Hofman not the dovetail machine maker but the jointer planer slot mortiser company.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m looking for the US distributor of Hofman machinery. I’m in the market for both a jointer and a shaper. From what I understand this guys are what Martin is no longer but was.

I also understand there is only one Us importer and distributor of Hofman. For the life of me I can’t figure out who.

Thank you much

[David Kumm]

My understanding is that no one distributes Hofmann in the US. Joe Calhoon is the guy who knows for sure. Hofmann may be slightly better or worse than Martin but you are really splitting hairs here. Lots of effort to import it vs Martin. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

I have been told by two people “both of whom I have lost contact with” that there is a us dealer of Hofman but that it’s a new thing in the last couple years.

More than one person has mentioned to me that the newer Martin shapers ands was are just not what they were in the past with regard to build quality. It seems people are saying the electronics are much ,ore advanced than say the early 2000 era machines and th new spindle system is great but overall the machines are not as substantial as the older ones.

I was talking with a gentleman this afternoon that is selling a Kolle slot mortiser and I made mention of having just got a quote on anew Martin t12mand t54. His response was I would not buy a new Martin machine. When I asked why he went into how they basically just are not built like they once were but that Hofman still makes a machine the way they were built 20 plus years ago.

When mentioning Martin to people whom have owned both old and new Martin machines they all say so much to some degree.

I would at least like the option to price the Hofman if I could. I understand it comes in a 24” width and that’s pretty attractive when mated with a 24’’ planer.

I interested in your option that Hofman may not be as nice as current Martin. I really know nothing of Hofman other than what others have told me. I have at least put my hands on a handful of Martin machines.

[Darcy Warner]

I may have something kicking around with a contact number. I like my 70's Martin machines, all their new electronic gizmos worry me.

[Patrick Walsh]

I would appreciate that Darcy.

All the electronic stuff scares me also. I’m a cabinet maker and not one with a fleet of guys making stuff for me. I’m one of the guys to be perfectly honest.

I really I would be able to get a machine with only digital readout of the spindle and manual every thing else. I’m not gonna get that from Martin these days but It was suggested to me I might get it from Hofman.

The art in jointer I’m not so worried about the electronics as they are pretty minor.

[David Kumm]

Let us know what you find out. Steve knows his stuff and my experience with all brands of machinery is that every redesign lightens the build. The machines become more user friendly with better ergonomics but lighter. Shapers in particular get lighter quills, bearings and structure. Good luck. Dave

[Peter Kelly]

I'm pretty sure it's LIMZ Machinery here in NYC. http://www.limzmachinery.com/contact.html

Could always try and import what you need from Germany if that doesn't pan out. I know Bort & Heckert are a Hofmann dealer. PM me if you need a contact person.

Might be considerably less expensive.

[David Kumm]

Hofmann is listed on the Limz site. Link goes to the company website but looks like Limz is the dealer. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

There is a distributor in the USA .. special order.. Email Hofmann and they will get back to you .. I obviously erased the email ..

I have 2 Martin Machines that are newer and they are the two nicest machines in my shop.

[Peter Kelly]

As I remember it, there was also a French company still making some extraordinarily nice and fairly straightforward classical machinery, very similar to older Martin, Kölle, Bäuerle.

Chambon? Name escapes me at the moment.

[Joe Calhoon]

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Looked at a couple Hofmann vintage shapers yesterday.

[Joe Calhoon]

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1950s Martins bought new by the Grandfather of this shop owner. Best vintage machine so far is Okoma tenoner in mint condition.

[peter gagliardi]

Hofmann is still a cast iron machine from my understanding talking with Joe. Build quality is supposed to be every bit as good as Martin.
I have owned old and new Martin. The electronics can speed things up, but they can also be glitchy, and all the built in safety "features" can really slow down working speed.
Punching in a dimension for the fence on a slider, then waiting for it to adjust is annoyingly slow.
I have spoken with Laurence from Limz, very nice and approachable guy.

[Joe Calhoon]

I enjoyed restoring my vintage Martin shaper but no comparison to functionality, accuracy and repeatability of my 2003 T26. The old Martin jointer was nice but hard to beat the ball bearing fence and one hand tilt function on the newer ones.
Hofmann is nice. Outstanding is their jointer - planer that can function in both modes without moving the tables. The other is their shaper that tilts to 90. Panhans and Vertongen had similar but not cast construction. Martin composite construction is as vibration free as Hofmann cast.
Here is a 1990s J-P. Fence is lacking but new Hofmann’s have a fence similar to Martin’s
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Only have my phone so tough to post

[Darcy Warner]

2003 is old if you ask Martin.

The mid to late 90s stuff is a total headache when it comes to all the obsolete electronic gizmos.

The old t75s and t17s are simple a joy to use.

Rather have 4 cheaper shapers than try to do everything on one fancy machine.

[Patrick Walsh]

Thank you everyone for the insite. My boss was able to get in touch with the Hofman distributor today. We got some off the cuff pricing being he was boarding a plane as he answered the call.

I’m pretty sold on the Hofman 20” jointer. Only problem is fitting the machine In our freight elevator as we are on the third floor of a old mill building.

I can get a 20” machine in on the diagonal up to 128”. That would allow me to go with the 20” Hofman with the 150mm infeed and outfeed table. Sadly the extended 2000mm infeed table and standard 1500mm outfeed table will not fit.

That being said I’m leaning hard towards the Martin with the extended length infeed table at 78” and the standard 42” outfeed table.

I would love nothing more than either machine with the extended infeed and outfeed tables but I just can’t make it work.

My choice towards the Martin is based on feeling the longer infeed table will ultimately be of the most use to me.

Who knows though I could very well just end up with the 20: Hofman with 1500mm infeed and outfeed tables.

Anywho, if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject please feel free to share.

[Warren Lake]

can you lift one end up so its tilted that would shorten the length. Likely a table can be removed as well.

[Patrick Walsh]

I suppose but man I’m not gonna wanna be screwing around with brand new machine like that. I’m not taking a table off then having to get it setup right again.

Now if I was willing to do this I would be going for the 24” machine with optioned with both a 2000mm infeed and outfeed table.

Completely overkill but I would at least know I would never have a reason or ‘want’ to buy another jointer.

[peter gagliardi]

Would you mind sharing the costs, or at least the differential between the two?
I'm guessing that to get the tables off and back on that its a couple hour job. I would buy the larger machine, and negotiate them getting it into your space and setup cutting properly- you're only gonna get the chance at this once, get exactly what you want.
Personally I do not like dissimilar length tables. Whatever infeeds, has to be supported by the outfeed, if not, you are pushing down unnecessarily to balance, and that isn't good.
I have auxiliary tables on my American jointer. They are set to dead flat at 1/8" cut, and I have about 7 1/2-8' of in and outfeed.
Makes all the difference for us, as we frequently run 14-16' long stock.

Martin uses shorter length tables with a bolt on adder to get the longer length. Not my favorite approach, but if accurately machined, there will be no working difference.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

You are just around the corner from me. I’m in natick but the shop is in stow. I was told by the Martin rep you also have a t26. I almost purchased a lightly used one a month or so ago. I got cold feet being it was a 2000 and the posability of the dual control going.

I tried to pm you but could not figure out how. For whatever reason I think I must have messed with some settings. The site layout appears different to me And I can’t for the life of me figure out how to send a pm.

I suppose to some degree you are right with the table removal. I guess I just consider doing such a potential disaster. For instance we may have to move our shop in the next number of months as the building is being sold. If so I can’t help but wonder what it’s gonna cost me to have the machine setup again if I have to take it apart to make this move.

The pricing was just on the fly and not definitive form Limz. Definitive pricing is coming, the pricing was based on fully manual machines with the suvamatic guard configured as in stock currently in USA..

I think there was or is a 16” machine with 1500 mm infeed and outfeed tables for like 16-17k. Then a 20’” machine with the extended infeed table for like 23k. Compare this to a t54 with souvamatic, extended infeed, plug for power feeder delivered for $25500..

To your point on matching infeed and outfeed tables. I have the Aigner extension tables, I use them on my Felder machine in my personal home shop. Setup is important but quick for the most part. I use a 10’ Stabilia R beam level and have had great luck jointing heavy long boards. 12/4x6-8”x16’ pretty much no problem. Hardest part is moving the piece form the outfeed table back to the infeed table. Tiring but the results are near perfect over the whole length without even trying. Satisfying work, I must have a sickness.

I really wish I trusted myself or had the hands on experience to take these machines apart and put them back together. It never seems like a good time to learn when you need said machine to make a weeks pay.

[Warren Lake]

ive jointed 14-16 foot 8' wide stock several times on the SCM combo. I checked MM which I dont use and each table is 850 mm plus the space between. I had support both sides.

I have a griggio 20" and just measured each table is 1270 mm plus the space between short by your dimensions however ill be spoiled and that much easier when I use it. Pretty much all your work is done on the outfeed table and at some point its enough so you are paying for more support.

The only thing I dont like about the multiple rollers they need to be close to perfectly parallel or boards will walk sideways. think last time I just had a stand with waxed melamine past the outfeed and it worked fine. It was only 4/4 pine so it was light but ive done 12 foot 2" hard maple in the same width as well certainly not as much fun.

I dont see an issue with tilting a machine in your freight elevator you could weld up a simple dolly with a hinge it and use a car scissor jack to tilt it. You are doing some long heavy lengths is that material staying that way? my 16 foot stuff stayed just about the full length with ends trimmed to length.

while on the getting material back do you think going back over the knives is negative or positive, I even wonder about a hand plane and dragging it back as well. I usually dont.

I would make a tilting dolly before id take a table off each one will have its own system. One combo I have I did take the tables off and no issues but they are always in movement anyway and a compromise compared to a fixed table jointer, certainly not as solid.

[Mike Wilkins]

Got to this thread late due to business travel.
I used to have a catalog from Laguna Tools which had the Hoffman jointer and combo machines. Don't know if Laguna still imports these, but worth a try. Good luck.

[David Kumm]

How close does the SCM L'Invincible series come to Martin and Hofmann? Anyone with experience? Dave

[peter gagliardi]

Dave, fit and finish is just not there on the new SCM line from my observations. As a matter of fact, I have had the SCM people come right out and tell me that their fit and finish would probably never be the equivalent of the German makers.

Patrick, I have 2 T26 shapers. 1 is a duo-control, the other just basic DRO and motorised height and tilt. Pluses and minuses to both. This era of electronics has far fewer issues than the newer stuff. I didn't hesitate to buy the duo-control. It is an '06 that I bought last year with a total of only 53 running hours on the meter.

I will say, the 60's era T21 cast iron shaper I had was not as quick to swap operations, but it was a far,far smoother running machine than the newer composite framed Martins. And the new ones are pretty smooth.
Nothing beats cast iron for smooth running in my experience, despite claims otherwise. Of course bearings do come into play as well.
A cast iron oil bath ball bearing -ed machine will beat a grease bearing machine any day for smooth, and a babbitt bearing-ed machine beats oil bath ball bearings as well for smoothness, and longevity.

I am not too far away, I will pm you my info if you have any questions .

Even the Euro jointers are pretty simple machines- yes parallelogram, but simple to adjust. I would bet an old Oliver jointer would be harder to dial in than any of the new offerings.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I have special interest in this thread because i am probably the newest owner of a Martin T45 planer. So new in fact, my planer was just completed a few days ago and is waiting to be shipped to North Carolina.
My two cents:
The topic of new electronics in new machines has been discussed here numerous times. My thoughts are, in every manufacturing sector these days, modern machinery with all its electronics far outweigh older machines in terms of of efficiency and profits.
I just looked at the Hofmann planer (website) and it is VERY similar to the Martin. Both have motorized table height, both have electronic variable speed feed, and an electronic interface. In fact, both planers have many similar “options” to customize their utility to the customer’s requirements. I did not see a “Helical” head or the “Contour” option(s) for the Hofmann.
I couldnt find the wieght of the Hofmann. The Martin T45 weighs apx. 2700 lbs.
As far as diminishing build quality... I toured the Martin Factory exactly one year ago today and i stood in the exact place where their proprietary concrete is filled into their Heavy steel frames. A process that Martin has done for nearly 95 years.
Anything Martin does not manufacture in their factory gets outsourced to other companies within Germany.

My feeling is this... If its built in Germany, you are going to be very happy with your investment. Like Dave K. said.. “you’re probably splitting hairs between these two manufacturers. After my T60C slider purchase, i never even thought of looking at any other manufacturers.

One more thing, I have had two people who work for Martin tell me they think the best machine Martin builds is the T45.

Cheers

[Darcy Warner]

There is no poured in the frame concrete in any of my 70s era Martin machines, just wonderful thick cast iron.
Of course my math could be off and the 70s are more than 95 years old.

It's not the starters, or inverters, or drives I worry about. It's the PLCs that control everything taking a dump in 10 years and the software is out of date, not supported, etc and then what?

Had too many nice pieces of equipment rendered useless because of out of date/obsolete plc's.

[David Kumm]

Any idea how any of the high end companies are doing financially? Seems like martin had some issues years ago but I have no idea. Hofmann is family owned ( maybe Martin is too ) so no numbers would likely be available. Woodworking machinery is at best a flat business, and I know SCM depends on their CNC and other stuff to supplement their classical woodworking line. I wonder how long we will have choices on the high end.

Peter, I'm not a babbit guy so your comments are good to know. I have a T21 and the old bath precision bearings and mechanical drip system make for a last forever type machine. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Stopped by the Hofmann booth today and looked over the jointer and combo J/P. Nice machines, I would say the jointer is right there with Martin. The fence slides easy and tilts one handed, similar to Martin’s system in some ways. I believe the tables can be longer with 2 meter infeed and outfeed optional. And wider width optional. The manual spring joint adjustment is easier to use than Martin’s. This one had electric raising and lowering of the infeed table similar to Martin’s.
Martin makes their own spiral insert head and Hofmann outsources theirs from Italy. I would go Tersa anyway.

I don’t think you would go wrong with either machine. Martin has a better presence here and that might translate to better service.
The 24” combo machine is unique in that it can be operated without moving the tables. For large quantities if you wish to raise the tables they offer a air assist. Dust collection is well engineered for a combo. Fence movement is not as nice as the stand alone jointer but adequate.
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[John Sincerbeaux]

Don’t shoot the messinger!
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[John Sincerbeaux]

Joe, i’m thinking you’re in Nurnberg?

[peter gagliardi]

I'm guessing Fensterbau.
I think Joe said Martin switched over to the modular style vs cast iron back in the late 70's or early 80's because the town Martin is in became a spa or resort town, and they couldn't have any of that nasty foundry work going on there too.
I do like a planed table.
Material slides so much more effortlessly over it.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

I got your pm, long day at work. Going to be many many more long days whe I buy this machine.

I normally make it out your way aonce or twice a year. Next time I am heading that way I will surely look you up. It’s kind of you to extend the offer and help as you can.

I really love it out your way. I’d do just about anything to be able to live out there and make a living as I can 20 minutes outside Boston. I have my reservations for how realistic that is both long and short term unless well connected.

[Patrick Walsh]

Great pictures Joe.

The rep I am in touch with is at the same show it appears you are at. Man I would love to be there. Sadly to afford my machinery problem I have to work around the clock. Well not to bad only ten hours today.

That combo does look very nice indeed. I have a Felder combo and after problems with it at the time of purchase I promised never to buy a combo again. I know Felder and Hofman can not even be compared but my saying so much offers a point of reference as to why I want separate machines despite the beauty of the Hofman combo.

Man I just can’t decide Martin or Hofman. The pictures you just shared are pretty convincing. As for service I don’t really think in my area one will matter more than th other as servic techs for even Martin are not prevalent. Plenty of service techs just not Martin specific ones. Ideally a jointer will have no issues after delivery and enitial setup.

I’m told the setup on either the Martin or Hofman machine is plug it in and watch the purchaser smile.

[David Kumm]

Joe, Is there a Reinhard booth there? I've always wanted to see their sliding short stroke saw. Dave

[Joe Jensen]

I would be very worried about no local support. Also I suspect they are a very low volume supplier and I would have to wonder about long term survivability of the company

[Darcy Warner]

I would be very worried about no local support. Also I suspect they are a very low volume supplier and I would have to wonder about long term survivability of the company

So is Martin. I believe the produce 60 machines a year, maybe 70. That's not high volume either.

[Joe Calhoon]

So is Martin. I believe the produce 60 machines a year, maybe 70. That's not high volume either.
Martin produces about 1200 machines per year and sells about 100 plus or minus in the US

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe, Is there a Reinhard booth there? I've always wanted to see their sliding short stroke saw. Dave
I will look Dave, I think they are for the model making trade and have never noticed them at the trade shows.
i am in the market for a small table- sliding saw and thinking of going with Mafell Erika

[Joe Calhoon]

As for Martin vs Hofmann I don’t think you would go wrong with either. We are lucky to be able to get high quality standard joinery machines in this era of cost engineering and cutthroat competition.

Holz Handwerk is my favorite show with a lot of passion for the trade from both vendors and woodworker attendees. Same with shops we visit here. Most been in business for several generations with new blood coming in with fresh ideas. Great mixture of new technologies and old traditions.

[David Kumm]

Reinhard makes a small model type saw called the Precisaw but there is also a full sized saw with about a 40" stroke. Dave

PS. Joe, bring back a tenoning table for my T21 in your suitcase.

[Joe Calhoon]

I looked in the show book Dave and no mention of their company.
Saw a unusual fence on a old Martin shaper in one of the shops. Maybe a custom fence, new to me.
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Common in most every shop large and small is a late model Weinig Moulder. They make one moulder per day and one Conturex per week. Not uncommon to see a Conturex in 3 to 4 person shops.
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[Joe Calhoon]

Here is a pic of the Hofmann booth. The owner is the woman on the right side.
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And the Martin booth. Always a mob there.
they serve beer and snacks. Some of the larger companies serve full lunches
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This is the Utis booth. A French company that makes cast iron frame standard machines.
on display 800mm wide jointer,planer and a shaper
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Planer with sectional steel infeed, 2 rubber outfeed and Tersa knives
servo motors on shaper are AC instead of typical DC.
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[Jeff Bartley]

Joe,
How much more does the graffiti-painted Martin slider cost?😁
You must be having a blast at that show!

[Martin Wasner]

on display 800mm wide jointer

"How wide is your jointer?"

"Thirty one inches, no big deal....."

[peter gagliardi]

That hofmann shaper looks pretty nice.
Actually, even though the Utis and Hofmann are cast iron machines, they seem to go out of their way to make them appear blocky and modular.
I expect German machines to be "straightforward, no nonsense design" , but the French stuff I thought might have just a little design flair.
In the end, if they cut wood, that's the important part.
Always a great source of pics Joe.

[Patrick Walsh]

Joe you really made my day today with these pictures. I noticed them mid day after getting back from a small local trade show myself geared toward general contractors that do home renovations. I couldn’t help but think man I wanna get on a plane to Germany in the worst way this show stinks..

I’m so torn between the two machines, Hofman and Martin. The facts are I can only get a Hoffman machine into my elevator with the standard size tables. I’m really torn as I would love a 24” machine but fear I will be disappointed without a long infeed table. I can get the Martin machine with extended infeed table to fit in the elevator as mentioned prior.

I did ask my Martin rep about removing a table and I was told not a chance. And that it was and idea.

The Hofman shapers is a thing of beauty! The planer would make a excellent addition to the jointer next year after I come up for air from the jointer purchase.

A co worker brought up the topic of resale value and it really got me thinking. I have no intention of ever selling this machine but you just never know. I have only ever seen one used Hofman for sale and it was a very nice 20” machine 2008 I think and it sold for $9900. I can’t help but feel the Martin will command a higher resale value.

I am half inclined to give the Hofman a try and for whatever reason the machines excites me a bit more. I find this strange as Martin to date has always been my pinnacle. Maybe it’s just the allure of having something different, I don’t quite know.

However the flip side of my thinking is the lack of being able to have a extended infeed table on the Hofman coupled with the known quality of the Martin from everything from the fence ridding on bearings to having actually stood in front of a few t54’s and seen with my own eyes and felt with my hands the striking difference between a Martin and everything else makes me feel like the Martin Is the safer bet.

Who knows. If I can get the Hofman rep to package a planer and jointer maybe I can convince my boss to buy a machine also then the decision would be much more easy.

Anyhow enjoy the show. If you do find yourself in front of a t54 and don’t mind taking a few pictures. And maybe a 60 series saw ;)

[Martin Wasner]

Do you have to use the elevator? Can you use a boom lift, crane, or telehandler to get it in through a window?

If the longer tables are what you want, I'd look for some other possibilities.

The motor on my dust collector pooped the bed on Monday. My forklift goes to 15'6", unfortunately the motor is at about 17'. Ended up borrowing an engine hoist and strapping it to the forks to get some more height. It was sketchy, but it worked, and we had it reinstalled by the end of the day Wednesday. Some times you gotta get creative.

[David Kumm]

There are a couple of Martin jointers on Woodweb. Have you looked at them? Dave

[Darcy Warner]

The just under 8 foot total table length on my 30" jointer has served me just fine for years. I don't really do much edge straightening on it, that's what the mattison 404 is for.

[Joe Calhoon]

The long tables are nice for architectural Woodwork and doors where you can be working on large pieces. We bevel assembled doors on ours a lot. We have a SLR and the infeed jointer table on the T90 is over 6’ but find the 10’6” tables on a the jointer very useful. The 2000mm infeed and outfeed of the Hofmann would be nice but I won’t be making any changes at this point

[peter gagliardi]

And if I was in the market for a new longbed jointer, access would not stop me from getting exactly what I want, spending that kind of $$$$$$.
But like Joe, I probably am not changing any time soon.

[Patrick Walsh]

Martin,

I know it can be done as I’m told a former tenant years ago moved a shop into the same space my boss now rents with a crane.

I used a crane to move a machine up and over my house and onto a platform so I could then get into my personal shop. I have a garden of mostly large rare specamin trees and can’t barely fit a pallet jack throught the path that meanders through it all. It was pretty easy for the most part other than the fact that your average crane operator does not often understand fragile machinery that can’t just be lifted wherever they want. It took everything I had in me to remain patient and explain you can’t just lift these machines up however you want but only by very specific points. He wanted to hear nothing about it.

The following year I had a few 7k lb mature trees planted on my property again with a crane but another operator and the bone head dropped the boom to the ground taking down my chimney, clipping my roof destroying a very expensive fence and killing a very rare hard to find once in a lifetime specamin tree on the way down. Since, I’m kinda crane shy to say the least.

My days of being creative and taking risks with with very expensive machinery or purchases I can barely afford and or have worked 70hrs a week for months or years to afford are over.

Even propping the ,aching up on some kind of brace in the elevator sounds like asking for trouble to me. I can just see all kinds of things going wrong there. I don’t know maybe the forklift can lift one end up onto a platform from outside the elevator easy enough. But maybe it can’t, or maybe the machine tips over or, or ,or. I just assume not risk it.

[Patrick Walsh]

David,

I did notice those thanks for mentioning. I called on the one clean one in TN but it is sold. The other one has been for sale for a long long time and looks to have seen a hard life. I’m not really interested in a used machine as machines are something I just have no interest in taking a risk on. I just assume pay more for piece of mind ‘hence Martin/Hofman”.

I would had been open to the machine in TN but I would had flown down so I could run a few boards over it then trailers it home myself.

At the time that machine was availible I was actually looking to purchase a t20 or t26 shower with tenoning table. I had a deal fall through and could not find another suitable machine “shaper” to purchase. At the same exact time a used jointer my boss purchased a number of months ago started acting up again. After a number of repair techs trying to repair it to no avail then one telling me he knew the previous owner of the machine and that it had been a problem since it was purchased new I decided to hold off on the shaper and buy us a jointer.

I will get the shaper at some point but only when one shows up again out of a small one many shop in excellent condition or I will but a new Hofman or maybe even panhans if I can figure a way to import it and get it under power. I’m told I can use a transformer but I don’t really understand how to do this work myself. I want a high quality tenoning table and am not much interested in paying $40k for a Martin t-12. I’m not really much interested in spending $40k on anything but am willing to spend good money on a high quality used machine if it comes to market and it’s history is known. I’m also open to the entry level Hofman machine as I want a largely manual machine. The only problem with the Hofman machines is the lack of a true tenoning table.

[Patrick Walsh]

Darcy,

I have had many a repair tech that can’t be bothered to setup a jointer properly and or are struggling to do so suggest that if what you want to do is joint long boards than a slr is the tool for the job.

They might be right but as of now we don’t have the room for a slr or really the use to warrant the room.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

Previously that would have been my mentality also. I just can’t figure out exactly how to make it work. It does feel like a ton of money.

Previously the Martin was the machine of my dreams with the extended infeed. It wasn’t until people made mention of Hofman all its cast iron and being just as nice as mMartin of not nicer that really got me thinking.

Well that and the 24” capacity and 2000mm infeed and outfeed. After I made a cardboard template of that machine to see it’s footprint in my shop and then my elevator I was pretty sold on that machine. Well until I could get it in the building.

[Jeff Bartley]

Patrick,

So you're buying a jointer for your employers shop? If so, I'd figure out how to buy the jointer you really want. How long do you plan to let it live at your employers shop? How long do you plan to own it?

Can you tell us what jointer your boss has now that has been trouble from the start?

Thanks for letting us live vicariously!! It's so exciting to see machines like these.

One more question: what heads are available for the Hofman?

[Patrick Walsh]

Yes Jeff that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing.

To offer some perspective on the matter.

We are a small four man shop, one of us being a full time finisher. The boss sells installs and generally deals with all those things us guys that just want to build are not naturally inclined towards.

So it for the most part me and one other guy that will use the machine. The other guy building has been working in a shop since trade school and takes care of things and poses general respect for and consideration of others things namely expensive machinery.

The boss is a very very good guy,l. He does his best to take on interesting work for us. He generally gives us the freedom to build design come and go and work at a pace that suits us so long as we are being honest and he is making money. I'd say we have it pretty darn good. It's kind of like a small family, one hand washes the other and I really don't think anyone at weeks end does any better than the other including the boss. Overtime is generally unlimited and on the books and sub contract work offered and but only if we are interested. It's a very good situation fir a working guy like me. I feel reciprocating and helping as I can is theblesstvi can do.

The facts are at best he would buy a new scmi machine and imop that's terrible idea.

If I go my machine will come with me. Neither me nor my employer have any intention of me going anywhere. I'm quite happy we're I am and he is quite happy with me. You just never can say though but it's simple I will own the machine.

I have a shop at home outfitted fully with felder machines. If the need shall ever arise I will slowly replace those machines with the German machines. My plan is hopefully to move in the next couple years building a live work type dwelling with at least a 3-5K workshop space. If and at such a point I would probably bring my German machines home and sell my felder stuff. Who knows though as I work 70hrs a week and have zero time to use my own shop. Hence the machines I want to work on might as well be at work where I get to use them.

The machine we have at work is a 16" casadei.

[David Kumm]

Patrick, what motor voltages and hz will Hofmann offer? I would think if they have a US distributor they should source 60 hz 480v at least. A transformer is an easy wire up. I would want an isolation transformer with a 480 wye tap and some extra taps to adjust the output up or down to match your input voltage range. I'm assuming you either have 208 or 240 delta in the shop? Dave

[Jeff Bartley]

That sounds like an awesome set up Patrick! I'd be inclined to get everything you need in one shop so you can make the best use of your machines.

And I'd look into insurance on whichever machine you go with.

Where are you in Boston? I lived just outside Watham for a summer many years ago.

It interesting to consider different working markets: you either make a ton of money and pay a lot to live or make little and pay little. But it seems like when you're in the middle of a really high market the machines you can afford go up in value too. I guess that's why some folks around here commute into D.C.!

[Patrick Walsh]

David

I only make mention of voltage converters in reference to say sourcing a new shaper from say panhans whom I believe dues not have a us distribbutor.

Not sure exactly what we have in our shop but I believe it to be 240.

It would be very easy to find out as we have a house electrician that's been servicing the building since the beginning of time.


Patrick, what motor voltages and hz will Hofmann offer? I would think if they have a US distributor they should source 60 hz 480v at least. A transformer is an easy wire up. I would want an isolation transformer with a 480 wye tap and some extra taps to adjust the output up or down to match your input voltage range. I'm assuming you either have 208 or 240 delta in the shop? Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Jeff

I live in natick just 20 min due west of Boston.

Our shop is 40 minutes west in stow.

I would also be inclined to put all my machines in our shop at work but I also like having a project going on at home.

Also from time to time when andvif the need dues arise and it does working from home is always a option.

I would love nothing more than to live in mothers vermont or Montana or way up in the Canadian Rockies but I fear making a living and a living wage doing what I love would not be a option.

[Martin Wasner]

My days of being creative and taking risks with with very expensive machinery or purchases I can barely afford and or have worked 70hrs a week for months or years to afford are over.

Either mitigate the risk, or enjoy the jointer you don't want. If you can tilt it and get it in the elevator, that's the easiest for sure I'm guessing. Just weld up a skid at the desired angle and bolt it down. If you're willing to spend another $12000 on a jointer over something like an SCM, then what's $500 to have a skid made? Lowering it on is just a matter of slinging it on and using a chainfall to lower one side.

Or pay a rigger to do it. Make it real clear, you scratch this bitch or do anything I disapprove of, you own it. Anything. Capisci?


I just don't see the point in blowing a big wad of cash on something that isn't what you want. Sure, it's nicer than the casadei but why do it half ass'd when you can do it full ass'd?

[Patrick Walsh]

That's one perspective and one I previously have shared 100%

I guess I should really look into how to get the longer machine into my shop.

Where there's a will there's a way right.

So what that means I would buy a 24" machine with 2000mm infeed and outfeed so that what 160" long or 13 plus feet.

That's a huge machine!

Hmm why do these decisions always seem so hard to make. The machine configured that way would probably cost about $30K also.

Not sure why I'm willing to spend $25 but not $30k.

$30 just feels like ton of money. I can talk myself into $25 being like buying a used truck or crappy new car. $30 starts to feel like wow..


Either mitigate the risk, or enjoy the jointer you don't want. If you can tilt it and get it in the elevator, that's the easiest for sure I'm guessing. Just weld up a skid at the desired angle and bolt it down. If you're willing to spend another $12000 on a jointer over something like an SCM, then what's $500 to have a skid made? Lowering it on is just a matter of slinging it on and using a chainfall to lower one side.

Or pay a rigger to do it. Make it real clear, you scratch this bitch or do anything I disapprove of, you own it. Anything. Capisci?


I just don't see the point in blowing a big wad of cash on something that isn't what you want. Sure, it's nicer than the casadei but why do it half ass'd when you can do it full ass'd?

[David Kumm]

the government is paying about 1/3 of it if that helps. Question is can you make extra income from the extra expense? Dave

[Kevin Jenness]

That was my question as well. Do you get any monetary compensation for stocking your employer's shop with your machinery?

I have done that gratis in the past on a small scale to introduce new methods, but I would not again, especially with the kind of investment you are talking about.

[Larry Edgerton]

That was my question as well. Do you get any monetary compensation for stocking your employer's shop with your machinery?

I have done that gratis in the past on a small scale to introduce new methods, but I would not again, especially with the kind of investment you are talking about.

Ditto.
From past experiences I have learned that my tools stay in my shop. I bought them so "I" could make a living.

[Patrick Walsh]

I can't get into it online but let's just say maybe and yes..

For instance today I'm doing a side project making four fixed louvered shutters 43.5x38 out of clear hard maple that will get shot with clear cv.

They gotta be done first thing Monday morning. I go to start processing the material and the jointer is cutting crazy snipe. After two hours of screwing around with the jointer and my patients now far gone the material could only be salvaged my running all four sides through the wide belt. All in all it wasted at least three hours of my time.

I know many shops make due with jury rigged tools and that that half the skill of being a good cabinet maker is knowing how to make crappy machines get good results.

I am a very patient man until I'm not and I don't like much when I get frustrated so I try to availed it at all cost even if It is is expenve. My patients and thus piece of mind is well worth the money spent on quality machines.

I do hear you guys though about bringing ones tools to work.

To date I have not been willing to even contribute even my own hand tools to the shop as I know what happens. My fearveith thatbis mostly them walking off or someone dropping my straight edge or using one of my good chisels to scrape glue.

You can't really walk off with a jointer and unless your a real idiot it would be hard to hurt one.

Maybe it's stupidnof me but it seems I'm gonna find out the hard way if so? Edgerton;2794066]Ditto.
From past experiences I have learned that my tools stay in my shop. I bought them so "I" could make a living.[/QUOTE]

[Andrew Joiner]

They gotta be done first thing Monday morning. I go to start processing the material and the jointer is cutting crazy snipe. After two hours of screwing around with the jointer and my patients now far gone the material could only be salvaged my running all four sides through the wide belt. All in all it wasted at least three hours of my time.

I was going to stay out of this because I know it's hard to slow down "tool lust". Especially fine German machine lust!
First why not start with a new post -- Our jointer is cutting crazy snipe, we need help-- ?
When you say" wasted at least three hours of my time" are you paid by the hour?
Go ahead call me a crazy old retired cabinet maker, but your confusing me. I'm guessing you may have a unique handshake contract with your boss that's working out right now, but things can change fast in business.

[peter gagliardi]

So, the martin at $25.5k, is $1275 a lineal cutting inch.
The hofmann at $30k, is $1250 a lineal cutting inch. It is 4" wider, and about 2 - 2 1/2' longer. 26 square feet of freshly planed cast iron.
Anybody who sells new machines like that should know a competent rigger. A competent rigger should have no problem putting said machine where you are asking for around $1000-1500.00, unless there are difficulties we can't see, or you didn't describe. Especially if you have a window large enough on an accessible side of the building. Said rigger would probably pocket close to $500.00 an hour for their time.
That said, any person competent in machine setup should with a minimum of tools and time be able to assess and probably adjust the current machine perfectly.
First and foremost would be to determine casting defects, such as non flat, or twisted tables, then on to bent or broken internal adjustment parts.
If the machine checks out, proper adjustment should be an hour or two.
Total for above shouldn't be more than $5-800 depending on the "port to port " time of the tech.
Far less if someone in the shop takes the initiative to learn the machines quirks.
Something to remember would be that, at some point in the future, even a new machine might need this attention.
Unless your current machine suffered some damage causing it's issue.

I am following this with much interest, and not trying to talk you out of a dream machine- because I would then probably call you to check it out when down your way.

While I would love to have your dream jointer, there is no way, short of winning a lottery, that I do not play that I would dump that kind of cha-ching on that simple of a machine.
No doubt that a machine of that caliber will be called upon to do some very fine work, but it will also see some of the most drudging and abusive work.
I would and could find a machine that could handle that for probably 10's of thousands less.
I would then, invest that savings on a very efficient shaper with tenoning table.
But....... I have no idea exactly what type of processes and work you do. What made sense for my typical workload may not for your's
I currently have a 3 toed 16" American jointer that I bought for $1200.00 . Some years after, I ground the worn tables flat for $200.00. Some years later still I retrofitted it with a Terminus 4 knife head for $2400.00
It was inconvenient, it took time, it is not as wide or long as a new Euro machine. But with fresh knives, I can produce the exact same level of work with the same exact input of labor units.
I do not have the luxury of 13' of table, and I do wish I did, but the job gets done.
Just some more info for further thought.
I love cool and new tools just as much, and maybe more than some other folks, but my value analysis like peoples opinions is just different.
I really dislike having to invest "troubleshooting, adjustment and repair" time, but some level of it is necessary in our line of work.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have to agree with Peter. Unless your current jointer has completely s--- the bed you should be able to adjust it to work properly- in fact you will have to for some indefinite period unless that Hoffman jointer is sitting in a warehouse on this side of the pond.

There's no way I would be putting a $30k machine in someone else's shop on my dime unless under lease and ironclad insurance. I'm pretty sure I could struggle along with the new SCMI jointer you say your boss is willing to buy. Best of luck.

[Larry Edgerton]

.
I am following this with much interest, and not trying to talk you out of a dream machine- because I would then probably call you to check it out when down your way.

While I would love to have your dream jointer, there is no way, short of winning a lottery, that I do not play that I would dump that kind of cha-ching on that simple of a machine.
No doubt that a machine of that caliber will be called upon to do some very fine work, but it will also see some of the most drudging and abusive work.
I would and could find a machine that could handle that for probably 10's of thousands less.
I would then, invest that savings on a very efficient shaper with tenoning table.
But....... I have no idea exactly what type of processes and work you do. What made sense for my typical workload may not for your's
I currently have a 3 toed 16" American jointer that I bought for $1200.00 . Some years after, I ground the worn tables flat for $200.00. Some years later still I retrofitted it with a Terminus 4 knife head for $2400.00
It was inconvenient, it took time, it is not as wide or long as a new Euro machine. But with fresh knives, I can produce the exact same level of work with the same exact input of labor units.
I do not have the luxury of 13' of table, and I do wish I did, but the job gets done.
Just some more info for further thought.
I love cool and new tools just as much, and maybe more than some other folks, but my value analysis like peoples opinions is just different.
I really dislike having to invest "troubleshooting, adjustment and repair" time, but some level of it is necessary in our line of work.

I was thinking along the same lines. I lust after the German candy just like everyone else, but I have an SCM jointer I bought used that has been right on the money since I first set it up. Sure sometimes I would like bigger/better but this one always gets the job done and there are better places for me to spend money, things that will speed up the process or just make it easier on my old bones. For example my planer has done more than any machine to smooth out the processes.

But if my wife ever wins the lottery like I told her to, my shop will be the best of the best, just so I can play, no more customers, Yahoo!

I give her one simple job to do, but Noooo..........

[Patrick Walsh]

I hear where you guys are going with this but I assure you this is a good decision for me and there is more to it that I can’t share out in the open.

I’m sure actually I know my boss is reading this thread. Not that there is anything to not say here I that I can’t say or have not said to him and visa versa.

I don’t expect that the machine will live in his shop for the rest of his days. To date my uncle has actually managed the building he rents in and at some point there is a good chance when space comes availible I rent space myself.

Or as suggested I build my dream shop when and if I move and the machine comes home with me. Or I move on and I drag the machine into my now shop. There are a million scenarios and I assure there is something motivating this decision and driving me to make such a decision and I assure you it’s not some hand shake deal or my boss twisting my arm. Actually probably just the opposite.

Anyway this thread has been fun and I hope continues to be fun. I like having something to dream about and work towards.

For a point of reference my intent is to purchase on high quality forever machine at a time that ultimately will become my dream shop that some sad sack will have to tend to when I’m long gone. My work is my fun and my fun is my work. I don’t much worry about tomorrow even if I should. I kinda just do what makes me happy today and what I hope will make me happy tomorrow.

With that said the Martin with extended infeed table is abou as big a machine my home shop can handle so that will probably be the route I go unless Hofman will give me and the boss a deal we can’t pass up and my boss buys a planer.

I understand full well that anjointer is a joint is a jointer. I have Felder AD941 that was a nightmare on delivery and took two technicians like 6-7 visits and about 36hrs to setup. Don’t ask as I still don’t know. I know this it joints and planes a board dead nuts perfect everytime without even thinking about how your passing the workpiece over or under the tables.

So this is less about what I need and more about what I want..

[Darcy Warner]

Oh, I am pretty sure I could really mess up a new jointer.

I was suppose to use clean lumber? Oh whoops.

I am afraid I am missing what some snipe off a jointer will ruin? Parts are always batches out long.

Only time I get snipe on my jointer is when my 7 year old lowers the outfeed table when I am not looking, at that thing is 106 years old.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh and ther is no grantee the boss purchases both a Scmi jointer and planer in this scenario.

I suppose there is a chance but I suspect i]he could only really afford one or the other and we need both. Hence I’m pushing for him to buy a machine and me to buy a machine and resolve our lumber processing issue.

With that said that is about as far as I want to go with the above commentary online. Anyone who would like to offer a oppinion or thoughts should feel free to personal message me. I dint say some much in attitudinal way but in a for the self preservation of all involved parties..

[Patrick Walsh]

The outfeed table on our currant machines lowers at will regardless of how the adjustment bolt and nut are tended to. Sure i oversize my material but depending on how much the machinenhas movere since last used the snipe might be .5-6’.

I dint know about you but I try not to oversize material much more than a few inches at most on either end.

We also pass a lot of long material on edge over the machine for ff material and depending on what that stupid bolt did since the last time we used Catherine machine you either get a fairly straight board or not even close.

We don’t have a slrs and I know that’s the machine for that job. The fact is we are not getting one as we don’t have the room.

[peter gagliardi]

Well, if it is what you want, you have to figure out what is necessary so it happen-compromise of some type.
I will be a bit bummed though. I have already seen several Martin jointers, even tried one.
Nice machine.
But then I will have to keep looking for a Hofmann owner to go and check out their machine. Dang.

Even if you had an SLR, the simple fact is, it will not put a straight edge on lumber that hasn't been flattened over the jointer. So, you are right, you "need" a jointer, it would be "nice to have" an SLR, if you get to a point where you have the space.
It will do "pretty straight" or "almost straight" , which is less than ideal.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well that’s pretty funny Peter.

If my boss decides to buy a planer than I will probably go Hofman. This is largely contingent on package pricing.

On;y time will tell. I would also like to see a Hofman jointer to be quite honest. Even better before I potentially purchase one..

Sounds like they might be in Atlanta this year. If so I may just have to hold of and go take a look first?


Well, if it is what you want, you can make it happen- I will be a bit bummed though. I have already seen several Martin jointers, even tried one.
Nice machine.
But then I will have to keep looking for a Hofmann owner to go and check out their machine. Dang.

[Rick Fisher]

I compared the SCM Invincible planer to the Martin when I was deciding. The SCM actually had a feature that Martin didn't; Pneumatic roller wheels. In Canada I work in both imperial and Metric all the time.. With Martin you press a button for 4 seconds and the machine switches to or from Metric. When I asked the process on the SCM, I never did get an answer..

In the end I bought a Martin T-45 with a helical head. With Variable speed its just under 3000 lbs. Its a beautiful machine, Quiet, solid, Vibration free and extremely nice fit and finish.

The deciding factors for me where #1 customer service. Martin is amazing. They are really knowledgeable and well trained. #2 Resale.. In our area, a used Martin machine is impossible to find and when available sells in hours.

The Martin was more money than the SCM .. but I was only buying one.. No regrets..

[Patrick Walsh]

My boss actually priced the l invincible if for nothing else to see how everything stacks up. I think we were able to get a package deal of like 27k for both l invincible machines.

Call me crazy and maybe I am but I have zero interest in spending 27k on a whole shop of Scmi machines. That’s just me though, I know what I like, I know what I want and when or if I buy something I didn’t want I might as well have not bought anything as it pains me to even look at it and get zero enjoyment from it.

I just assume bust may bum have what I want if for no other reason but to avoid the disappointment I find In settling. Most everything in my life I approach from this perspective. Working hard or a zillion hours has never once upset me as I really really like working. This perspective or approach does not always work in my favor and at times works against me but it’s how I am and I have come to accept it. It can be my biggest asset and it be my biggest shortcoming. With regard to my work it has proven to be extremely valuable and has gotten me where I am and I’m very happy where I am so...


I compared the SCM Invincible planer to the Martin when I was deciding. The SCM actually had a feature that Martin didn't; Pneumatic roller wheels. In Canada I work in both imperial and Metric all the time.. With Martin you press a button for 4 seconds and the machine switches to or from Metric. When I asked the process on the SCM, I never did get an answer..

In the end I bought a Martin T-45 with a helical head. With Variable speed its just under 3000 lbs. Its a beautiful machine, Quiet, solid, Vibration free and extremely nice fit and finish.

The deciding factors for me where #1 customer service. Martin is amazing. They are really knowledgeable and well trained. #2 Resale.. In our area, a used Martin machine is impossible to find and when available sells in hours.

The Martin was more money than the SCM .. but I was only buying one.. No regrets..

[Frank Drackman]

[QUOTE=Patrick Walsh;2793992]Jeff

I live in natick just 20 min due west of Boston.

Natick, The Home of Champions!

[Patrick Walsh]

Doug flutie baby...

You must be a former natick resident or current?


[QUOTE=Patrick Walsh;2793992]Jeff

I live in natick just 20 min due west of Boston.

Natick, The Home of Champions!

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe,
How much more does the graffiti-painted Martin slider cost?
You must be having a blast at that show!

Jeff, they sell them but not sure what the up charge is. They will do custom colors as well but I am sure it is costly.
My favorite was this one a couple years ago.
382340
Hofmann faux finished one of their mortiser drills a few years ago.

382341

Mr Soukup’s son did some art work on the machines this year. If you look close the tool stack outline is in the art. Fun stuff!

382342
382343

[Frank Drackman]

NHS 1977. East Natick near Oak & Route 9. Have a kid named Casey!

[Patrick Walsh]

Frank I was born 11/19/1977 I grew up on Plane St and now live over in the Walnut Hill neighborhood off North Ave.

That kid is he names after Casey’s by chance?

Where are you now?


NHS 1977. East Natick near Oak & Route 9. Have a kid named Casey!

[Frank Drackman]

Frank I was born 11/19/1977 I grew up on Plane St and now live over in the Walnut Hill neighborhood off North Ave.

That kid is he names after Casey’s by chance?

Where are you now?

Yes, Casey is named after the diner.

I had lots of friends who grew up in your area, North ave, Sawin, etc. After many stops I live in Maine. Was at St. Pats a few weeks ago for a funeral. Going to a party at LaCantina in Framingham in a few weeks. One of our kids live on Washington ave. Wife's sister lived downtoan on Sheridan St.

[peter gagliardi]

IWF is a great place to see most of the bigger players in one place, and compare notes going back and forth. You might even run into Joe at the Martin booth.
Martin does an excellent job of staffing their booth with knowledgable people, and can demo just about any operation.
Some other companies, not so much. I walked away from one booth last time wondering why they bothered to cart their classical machine line down there if no one could talk to, or demonstrate to an interested party.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

If I don’t buy a machine prior to the show I will 100% go.

I’m told one can get great deal at and around the show and that most companies stock is low for months after the show.

I’m also told Martin does not really negotiate price. I can still hope Hofman will negotiate. If not it might not be worth the air fare. On the other hand I’m sure I will be like a kid in a candy store and if Hofman did go this year “ I’m told previous years they have not” then it might help mitigate my back and forth of one manufacturer to the other.

Facts are there is a good chance I buy the machine before the show.

As for staff lacking knowledge I’m not surprised. This is one of the reasons I’m so willing to pay a premium for a machine. After spending tens of thousands of dollars if something goes wrong I fully expect to be able to get someone on the phone. I also expect them to helpful vrs additional. I would also hope and expect part to be readily availible. This may be a tall order for any manufacturer those days but by the sounds of it this is exactly what Martin offers over it competitors?

I
IWF is a great place to see most of the bigger players in one place, and compare notes going back and forth. You might even run into Joe at the Martin booth.
Martin does an excellent job of staffing their booth with knowledgable people, and can demo just about any operation.
Some other companies, not so much. I walked away from one booth last time wondering why they bothered to cart their classical machine line down there if no one could talk to, or demonstrate to an interested party.

[Darcy Warner]

Have you ever called Martin? Last time I called looking for parts for a late 90s machine, they acted like they wanted to call me back collect.

SCM group is not much better.

Best phone support/customer service has been from Weinig, Northfield and the guy that bought Oakley.