Bandsaw decision Rikon 10-347 or laguna 18bx?

[erin patton]

Hello all! I pretty much had my mind set on buying the Rikon 10-347, but realized today that they are back ordered until the 1st of May from the supplier I was going to use. After seeing that I noticed that the laguna 18bx was on sale for $1800. The 347 was $2000.

I'm wondering what you guys would do? Wait till May or buy the laguna?

$2000 is at the top of my budget. Also, both of these saws are bigger than I probably need at this time, but my bs situation isn't good right now. I own a crapsman 12" that needs new tires.

The new saw will be used for resaw and general use.

Ty, Erin

[David M Peters]

Looking at the specs (Rikon (https://www.rikontools.com/product/10-347) / Laguna (https://lagunatools.com/classic-machinery/bandsaws/18bx-bandsaw/)), I'd say wait 'till May, for these reasons:

* Better motor
* Longer blade
* It weighs more
* Far better warranty period

I have a Laguna 1412 and am generally please with its ceramic blade guide system; I wish I could offer a comparison to the bearing-style used on the Rikon saw but can't.

[erin patton]

Thanks for the reply David. Waiting is the thing to probably do. One thing I'm puzzled by is that apparently the 347 is a hot saw right now for the price, and I can't find very much info on it online. No reviews, no videos, no bad comments... hardly anything. I can't even find when it replaced the 346.

I'm going to call a few places tomorrow to see if they have any. We'll see what happens.

[Art Tripp]

After many hours of research and trips to multiple dealers to look at the various options in the 14 - 18" bandsaw range, I chose the Laguna 18BX and have never looked back. I like everything about the machine and would recommend it without hesitation.

In the end, I think a person could be satisfied with most any of the Laguna, Rikon, Jet, as well as Grizzly and some other bandsaws, and the specific saw likely comes down to what an individual purchaser needs and wants, and the saw's particular features.

I created a variety of charts listing each saw's features side by side, and am well satisfied with the performance of the 18BX. I haven't found the 3hp on the Laguna to be lacking any performance capability and it handles cutting without a problem, though the Rikon does have 4hp. I really like the ceramic guide system on the Laguna and this was one of the more important factors in my final choice of saws. I'm not a big fan of the fence accessory on the Rikon for resawing, though haven't used one either. The fence stop on the Laguna is handy and I like the option of being able to flip it down for accurate repeat cut depths. I also like how the dust collection ports come out on the same side of the machine on the Laguna and am not a fan of the upper discharge on the Rikon which would intrude into the workspace area of my shop. I had been shopping for a while and when my local dealer had the saw at 10% off, plus had the saw in stock for pick-up (saving the $75 shipping charge that most dealers include), I pulled the trigger.

I chose the 1" Laguna Resaw King (though the saw is rated for up to 1-1/4", I prefer to work in the more moderate capabilities of my equipment and not push everything to the max) for resaw work. My other two blades are the Lennox Diemaster-2 blades with 1/2" 4tpi and 1/4" 6tpi.

In the end, I don't think you would be dissatisfied with either machine.

[erin patton]

Thanks for the reply Art. I know I would be happy with both of these saws. It's hard to pass on the 5 year warranty though.

Rocker and woodcraft both carry laguna and rikon and are about an hour drive from me. But, they don't carry anything over 14". I haven't seen either of these saws in person.

[Matthew Hills]

Do people find the warranty periods to be especially useful?

My impression is that most problems I've read about in forums have come up immediately, and I'm not aware of any manufacturer that has been totally immune to those issues.

Matt

[David Kumm]

They both look similar enough to be made in the same factory. Rikon comes from Qing Dao plant in China. Where is Laguna made? Dave

[erin patton]

Mathew, tbh it's just a talking point that gives me the warm fuzzy feeling! In all reality if I had had a claim in 4 years it would probably be like pulling teeth to have them honor it.

David, I'm not sure where laguna is made. Maybe Art knows. What is your opinion of either of these saws? There doesn't seem to be anything I can find in the used market right now.

[David Kumm]

Erin, it depends on how much resawing you will do. I've not had good luck with even the ACM 18" saws for more than occasional resaw. I like carbide blades at high tension which take more machine. Dave

[richard poitras]

I like the ceramic guides on my Laguna. I have had different saws with other guilds including one of the Rikon, Delta, and Grizzly saws all with ball bearing guilds and the ceramic are the best in my opinion.

[erin patton]

I won't be doing a lot of resawing in the near future, but I want the option if I need it down the road.

[erin patton]

This is the only thing better about the laguna compared to the rikon imo.

[Matthew Curtis]

I chose the Laguna when it was on sale black Friday. Picked it up same day. I also was looking at other saws but I do not think you can beat the Laguna guides. They are great. I have used everything from 1/8" to 1 1/4" blades on it. Works great. Nice big table. Foot break is great. The only down side is I had to move it . It is a big heavy saw. Very little to no vibration.

[erin patton]

After calling around this morning, it looks like end of april, first of may is when the next batch will be ready. The laguna will be in stock this week. Looks like I have some more thinking to do.

[Art Tripp]

I can't recall ever using any warranty services in the past, nor having an experience of something going bad in a reasonable period of time in which a longer warranty would have covered. The caveat to this would be my Craftsman hand tools (many of which are 30+ years old) and garden hoses of which I have had several items replaced over the years. I often try to buy a better quality equipment and have been satisfied with their performance, and while most things can eventually wear out, I haven't had any regrets from the overall service the equipment has given before finally failing and needing repair or replacement. A longer warranty can be something to consider and isn't a bad thing to have if ever needed. I also never opt for the optional extended warranty on anything when offered, and they are overwhelmingly structured for the seller to have the best odds of benefiting, and not for the consumer to financially benefit.

I was originally looking at the 14" - 15" bandsaws (Rikon, Jet & Laguna) and to see the various saws I had to travel an hour each way in three different directions (nice family day-trips with my CFO / wife alongside). Interestingly, one of the dealers had an 18" Jet on the floor and my initial impression was that it seemed much too big. The final dealer though had the Laguna 18BX on the floor, and while it was not on the list of saws I was considering (and was outside of my original budget range), I quickly grew quite drawn to it and after further research it became my number one choice and I now have one sitting in my shop.

Perhaps I am a bit paranoid, but with a big-ticket item and something that I want to perform more as a precision piece of equipment, I strongly find myself leaning toward purchasing new. I really like the security of knowing I am starting with something fresh and that hasn't had some type of abuse at some point. Granted though, there are bargains to be found in the used market, particularly if you can find newer or slightly used equipment.

The tag on my Laguna states that it is from Tiawan, but other than that, I'm not sure of any other specifics as to it's plant or origin. The world of manufacturers and their locations, as well as where the various components might originate reaches further than I have really researched, and my focus has often been on the overall product. Given two identical items of the same quality and price, one made entirely in the USA and the other of foreign origin, I would gladly choose the USA item - though that is rarely an option ever available.

In the final course of my decision making, I chose to go with a larger 18" saw over the 14-15" saws so as to not work within the upper limits of it's capabilities for resaw (tension issues) or other larger requirements. I actually had some concerns if there were any disadvantages of a larger saw over the smaller ones, but this hasn't been an issue at all. With this, the Laguna is rated for a 1/8" to 1-1/4" width blade and at the present my smallest blade is 1/4" which cuts nicely. I think I would like to do some work with a smaller 3/16" blade at some point though for tighter curves on craft-type items and I am not sure which direction I will go for sure, either a 3/16" blade for the 18BX or possibly the purchase of a 10" Rikon or perhaps a used 14" bandsaw - primarily fill the gap between my 18BX and my scroll saw and necessitate less overall blade changes. Still pondering.

Matthew Curtis... Do you have any input on using a smaller blade (1/8" or 3/16") with a Laguna saw? Do you use the standard Laguna guides, or have you used the Laguna "mini-guide" or the Carter "band saw stabilizer"?

[David Kumm]

This isn't directly on point but I can't let it go either. A bandsaw is not a precision machine. There have been no real improvements in bandsaws since the invention of ball bearings and AC motors. They are simple and depend entirely on materials used and quality of build. Unlike some other machines, newer saws are not a bargain in comparison to old. I ran an ACM LT18 which is higher end than either of the saws discussed here but it was mediocre in comparison to my Y20 made in 1938. Wheel balance and frame strength ( including the build of the tension spring mechanism ) are the primary factors that determine a good quality saw. Age is only relevant if the machine was marginal when new as are guides if the saws tensions high enough. Dave

[Bill Dufour]

where do you live? I might have a lead on a doall 1612 for a good price.
Bill D.

[Art Tripp]

This isn't directly on point but I can't let it go either. A bandsaw is not a precision machine. There have been no real improvements in bandsaws since the invention of ball bearings and AC motors. They are simple and depend entirely on materials used and quality of build. Unlike some other machines, newer saws are not a bargain in comparison to old. I ran an ACM LT18 which is higher end than either of the saws discussed here but it was mediocre in comparison to my Y20 made in 1938. Wheel balance and frame strength ( including the build of the tension spring mechanism ) are the primary factors that determine a good quality saw. Age is only relevant if the machine was marginal when new as are guides if the saws tensions high enough. Dave


In the overall scheme of things, the bandsaw is a quite simple concept and I didn't call it an actual precision machine. In the context of my reply, the bandsaw is "something that I want to perform more as a precision piece of equipment". I can perform a quality and detailed cut on a good bandsaw that many other saws can not perform, or not perform well - thus the 'more of a precision' reference.

With the proper and good machine, I can easily and cleanly resaw a board and also accurately cut alongside a marked curved line. With an inappropriate choice or a bad machine, I may or may not be able to even come close, producing a quite inferior result.

There are a multitude of bandsaws available from the cheap (not mentioning the brands) type, to the high-quality and high-priced deluxe models, bandsaws that are quite tiny or large enough that two people alone aren't going to budge, a difference between old and new, as well as neglected and used overly hard or those saws that have been properly cared for.

In regard to the specific Rikon and the Laguna saws (machines I consider to be quite comparable) and that are the focus of the post, the machines share many similarities as well as a variety of differences and personally I would think that a person could be satisfied with either machine with the final choice centering on the actual differences between the two machines. I looked closely at the Rikon, Jet and Laguna in my search and am quite satisfied with my choice - as are a majority of those folk that have chosen to go with the Rikon or Jet (or others).

[Charlie Hinton]

I have been thinking about one of these larger bandsaws too.
Wondering if the blade brake is worth having or not.
For those that have a saw with the brake how often you actually use it?
For those without the brake do you regret saving the $ or not?

[erin patton]

Bill, I live in West central Indiana.

[David Kumm]

My point was that expecting a new low to medium end machine to perform better as a precision piece of equipment than a used machine of similar price is in error. Condition is always a factor but there are as many horror stories of hobby grade machines needing work to run properly as of used machines that can't be made well. The beauty of used in the woodworking market is that true industrial equipment is available , often at less cost than hobby new. I read about the fear of no warranty or parts no longer available, but after 50+ used machines, I've yet to have a problem sourcing or making the few parts a good quality machine might need. The saws being discussed here are decent starter saws but there are better choices if one educates himself a little, has some patience, and is willing to solve a few problems along the way. A pallet jack and a VFD open a number of doors, including saws that will tension carbide blades and resaw at an efficient speed at a price competitive with new saws that won't. Dave

[erin patton]

Now that I've had more time to ocd about this I've found myself looking at the g0636 and the mm s400p. I know this changes my budget and the whole conversation.

I don't understand how some guys can take a mid level bs and resaw just fine and the next guy not have any luck at all.

If only that Rikon were in stock!

[Curt Harms]

Now that I've had more time to ocd about this I've found myself looking at the g0636 and the mm s400p. I know this changes my budget and the whole conversation.

I don't understand how some guys can take a mid level bs and resaw just fine and the next guy not have any luck at all.

If only that Rikon were in stock!

Different budget and different 'grade' of saw. One thing about the Grizzly 0636 or MiniMax is you're unlikely to be upgrading anytime soon. No one has mentioned repairing your Craftsman saw. Oftentimes 16" - 18" saws have trouble with small blades, 1/4" or smaller but those are the blades best for tighter curves or scrolling type work. Plus it can be a pain to swap blades between resawing/ripping and curve cutting/scrolling.

[Bill Dufour]

Bill, I live in West central Indiana.

Too far, I am in California. I suggest you look at a used Doall 1612 saw. Or even the 20". twice the weight of a woodsaw (1500 pounds or more) and more then strong enough to tension a carbide blade. Probably cost around 1200 on craigslist. For wood only you do not need the transmission version and can just run it at higher rpms with some pulley changes.
Bill D.

[erin patton]

Curt, I plan on repairing the craftman. I need to put new tires on it. The guy I bought it from years ago wants to buy it back for what I paid for it. I actually might just keep it.

[Art Tripp]

The blade brake is one of the features that wasn't a high priority during my bandsaw search, but after having it and putting it to use regularly, it is something that I truly like. It can take a long time for the blade to stop after shutting a machine off and having the ability to bring it to a stop more swiftly is a huge plus, not only to remove any small pieces that may be lingering near the blade, but to prevent inadvertent accidental contact with the blade while it is still quietly spinning, as well as in the event that something unfortunate would happen and there be a mechanical emergency.

I found myself finishing a cut and placing the finished piece on the assembly table, then returning to the saw to do additional work, only to find the blade still silently spinning and capable of inflicting a good bit of damage to whatever (or whoever) may come in contact. Losing awareness in that short period of time could have a bad result.

I have also found it handy to use the brake when going from one task to another, particularly those that require several saw adjustments, and instead of twiddling my thumbs waiting, I can move from one thing to another in short time.

Personally, I don't think that stomping on the brake and bringing the saw to an immediate stop would be a good practice, but a more gentle application of the brake can be an advantage and feature worth having.

[Nick Decker]

"I don't understand how some guys can take a mid level bs and resaw just fine and the next guy not have any luck at all."

My guess is it comes down to understanding and adjusting the saw correctly. I know I spent far more time setting up and understanding my bandsaw than any other tool I own. It's not hard, just different.

[Bill Dufour]

Get a three phase motor and use a vfd for slow start and braking.
Bill D.

[David Kumm]

Order the VFD with an additional brake resistor to handle the inertia. Well worth the slight additional charge. Dave

[lee cox]

I have been thinking about one of these larger bandsaws too.
Wondering if the blade brake is worth having or not.
For those that have a saw with the brake how often you actually use it?
For those without the brake do you regret saving the $ or not?

I have a Minmax 45 without a brake. I don't feel like I miss one but I have never owned a brake. I am not planning to get rid of this saw. I am happy.

[Bill Dufour]

Many of the cheap VFD's have no way to attach a brake resistor even if they have terminal screws they may not be attached electrically inside the vfd.
Are brake pedals on bandsaws normally controlling a switch as well? On metal lathes the foot pedal controls a brake pad and switch to turn off the motor in one step, literally
Bill D

[David Kumm]

Some saws do have a momentary stop attached to the brake lever. That would need to be wired through the vfd as well as the main start stop. I agree, a cheap vfd isn't on my radar list for my machines and it won't have the ability to do much more than coast to stop if the wheels are heavy. Dave

[Matthew Curtis]

I have used the stock guides with the 1/8 blade. It works well no issues. Granted I have not used it much. I usually have a 3/8 blade on it.

[Matthew Curtis]

I have been thinking about one of these larger bandsaws too.
Wondering if the blade brake is worth having or not.
For those that have a saw with the brake how often you actually use it?
For those without the brake do you regret saving the $ or not?

The 18bx is my first big saw. I love the brake and use it almost every time. It keeps my hands focused on the workpiece. It is almost second nature to stop the saw now.

[erin patton]

Does anyone know anything about a mid 80s scmi sc900 36" bandsaw?

I'm set up to run 3ph, but one thing that bothers me is having to turn on my phase converter to juse make a few cuts. Now, for extended use my dust collection would be on bc it's 3ph.

I just kinda like the idea of having my bandsaw be 220 just for quick use.

As you can tell, the ocd is out of control!

Erin

[David Kumm]

i think Centauro made the SCM saws back then too. Some were still cast iron but most were steel framed. Great saws and 36" will handle 1" Carbide. I run a 36", 30" and 20". The 36" doesn't get much use as the 30" handles most resawing and the 20 gets the narrow blade. I would not want to change blades in a 36" often. It is most handy when set up with a blade you use 95% of the time. If it runs smooth, tires are good, and motor isn't shot, it will cut anything you throw through it. A good motor is critical as they aren't cheap to repair or replace. Dave