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View Full Version : NOW, I get it! A moment of neander nirvana



Matt Lau
03-23-2018, 2:59 PM
Yesterday, I had neander nirvana.

After doing a dental presentation for two large groups of second graders, I went to my workshop for the first time in months.
I found my Craigslist unidentified Japanese hand plane...
There was my sushi chef friend's parent's 30-40 year old cutting board (3 feet x 16 in x 2 in thick slab of wood) that was warped about 14 mm each side.

I figured...what the heck?

A few hours later, I got the board in usable shape.
It was really amazing to see pitted, fuzzy, uneven wood start to look better than new!

All I used was the no-name plane, a Mujinfang polishing plane, and a stray fretboard blank as a leveling stick...and a Blum workbench and bench dog...no router sled. No electric planer. No micrometer. No apron. Not much noise or dust. Just glorious shavings. My dust control was a broom and a horsehair brush...and the winds of freedom.


Now I totally get it.

-Matt

ps. Thanks for putting up with my silliness in the meantime. Stressing over what steel, what's cheaper, etc. Most of my former posts were pretty pointless.

pps. What do you guys find as your moments of Neander nirvana?

Mike Baker 2
03-23-2018, 3:13 PM
For me it's the sound a plane makes as it's taking fine shavings off a piece of wood. Lovely, and really hard to beat.

Prashun Patel
03-23-2018, 3:14 PM
I still have them more and more: Two days ago I was struggling with how to put a 7 degree taper along the face of a 7/8" board. Planer sled? Upright on the table saw? Before I could say "featherboard" or "doublesided tape" I had the piece on the workbench, marked, and jointed with a #7.

The biggest moments of revelation are realizing that "this isn't exactly 7 degrees? No matter, I'll just plane the mating pieces to match".

Sneaking up on the fit feels so much less stressful to me than machine set up. I still do both.

brian zawatsky
03-23-2018, 4:56 PM
A big one for me was realizing that what I thought was “sharp” was really only “not so dull” once I learned how to sharpen well. I slogged along with SiC paper on glass for a few years and it was such a PITA I found myself accepting mediocrity in the condition of my edge tools. Once I learned better technique & later switched to water stones the light bulb really came on.
Another one was when I completed our dining table a few years ago. The build wasn’t entirely hand tools only, but the majority of the joinery was cut by hand. It’s not perfect. But it came out nice and (most importantly) my wife loves it. It taught me that I don’t need .001 precision to build something aesthetically pleasing and perfectly functional.

Frederick Skelly
03-23-2018, 5:36 PM
The first time I got my plane perfectly dialed-in and sharpened well enough to get shavings that were 0.003" thick. I usually get better now, but I get the same thrill every time.

Another nirvana comes on those still-rare occasions when my dovetails fit sweetly right off the saw.

Matt Lau
03-23-2018, 8:16 PM
Dude, I still need to do my first real dovetail or mortise and tenon.

A part of me wants to just go to ikea and buy a desk (since I really need one).
Another part of me wants to laminate a top, through dovetail the ends, and make a trestle base.

Frederick Skelly
03-23-2018, 9:19 PM
A part of me wants to just go to ikea and buy a desk (since I really need one). Another part of me wants to laminate a top, through dovetail the ends, and make a trestle base.

Why not build your desk, but simplify construction? Buy a laminated top (here's one example (https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80301136/)) and make a base using simple joinery. Build it in a way that you can slide a couple 2 drawer file cabinets underneath. This will be more satisfying than Ikea, without killing you on time or skills. Later, after your finances and skills allow, build the magnificent desk you deserve for all your hard work.

If you take it in small bites, you can do this Matt!
Fred

Brian Holcombe
03-24-2018, 12:37 AM
For me it is success over challenging circumstances, not always on a grand scale but minor success and imrovrnents can really perk up the action. For hand tools, I think it does not get better than a Kanna in yellow cedar, if it does maybe pulling a big shaving with a wooden try plane.

Derek Cohen
03-24-2018, 1:22 AM
What do you guys find as your moments of Neander nirvana?

About 25 years ago I was installing doors in our newly built house. My tool of choice was a Makita power plane ... you know, the one that sounds like a jet plane taking off. Tonic for the eardrums.

Anyway, the blade was dull and it was the weekend and late, so the stores were all closed. I remembered my late FILs Stanley #3 lying on a shelf. Amazingly, for a plane that had not been used in many years and one I had never used before, it began to produce wonderful (so it seemed at the time) shavings, in silence (well, I thought I heard violins in the background ...). No turning back from then on :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Stanley Covington
03-24-2018, 1:36 AM
For me (at last the earliest I can remember) was the first time all 200+ pieces of a double-layered mentori sliding glass door with a kamahozo top rail joint came together without any hiccups. Nothing has scared me since.

Patrick Chase
03-24-2018, 3:40 AM
For me it was discovering that I could finally saw straight enough "on autopilot" for 99% of joinery tasks.

Mark Rainey
03-24-2018, 10:57 AM
A big one for me was realizing that what I thought was “sharp” was really only “not so dull” once I learned how to sharpen well. I slogged along with SiC paper on glass for a few years and it was such a PITA I found myself accepting mediocrity in the condition of my edge tools. Once I learned better technique & later switched to water stones the light bulb really came on.
Another one was when I completed our dining table a few years ago. The build wasn’t entirely hand tools only, but the majority of the joinery was cut by hand. It’s not perfect. But it came out nice and (most importantly) my wife loves it. It taught me that I don’t need .001 precision to build something aesthetically pleasing and perfectly functional.
Good point Brian. Recently I visited a clock museum and was admiring the beautiful pieces. As an intermediate woodworker I examined these fine pieces made by hand by skilled craftsmen over two hundred years ago. I was surprised ( & delighted ) to find irregularities I might find embarrassing on my ideal project. There were areas of end grain tear out, hand carved molding that got a little wacky, and arcs that strayed just a bit. It gave me the confidence to do more. Hand made, not machine perfect. While there are masters in this forum that exceed this level, I am glad to make furniture that most think is beautiful.

Jerry Olexa
03-24-2018, 11:56 PM
I love the sound of a plane when it is performing as it should...Usually related to sharpness and adjustment...

Matt Lau
03-25-2018, 12:58 AM
Why not build your desk, but simplify construction? Buy a laminated top (here's one example (https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80301136/)) and make a base using simple joinery. Build it in a way that you can slide a couple 2 drawer file cabinets underneath. This will be more satisfying than Ikea, without killing you on time or skills. Later, after your finances and skills allow, build the magnificent desk you deserve for all your hard work.

If you take it in small bites, you can do this Matt!
Fred

Thanks for the tip!

My mom told me to just use our spare folding table, and focus on finding a good wife instead.
I'll work on baby steps first (making a workbench, making a slab coffee table)...and work my way up.
Maybe by then, I'll be married and "too practical" for this stuff. I hope I'll get to still do this.

Anyways, I'll probably never do Stan's sliding door, but it's something to work towards.

Nathan Johnson
03-25-2018, 9:10 AM
Thanks for the tip!

My mom told me to just use our spare folding table, and focus on finding a good wife instead.
I'll work on baby steps first (making a workbench, making a slab coffee table)...and work my way up.
Maybe by then, I'll be married and "too practical" for this stuff. I hope I'll get to still do this.

Anyways, I'll probably never do Stan's sliding door, but it's something to work towards.

Any woman that wouldn't want you to continue in this hobby is not wife material.

glenn bradley
03-25-2018, 10:52 AM
Hitting the sweet spot with a spoke shave.

Brian AdamsMS
03-26-2018, 1:59 AM
Sometimes a sweeter moment is seeing someone else have their own ah-ha moment.

My beautiful bride has supported my woodworking 'hobby' for years but she has never been one to participate. This past week we have been doing some small renovations in our house. We needed to take down some shelving brackets that had maybe a hundred sheet rock screws. She says she'll get the cordless drill... I say Ill go grab my brace and throw a Phillips bit in it. 2 minutes later I return with brace in hand ready to go, She asks where the charger is, can you just plug it in, do we have a 'thing-a-ma-jig' for screws? :rolleyes: . So I start pulling screws using the brace, she watches for about 3 screws and asks to try. I hand over the brace and watch one of the most beautiful sights ever... Maybe just maybe Ill get her in the workshop and try out a plane or two :D

william sympson
03-26-2018, 5:38 AM
...when I finally figured out the combination of variables to use the cap iron to prevent tear out regardless of grain direction or species.

R/
William

Matt Lau
03-26-2018, 11:49 AM
Sometimes a sweeter moment is seeing someone else have their own ah-ha moment.

My beautiful bride has supported my woodworking 'hobby' for years but she has never been one to participate. This past week we have been doing some small renovations in our house. We needed to take down some shelving brackets that had maybe a hundred sheet rock screws. She says she'll get the cordless drill... I say Ill go grab my brace and throw a Phillips bit in it. 2 minutes later I return with brace in hand ready to go, She asks where the charger is, can you just plug it in, do we have a 'thing-a-ma-jig' for screws? :rolleyes: . So I start pulling screws using the brace, she watches for about 3 screws and asks to try. I hand over the brace and watch one of the most beautiful sights ever... Maybe just maybe Ill get her in the workshop and try out a plane or two :D

High five!

I can definitely vouch that a plane is great.
You may also want to introduce her to a Yankee Screwdriver.
It's the most hand thing ever for ikea and doing tons of screws without stripping them.

Matt Lau
03-26-2018, 11:53 AM
Any woman that wouldn't want you to continue in this hobby is not wife material.

It's not that...

It's just that my priorities should be God, family, patients, then distantly my hobbies.
If I skimped time with the kids or the future wife to drive to Nevada for everclear (to make my spirit varnish), that wouldn't be right.
Or neglecting preparation for a tough surgerybecause I wanted to get my "fill in the blank" done on time.

However, getting the family involved in making something...like a desk for the kid or a "fill in the blank" for the wifey is another matter.

I'm just glad that neander woodworking is both meditative, relatively cost/space efficient, environmentally friendly, a good workout, and can result in world class results.

Jim Koepke
03-26-2018, 11:54 AM
Pulling a thin full shaving with a freshly sharpened plane blade.

jtk

Alan Schwabacher
03-26-2018, 12:44 PM
For me it was the utter simplicity of a card scraper.

Dovetails don't need to look good to be strong. If you simply dovetail your shop furniture quickly, by the time you finish they will start to look pretty good. They will last well, and constantly be a reminder of how far you've come.

Bill McDermott
03-26-2018, 1:04 PM
I first fully found Neander Nirvana when taking a hunk of fresh cut green wood and cutting into a pleasing and useful item.

Jay Larson
03-27-2018, 12:50 PM
There seems to be a consensus based around planes. (and sharpening) Mine came about when I was able to clean up the end grain with either my No. 3 or the block plane. No need to break out the sandpaper or use the chop saw to clean up the end.

That and being able to take just a shaving off to make the piece fit perfectly.

brian zawatsky
03-27-2018, 7:25 PM
I just had my own moment of bliss while cutting some dovetails. I watched the infamous Frank Klausz pins first video over the weekend and thought I’d give it a shot. I think he has made a convert out of me! This is probably the first set of dovetails that I was able to get a nice fit right off the saw, no tuning or fussing.
382492 382493

Patrick Chase
03-27-2018, 8:16 PM
I just had my own moment of bliss while cutting some dovetails. I watched the infamous Frank Klausz pins first video over the weekend and thought I’d give it a shot. I think he has made a convert out of me! This is probably the first set of dovetails that I was able to get a nice fit right off the saw, no tuning or fussing.


How would you lay out and cut blind DTs?

Pat Barry
03-27-2018, 8:34 PM
Sometimes a sweeter moment is seeing someone else have their own ah-ha moment.

My beautiful bride has supported my woodworking 'hobby' for years but she has never been one to participate. This past week we have been doing some small renovations in our house. We needed to take down some shelving brackets that had maybe a hundred sheet rock screws. She says she'll get the cordless drill... I say Ill go grab my brace and throw a Phillips bit in it. 2 minutes later I return with brace in hand ready to go, She asks where the charger is, can you just plug it in, do we have a 'thing-a-ma-jig' for screws? :rolleyes: . So I start pulling screws using the brace, she watches for about 3 screws and asks to try. I hand over the brace and watch one of the most beautiful sights ever... Maybe just maybe Ill get her in the workshop and try out a plane or two :D'
Yikes! she wanted to help and you give her a brace and bit?? ROFL

brian zawatsky
03-27-2018, 10:32 PM
How would you lay out and cut blind DTs?

Do you mean half blind, or full blind? I haven’t tried a pins first half blind yet, but I think the mechanics should be about the same. I don’t think cutting half blind DTs using this method would be quite as convenient though, since you could only mark the tail board from the inside of the joint. Doable, but a bit clunky perhaps.

If you meant full blind, then I don’t know because I’ve never cut one.

Matt Lau
03-30-2018, 12:41 PM
Nice work, brian!

Do you have a link that that video/dvd?

Brian Holcombe
03-30-2018, 12:46 PM
I cut full blind using pins first method.

Jim Koepke
03-30-2018, 1:33 PM
I just had my own moment of bliss while cutting some dovetails. I watched the infamous Frank Klausz pins first video over the weekend and thought I’d give it a shot. I think he has made a convert out of me! This is probably the first set of dovetails that I was able to get a nice fit right off the saw, no tuning or fussing.
382492 382493

That is why it is a good idea to try to cut a few sets using alternate ways. Sometimes we learn one way without realizing another way might work better for our own body and work style.

jtk

brian zawatsky
03-30-2018, 2:28 PM
Nice work, brian!

Do you have a link that that video/dvd?

Thanks Matt! Here ya go: https://woodandshop.com/frank-klausz-dovetail-tutorial-pins-first/

Todd Zucker
03-31-2018, 12:40 AM
For me at this stage, it is the little things, and more mental than mechanical, when something about using hand tools suddenly clicks in my head for the first time.

Like reaching for the dividers instead of a ruler to transfer a measurement.

Or this morning, getting ready to get the jigsaw out of the systainer and hooking up the cord and hose to cut a 9-inch wide 6/4 board in half and then deciding the hand saw might be just as fast. Time-wise it was close but much more satisfying.

Andrew Seemann
03-31-2018, 1:32 AM
I've had a few of those moments. One was probably finally getting the hang of using a scraper, another would be finally being able to competently sharpen anything I owned (well, almost everything. I'm still scared of setting the primary bevel on the skew rabbet).

One that comes to mind isn't so much a nirvana moment, but more of a liberation movement. I was at a demonstration/talk being presented by a Famous Woodworker, the kind that has articles in FWW and PW and has written books. Famous Woodworker passed around some small samples of his work, one I think was a table leg. The moment of liberation came when I was looking at the table leg and noticed that Famous Woodworker's hand plane tear out looked exactly like my hand plane tear out. I figured if Famous Woodworker's pieces had little imperfections in them, it was OK that mine did as well. Very liberating.

Patrick Chase
03-31-2018, 12:59 PM
I've had a few of those moments. One was probably finally getting the hang of using a scraper, another would be finally being able to competently sharpen anything I owned (well, almost everything. I'm still scared of setting the primary bevel on the skew rabbet).

The skew rabbet isn't that hard. The main thing to keep in mind is that if you err with the skew you need to err on the side of more skew than ideal, so that the side of the iron doesn't protrude from the flush-cutting side of the plane when it's set to take a uniform cut. The plane has enough lateral adjustment range that you can be off a tiny bit in the other direction without trouble. Because it's only flush-cutting on one side it isn't as finicky as, say, a shoulder plane.

Osvaldo Cristo
03-31-2018, 2:52 PM
I started with woodworking on the beginning of the 1980s. Always focused on power tools instead of manual tools, so no surprise I never really got anything really sharpened by myself.

Today was different.

Since I started with woodworking I brought my father recipe to my own shop when I have to sharp a tool: two files, coarse and fine, plus a plate of either granite or glass with wet sandpaper up to grit 400, perhaps 600, if available. It always "worked". No mess, no fuzz.

My hand tools never got a sharpness capable to clear cut a sheet of paper with minimum effort either at grain or against it. Today it was different.

Yesterday morning I came back from the US bringing at my luggage for the first time a set of three diamond sharpening plates and a compound bar for stropping. Today I took my three cheap sets of chisels (one set made in Brazil, one made in Portugal and another one made in England) and sharpened them. I followed Paul Sellers' tutorial from Youtube and for my surprise, for the first time, I had sharp chisels... yes, all is relative: if you compare with what I had in the last three decades, they are super sharp. Probably at sometime in the future I will discover they are not so sharp at all... :rolleyes:

When I tried the chisels firstly with a sheet of paper and afterwards in a piece of pine, I felt plenty compensated for my near US$ 200 expense and a couple of hours at wood shop working on them.

Matt Lau
04-02-2018, 6:23 PM
:)

I'm glad there's plenty of Nirvana for my fellow neanderthals.
One thing to add-- If you've never used a really nice rasp, you don't know what you're missing.

I was working on a spokeshave kit, and wanted to smooth the transition between ridges on a blank.
I'd tried using a really sharp knife, but was getting frustrated with tear out and grain direction changes.
Out came some rasps-- first an Auriou grain 9, which worked but chattered; then my Pechar Grain 7--which was a dream.

If you've never used a good rasp, try getting one from Udo Pechar.
They will outperform anything you've likely used.