Skew questions

[Thomas Wilson80]

I am a new turner and just purchased two skew chisels and started practicing on some pine 2x4s. I cut the wood into 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 13 inch strips to practice. I've tried it between centers using a spur drive or in a chuck (squared). I can get a really nice surface at first, but once the spindle gets down to 1/2 inches or less, I get tons of vibration and a lot of tear out (even trying the finger steady method mentioned on this forum).

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Is it the wood? I made a few wands for my kids but they required a lot of sanding.
Any advice/comments/critiques welcome.

tom

[Michael Mills]

The pine will be more difficult IMHO.
If you have applied a lot of tailstock pressure it could flex/bend the wood as you get to a smaller diameter. You may try backing off the pressure a little.
I think most folks hone their skews (razor sharp) mainly for planing cuts. As it gets thinner you want to apply as much pressure as possible towards the head/tail stock rather than into the wood perpendicular due to the flex of the wood. A really sharp tool takes less pressure to cut.

[Mark Greenbaum]

Pine is a difficult wood, so try some cherry or walnut. It'll be stiffer and won't flex so early. And also keep tailstock pressure to a minimum. Those do have a nice shape, and you're going to be fine. I made about 18 magic wands and conquered my fears of the skew. You're off to a great start.

[Steve Mawson]

What the other folks have said. There is not any wood that will not vibrate when you get down to 1/2" and 13" long.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It has to do with the diameter of the wood, the length of the turning, the type of wood, the pressure applied by the tailstock and the pressure you apply to the wood with the skew as you are cutting it that causes the wood to deflect to cause the vibration. Really proficient, production turners are able to support the turning with fingers on one hand while they manage the skew with the other hand. Other wise, one has to use a support mechanism.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

As was said use some nice straight grained hardwood, clamp one side into a chuck, and drill a dimple in the other side, that way you do not need any pressure to keep the piece rotating, just enough to have the live center touch the wood.

And yes sharp skew and the only pressure in the direction of the head or tailstock, the other thing you can do is to build a steady rest, that way you can steady the wood and make your piece like half the length.

Here are two steady rest you can build, first one uses a magnetic base and two scare wheels, the other one uses 2 pieces of UHMW plastic with half a hole in each one, two clamps hold the plastic in place.

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[John K Jordan]

I am a new turner and just purchased two skew chisels and started practicing on some pine 2x4s. I cut the wood into 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 13 inch strips to practice. I've tried it between centers using a spur drive or in a chuck (squared). I can get a really nice surface at first, but once the spindle gets down to 1/2 inches or less, I get tons of vibration and a lot of tear out (even trying the finger steady method mentioned on this forum).

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Is it the wood? I made a few wands for my kids but they required a lot of sanding.
Any advice/comments/critiques welcome.

tom

Tom,

One of my favorite topics! I've turned hundreds of wands now and other even thinner spindles - I included a picture below of a much longer spindle turned down to 1/16" on the small end. I don't have any problem with pine or any other wood I used as long as it has reasonably straight grain and no big defects in the thin section.

There are some good ways to control the chatter, the best is using the left hand as a steady. I use several hand positions I used depending on the situation and the direction of the cut, sometimes crossing my left hand over to the right of the skew. I hold the skew in one hand close to the tool rest and jam the end of the handle against the underside of my forearm for support. (I don't use long tool handles for most turning.)

Another very important thing is to hold the blank firmly at the headstock end, not between centers. This stiffens up at least the first third of the blank. I've used a chuck but I find it better to first mount it between centers and turn a short morse taper on the end and cram that into the headstock spindle - it holds the piece fine, gives more clearance, no spinning chuck to watch out for, and a partially completed wand can be taken out of the lathe and put back later with exact registration - something not easy or perhaps not even possible with a chuck!

Sometimes there is a sweet spot in the tailstock pressure and increasing or releasing some pressure can change the amount of chatter. BTW, I like to use a 1/2" steb center in the tailstock.

Another thing might be your skew grind. I assume it's razor sharp, honed/stropped. I generally use a 1/2" or 3/4" skew with about 35-40-deg included angle on the bevels. A small angle can slice wood easier but can sometimes tear out more with certain woods. Play with the angle of the edge to the work; 45-deg is usually recommended but sometimes varying it a bit can help. Make sure the tool is pressed firmly down onto the tool rest, but that's usually not as much as a problem for thin spindles.

Make sure your tool rest is not too high. I've seen people put the skew nearly horizontal with the bevel nearly on the top of the spindle. This is a horrible position.

High speed helps. Light cuts help. Slow traverse helps.

1-1/2" blanks seem like too much work to me! I start with blanks about 1" or 1-1/8" or so square by 13-1/2 to 14" long, some shorter, some much longer. I have made wands from wood as small as 3/4" square. I trim away a bit of the wood on the bandsaw before turning to save a bit of time. I turn at full speed on my lathe, over 3000 rpm. The skew is the best tool for the shaft and I use spindle gouges for coves and detail. I have had chipout on some specific osage orange blanks with the skew and had to use a different tool for a clean cut. Sanding can often start with 400 grit, perhaps coarser if I leave too many tool marks.

Some trimmed blanks.

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I've turned spindles nearly 30" long with the same technique. These taper from about 1/2" down to about 1/16" - one from walnut and one from pine - a piece of shelving pine from Home Depot. (I don't have a steady rest and I've never tried using one.)

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I wrote a document for a handout when I do thin spindle demos at clubs. The document uses a wand as the example. It needs some updating but it should cover most of what I found works. If you want a PDF send me a PM with your email address. I've gotten success stories from people who previously had big problems and even a string of failures.

For inspiration, these two students turned wands in their early lessons, one as her first real project after an introductory day two years previous and the other for her second project. Neither had access to a lathe outside my shop so they had no practice time between sessions. I start out all new students with the skew as the first tool in their hands.

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Some of my own recent wands, eastern red cedar and ebony:

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These were a huge hit when the Harry Potter books were released - I set up on the sidewalk in front of a bookstore and turned wands on a mini lathe I bought just for that. Wands and variations are the only thing I make to sell - I made an obscene amount of money during the book sales.

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Conductor's batons are also good for thin spindle practice:

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BTW, my hat's off to you for tackling these. A number of versatile woodturning experts say that turning spindles will teach you the fine tool control that will let you turn anything, even bowls and platters! :)

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Also, too bad you live so far away. If you find yourself in this area stop in and we'll have a wand-making day!

[Thomas Wilson80]

Tanks for all the replies. My skews are sharp (honed) and my included angle is about 40 degrees. I tried backing off the tailstock pressure but will try drilling a small hole and setting the headstock end to a Morse taper, as suggested. Overall these were much easier than bowls but definitely different.
thanks, tom

[Reed Gray]

There is about a 10 to 1 ratio for spindle turning, so 10 inches long and 1 inch diameter will be pretty solid. 20 to 1 will want to whip. It takes surprising little push to get the spindle to flex when it gets thinner. Some of it is feed rate and some of it is bevel rub. "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood shouldn't know it."

robo hippy

[Thomas Canfield]

Using a chuck to hold square stock will eliminate the need for higher tailstock pressure on live center and reduce the whipping as mentioned earlier. Pine also has the different growth rings with fine and coarser grain which has a greater impact on the "shaft" stability as diameter decreases. Above suggestions and some good wood should really improve the start you show with the pine work.

[JohnC Lucas]

Reducing chatter on spindle turnings just requires lots of practice. do your best to reduce the pressure on the bevel of the skew. Can't push this enough. Very very light pressure. You should be able to reduce the chatter using your fingers on the back side. If it' burns your fingers then you have too much pressure on the bevel. Your fingers counter the pressure. too much on the skew requires too much on your fingers and they burn. You can also reduce the pressure from the tailstock, hold one end in a chuck or use a morse taper like John Jordan does. If you get chatter when you make your next pass use even lighter pressure and change the angle of the skew so it cuts the tops off the chatter from the previous pass. If you keep the same angle you just accentuate the chatter. Oh and if in Doubt sharpen it again. I picked up my skew the other day, thought it was sharp. When turning the rounded foot on a stool spindle leg It kept acting like it wanted to dig in so I had tiny facets and it was hard to control I had just done a planing cut and though it was sharp. I went to the grinder and used the leather strop. Next pass over the foot was perfect and easy to control. It was sharp, but not sharp enough.

[Prashun Patel]

"Another very important thing is to hold the blank firmly at the headstock end, not between centers. I've used a chuck but I find it better to first mount it between centers and turn a short morse taper on the end and cram that into the headstock spindle - it holds the piece fine, gives more clearance, no spinning chuck to watch out for, and a partially completed wand can be taken out of the lathe and put back later with exact registration - something not easy or perhaps not even possible with a chuck!"


That's an elegant solution. Thank you. Is it critical to get the taper perfect, is their leeway? John, have you used a drill chuck in the headstock to hold a small tenon?

[Michael Mills]

In addition to my and other prior comments. You state you are a "new turner" and "I get tons of vibration and a lot of tear out". The vibration is one thing but the tear out may be another. Are you cutting downhill with the grain. If cutting against the grain you will get tear out whether vibration (flexing) occurs or not.
The changes from harder to softer growth rings in pine may exasperate the problem if cutting uphill on a spindle.
Just another possibility.

[John K Jordan]

"Another very important thing is to hold the blank firmly at the headstock end, not between centers. I've used a chuck but I find it better to first mount it between centers and turn a short morse taper on the end and cram that into the headstock spindle - it holds the piece fine, gives more clearance, no spinning chuck to watch out for, and a partially completed wand can be taken out of the lathe and put back later with exact registration - something not easy or perhaps not even possible with a chuck!"

That's an elegant solution. Thank you. Is it critical to get the taper perfect, or is their leeway? John, have you used a drill chuck in the headstock to hold a small tenon?


Thanks! I started using the short taper very early when making wands (and other thin spindles) when I found out how much easier they were to turn when in a chuck. But when I wanted to turn them at the book store on the mini lathe the bed was just tool short with the chuck but it fit with the taper. I'd heard about people carving the corners from a piece of square stock and hammering it into the headstock taper but I didn't like a lot about that. The MT proved to be so effective I use it all the time now.

I make the tapers with the help of a little brass gauge but at first I made them with two cheap vernier calipers. Put a drive center or something in the headstock and mark where it exits. Pull it out and mark some distance down from the first mark, say 1/2" or 3/4". Set the calipers to the diameters at the two marks and use a parting tool to cut two sizing grooves the right distance apart, 1/2" or 3/4" in this case. Make sure the distance between the two grooves is measured from same side of both grooves. I use the parting tool to cut the taper between the two sizing grooves by eye, cutting a little extra for clearance on the larger end to be sure it will seat completely. Notice I also cut a shallow relief in the middle to make it seat easier and since it really only needs to be supported at two points. If it doesn't fit when testing I pop it back between the centers and shave a bit more, extending it a bit on the wider end if needed.

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The mini lathe bed is too short for me to even turn the taper between centers so I do that ahead of time on the larger lathe. Note that some lathes are made to seat an MT2 a little deeper or shallower than others. If making blanks for a second lathe I always test on that lathe, or if not possible, make the taper a little longer on the large end just in case. For a short lathe I also take my shortest live center.

I think a collet chuck would provide some of the same advantages except for the length problem. Cutting a tenon to hold in a collet would be quicker than making a taper. I don't have one but I'm saving up for one. https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/4400/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-7-Piece-Set

I have used a Jacobs drill chuck in the headstock for tiny tenons. It will tend to come loose in use so I use a draw bar. (Not all come threaded for a draw bar.)

Speaking of draw bars, for the very thin long spindles I drill a hole in the MT on the wood and held it tightly in the headstock MT with a 1/4"x10 drawbar. (I drill the hole by hand and don't worry if it's exactly in the center and I don't tap threads in the hole - I filed grooves in the threads on the end of the drawbar to make it work like a tap.) This eliminates the need for any pressure from the tailstock when a spindle gets very thin on the far end. In fact, when the thin end of the 30" spindle approached 1/16" I removed the tailstock completely and did the final cut supporting the wood entirely with my left hand.

BTW, there is another excellent (and ancient) way to hold tiny tenons, taught by Mark StLeger and others, a clever method sometimes also called a "collet chuck". I think it's better than the Jacob's chuck which only holds the wood in three places. Make one as needed: clamp a small disk/short cylinder in a scroll chuck and drill a hole the size of the tenon. I mark the wood first so I can put the disk back in the same place. Take the disk out of the chuck and and make a saw cut from the outside all the way into the center hole. Remount the disk and tighten very slightly. (You can redrill the hole at this point for more precision). Then insert the tenon in the hole, and tighten enough to hold to squeeze the tenon tight. A variation of this is used in machining metal too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCUkJydSmdA

A real collet would be even better but you would have to turn the tenon to fit an existing collet. The ER-32 collets will only contract 1/32 or so.

JKJ

[jeff oldham]

leo I love your magnetic steady rest,,,may I ask where did you purchase the magnets

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I got them at a used machinery place, years ago, I see that Amazon has them.

There must be lots of places having these,as it is a standard way to set up dial indicators.

https://www.amazon.com/NORTOOLS-Magnetic-Base-130lb-Indicator-Strictly/dp/B071ZZ1KJV/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1522171669&sr=8-5&keywords=magnetic+indicator+holder

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Grizzly has them for $10.95 http://www.grizzly.com/products/Multi-Purpose-Magnetic-Base/H3328 . Amazon has them at various prices.

[Clint Bach]

I've been known to use a mandrel saver in the tailstock. Just slip a tenon of the right diameter into the mandrel saver and go for it. The result is no end pressure on the spindle yet the end rotates true.

c

[John K Jordan]

I've been known to use a mandrel saver in the tailstock. Just slip a tenon of the right diameter into the mandrel saver and go for it. The result is no end pressure on the spindle yet the end rotates true.

c

That's an interesting idea, I'll have to buy one of those someday. I guess a little shoulder on the tenon could allow adding some pressure if needed. I find that chatter can be controlled at times by slightly increasing or decreasing the tailstock pressure - I try one or the other until it either helps or doesn't.

JKJ

[Jim Barkelew]

MT2 collets fit directly in the spindle and tighten with a drawbar. The tolerance on the tenon is fairly loose and the grip is tight.

[Clint Bach]

John, the 19 or 20 metric er32 collet set will cover every diameter from 2 or 3 mm to 20 mm. No gaps in the spectrum so you can hold any diameter tenon or drill bit or whatever. Mine were less than $30 delivered. They work extremely well. Now if I only had a mt 2 adapter for the tailstock I would have perfect tailstock drilling with any bit.

A very slight taper on the spindle end that fits into the mandrel saver makes for a perfect fit into the mandrel saver and you can adjust the tailstock pressure easily. No shoulder required.

C

[Prashun Patel]

Thank you so much for the idea to turn a Morse taper, John.

I am making some turned legs for a stool. I did the first leg between centers. It vibrated considerably (26" long x 1.5" dia). I was able to steady things with my left hand enough to make it passable.

However, for the second leg, I turned the MT and inserted that into the spindle. I used the tail stock to push the MT tight, and then backed off the pressure so the point of the live center was engaged but without force.

The difference was remarkable. Almost all of the vibration was eliminated. I was able to improve results further by steadying with my left hand.

Thanks again.

[John K Jordan]

John, the 19 or 20 metric er32 collet set will cover every diameter from 2 or 3 mm to 20 mm. No gaps in the spectrum so you can hold any diameter tenon or drill bit or whatever. Mine were less than $30 delivered. They work extremely well. Now if I only had a mt 2 adapter for the tailstock I would have perfect tailstock drilling with any bit.

A very slight taper on the spindle end that fits into the mandrel saver makes for a perfect fit into the mandrel saver and you can adjust the tailstock pressure easily. No shoulder required.

C

I looked at the ER-32 collet chucks but they still have the problem of limiting the length of the spindle, a problem when I take the mini-lathe somewhere. I just bought some MT2 collets that I hope to try soon. These barely extend past the end of the headstock spindle and are threaded for a 3/8" drawbar. The 1/2" collet looks like it might be perfect for thin spindles like wands and finials.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

I'm glad that worked for you! The first time I tried it I was amazed at how much better it worked. I forgot if I mentioned it in this thread but I've turned some rather long, thin spindles with this method, maybe 30" long and tapering from 1/2" down to 1/16", one from soft shelving pine from Home Depot.

I did use a draw bar for those since tailstock support is "iffy" once you get down to about 1/16" inch, especially on soft wood! I simply drilled a short hole in the end of the taper and twisted a 1/4" drawbar into the hole. (I use a triangular file to cut a few grooves through the drawbar threads to make the end into a tap of sorts.) In fact, with the drawbar I can remove the tailstock completely and make still final cuts on the far end with the "left hand steady rest" method.

You can also reduce vibration the same way by holding one end firmly in a chuck. However, this is at the expense of limiting the length of the turning on a short bed lathe, of having a knuckle-banging hazard when working from the headstock end, and of the advantages of perfect registration if re-mounting. You do have to make sure there are no lateral stresses in the wood caused by tightening the chuck while holding the far end firmly with the tailstock (worse on square-ended stock) or there may be problems as the wood gets thinner. If hold large stock with a chuck I like to first mount between centers and turn a tenon on one end to hold in the chuck, then after mounting between the chuck and live center I loosen the tailstock and make sure that end of the wood doesn't wants to move off center.

JKJ


Thank you so much for the idea to turn a Morse taper, John.

I am making some turned legs for a stool. I did the first leg between centers. It vibrated considerably (26" long x 1.5" dia). I was able to steady things with my left hand enough to make it passable.

However, for the second leg, I turned the MT and inserted that into the spindle. I used the tail stock to push the MT tight, and then backed off the pressure so the point of the live center was engaged but without force.

The difference was remarkable. Almost all of the vibration was eliminated. I was able to improve results further by steadying with my left hand.

Thanks again.

[Thomas Wilson80]

I did use a draw bar for those since tailstock support is "iffy" once you get down to about 1/16" inch, especially on soft wood! I simply drilled a short hole in the end of the taper and twisted a 1/4" drawbar into the hole. (I use a triangular file to cut a few grooves through the drawbar threads to make the end into a tap of sorts.) In fact, with the drawbar I can remove the tailstock completely and make still final cuts on the far end with the "left hand steady rest" method.

JKJ

John, maybe a silly question...but could you further explain this drawbar method (i.e. what exactly is a drawbar, where do you get them?, etc.). Thanks,
Tom

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I started turning using MT tapers on the stock a few months ago and love it. I bought lots of stock that already had tapers turned that happen to fit an MT1, so I got a taper adapter from MT2 to MT1 to use on my full size lathe. Having the adapter also permits me to use the accessories from my mini lathe on the larger lathe. It cost about $8 on ebay.

[Paul Gilbert]

I have been thinking about turning some long stem flowers. I would like to have them with ~ 24" stems. Just for the heck of it I would like to do it with a solid blank, not drill a hole for a dowl. I plan on using string steadys for the stem section. I would like to try to turn them in "tension" mode rather than "compression" from the tailstock.

I have an ER 32 collet chuck for the headstock, but how to center and then attach the tailstock end to the live center eludes me. Anyone out there with any good ideas on how to do that?

[Peter Fabricius]

Make some Soft Noses that will screw on to the live centre, 3/4" x 10tpi. Make a split one that will fit on the end of your stem, screw it onto the live centre and apply tension. Capt Eddie designed the Soft Noses.

[John K Jordan]

John, maybe a silly question...but could you further explain this drawbar method (i.e. what exactly is a drawbar, where do you get them?, etc.). Thanks,
Tom

NOT a silly question!

A drawbar is simply a threaded rod with some kind of nut on one end. One came with my milling machine to hold Jacobs chucks and end mill collets.

I made drawbars for my wood lathes from lengths of all-thread rod, available at hardware stores and Home Depot in various threads. A common size for tools you buy in the US 3/8"; I made one from 3/8" all-thread for tools and another from 1/4" all-thread to hold wooden spindles.

The drawbar rod is long enough to go through the hole in the center of the headstock spindle. It threads loosely into something with a taper you want to hold tightly into the morse taper in the spindle. For example, if you use a Jacobs chuck in the headstock to hold a drill bit, without a draw bar it will very likely come loose during use. A nut on the end pulls the tool firmly into the headstock.

These are the two I made for woodturning. For the smaller one I simply turned a piece of hard wood and drilled and tapped 1/4-20 hole in the middle. For the larger one I epoxied a washer on a threaded fastener I found somewhere. A nut and washer would have worked for either of these but then I'd have to keep wrenches handy.

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I use the 3/8" drawbar for my Jacob's chucks and I'll use it on the new MT2 collets I just bought.

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I use the 1/4" drawbar on thin wood spindles where I've turned a MT2 taper on one end to jam into the headstock and when the spindle is unsupported (or not well supported) on the tailstock end. I filed a flat in the middle of the drawbar thread so I can hold it with an adjustable wrench to force threads into a hole in the wood. As mentioned elsewhere, I file a few grooves through the threads on the end to make a tap that will easily cut threads into wood.

The 28" walnut spindle tapers from 1/2" down to 1/16", turned with a skew without using a steady rest. It's the reason I made the 1/4" draw bar since I couldn't finish turning it since it kept popping out of the headstock!

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Unfortunately, a drawbar can't easily be used in the tailstock and still let you adjust the quill with the crank. I did see a post from someone who devised a spring-loaded mechanism to allow this but I don't remember the details - it might have been on another forum.

BTW, if you want to use a drawbar on a Jacobs chuck make sure you buy one that is threaded for a drawbar! Many are not. I had to pay a little extra for a MT/JT mandrel threaded for a drawbar.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

I have been thinking about turning some long stem flowers. ... in "tension" mode rather than "compression" from the tailstock.
...how to center and then attach the tailstock end to the live center eludes me. Anyone out there with any good ideas on how to do that?

This has been tried and discussed elsewhere. In theory, using tension a great method to reduce vibration and chatter. If the spindle is thin, however, a potential problem is in starting and stopping the lathe. Inertia from mass of the support on the tailstock end during acceleration/deceleration can create torque which might snap a thin spindle. Another issue is you can't pull tension by simply cranking the tailstock quill back without pulling your holding means out of the tailstock MT taper. You could devise a low-mass spring-loaded means to provide tension.

Rudy Lopez does a demo where he turns a long goblet with a very thin stem. He starts with a green branch. He uses a gentle jam method to support the goblet bowl, turning the stem from the tailstock to the headstock. www.virginiawoodturners.com/speakers/pdf%20stuff/Lopez.pdf He sometimes uses a clothespin as a steady rest. Catch one of his demos if you can - a wonderful turner!

Rudy wrote these instructions: azwoodturners.org/pages/tips/ThinStemmedGobletFromALimb.pdf

For lots more search google for rudolph lopez goblet

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson80]

NOT a silly question!

A drawbar is simply a threaded rod with some kind of nut on one end. One came with my milling machine to hold Jacobs chucks and end mill collets.

I made drawbars for my wood lathes from lengths of all-thread rod, available at hardware stores and Home Depot in various threads. A common size for tools you buy in the US 3/8"; I made one from 3/8" all-thread for tools and another from 1/4" all-thread to hold wooden spindles.

The drawbar rod is long enough to go through the hole in the center of the headstock spindle. It threads loosely into something with a taper you want to hold tightly into the morse taper in the spindle. For example, if you use a Jacobs chuck in the headstock to hold a drill bit, without a draw bar it will very likely come loose during use. A nut on the end pulls the tool firmly into the headstock.

These are the two I made for woodturning. For the smaller one I simply turned a piece of hard wood and drilled and tapped 1/4-20 hole in the middle. For the larger one I epoxied a washer on a threaded fastener I found somewhere. A nut and washer would have worked for either of these but then I'd have to keep wrenches handy.

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I use the 3/8" drawbar for my Jacob's chucks and I'll use it on the new MT2 collets I just bought.

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I use the 1/4" drawbar on thin wood spindles where I've turned a MT2 taper on one end to jam into the headstock and when the spindle is unsupported (or not well supported) on the tailstock end. I filed a flat in the middle of the drawbar thread so I can hold it with an adjustable wrench to force threads into a hole in the wood. As mentioned elsewhere, I file a few grooves through the threads on the end to make a tap that will easily cut threads into wood.

The 28" walnut spindle tapers from 1/2" down to 1/16", turned with a skew without using a steady rest. It's the reason I made the 1/4" draw bar since I couldn't finish turning it since it kept popping out of the headstock!

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Unfortunately, a drawbar can't easily be used in the tailstock and still let you adjust the quill with the crank. I did see a post from someone who devised a spring-loaded mechanism to allow this but I don't remember the details - it might have been on another forum.

BTW, if you want to use a drawbar on a Jacobs chuck make sure you buy one that is threaded for a drawbar! Many are not. I had to pay a little extra for a MT/JT mandrel threaded for a drawbar.

JKJ


Great explanation and information. Thanks!

[JohnC Lucas]

I don't use tension or compression on long thin spindles. I have an adaptor that I built for my live center that just has a hole just a little bigger than the spindle I want to turn. I move the quill out until it captures the turning without putting any pressure on it. Then I just take really light cuts with the skew. I do have the other end in a chuck.

[Peter Fabricius]

Holding Spindles in the Beall Collet Chuck is the absolute best and most accurate. The Chuck 1 1/4" x 8tpi Spindle thread with five ER32 collets (1/4" to 3/4") are great but when you add 18 x Metric Collets this Chuck becomes fantastic. The Chuck screws on the Spindle and there is no length restrictions as long as the wood fits in through the hollow Lathe Spindle. I should advertise for JR but this is a seriously functional Chuck especially in the production Drop Spindle turning Mode.

[John K Jordan]

Holding Spindles in the Beall Collet Chuck is the absolute best and most accurate. ...

Most accurate: Peter, have you measured the accuracy of various holding options and other collet chucks? A dial test indicator could measure the runout on a precision drill rod. I use cheap R8 collets in my milling machine and they are spot on.

A collet chuck does look useful except for one special application for me - turning wands from 13-1/2 to 14" stock on my Jet mini lathe. All ER-32 collet chucks I've seen appear to extend several inches past the end of the headstock spindle, no problem for a longer lathe but impossible to use on the mini I carry places to demonstrate turning. The bed length limitation on the mini is what led me to hold wands by a short morse taper rather than use any kind of a chuck.

In the mean time I bought this in 1/2" size for $11 which is well big enough for 1" stock: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?view=classic&ProductID=4314

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I probably will get an ER-32 collet chuck at some point for my larger lathes. Does anyone have experience with both the Apprentice set ($89.90)and the Beall ($163.00)?

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/4400/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-7-Piece-Set
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http://www.bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php

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The less expensive Apprentice is also appealing if the knurling will let you hand tighten. It sounds like the Beall comes with and needs spanner wrenches.

I know Beall is generally has good quality stuff but and probably worth the extra $73 if the cheaper Apprentice is poorly made and not concentric. Maybe I'll ask if I can return the Apprentice if it is not concentric or poorly made.

Peter or anyone - any experience with both brands?

JKJ

[Peter Fabricius]

John J. I only have experience with the Beall. It does come with two spanners but these are rarely needed in turning mode. Just hand tighten and go. I have seen the Apprentice and the fit and finish is not close to the Beall. The accuracy, I cannot comment on since I have not tried it. There is no question in my mind that the Beall works perfectly. I have not put my indicator on it but there is no runout by sight or feel. I do have a 3/8" R8 Collet and drawbar to hold the cutter for tread making, works great but it is depth limited. If you are selling anything turned in the Collet Chuck then buy the best.

John L. the little adaptor on the live centre is called a soft nose. I have made a whole bunch of these for different applications. As you noted I too made them with a hole to accept the Spindle, I even made some with 1/4" ID Bearings set into them. This allows almost friction/torque free holding because both the Live Centre and the Bearing will turn. Great for my Drop Spindles. I knock out the point in the live centre so the Spindle can go as far as needed into the quill through the live centre.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

anyone - any experience with both brands?

JKJ
I don’t have experience using the Beall - but I have handled one, and it is nicely machined. I bought the Apprentice a few years ago and it too is well machined, although perhaps not as shiney as the Beall. While I haven’t broken out the dial indicator, in use there is no indication of runout that would cause me to check. It is a good working, solid piece of equipment that I seldom take out of its blow-molded case...when I do I always appreciate having it on hand.