are apparently too hard for our government to stop.

It surprises me that prominent politicians (that I know about) haven't made a promise to stop robo-calls a prominent part of their campaigns. ( After all, whether something actually can be done or not isn't relevant to a campaign promise.)

[Carlos Alvarez]

It surprises me that prominent politicians (that I know about) haven't made a promise to stop robo-calls a prominent part of their campaigns. ( After all, whether something actually can be done or not isn't relevant to a campaign promise.)

Maybe it's just too obviously impossible? It really is.

[Bill Dufour]

I understand that they set up office outside the USA so the do not call fines can not be enforced. I wonder how us relations are with Nigeria and its multiple dead princes? I believe it's national flag has black in it for all the funerals of rich folks with no wills who are dieing all the time over there.
Bill D.

[Mel Fulks]

Some time back I heard a political campaign manager on TV talking about robo calls. His guy was in a tight race and he wanted to use phone calls. But the only time left to buy was in the middle of the night. So he bought the time to run messages for the OPPONENT. And his guy won.

[Carlos Alvarez]

Some time back I heard a political campaign manager on TV talking about robo calls. His guy was in a tight race and he wanted to use phone calls. But the only time left to buy was in the middle of the night. So he bought the time to run messages for the OPPONENT. And his guy won.

Well the one I'm aware of had to do with a bill, not a campaign, and the late calls were the result of a bug. Nobody actually sells dialer time in the middle of the night, it's not productive. And unless a politician is contracting a shady company in another country, nobody is going to run his calls outside of legal hours. Calling from the US would get it just down quickly (and I've had a number of them shut down by contacting the carriers in my network).

If that did happen, someone should be seeing some criminal charges. It's easy to hide outside the US, but not within the US.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I understand that they set up office outside the USA so the do not call fines can not be enforced. I wonder how us relations are with Nigeria and its multiple dead princes? I believe it's national flag has black in it for all the funerals of rich folks with no wills who are dieing all the time over there.
Bill D.

Other countries don't care much about our do not call list, but they do help do raids on scammers. Call centers full of Indians and Pakistanis have been led out of them in handcuffs in joint US and local operations. There are a bunch of scams in other countries, but most seem to originate there. The Nigerian scams tend more towards e-mail scams.


382423

[Mel Fulks]

He was an old guy and he did not say how far back that election was. There are stories more outrageous that have been proven by prosecution.

[Curt Harms]

We use NoMoRobo also and it's great. It may not get all the spam calls, but it gets a lot. Highly recommended if you use VOIP.

With NoMoRobo, your phone rings once because the caller ID comes between the first and second ring - so NoMoRobo can't see who is calling until after the first ring. We've just become accustomed to waiting to see if the phone rings twice.

Mike

NoMoRobo is an absolute godsend during political seasons. They are offering a service for cell phones for a modest fee, I think it's $1.99/month. It does require simultaneous ring so doesn't work on POTS AFAIK.

[Mike Gresham]

With NoMoRobo, your phone rings once because the caller ID comes between the first and second ring - so NoMoRobo can't see who is calling until after the first ring. We've just become accustomed to waiting to see if the phone rings twice.

Mike

Panasonic and probably others have an option on some models to mute the first ring. Works for me.

[Al Launier]

What a great thread. I was totally unaware of NoMoRobo until now, so I googled it and received an email which then led me online where I installed it . I tested it and I received a confirming callback, so I guess I now have it.

In the past I used the "Do Not Call" feature which turned out to be ineffective. I then stopped answering calls from unknowns, but my wife was to curious thinking we might miss a legitimate call. So, I then started using the "Call Block" feature on my phone, and although it worked it got to be a nuisance to go through the motions for each Robocall.

Hopefully this NoMORobo works as described. Now we have to discipline ourselves to wait for the second ring before answering the phone.

[Mike Henderson]

Panasonic and probably others have an option on some models to mute the first ring. Works for me.

Thanks for that tip. I have a Panasonic cordless phone and just set it to not do the first ring. Wonderful!

Mike

[Bill Jobe]

Maybe it's just too obviously impossible? It really is.

I think you're right, Carlos.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I think you're right, Carlos.

The phone network is built on a premise of interoperability and allowing everything to reach its destination. There are some motions to change that for specific customers who want it, but as a general rule, the FCC will never allow significant call blocking because it hampers the basic ability to absolutely know that every phone can reach every other. We are test-driving a solution for our customers where we look up a "scam score" when the call hits our network, and the customer sets the score threshold. Let's say they pick 4. Any calls with a 4+ then go directly to a screening system. That system could be simply going to voicemail, or could ask the caller a question and make them press a button, or other options. In one case it would go to a call center in Mexico to be pre-screened and then transferred back.

Consumers however have had it, so all these screening apps are hitting the market. Phone companies themselves may be prevented from blocking, but customers never will be.

[Jim Becker]

The biggest new challenge with robo/scam calls is the random spoofing of local numbers. Systems like NoMoRobo and others simply cannot catch those, so carriers and providers are going to have to get deeper into inspection to help combat those calls. When I get these on our home number, they are typically 215-79x-xxx which is our local CO's primary block but they do come up with "Out of Area" on the CID. What that tells me is that VZ or other carriers need to be part of the solution. I get the same issue with my wireless number...random spoofed numbers with the same area code and exchange as my number. Neither NoMoRobo or ATT Call Protect on my phone can identify them with authority as scam/spam calls, although the latter sometimes makes a good guess.

[Carlos Alvarez]

The biggest new challenge with robo/scam calls is the random spoofing of local numbers. Systems like NoMoRobo and others simply cannot catch those, so carriers and providers are going to have to get deeper into inspection to help combat those calls. When I get these on our home number, they are typically 215-79x-xxx which is our local CO's primary block but they do come up with "Out of Area" on the CID. What that tells me is that VZ or other carriers need to be part of the solution. I get the same issue with my wireless number...random spoofed numbers with the same area code and exchange as my number. Neither NoMoRobo or ATT Call Protect on my phone can identify them with authority as scam/spam calls, although the latter sometimes makes a good guess.

The challenge is that ALL numbers are "spoofed" in a sense. We set CLID and/or ANI on every single call during the call processing. There's no such thing as a native real CLID for any call that doesn't originate from a regular analog line. A SIP connection could be carrying calls for hundreds or thousands of handsets, each with their own CLID. We set rules on our own network, but there's no way for us to differentiate incoming calls that should or should not contain a certain ID. A customer can very legitimately call from even outside the country with a local CLID.

Example: We serve a medical billing company with nearly 1400 legit DIDs. The calls however could come from any of their locations inside or outside the US. Their call center in Cebu can also call using their client's CLID because the client said that's ok, and they want their branding and identity shown on the call. People are also more likely to answer than a call from a random number.

So when I say "impossible" I'm not saying so lightly, because there literally is no such thing as "real" versus "spoofed" CLID on a technical level.

[Steve Peterson]

The biggest new challenge with robo/scam calls is the random spoofing of local numbers. Systems like NoMoRobo and others simply cannot catch those, so carriers and providers are going to have to get deeper into inspection to help combat those calls. When I get these on our home number, they are typically 215-79x-xxx which is our local CO's primary block but they do come up with "Out of Area" on the CID. What that tells me is that VZ or other carriers need to be part of the solution. I get the same issue with my wireless number...random spoofed numbers with the same area code and exchange as my number. Neither NoMoRobo or ATT Call Protect on my phone can identify them with authority as scam/spam calls, although the latter sometimes makes a good guess.

My cell phone has been getting at least one call per week from numbers that match the area code and first 3 digits. Only the last 4 digits are different. They are always from slightly different numbers, so I am guessing that they are spoofed. I always thought that similar looking numbers might increase the odds of someone picking up because the person may think it is from a local caller. Or it is a way to get past NoMoRobo. I don't carry my phone, so I never pick up and there is never a message.

[Jim Becker]

The challenge is that ALL numbers are "spoofed" in a sense. .

The context I was using was that the spammers/scammers are providing CLID/ANI fraudulently (and somewhat randomly within an area code/exchange numbering perspective) rather than for the legal industry/business reasons you cite where it's added in software out of necessity. I'm intensely familiar with this given having spent the last couple of decades prior to recent retirement moving businesses and government entities from traditional PBXs to native SIP environments...with them kicking and screaming sometimes. :D

[Harold Balzonia]

I'm in the minority, for sure, but I generally don't ever talk on the phone anymore. I have maybe 5 people I talk with regularly but other than that, its all texts and emails. I NEVER answer the phone unless it's one of the "main 5" and I might get 2-3 voicemails a month out of the 200-300 calls I get. My phone ringer is always off and only set to vibrate. The sheer number of scam calls is crazy so I just quit using the phone as a phone. My iPhone is a camera, texting, email, and internet device for me.

[Curt Harms]

What a great thread. I was totally unaware of NoMoRobo until now, so I googled it and received an email which then led me online where I installed it . I tested it and I received a confirming callback, so I guess I now have it.

In the past I used the "Do Not Call" feature which turned out to be ineffective. I then stopped answering calls from unknowns, but my wife was to curious thinking we might miss a legitimate call. So, I then started using the "Call Block" feature on my phone, and although it worked it got to be a nuisance to go through the motions for each Robocall.

Hopefully this NoMORobo works as described. Now we have to discipline ourselves to wait for the second ring before answering the phone.

Please if you get a call that should have been blocked and wasn't, report that number to NoMoRobo so they can research it and add to their block list if appropriate. One spammer was able to get NoMoRobo's phone number to appear on the display:D.

[Bill Jobe]

Perhaps I should try NoMoRobo. Thanks.

[Al Launier]

Thanks for that tip. I have a Panasonic cordless phone and just set it to not do the first ring. Wonderful!

Mike

Mike, what model Panasonic cordless do you have? I also have the PNLC1040 model & couldn't find that menu option. You must have a more advanced model.

We just signed on for this free Comcast/Xfinity option and using the NoMoRobo is a nice feature. We have now conditioned ourselves to wait until the 2nd ring, but I can see where knowing the first ring is legit would be nice.

Good idea Curt. I just added the number (202-813-1600) to the phone book.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, what model Panasonic cordless do you have? I also have the PNLC1040 model & couldn't find that menu option. You must have a more advanced model.

We just signed on for this free Comcast/Xfinity option and using the NoMoRobo is a nice feature. We have now conditioned ourselves to wait until the 2nd ring, but I can see where knowing the first ring is legit would be nice.

Good idea Curt. I just added the number (202-813-1600) to the phone book.

Update on my previous comment. I have a selection that says "One ring for blocked call" and I set it, but it doesn't kill the first ring on my phone. I don't know what it's supposed to do but I still get the first ring.

You can set "blocked numbers" in my phone but the phone wouldn't receive the caller ID until after the first ring so it couldn't block the first ring on just those numbers - so I figured it would block all first rings. But I still get a first ring.

I get into that menu thread by pressing a button labeled "Call Block".

Mike

[Carlos Alvarez]

Update on my previous comment. I have a selection that says "One ring for blocked call" and I set it, but it doesn't kill the first ring on my phone.
Mike

It makes the phone ring ONLY one time if you get a call that's on your block list. Ring -- CLID is delivered -- Call is blocked and won't ring any more.

Analog phones. How quaint.

[Mike Henderson]

It makes the phone ring ONLY one time if you get a call that's on your block list. Ring -- CLID is delivered -- Call is blocked and won't ring any more.

Analog phones. How quaint.
I interpreted the message a bit differently - maybe I'm incorrect but here's how I interpreted it. If a call is blocked, it should not ring. For the message "One ring for blocked call" the options were "yes" and "no". I interpret the "no" option as I will not get one ring for a blocked call and the "yes" as I will get one ring for a blocked call. The default was "yes" and I set it to "no".

Since the phone can't know the caller until it receives the caller ID, my expectation is that the phone will not indicate the first ring on any call, and once it recognizes the blocked call it will not ring any more. If the caller is not a blocked call, the phone will ring what would have been the second ring.

Seems to me that if you block a call you don't want it to ring, but you might want to allow a single ring so you can look at the caller ID and answer if you were to choose to.

But that doesn't seem to be the way it works.

Mike

[Carlos Alvarez]

Doesn't your test show that it works the way I believe it does? That's how all such analog features have worked on all phones I dealt with back when I was in the analog world. Now the CLID is just part of the signaling path so it can be blocked with zero rings, zero indication of a call. I've never seen an analog phone that can make very intelligent decisions like what you suggest. I get why you want it, but it just seems unlikely. Again though, I haven't touched an analog phone in a very long time.

[Myk Rian]

My cell phone has been getting at least one call per week from numbers that match the area code and first 3 digits. Only the last 4 digits are different.
Those are the ones I get on my cell phone. I send them to voice mail, then blacklist the number if no message left.

We got rid of the landline years ago, and have never missed it. All we got were sales, scams, and politicians/scams. :D
My IUD (pacemaker/defib) base station uses bluetooth-to-cell to send its reports during the night. FAX can be done with the computer.
So, we have no need for a house phone.

[Jim Becker]

Myk, it's almost not worth the bother of blacklisting the "local spoofed numbers" you mention because they are randomly chosen by the illegal dialer and may very well be a legitimate number that calls in the future. But there's no harm in putting them in jail for anyone that prefers to.

[Mike Henderson]

Those are the ones I get on my cell phone. I send them to voice mail, then blacklist the number if no message left.


The spammers are randomly choosing the last four numbers and they may choose numbers that belong to one of your friends or neighbors. If you block that number, you may be blocking a friend.

Also, since they choose those numbers randomly, it's really useless to block them. They'll choose a different number next time they call you.

Mike

[Myk Rian]

The spammers are randomly choosing the last four numbers and they may choose numbers that belong to one of your friends or neighbors. If you block that number, you may be blocking a friend.

Also, since they choose those numbers randomly, it's really useless to block them. They'll choose a different number next time they call you.

Mike
I realize they are random numbers, so I can blacklist up to 9,998 of them. If a friend doesn't leave a voice mail, oh well.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I've always found it fascinating that people have so much anxiety about ignoring the phone, or the doorbell. If I'm not expecting anyone, and the doorbell rings, most of the time I do nothing. Who cares? If it's someone I want to talk to, they will call, and I will have their number already. Phone rings, don't recognize it, who cares? Leave a message. No message? Wasn't important. My phone is a crucial business tool, and yet still, not life and death and voicemail is there for a reason.

[Brian Henderson]

I've always found it fascinating that people have so much anxiety about ignoring the phone, or the doorbell. If I'm not expecting anyone, and the doorbell rings, most of the time I do nothing. Who cares? If it's someone I want to talk to, they will call, and I will have their number already. Phone rings, don't recognize it, who cares? Leave a message. No message? Wasn't important. My phone is a crucial business tool, and yet still, not life and death and voicemail is there for a reason.

Same here. If I'm not expecting you, I don't answer the door. I might peek out the window in case it's the cops or something, but otherwise, I just ignore it. I don't care what you're selling, I'm not buying. Leave me alone. Same with the phone. I look at the number, if it isn't someone I recognize, I don't answer it. They can leave a message and I'll decide if I want to call them back or not. I have no obligation to these people. I don't owe them anything. If I want to interact, I will. Otherwise I won't. That's the way the world works today.

[Carlos Alvarez]

If it's the cops, you will know. They are rather insistent. Even when just trying to tell me that they recovered some stolen property.

[Mike Henderson]

I realize they are random numbers, so I can blacklist up to 9,998 of them. If a friend doesn't leave a voice mail, oh well.

I'm not sure what you mean by blacklisting 9,998 of them. You'd have to manually enter all of those numbers into your blacklist which would take a long time, and many of the phones do not have storage for that many blacklisted numbers. What my phone does is roll the oldest number out when I try to enter a new number, once I reach the maximum number limit.

And you would cut off phone communications from anyone who did have any of the numbers you blacklisted. They would not be able to call you or leave you voice mail messages, unless your blacklist function works by directing those blacklisted calls to your voicemail function.

Mike

[Carlos Alvarez]

They would not be able to call you or leave you voice mail messages, unless your blacklist function works by directing those blacklisted calls to your voicemail function.

Mike

I wasn't aware that there were any blacklists that don't send the call to VM. Which product/OS?

[Jim Becker]

I'm not sure what you mean by blacklisting 9,998 of them.
He's referring to the 1,000 number block for that exchange and used "up to". Apparently he only is worried about two numbers in that block remaining available. :) :D

[Mike Henderson]

I wasn't aware that there were any blacklists that don't send the call to VM. Which product/OS?
NoMoRobo just blocks them. But that's not in my phone. I also have ATT blocking on my cell phone and that just blocks them - no VM (I think that's Hiya).

Mike

[Carlos Alvarez]

NoMoRobo just blocks them. But that's not in my phone. I also have ATT blocking on my cell phone and that just blocks them - no VM (I think that's Hiya).

Mike
Hiya and TrueCaller send them to VM, at least on iOS. I've only used them marginally on Android and don't know if that's different.

[Mike Henderson]

Hiya and TrueCaller send them to VM, at least on iOS. I've only used them marginally on Android and don't know if that's different.

ATT did a deal with Hiya and they use Hiya to block calls on their system. I have an iPhone and use their service. A call that is blocked is gone - no VM. If it comes through and is labeled as "Telemarketer" and I push one of the volume buttons, it goes to VM. That's the same as any other call when I do the same thing (press one of the buttons).

But a fully blocked call does not go to VM.

Mike

[I get a note through the ATT app that a call was blocked - that's how I know the call didn't come through. I guess they want to advertise that the blocking function is actually working.]

[Brian Henderson]

If it's the cops, you will know. They are rather insistent. Even when just trying to tell me that they recovered some stolen property.

Not the cops coming to the door with a warrant or anything, they have no reason to do that. But I have had cops come to ask me if I saw anything regarding a neighbor being burglarized or something and I'd want to help out if I could. But other than that, there are very, very few times that I will ever open the door for anyone I'm not expecting.

[Myk Rian]

I'm not sure what you mean by blacklisting 9,998 of them. You'd have to manually enter all of those numbers into your blacklist which would take a long time,
The wildcard * works.


I wasn't aware that there were any blacklists that don't send the call to VM. Which product/OS?
Android


He's referring to the 1,000 number block for that exchange and used "up to". Apparently he only is worried about two numbers in that block remaining available. :) :D
Yep. My number and my Wife's.

[Jim Becker]

So you don't deal with any local business or medical professionals that are in the same block? That would be unusual in most places. :) But it sure will be quiet when the phone don't ring!

[Carlos Alvarez]

So you don't deal with any local business or medical professionals that are in the same block? That would be unusual in most places. :) But it sure will be quiet when the phone don't ring!

I don't recall ever getting a legit call from anyone in the same prefix other than our own customers (because well, we assigned the numbers of course). And that's my desk phone's prefix, not the cell, so when I block it on the cell it has no effect on legit calls.

Look, if it's important, just e-mail me.

[Myk Rian]

But it sure will be quiet when the phone don't ring!
And that's a bad thing because....

[Jim Becker]

And that's a bad thing because....

I didn't say it was a bad thing. :)

[Myk Rian]

I didn't say it was a bad thing. :)
Right. It isn't a bad thing.
Why are people so darned defensive around here?

[Brian Henderson]

So you don't deal with any local business or medical professionals that are in the same block? That would be unusual in most places. :) But it sure will be quiet when the phone don't ring!

I don't because my phone has a phone number from where I used to live, not where I live now. So if I get a call from numbers with that prefix, I know it's a scam.

[Jim Becker]

I don't because my phone has a phone number from where I used to live, not where I live now. So if I get a call from numbers with that prefix, I know it's a scam.
Excellent point...there are many folks with numbers they have brought from other places with wireless service.