Small bandsaw recommendations

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have an 18" Jet bandsaw that I use constantly and wouldn't want to be without, but I've been thinking of getting a small bandsaw (9 or 10", maybe) that I could use just for curved cuts. I build musical instruments, mainly banjos and fiddles, and I am often shifting back and forth between ripping/resawing kinds of work and cutting curves with a 1" radius or so. Changing blades that often would not be practical so I keep a 1/2" blade in the Jet at all times and just cut a wider kerf on tight curves, but it would be much nicer to have a small saw with a 1/4" or smaller blade to do those curved cuts more neatly. I use the scroll saw for some things now but it's very limited in what it can do.

My first bandsaw was a 3 wheel 10" Delta that threw the blade frequently because the plastic drive wheel had a major wobble. I got that at the dump in the "shop and drop" area for $3 when I was 14 or so, and had it for several years but could never get it to be dependable. Then I had a 10" 2 wheel Montgomery Ward bandsaw that I got for $5 at an auction without a motor, I did get it running but the table support was wonky and it had a lot of vibration that I couldn't seem to get rid of. Both of those saws have been long since sold for what they'd fetch, and I'm hoping I can find something good that I can keep and use long term.

I am open to old or new, if anyone can advise me what models to seek out or avoid. I'd want 3" depth of cut for cutting out pegheads on a sled, and the ability to cut through at least 2-1/4" of moderately dense hardwoods, maple, walnut, cherry etc without stalling the motor. I've been looking at the new Grizzly 9" saw, and at some recent Craftsman models. I wouldn't need a rip fence or miter gauge, anything like that would be done on the big saw. I'll be very grateful for any advice.
Zach

[andy bessette]

I would not waste time with the very small toy bandsaws. Besides my 20" Agazzani I have a 14" Delta that is an excellent machine. I keep the Agazzani setup with a 1" carbide blade, for resawing, and the Delta setup with a narrow blade, for curves.

[Brandon Speaks]

I am not particularly experienced with bench top models and dont know what your budget is, but it might be worth looking at a used 14" machine for what you are talking about. It is a pretty big hp drop down to the smaller ones and I have always heard they are harder to get and keep tuned.

One of these days I am going to get an 18 or 20 for resawing and use my go555 exactly how you describe.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you all, I have an old 14" Rockwell that predated the Jet, I could bring that back in and use it if I make room. My idea was to have a benchtop saw that I could easily move around, but if they're not handy then it would be better to make room for the big one.
Zach

[Nick Decker]

I had a 10" Rikon which was a nice small saw, but not enough power to cut thick hardwood like you're talking about. I'd say go for a 14" Delta clone or Rikon.

[John TenEyck]

My friend has the 9" Grizzly and it's very well made for what it is. It would be an ideal jobsite saw for me, but I'm not sure it would meet your needs for cutting 3" stock. If that's going to be a normal activity I'd go with a used 14" Delta/clone, as others have recommended.

John

[Bruce Page]

This question comes up often with the Rikon 10" getting high marks. I'm happy with mine as secondary to my MiniMax.

[Tom M King]

For my small bandsaw, I splurged, and bought a 10". Craftsman and Rikon come out of the same factory with different colored doors. My Craftsman was $165, with free pickup at a store. It's a surprisingly decent little saw just like it comes out of the box. It probably gets used more often, for quick jobs, than the old Delta 14", or the 24" Centauro.

[Bruce Page]

Tom, are you sure it's a 12"?

[Tom M King]

Ha! Sorry. 10" http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-3-hp-3.5-amp-10inch-band-saw/p-00921400000P

[John McClanahan]

That Craftsman saw looks decent, but be careful, Sears also sells a cheaper 10" saw that looks similar.

[Tom M King]

Our local Ace hardware had one the last time I was in there, but I'm not finding the 21400 for sale anywhere on the internet now. I bought it to use up on a roof a couple of years ago, but it's been used a lot since then.

[dennis thompson]

I've had the 10" Craftsman for several years and am very happy with it.

[Pete Staehling]

I had a 10" Rikon which was a nice small saw, but not enough power to cut thick hardwood like you're talking about.
I am surprised to read that, I have 9" Ryobi that is less saw than the Rikon and it works great for my use which sounds exactly like what Zachary proposes.

I use my saws in a similar manner, but build mostly mountain dulcimers. When I got a bigger saw, I kept my old 9" Ryobi and wound up using it more frequently than the bigger saw. I did some tweaks and built a sled, fence, and a bunch of special purpose jigs and now find it very serviceable.

I'd ideally like to have a 10" Rikon, but after much effort over a few years I have the Ryobi set up how I like it, so I am not swapping it out any time soon. The Rikon has metal parts in places where the cheaper saws like my Ryobi have plastic. It also is 10" rather than 9" and is generally a much better saw.

Bottom line? I think the Rikon would serve you very well and you could probably even get by with a lesser saw like the Ryobi or similar.

[Jeff Bartley]

Thank you all, I have an old 14" Rockwell that predated the Jet, I could bring that back in and use it if I make room. My idea was to have a benchtop saw that I could easily move around, but if they're not handy then it would be better to make room for the big one.
Zach

I'd make room for the 14" since you already have it!

[Jeff Heath]

If you already have an older cast iron c-frame 14" Delta bandsaw, anything you buy that is new, and made of stamped steel, is going to be a downgrade. Cast iron bandsaws perform better than steel ones because of rigidity. If you look in the vintage used market you will find 12" cast iron saws as well. Being able to properly tension a blade, without having the frame of the saw flexing, is going to yield your best cutting saw, even in a compact package. None of the currently made stamped steel saws is going to outperform the saw you already own.

[Kevin Adams]

Zach, they are not easy to find as they haven’t been made for a while, but hands down the best benchtop bandsaw made IMHO was the direct drive Swiss Inca (green one). You can find them once in a while for sale. I’ve owned one for many years and it is just about perfect with good power, great guides, and smooth running. That said, I agree with others in that I would get your old Delta up and running as that is a fine saw, just not truly portable if that’s what you want.

Hope this helps.
Kevin

[Nick Decker]

If you already have an older cast iron c-frame 14" Delta bandsaw, anything you buy that is new, and made of stamped steel, is going to be a downgrade. Cast iron bandsaws perform better than steel ones because of rigidity. If you look in the vintage used market you will find 12" cast iron saws as well. Being able to properly tension a blade, without having the frame of the saw flexing, is going to yield your best cutting saw, even in a compact package. None of the currently made stamped steel saws is going to outperform the saw you already own.

Maybe one of you engineers can clarify this for me. I was under the impression that steel framed saws were stiffer than cast iron saws of a comparable size. Google tells me that cast iron has more compressive strength, while steel has more tensile strength. I suppose the manufactured qualities of each material would figure into the answer, as in, are we talking about cheap Chinese steel or expensive Japanese steel?

[Jeff Heath]

Steel frame saws are inferior to cast iron saws in vibration dampening qualities and in rigidity...i.e...being able to properly tension a blade without deflecting the structure of the saw. Because of that, it's easier to eliminate frustration from using a small bandsaw (and of course, the bigger saws like my 27" and 30" and 36" bandsaws) because they hold their setups much better. Even on a small saw, like a 12" Delta or Walker Turner, their c-frame construction, all cast iron, makes for smoother cuts because of the vibration dampening qualities.

My 16" Walker Turner bandsaw, which is my "small" saw, used for scrolling and tight radius curved work, can be tensioned a lot better, and I can easily resaw 10" wide persimmon boards ( a true North American ebony) with a 1/4" blade (the saw has a 12" resaw capacity under the guides) because I can easily crank up the tension on the blade. The saw can handle it. My former 18" Jet saw vibrated a lot and couldn't resaw tougher woods very well because of it. I learned my lesson and replaced all my new Jet machines with American iron and never looked back. Major upgrade in every category.

The other nice feature is that the stiffer cast iron saws can handle larger hp motor upgrades. Putting a 2 hp motor on the 16" Walker Turner was a piece of cake, even though they were sold, back in the 1930's and 1940's, with a 3/4 hp motor. The saw handles the larger motor with ease, which just makes it a better saw all the way around.

[Nick Decker]

I can understand the superior vibration dampening effect of cast iron, because it's softer metal. It's the claim about rigidity that I have a problem with, for that same reason. When I bought a bandsaw, I followed the advice of several people here who told me that a steel framed 14" saw could apply more tension to a blade than a cast iron 14" saw. Not that the steel-framed saw was a better saw in all respects, just in being able to apply more tension to a blade without damaging the saw.

[andy bessette]

...a steel framed 14" saw could apply more tension to a blade than a cast iron 14" saw...

That is baloney.

[glenn bradley]

And we now see the value of using caution when learning things on the Internet.

[Nick Decker]

Not sure what you mean by that, Glenn. I'm aware of the danger of accepting everything I read, which is one of the things I like about this place. It seems to have quite a few people who give good solid advice.

I hear Jeff's argument, and also see that he's talking about "old arn" that was made in the 30s and 40s. I understand that, and that some folks think that those are the only tools worth owning.

I've learned to disregard much of what Andy says, based largely on his own signature.

What I'm trying to understand has more to do with the properties of cast iron vs. steel, and if perhaps I was misinformed about that.

[Dave Cav]

I'd make room for the 14" since you already have it!

That would be my vote as well. Once it's tuned up it'll do anything you need for it to do within reason.

[Geoff Crimmins]

That is baloney.

Are you sure? I'd be shocked if the the steel-frame Laguna 14 SUV can't tension blades that are well beyond the capabilities of a cast-iron Delta 14" bandsaw.

--Geoff

[Andrew Seemann]

You would be hard pressed to find a better small modern bandsaw than that 14" Rockwell if it is in good condition, especially if you want to go through 2" of maple or walnut without stalling the motor.

[Roger Marty]

Old 10" Homecraft if you can find one. I have one and it is nice.

[Darcy Warner]

Rubber wheels would suck, seems like an odd material to make a wheel out of.

[Ryan J Carpenter]

Some things to extract from an engineering side that are getting a little obscured. 1) steel is much stronger than iron - which means that a pound of steel can be the the same tensile strength as 1-5+ pounds of iron depending on chemistry and heat treat. 2) both iron and steel are expensive and the newer companies spend quite a bit of time rearranging the material to reduce material cost while still giving strength to meet their tension goals (likely less than old iron machines where engineers were not trying to save every pound to be globally competitive or avoid shipping cost).
3) There are many ways to reduce vibration and having a heavy machine (steel or iron) is one one of the easiest as it is hard to perturb a heavy mass. Something an old machine will give you that the current woodworking market doesn't demand from new machines.

[Pete Staehling]

Yes, it is. These are remarkable little saws, and you can usually find one for under $50.....at least I have seen many for this much or less. I have a little 8" Homecraft table saw that I rebuilt to be my portable jobsite saw. I hung a 1&1/2 hp motor on it, replaced the bearings, and cleaned it all up. It has a 2" DOC, and I can easily rip 8/4 hardwood with it with nice, clean cuts. Great little saw, and twice as nice as those plastic crappers at the Home Depot for several hundred bucks. I paid $20 for mine, and put $100 worth of bearings, belts, new blade and the motor into it.

If I saw one for $20 that needed a $100 spruce up, I'd immediately reach for my wallet.


Rubber wheels would suck, seems like an odd material to make a wheel out of.

Rubber wheels?

[Nick Decker]

Some things to extract from an engineering side that are getting a little obscured. 1) steel is much stronger than iron - which means that a pound of steel can be the the same tensile strength as 1-5+ pounds of iron depending on chemistry and heat treat. 2) both iron and steel are expensive and the newer companies spend quite a bit of time rearranging the material to reduce material cost while still giving strength to meet their tension goals (likely less than old iron machines where engineers were not trying to save every pound to be globally competitive or avoid shipping cost).
3) There are many ways to reduce vibration and having a heavy machine (steel or iron) is one one of the easiest as it is hard to perturb a heavy mass. Something an old machine will give you that the current woodworking market doesn't demand from new machines.

Thank you, Ryan. This makes sense to me.

[Darcy Warner]

I know I can tension a blade tighter on a newer steel framed saw. Old saws were designed to run thinner blades, .025 and could tension a blade like that.

I know I can't get the proper tension on a .035 blade on any of the big saws I have owned, y30, y36, Oliver #16, Oliver 116, wadkin, Fay and egan, etc.

I do know that I much prefer running and using a big old cast iron saw compared to a welded up frame newer one.

Yes. Someone mentioned rubber "wheels" about 7 times.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kick over the proverbial worm can. I am not in search of very high tension anyway, so I'm sure either steel or cast iron would suit me fine. I think the rubber wheel poster was referring to rubber tires, but I prefer urethane for my bandsaws anyway. I don't know if that's a kind of rubber too, but if so it's much stiffer than the stock tires I have replaced after they cracked.
Zach