Kickback is real ( and powerful)

[Nick Schepis]

382339
This from a piece of 1X4 pine 8 inces long, from a benchtop table saw, right in the solar plexus. I'm convinced it could have achieved escape velocity with the proper launch angle. I will be MUCH more careful in the future.

[Ole Anderson]

Been there...

[Bryan Lisowski]

Ouch! So as not to have a future repeat, do you know why it happened?

[andy bessette]

Ouch! So as not to have a future repeat, do you know why it happened?

Not holding the workpiece down and against the fence.

[Nick Schepis]

In this particular instance, I was cutting a 3/8" deep groove (along the grain) in an 8" piece of 1X4.

The throat plate had apparently slightly settled so the corner of my piece got hung up on the lip before the cut was complete.

As I reached down to turn off the saw, I was not careful enough to keep the workpiece firmly in place until the blade underneath it fully stopped, and it caught and

382354

Bang Zoom!

I will always check the throat plate clearance AND use a larger push block with greater control than the flimsy one I was using.

[Mel Fulks]

Ole, Glad you survived that!! But I must say it gives you some perspective.....the wound is so deep you could set up a
diarama in there!

[Andrew Hughes]

I've had several like the one Ole shows. Underpowered job site saws are the worst bog the saw down then it launches wood back.

[Lee Schierer]

In this particular instance, I was cutting a 3/8" deep groove (along the grain) in an 8" piece of 1X4.

The throat plate had apparently slightly settled so the corner of my piece got hung up on the lip before the cut was complete.

As I reached down to turn off the saw, I was not careful enough to keep the workpiece firmly in place until the blade underneath it fully stopped, and it caught and

382354

Bang Zoom!

I will always check the throat plate clearance AND use a larger push block with greater control than the flimsy one I was using.

Any chance you can get a zero clearance insert for your TS?

Also when ripping you need to try to stand out of the firing line should a piece get caught and come back at you.

[James Pallas]

I've had a few kick backs over 55 years or so using table saws. Verticle and horizontal feather boards are your best friends. Keep them close at hand with the clamps you normally use. Very little time to set up for a lot of peace of mind. Of course machine set up is equally important. The only times I experienced kick backs was caused by lack of knowledge or pure a$$ laziness. the worst one was cutting a long mitre on white oak. The edge cut right thru a heavy leather belt and into me. 20,stitches later and kicking myself for acting stupid. Thank goodness for the belt and a chance to redeem myself and prevent more "accidents".
Jim

[Charlie Hinton]

Many years ago I had a kickback and got hit in the gut. It hit me hard and I felt fortunate to escape with a small cut and a significant bruise. Had to go to the library and find a book on tablesaws to figure out what had just happened.
I learned a lot about the correct way to operate a tablesaw from that experience.
Kickbacks can also drag your hand across the blade, so even when you think there's plenty of room between the blade and the fence it's a really good idea to use push blocks/sticks to push the wood through.
Glad you were not seriously injured.

[julian abram]

Ouch! On a positive note, it appears you still have all your fingers.:)

[lowell holmes]

I have push sticks that I made and use.

If you want to buy one, here is one link that will lead you to it. There are numerous other links as well, just google it.

http://www.rockler.com/search/go?asug=&w=table+saw+push+stick&Search.x=0&Search.y=0&sid=v9100&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%28roi%29%20product%20type%20-%20power%20tools&utm_content=table%20saw%20push%20stick&utm_term=table%20saw%20push%20stick&msclkid=9e107ffa1ac31cfc158d254239752594

[Tom Bender]

A foot switch may have saved you.

[Art Mann]

Push sticks make wicked projectiles too.

[Larry Frank]

For shorter pieces, I really like my Grrippers.

[Robert Hayward]

Kickbacks can also drag your hand across the blade,

Been there and did that. 14 years old in 1961 making bee hive supers. Using a wobble dado blade to cut the rabbit for the wax frames to hang from. The blade was so dull it was smoking. Hit a knot and the board tried to go backwards toward me. My right hand was on the far end of the wood and I pushed down hard to stop the board from going backwards. Pulled my hand right across the blade severing my right thumb except for a small section of skin on the back of my hand.

I was fortunate to have parents that had the means to take me to a place that reattached the thumb. The knuckle never did work after that, just flopped around. Two years later back to the hospital, this time at the University of Michigan. They fused the knuckle so my thumb is like a metal rod. At least I still have the thumb, but I have lived my entire adult life with that reminder.

On a side note the board hit me in the chest and knocked the wind out of me. At the hospital while the doctor was planning how to handle my thumb and I was laying there without a shirt on he asked what was in my chest. Huh ? A button from the flannel shirt I was wearing was embedded in my breast plate.

I have had a couple kickbacks since, but I have never been hit again and no, it never slowed me down from woodworking.

Bob

[Chris Parks]

Push sticks make wicked projectiles too.

I wouldn't use one for a bet, unstable and dangerous things but people seem to think that if their hands are far away from the blade then they are totally safe. I will get off my soapbox now and sorry for the diversion.

[Lee Schierer]

I have push sticks that I made and use.

If you want to buy one, here is one link that will lead you to it. There are numerous other links as well, just google it.

http://www.rockler.com/search/go?asug=&w=table+saw+push+stick&Search.x=0&Search.y=0&sid=v9100&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%28roi%29%20product%20type%20-%20power%20tools&utm_content=table%20saw%20push%20stick&utm_term=table%20saw%20push%20stick&msclkid=9e107ffa1ac31cfc158d254239752594

A better design of push stick.382366 Pushing on the back of a board with a forked stick will tend to lift the front end of the piece. My design reaches far enough forward to prevent the front lifting.

[Ole Anderson]

I've had several like the one Ole shows. Underpowered job site saws are the worst bog the saw down then it launches wood back. Slow learner there Andrew?;)

[Andrew Hughes]

Slow learner there Andrew?;)

Yes sir. The only way to learn is the hard way.:p

[Andrew Seemann]

Back when I was 17 and young and stupid (well, stupider at least), I was free handing a piece of 3/4 inch plywood on the old man's 2 hp craftsman 10" saw. I think the reason I was free handing it was because it was a 26"x26" piece and the fence only went to 24"; teenage logic at its best.

As I got to the end of the cut, I didn't remember to push the sides apart and ended up pinching the back of the cut. It launched back at me, hit me in the stomach at the same time the momentum pushed the far end board up at my face, so I grabbed it to keep it from hitting me in the face. Since the board knocked the wind out of me when I caught it, I dropped it. . . . . . . right back into the blade, which promptly launched it right back into my stomach. That time I fortunately had the good sense to fall to the ground and whimper in the fetal position for the next 15 minutes, rather than get hit him the stomach again and again.

That was the last time I ever freehanded on a tablesaw.

[Andrew Hughes]

Now that's funny Andrew.

[Rick Alexander]

I had a pretty nasty one from ripping a crooked 2x4 when I was about 16. Not again until the last two years I've had 3 in that span. 2 from trying to rip 1/4 inch drawer bottoms (need riving knife and to pay attention) and one trying to adjust a tenon attachment on my TS using too short a setup board and not tightening the hold down good enough. That one would have done some serious damage if I hadn't had a sweatshirt, t shirt, and thick shirt on to protect my belly. Still left a very nasty bruise and cut on my belly - could have measured the tenon size on my skin cuts. 40 years since my first one and 3 in two years. I'm still learning I guess.

[Jerome Stanek]

I had one just before my sons wedding 11 stitches doing a project for his wedding cutting a dado and it kicked back. I did finish after I had the stitches but didn't want to shake hands at the wedding.

[Stan Calow]

This makes a good excuse for that extra padding I carry around the waist.

[Al Launier]

[QUOTE=Nick Schepis;2794367]In this particular instance, I was cutting a 3/8" deep groove (along the grain) in an 8" piece of 1X4.
The throat plate had apparently slightly settled so the corner of my piece got hung up on the lip before the cut was complete.
...... "As I reached down to turn off the saw, I was not careful enough to keep the workpiece firmly in place until the blade underneath it fully stopped, and it caught and Bang Zoom!"

Sorry to hear of your incident & glad it wasn't more serious. Imagine if it had hit you in the eyes.
Not to belabor the point, but I would like to recommend the use of a Paddle Emergency Stop Switch. I place mine on the LH side so I can shut off the motor with my knee. I've used this a number of times. I believe it's a great safety feature.
http://www.grizzly.com/search/?q=(stop+AND+switch)+OR+(stop+OR+switch)

[Charlie Hinton]

This makes a good excuse for that extra padding I carry around the waist.

I have some decorative padding too 😀

[Marc Rochkind]

It would be useful to know what, if any anti-kickback devices were in place. Riving blade? Any sort of kerf separator at all? Blade guard with anti-kickback claws?

My understanding of kickback is that it occurs when the upward-traveling (rearward) teeth grab the wood. Is that what happened in this case? Or something else which you're referring to as "kickback"?

[Jerry Wright]

Local urgent care doctor says kick back injuries ate his most common saw injury - way more prevalent than finger cuts. And yes, my stomach has loomed like some of these images before.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Not to belabor the point, but I would like to recommend the use of a Paddle Emergency Stop Switch. I place mine on the LH side so I can shut off the motor with my knee. I've used this a number of times. I believe it's a great safety feature.
http://www.grizzly.com/search/?q=(stop+AND+switch)+OR+(stop+OR+switch)

Excellent idea, Al. I had one on my old cabinet saw such that I could just tap it with my upper thigh when standing to the left of the blade. VERY handy.

[andrew whicker]

Back when I was 17 and young and stupid (well, stupider at least), I was free handing a piece of 3/4 inch plywood on the old man's 2 hp craftsman 10" saw. I think the reason I was free handing it was because it was a 26"x26" piece and the fence only went to 24"; teenage logic at its best.

As I got to the end of the cut, I didn't remember to push the sides apart and ended up pinching the back of the cut. It launched back at me, hit me in the stomach at the same time the momentum pushed the far end board up at my face, so I grabbed it to keep it from hitting me in the face. Since the board knocked the wind out of me when I caught it, I dropped it. . . . . . . right back into the blade, which promptly launched it right back into my stomach. That time I fortunately had the good sense to fall to the ground and whimper in the fetal position for the next 15 minutes, rather than get hit him the stomach again and again.

That was the last time I ever freehanded on a tablesaw.

Some of the best stuff goes unrecorded (video).

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah, certainly the downside of recording your work is that you catch the stuff you’d prefer not to record, like my full swing hammer strikes which are 99.5% accurate.

[Simon MacGowen]

Anyone interested in learning more about tablesaw accidents or incidents (non-graphic) can check out the Appendix B in this formal study (2014): https://library.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2015/02/UL_WhitePapers_Tablesaw_V11.pdf

The sample incidents cover people as young as 14 and as old as 90.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

Excellent idea, Al. I had one on my old cabinet saw such that I could just tap it with my upper thigh when standing to the left of the blade. VERY handy.

This helps unfortunately ONLY when you sense something wrong or something bad is going to happen and therefore you have TIME to react to prevent that from happening. In many incidents, there might not be even a split second to respond.

See the Appendix B (link provided in another post of mine) for the many examples of cuts and kickbacks in which time was simply not available to hit the Stop Button or Paddle, if there was one.

No manual switch or method would be fast enough to save one from being "kicked" or cut if an incident happens, I am afraid.

Simon

[Justin Ludwig]

I don't understand why people stand behind the blade (in the line of fire) when dealing with small parts. Wait, that's not true. I fully understand why they do it.

[Chris Parks]

I have never had an actual kickback but it hurt never the less and taught me two lessons in one go. I ripped a piece of timber and after I had finished cutting I reached to pick up one of the pieces from behind the blade, it slipped out of my fingers and dropped onto the blade that was still spinning and the timber hit me in the chest, lesson one learned. The other lesson I learned from it was never reach for timber across the top of a still spinning saw blade, if your arm through some misfortune was to fall onto the blade it would not be nice. I see people on YT doing exactly this all the time and I am no safety policeman but it makes me shudder at what could happen.

[Rod Sheridan]

Chris, your post is exactly why you always need a crown guard on a saw.................Regards, Rod.

[Chris Parks]

Chris, your post is exactly why you always need a crown guard on a saw.................Regards, Rod.

No argument there at all but it can't be used on some saws when the fence has to be very close to the guard. I fixed the problem forever a short time later and bought a slider. No problem with kickback or fingers getting chopped off at all.

[Al Launier]

This helps unfortunately ONLY when you sense something wrong or something bad is going to happen and therefore you have TIME to react to prevent that from happening. In many incidents, there might not be even a split second to respond.

See the Appendix B (link provided in another post of mine) for the many examples of cuts and kickbacks in which time was simply not available to hit the Stop Button or Paddle, if there was one.

No manual switch or method would be fast enough to save one from being "kicked" or cut if an incident happens, I am afraid.

Simon

I totally agree, but if memory serves me right the OP stated (I think before he edited it) that he was in that "mode", i.e. trying to hold the workpiece while reaching for the switch.

[John Gornall]

When I started in the shop in 1963 the boss said don't touch a table saw until I say so. After a few days of sweeping sawdust he introduced me to the table saw. He cut thin pieces of wood to a taper on the bandsaw and standing behind a table saw pulled them between blade and fence until they kicked back and hit the big steel doors 20 feet away. He suggested it was better that a kickback didn't go thru me on it's way to the doors. Then he demoed what he called "spinback". He stood behind the saw and dropped 8 inch squares of plywood onto the blade. He fired them all over the shop. He was quite good and I later found out they once had a competition with targets before they decided it was too dangerous. He made the point that spinback with small pieces was the most likely cause of lost fingers when pushing small pieces thru. He actually took safety very seriously and was proud that there was never lost body parts in the life of the shop.

[Mark Hennebury]

When I started in the shop in 1963 the boss said don't touch a table saw until I say so. After a few days of sweeping sawdust he introduced me to the table saw. He cut thin pieces of wood to a taper on the bandsaw and standing behind a table saw pulled them between blade and fence until they kicked back and hit the big steel doors 20 feet away. He suggested it was better that a kickback didn't go thru me on it's way to the doors. Then he demoed what he called "spinback". He stood behind the saw and dropped 8 inch squares of plywood onto the blade. He fired them all over the shop. He was quite good and I later found out they once had a competition with targets before they decided it was too dangerous. He made the point that spinback with small pieces was the most likely cause of lost fingers when pushing small pieces thru. He actually took safety very seriously and was proud that there was never lost body parts in the life of the shop.

A good way to show the power and speed with which and accident can happen, and situations that may cause it.

[glenn bradley]

Always good to share this stuff. No matter how many hours you have on a saw there is always the possibility of doing something incorrectly. So often the story contains "I just had to make this one cut" or something like that. It is easy to get jaded on procedural safety but, the machine can be very unforgiving. I have a sign in my shop, "These machines have no brain, use yours", as a reminder.

Some of us are lucky. We experience kickback as if it is some sort of magic trick. The material is at the blade and then . . . it is just gone. It magically reappears sticking out of the door (or the rear quarter panel of the car for those of you who put cars inside workshops). The less lucky are in the line of trajectory. I should mention that standing out of the "line of fire" is good practice but, kickbacks do not always follow that line. Those of you who got nailed while standing to the side or who have had thrown pieces end up in odd places know of what I speak ;-)

[Rod Sheridan]

No argument there at all but it can't be used on some saws when the fence has to be very close to the guard. I fixed the problem forever a short time later and bought a slider. No problem with kickback or fingers getting chopped off at all.

That's an effective way to solve the problem Chris, I did the same thing.

When I had a cabinet saw I made a guard that was a simple piece of Lexan that attached to the top of the fence for those narrow cuts........Rod.

[Tom Bender]

So I took steps;

1. Added a foot switch

2. replaced drive with a variable speed 1800 rpm motor (tip speed 20 to 50 mph instead of 100 mph)

3. Big Balsa push block can not kick back

[andy bessette]

...replaced drive with a variable speed 1800 rpm motor (tip speed 20 to 50 mph instead of 100 mph)...

Waste of money on this one. And no safer, as far as I know.

[Pat Barry]

So I took steps;

1. Added a foot switch

2. replaced drive with a variable speed 1800 rpm motor (tip speed 20 to 50 mph instead of 100 mph)

3. Big Balsa push block can not kick back
I don t know the logic for a slower rotation speed for the saw. If anything it will cause the saw to work harder, cut less effectively, cause you to be pushing harder??
I think I would want it to run faster. Whete did the slower / variable speed idea come from?

[Bill Dufour]

I remember Jr High woodshop with Mr Higgley. Who played football in college. He showed us some dents on the steel skinned door and explained the tablesaw kicked back and fired some pieces into the door a good 20 feet away. I also remember when Jeff J. did something stupid in shop one day. He picked him up by his shirt collar and slammed him into the lockers with his feet more then one foot off the floor. Then he loudly lectured at him not to do that again and why it was dangerous. We all payed attention.
We liked him and he was a good teacher he said he liked to go the shop teacher conventions and sit in cozy seats and eat peanuts. He also said the principal was after him to wear a tie and he and the other shop teacher were the only two men who were exempt for safety reasons.

[Simon MacGowen]

I don t know the logic for a slower rotation speed for the saw. If anything it will cause the saw to work harder, cut less effectively, cause you to be pushing harder??
I think I would want it to run faster. Whete did the slower / variable speed idea come from?

I have heard about this slower speed idea before in the name of a better life for the blade, though I have never seen or known such set up in operation. No tablesaw manuals or books I have read have recommended tampering with the motor for safety reasons.

Slower is better? I don't think so. An underpowered saw is something I would avoid as a saw that slows down a lot during cutting is more likely to bind and kick the work piece back toward the operator.

Simon

[Steve Jenkins]

The shop that was next door to me years ago had a 4’ piece of 2x4 sticking through the wall into their break room. It was left there as a reminder of a kickback. That wall was about 20 fest from the table saw and the 2 x was about 1’ to the left of where a guy was sitting.

[Steve Demuth]

I find it interesting that we have so many kickback threads related to table saws here, but rarely with respect to routers and shapers. I've had more high speed wood projectile incidents from absent-mindedly walking a workpiece into a climb cut or end-grain cut when pattern routing than any other cause. I've had to institute a deliberate routine of a 10-20 second "time out" before any pattern routing during which I mentally walk through the cut to be sure I don't launch yet another wooden bullet across the shop.

[Randal Blair]

I've had to institute a deliberate routine of a 10-20 second "time out" before any pattern routing during which I mentally walk through the cut to be sure I don't launch yet another wooden bullet across the shop.

that right there is great advice.

[Rod Sheridan]

So I took steps;

1. Added a foot switch

2. replaced drive with a variable speed 1800 rpm motor (tip speed 20 to 50 mph instead of 100 mph)

3. Big Balsa push block can not kick back

Hi Tom, the risk of kickback greatly increases with cutter speeds below approximately 40m/s.

That's approximately 8,000 ft/m.

For a 10 inch diameter saw that results in a minimum RPM of approximately 3,000.

Be careful reducing your cutter speed below 40m/s, you may wind up with more kickbacks................Rod.

[fRED mCnEILL]

My saw has the switch lower down on the cabinet and I mounted a homemade paddle to the switch which I can kick with my foot for situations like this. Cost=$0.00..In addition, since I started faithfully using a splitter (actually a non moving riving knife) a few years ago I have NOT had a kickbacK. Once the piece is adjacent to the splitter a kickback is unlikely.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I've had to institute a deliberate routine of a 10-20 second "time out" before any pattern routing during which I mentally walk through the cut to be sure I don't launch yet another wooden bullet across the shop. After a couple of shaky table saw incidents and almost ripping open my forearm with a chisel, I started following that same approach for just about anything I do when working with a bladed tool.

[Jacob Reverb]

Also when ripping you need to try to stand out of the firing line should a piece get caught and come back at you.

x100

I've seen pics taken by a guy who was ripping big long skinny pieces...he had a kickback and the "spear" went through a pickup truck tailgate that was behind the saw.

I try to never stand behind the blade.