Bugged about the Hole thing!

[Roger Chandler]

Toss it, or design opportunity?

This piece of sycamore started out 24" wide on the end in the other pic below. Cut the corners off and mounted on a face plate. Got it to what you see here.
I turned away lots of wood, and as you can see the tenon area has holes as well as the bottom. I think there is enough wood to turn off most of the holes, I hope! [I actually found one worm/larvae nearly 4" long in the thing! ] and then make a more shallow platter type vessel. Do you think its worth it?
Me & this sycamore tree don't have a good history, as the last large piece I turned from it had a chunk come off it and hit me in the faceshield! [about 3 years ago, maybe 3 1/2]
As it is in this roughout state, it is right at 18" diameter.

382283 382284 The blank was certainly unbalanced, and the G0800 did a good job with it. My floor is an issue with vibration, as it is 3/4" plywood over 2x4 joists, and that sits on top of a gravel pad. My shop is a 14x20 utility shed.

The G0800 has torque to spare with the low rpms needed when getting this blank to round!

[Tony De Masi]

Personally I would proceed as normal and just fill enough of those holes in the bottom to assist with vacuum chucking during finish turning, IF they indeed turn out to be through and through holes.

[John K Jordan]

Toss it, or design opportunity?
...I think there is enough wood to turn off most of the holes, I hope! ...

My floor is an issue with vibration, as it is 3/4" plywood over 2x4 joists, and that sits on top of a gravel pad. My shop is a 14x20 utility shed.

I don't turn wood with cracks but maybe they don't reach the bowl. (The blank almost looks like the end grain is not sealed.?) but I'm not sure I'd worry about any of the worm holes since any and all add a certain look a piece that lots of people like. When offered a choice of gifts from things I turn, those with worm holes are in demand. The face shield will keep grub parts out of your eyes. :) I would be concerned about a chunk smashing my face if the integrity of the wood is questionable. Also, the tenon looks a bit "crumbly". Perhaps use the safety cage if your lathe came with one. A friend of mine often turned things that would otherwise fly apart except for his method - turn the outside, then wrap the piece in strapping tape before turning the inside.

As for the shed can you jack it up and add some concrete pads? Or force some between the gravel and joists in several places? Or sledge hammer some wide PT wedges under the 2x4s in a few places? Add some additional joist support underneath, such as 4x4s? Fasten another layer of 3/4" ply on top the floor? If key floor panels under the lathe position could be removed reinforcement might be done easily. None of these may be practical, just wild ideas without seeing or knowing more about the shed. If the shed is portable I would consider moving it, pouring a slab, then sliding it back.

JKJ

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks John...as for the shed, well I hope to not be in it in a couple more years! I think with all that is involved, I'll just live with the issue till I can get a bigger shop in my new location.

I would not have even begun this piece had I not fully believed, based on experience that the integrity of the blank would warrant proceeding. The holes are just too much in my opinion, and some of them do go deeper, so they do affect the tenon area, so I will turn enough away to give me a solid tenon and maybe only a few holes if I decide to finish this one....I'm just trying to decide if its worth it or not.

One bowl I have at the gallery now is ambrosia maple and it has a lot of holes like this, and not much interest has been shown by the customers who take interest in wooden bowls. I did fill some of them on that bowl, but it in my opinion just does not have the look of wood without all those holes..........that may be my own hangup, however! ;)

The ends were sealed with anchorseal, and that piece that flew off had ring shake, not visible to the eye, so that was a bit of a surprise! :eek:

[Roger Chandler]

Personally I would proceed as normal and just fill enough of those holes in the bottom to assist with vacuum chucking during finish turning, IF they indeed turn out to be through and through holes.

Hey Tony! I don't think this one will be a candidate for vacuum chucking!

[John K Jordan]

...One bowl I have at the gallery now is ambrosia maple and it has a lot of holes like this, and not much interest has been shown by the customers who take interest in wooden bowls. ...

The shop at my last place was a 16x16 shed about 7' off the ground at the back corner, but we used 2x10 joists under ply floor on nine 6x6 braced posts so the vibration wasn't bad. I built my current shop 24x62 on a concrete slab - it was worth waiting for!

Another option on the bowl might be turn away the tenon and mount a faceplate on the bottom - should hold better than a tenon. Even a recess should hold better than an iffy tenon.

However, if there was ring shake in a previous piece from the same tree I know what I'd do - quit while I was ahead! In my experience if there is ring shake in one part of the tree it is likely in other parts, especially if on the same side and not too far away. About as strong as plywood without glue. :(

You might have liked some of the big ambrosia maple I had recently. Spectacular and sound. If I can get some more it might be worth a road trip if you are looking for wood.

I should have said that the wormy pieces I've had were not bowls but smaller things, like this from persimmon:

382285

"Magic" wands and other things I made from some of my wormy chestnut stock were popular.

382286

JKJ

[david privett]

I got some sycamore butt about 6 ft. and over 20 inches dia. , may be spaulted I do not think any worms I was just thinking of putting it on the saw mill and make some blanks come and get some of it, I got to much.

[robert baccus]

Turn away the tenon and glueblock it with thick CA. I,ve done hundreds this way--it holds on crappy wood well and you can reinforce it with thin CA if critical. Oh yeah--charge extra for the holes.

[Dennis Ford]

I agree with Bob on the glue block, it will stronger than an integral tenon. IMO, if you can't accept bug holes as features, don't waste your time on this chunk of wood.

[Roger Chandler]

I decided to cut the most of the holes away, which in doing so revealed even more, deeper and bigger worm tracks, so I did manage to get a platter type form from this big piece of wood. Its in the chuck now for sanding, and when that is completed, I will reverse it to take off the substantial tenon. The figure in the wood diminished a bit as this got to the finished form, which turned away most of the spalting. I don’t plan on too much more effort in this piece beyond getting it finish sanded, and put a finish on it.

I do think it will be good enough to put it in the gallery.

[richard shelby]

I turned some oak with beetle larvae galleries like a Swiss cheese, complete with live critters (and guts) slinging against my faceplate. Strangely, these turned out kinda cute. I made small "cups" full of holes and put a battery votive candle in two of them. They were the first to sell at the craft show. Sorry no pictures available.

[John C Cox]

How do you guys deal with killing off whatever remaining nasties are still alive in the piece?

[Barry McFadden]

How do you guys deal with killing off whatever remaining nasties are still alive in the piece?

I stick it in the microwave first...

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I would not have cut all that wood away Roger, I probably would have used a recess to hold it, and if I didn’t trust the wood, a shallow recess with a glue block in it would certainly hold it.

It would probably be a bit of a challenge to get a nice clean cut, but that makes for a better turner with more experience :).

I’ve turned some wormy wood, and they all found new homes, not all bowls have to hold soup you know, they are good to look at and also for fruit or other things, see I trust women to find a use for anything they like :D.

Have a look, even if you don’t like these, I’m sure they do look better than a bunch of shavings on the floor ;), they do to me :).

3 different wormy Maple bowls.
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3 pictures of a wormy sugar bowl, with 2 kinds of wood worm holes, larger on one side and small ones on the other side.
382578382579382580

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Thanks Leo for the pics of your bowls...some of them are worse than this sycamore! Our experience here in this area and at the galleries we show at, things with all those bug holes do not sell, and end up taking up valuable space in the gallery for no purpose.

This sycamore is a fairly plain piece, and has nothing to make it an eye catcher other than its size which is now 16.75" diameter after turning away most of the holes/tracks. There are a few left, and they are filled now. Finish is Mahoney's walnut oil. Pretty much a utilitarian piece, if ever there was one. Just thought I'd show the end result, so....

382590 382591 382592

[Don Frank]

Whether you saturate the tennon with thinned epoxy or turn it away and glue a block, that is an easy fix. I'd go ahead and finish turning the bowl. A few hours of extra work at this point is worth it, even if the results are disappointing. I wouldn't take the time to fill the holes though. They tell part of the story.
Sycamore seems prone to ring shake and I have had a few that lost chunks. Since then, I don't turn anything that I can see visible ring shake. I love turning good sycamore though.

[Roger Chandler]

Whether you saturate the tennon with thinned epoxy or turn it away and glue a block, that is an easy fix. I'd go ahead and finish turning the bowl. A few hours of extra work at this point is worth it, even if the results are disappointing. I wouldn't take the time to fill the holes though. They tell part of the story.
Sycamore seems prone to ring shake and I have had a few that lost chunks. Since then, I don't turn anything that I can see visible ring shake. I love turning good sycamore though.

Not sure if you saw the last post I made, where I had turned off most of the bug/worm holes/tracks, but managed a platter form. Not a pretty piece of wood for sure, but I put a nice form on it, so I think it is a good use of that particular piece of sycamore log.

[John K Jordan]

...Not a pretty piece of wood for sure, but I put a nice form on it...

That might be an opportunity hide the wood and accentuate the form with some matte black paint. Might look pretty classy with the worm holes.

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Thanks Leo for the pics of your bowls...some of them are worse than this sycamore! Our experience here in this area and at the galleries we show at, things with all those bug holes do not sell, and end up taking up valuable space in the gallery for no purpose.

This sycamore is a fairly plain piece, and has nothing to make it an eye catcher other than its size which is now 16.75" diameter after turning away most of the holes/tracks. There are a few left, and they are filled now. Finish is Mahoney's walnut oil. Pretty much a utilitarian piece, if ever there was one. Just thought I'd show the end result, so....



I certainly do not like the looks you got with the oil you put on it and the finish of the wood Roger.

Sycamore is at least as interesting as hard Maple and some other woods IMO, especially if you cut the wood so it shows the fleck of the rays it has in there, even if only on part of the bowl, spalting is also nice in it.

I do finish sand it to a higher grit and get a nice surface on it, Walnut oil I don’t like, the stuff doesn’t polymerize for months, and even then it is barely harder than a hard wax.

Compare your bowl and finish with what I get on mine, yes you can do better :).

382623 382621 382622 382624

[david privett]

I did put that sycamore log on the mill ,blanks are 17 inches wide and 7.5 inches deep any one want one let me know and come get one or two.

[John K Jordan]

I did put that sycamore log on the mill ,blanks are 17 inches wide and 7.5 inches deep any one want one let me know and come get one or two.

Did you see any spalting?

I'm sorely tempted by your offer, you are "right down the road." Better judgement is prevailing, though, since things don't get any busier than spring time at the farm! (And my Lovely Bride is in the middle of directing eight home remodeling projects...)

JKJ

[William C Rogers]

I certainly do not like the looks you got with the oil you put on it and the finish of the wood Roger.

Sycamore is at least as interesting as hard Maple and some other woods IMO, especially if you cut the wood so it shows the fleck of the rays it has in there, even if only on part of the bowl, spalting is also nice in it.

I do finish sand it to a higher grit and get a nice surface on it, Walnut oil I don’t like, the stuff doesn’t polymerize for months, and even then it is barely harder than a hard wax.

Compare your bowl and finish with what I get on mine, yes you can do better :).

382623 382621 382622 382624

What finish are you using Leo?

[david privett]

John ,there is some slight spalting just enough for character , there is another ssycamore log we can half to see what is in it too if you wish it is larger diameter and 12 ft.+ long. I was gonna make boards out of it anyway.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

What finish are you using Leo?

Bill I use Polymerized Tung Oil on most all of my turnings, I buy it at Lee Valley, quite expensive compared to most of these other finishes that are mostly just thinners and volatiles in the 80% area of volume.

With the PTO it is, a little goes a long way :)