Should I get new stones?

[Matt Lau]

I'm planning out my new build-- a workbench.

Part of my process is assessing what tools I have, and what needs to be gotten.
Currently, I use a spyderco M/UF, mystery Japanese natural (from hida tool) and some random diamond plates.
Is that all I need?

I tend to over complicate things, so would appreciate knowing if I'm just being a knucklehead.

[David Bassett]

... Is that all I need? ....

I can't think what you'd sharpen on stones that set wouldn't handle. Really there are many workable solutions and most of the argument is about personal preference. (Faster, cleaner, more traditional, suitable for exotic steel, etc.)

[Jim Koepke]

If your tools are getting sharp enough for your work, then the stones you have are fine.

If your tools are not getting sharp enough for your work, then you need to determine if it is the stones or the user.

What is there in your sharpening needs that is not being addressed?

Everyone has something different in the make up of what their sharpening system needs to handle. Some can get it all done with just a few stones. Others need to work with tools other than just the basics for woodworking.

jtk

[john zulu]

I am not familiar with the stones you have but I have 2 sets. One shapton the other is Seuhiro. I work in 2 separate location hence I have 2. It really depends on your usage and target. Buying stones can never end as there is the next best thing out there. But if your stones can deliver live with them until it comes time to change them.

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for the input.

My problem is that I don't truly know what quantifies as "sharp."
Is there a good reference? I can get the end grain shavings off pine/spruce off my edges, but I don't know if it's sharp enough?
One of these days, I'll have to fly out to Brian or Stan to feel how sharp is "sharp enough."

Also, I was going to have a separate setup at my workshop (vs home/portable use).
I plan to do most of the really messy machining and dimensioning away from home.

-Matt

ps. I've been spooncarving, and working on a spokeshave blank. It's amazing how the wood will look "wet" once it's carved a certain way. Also, tap the LV spokeshave blank *before* carving it. :( I found out that I was doing it wrong.

[David Bassett]

... My problem is that I don't truly know what quantifies as "sharp." ...

I sympathize (being in the same boat) but, if you aren't getting sharp it isn't your stones. Too many people are successful with the set you've got for the stones to be preventing sharp. (Derek & George Wilson are two that spring to mind.)

[Matt Lau]

Yup. I got the stones after reading Derek and George's post.
I guess that I'll just keep using them for now...I'll spend the money on some wood for the workbench or a good vise.

[Jim Koepke]

My problem is that I don't truly know what quantifies as "sharp."
Is there a good reference? I can get the end grain shavings off pine/spruce off my edges, but I don't know if it's sharp enough?

This is a struggle for every woodworker. What seemed sharp to me 10 years ago would likely have me take a blade to the stones today.

If one is going to use a test to quantify sharpness, it must be repeatable.

There are a few qualifiers/quantifiers of sharpness that almost anyone can use.

For me how an edge will shave my arm hair tells me a lot about its sharpness. This method involves a bit of danger and may not be for everyone. People who use straight razors will likely feel more comfortable than others. A dull blade or one with nicks will pull the hair or just roll over the hair without cutting. A close to sharp blade may cut some hair but not all without any feel of hair being pulled. For a lot of work, other than fine paring, this will be okay. As the edge is more refined it will cut more hair without feeling it being cut. It will feel like the edge is rolling over the skin, but there will be no hair left in its path. After this any further sharpness is measured by what is known as the Hanging Hair Test (HHT) used by straight razor aficionados. If you are working with some hairy wood, further research on this might be in order.

Paring soft wood end grain is also a useful test. A sharp blade will sever the fibers on a thin shaving without causing any openings in the end grain left behind. Also with the end grain test any nicks or dull areas of the blade will leave evidence behind:

382396

In the image the arrows on the right are pointing at the light areas left by a nick or dull spot on the edge of the chisel being used. On the left the area pared by the chisel after sharpening are smooth without openings in the end grain. The wood here is alder which is fairly soft for what is technically a hardwood.

Being able to produce a fine controlled shaving is important for tight fitting joinery:

382398

In some cases a little care with a chisel is faster and easier than trying to trim with a shoulder plane.

Another popular method of quantifying sharpness is the push into paper test. This is perhaps the safest way to check for sharpness. As long as fingers and other flesh are kept out of the path of the blade there will likely be no mishaps.

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The less stiffness in the paper, the sharper the blade needs to be. Also, a slicing motion is kind of like cheating. To test sharpness it must be a straight push into the edge of the paper.

There are other methods one can use, but these are three that can be used without any special equipment or training. Each test will change overtime as one's skill at edge honing gets better. With the end grain test one will experience improved slicing action as sharpening abilities improve. With the paper test one will find less paper deflection as the edge becomes sharper.

None of these tests will put a number on the sharpness. For that calibrated string and method of measuring its deflection and edge pressure at the cut are needed and actually available. The measuring device may be a fun thing to have, but most of us can get through a project without having one in our shops.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the tips!
I'll use the paper test since I don't have arm hair.

[John C Cox]

If you want to try out more stones - then have at it.. There is nothing wrong with trying out a few more to see if one works considerably better than some others.

[Warren West]

You've got all the tools you need for nice sharp edges regardless of steel type, so you should be covered. If they meet your needs and determine your edges are sharp enough no need to change. I mean we can go on for 4 pages or more with recommendations if you wish ;) but I don't think you need them. Maybe add a strop and call it good.

[Brian Holcombe]

You should knock out a few projects first. It seems like one can forever buy new tools (something I rather enjoy the hell out of) but truly you should do the work until the point of frustration and overcome that with what’s on hand.

[Matt Lau]

I think that I'll buy some wood, and have some fun for now.

A few projects:
-proper workbench.
-proper case for Stan's chisels. My first good set.
- Maybe a discrete tool cabinet? I was going to look at midcentury modern designs for ideas.
- coffee table for mom.

Thanks, guys!

[john jesseph]

You should knock out a few projects first. It seems like one can forever buy new tools (something I rather enjoy the hell out of) but truly you should do the work until the point of frustration and overcome that with what’s on hand.

Advice I should take as well.

[Mike Holbrook]

You mention spoon carving and spokeshave above. Another consideration is what you may want to sharpen. Gouges, adzes, scorps, drawknives, axes....anything with a curved/different blade shape may require different sharpening stones/tools. Round, triangular, eliptical.....stones or slips may help with those tools. Spyderco actually offers round and triangular stones and slips.

The stones and plates you mention are great for sharpening, even working out nicks in those blades. You might want to save your money for some sort of grinder, maybe even CBN wheels. The grinder is about the only thing I can think of that will enhance your ability to “sharpen”. If you do not care about hollow grinding or grinding camber then you may not need the grinder. The value of hollow grinding is it can provide a sharper blade in record time with minimum effort.

I think Brian makes a good point, doing larger projects is often where you will discover personal issues with tools or sharpening mehtods.

[Randy Heinemann]

Good choice - to just go with what you have. I use a combination of diamond and water stones; diamond for the coarser grits and 4000 and 8000 Shapton Glass Stones for the final honing. The best advice I ever got was to pick a method and stick with it until you find it isn't serving your needs or you find a better one. Sticking with one method is the best way to get better at sharpening. Once I did that my chisels got much sharper.

[Warren West]

The best advice I ever got was to pick a method and stick with it until you find it isn't serving your needs or you find a better one. Sticking with one method is the best way to get better at sharpening. Once I did that my chisels got much sharper.

That is good advice. What I found personally is that once I was able to sharpen with one method successfully, beyond that the abrasive media didn't matter. I can use water stones, sandpaper, oilstones, diamond etc. At that point just let the tools kind of dictate. Really the following two points will guide you. 1. The shape of the tools. Plane blades and chisels are one thing, but curved carving tools and gravers are quite another. 2. The type of steel your tools are made of.