Rabbet plane for cove molding

[Mark Rainey]

Making cove molding by hand. I have to hog off a lot of wood - cherry long grain with some irregular grain. Before I get to the round plane I am running a rabbet over well over one wide & one inch deep. My blue Record 778 is weak for the task. It looks like LN 10 1/4 is made for this. Thoughts?

[lowell holmes]

Lie Nielsen planes are quality planes. IMO, you can't go wrong with them.

[Frederick Skelly]

I haven't used the LN 10 1/4. Seems like a lot of money though. Here's an additional idea you might consider: LV Skew Rabbet (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=59999&cat=1,230,41182,48945). I've been happy with mine.

Hope it helps.
Fred

Edit: If you're not a purist, you could also use a table saw to get ride of SOME of the waste.

[Jim Koepke]

Edit: If you're not a purist, you could also use a table saw to get ride of SOME of the waste.

My guess would be Mark doesn't have access to a table saw. A piece of scrap that big would be worth saving.

My question on this is how much use would you have for a large rabbet plane after this job?

My #10-1/2 (#4 size rabbet plane) doesn't get used a lot, but my luck was good the day it crossed my path (err wallet) at $25. Besides, it comes in handy at times.

jtk

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Lowell & Fred. I have always wanted the LV skew. It is the same weight as the Record 778 but the iron is 1/8 inch versus 3/32 in the Record. And usually LV is a solid tool. I am getting a used Ulmia Rabbet plane soon. I will give that a try - it has a chip breaker. The LN 10 1/4 looks solid with a nice heft - 5 lbs, chip breaker and around 2 inches of blade. I have to admit with bullwork hogging off wood for cove molding a table saw buy might be next.

[Mark Rainey]

My guess would be Mark doesn't have access to a table saw. A piece of scrap that big would be worth saving.

My question on this is how much use would you have for a large rabbet plane after this job?

My #10-1/2 (#4 size rabbet plane) doesn't get used a lot, but my luck was good the day it crossed my path (err wallet) at $25. Besides, it comes in handy at times.

jtkTrue Jim, I do not have a table saw and I usually my Record 778 takes care of my rabbets

[Warren Mickley]

We usually use a plough to excavate waste on this scale. You can come in from two sides with narrow grooves. I think a plough is more versatile for other work also.

I would stay away from figured wood for mouldings.

[Mark Rainey]

We usually use a plough to excavate waste on this scale. You can come in from two sides with narrow grooves. I think a plough is more versatile for other work also.

I would stay away from figured wood for mouldings.I agree it is best to have straight grain for moldings. Unfortunately when picking out 8/4 cherry at the mill it is hard to see grain patterns fully. And cherry is known for unpredictable grain changes - we will see how it proceeds. Warren, your plow plane approach is intriguing. I am going to try that. Thanks!

[Warren Mickley]

We also often make large coves on the face of a board rather than the corner. In these cases we plow a number of grooves down the face of a board then use a wide round plane to refine the moulding.
381793

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Warren!

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been working with a Veritas Skew Rabbet plane to make 8 raised pannels. My recent post on blow out on end grain corners gets into the issues I had tryng to do a large job with the Skew Rabbet. If I had it to do again I would go with the Veritas Jack Rabbet. Derek Cohen has a great article on the Jack Rabbet on his site/Blog. He concludes that it may be the most versatile plane of all instead of just a tool for making the occasional rabbet or raising pannels. I am a major Veritas plane fan but, there are a number of considerations in regard to the degree of difficulty in setting the Skew Rabbet up and keeping it “tuned”, that in my experience were more challenge than I might have liked. IMHO (in my humble opinion) the Skew Rabbet is not a great tool for large jobs.

The Jack Rabbet, can be used from either side. It has two pre cut wheels. The pre cut wheels appear to be much easier to adjust on the Jack Rabbet. It has all/simpler adjustment features, like the rest of the BU plane line. And it is already a Jack, the most versatile plane type. I would love to have that 6 lbs of plane for heavy work. I have been using my Veritas Custom Jack and it has almost no chatter issues vs the Skew Rabbet.

The Skew Rabbet lacks: a side to side blade adjustment, adjustable mouth, the in & out adjustment is difficult to use, the pre cut wheel is very difficult to set, the blade is very hard to get in & out and hard to adjust, often causing chatter........It might be a great plane for small jobs but, if the job is large requiring: multiple blade sharpenings, fence adjustment, blade adjustment, pre cut wheel adjustment it becomes a PITA, YMMV. I love my little Skew Block plane too but, the fence does not like to stay put....

[Mark Rainey]

Mike, thanks for the advice. I was thinking the same thing. My Record 778 is just too small for hogging off the amount of wood I have to remove & and the skew rabbet is a similar size and mass. I just got a nice Ulmia Rabbet plane from Dave Parkis in the mail yesterday, tuned it up, and it works very nice but still it is too small for the task at hand. I have 3 of these cove moldings to do & I do not want to spend hours. The Veritas jack looks impressive - my only concern is the bevel up iron with no chip breaker. Will the Lie Nielsen 10 1/4 be better for long grain cherry with patches of irregular grain?

[Mark Rainey]

Warren, I liked your idea of coming in from two sides with narrow grooves so I pulled out my Ulmia wood plow plane and began to cut a groove with my 1/8 inch iron. Unfortunately my narrow blade started to bind in the groove as it got deeper. I was surprised by this. Is this frequent when trying to cut deep, narrow grooves? Maybe I will have better luck with a wider iron. Any thoughts on a saw such as a stair makers hand saw or one of those Japanese saws that can start in the middle of a board?

[Dave Parkis]

Mark, have you considered a moving fillister for this task? I don't know how wide you need to rabbet,but a moving fillister should be able to do a rabbet quite a bit wider than the Ulmia rabbet plane you for from me. Just a thought.

[Mark Rainey]

Mark, have you considered a moving fillister for this task? I don't know how wide you need to rabbet,but a moving fillister should be able to do a rabbet quite a bit wider than the Ulmia rabbet plane you for from me. Just a thought.A possibility but usually the irons are a bit over an inch. The Veritas jack rabbet & LN 10 1/4 are around 2 inches.

[James Pallas]

Mark I have an LV Jack rabbet and it will cut the rabbet you are doing. In order to prevent tear out you can adjust the cutting angle of the blade. That being said and with the tools I have I would start with sawing off the line and cleaning up with planes. I would start by using an azebiki saw with a guide. I have a Stanley 45 also so could use that. When cutting that deep you need to make sure that the iron retains the original bevel on the sides and the skates are in line with that bevel or it will get hard to push the deeper you go. If the plane you are trying to use cannot be set up that way it will jamb up.
Jim

[Mark Rainey]

James, can you recommend a specific Japanese azebiki saw? For the guide should I just use a square wood piece?

[James Pallas]

Mark My saw is just one of the Gyokucho (I think that's the correct spelling) brand sold by several suppliers. Brian or Stanley could probably lead you to a better quality saw. I just use a wood guide. Other saws could be used. I found this saw to cut very quickly.
Jim

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks James!

[Jim Koepke]

I pulled out my Ulmia wood plow plane and began to cut a groove with my 1/8 inch iron. Unfortunately my narrow blade started to bind in the groove as it got deeper.


When cutting that deep you need to make sure that the iron retains the original bevel on the sides and the skates are in line with that bevel or it will get hard to push the deeper you go.

Along with making sure there is a good edge on the side bevel you might try waxing the skate.

One problem with plow planes is as the cut gets deeper if there isn't a bit of clearance any slight misalignment of the plane in the groove can cause the skate and blade to wedge a little. Sometimes with narrow blades it helps, after a bit of depth is achieved, to remove the fence.

jtk

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks for the information Jim!

[Jeff Heath]

My Lie Nielsen low angle jack rabbet plane is perfect for what you are wanting to do. It has quickly become one of my favorite specialty planes. I originally purchased it for cleaning up the grip on molding planes, because it's a full width plane, but it is now my "go-to" plane for an rabbeting. For me, having the handle and tote makes it a more comfortable user, and also keeps my knuckles out of the work, and my skin on my knuckles.:D I have always had a problem with this using my rabbeting block plane.

The plane has knickers on both sides of the plane body, which solves that ​problem quite nicely.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks for your advice Jeff. The plane has good mass and plenty of applications

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, I liked your idea of coming in from two sides with narrow grooves so I pulled out my Ulmia wood plow plane and began to cut a groove with my 1/8 inch iron. Unfortunately my narrow blade started to bind in the groove as it got deeper. I was surprised by this. Is this frequent when trying to cut deep, narrow grooves? Maybe I will have better luck with a wider iron. Any thoughts on a saw such as a stair makers hand saw or one of those Japanese saws that can start in the middle of a board?

Mark, you can start a groove on the other face (try 1/4) and then you can take some of the waste away with a mallet and chisel. Removing some waste will make it easier to plough. I can't imagine wanting to make a 1"x1" rabbet by planing the whole thing with a rabbet plane.

Here are a couple of cove mouldings. Had they been made on the corner of a plank they would have needed more than 1x1 rabbets. Since they were made on the face of the board, they were less than 1/2" deep.
381952

[brian zawatsky]

Mark, I am a bit late to the party maybe (as usual), but if you've not found an optimal solution yet I'd be more than happy to let you use my LN 10 1/4. It cuts like a dream. I'm not too far from you, PM me if you want to use it, we can work something out I'm sure.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks for your generosity Brian. I would sure like to take it for a test drive. I will PM you.

[Mark Rainey]

381956Thanks Warren. I was thinking of trying a 1/4 inch groove - I noticed the skate on my Ulmia plow plane is a little fatter on the inside than my 1/8 blade and it is getting hung up there. I removed the fence & waxed the skate but it didn’t help much. I could file the skate a bit, but trying the 1/4 inch blade seems easier. I have some photos of the “fat”381953381953381954381955 skate on my Ulmia

[Mark Rainey]

Used 1/4 inch on Ulmia plow to come in from one side & used Japanese saw from the other side to remove a large strip of wood. Time to try out a large rabbet plane next. ( Warren, my next molding just might be from the face of the board.382048

[Pat Barry]

Making cove molding by hand. I have to hog off a lot of wood - cherry long grain with some irregular grain. Before I get to the round plane I am running a rabbet over well over one wide & one inch deep. My blue Record 778 is weak for the task. It looks like LN 10 1/4 is made for this. Thoughts?
Just curious how many lineal feet of this molding you are making and how long the longest piece needs to be because I can't picture doing this with a saw unless the pieces were only relatively short. Even then you will want to make long moldings then cut them down to size after the coves and profile are established because that will help ensure uniformity

[Mark Rainey]

Pat, the board is 4 feet, and I need 3 boards for the tall case clock. For sawing, I used a double edged pull saw (ryoba) and began my cut almost horizontal from the far end. Once I sawed to my depth I make a long line on the side of my saw blade with a black marker, indicating depth and angle of saw blade. I then ripped down the entire length using marker line as a guide for depth and angle. Took about 30 minutes.

[steven c newman]

Long time ago, Stanley made a "Core Box Plane" for pattern makers to cut coves and other hollow items...

[Mark Rainey]

Wow, that cove box plane is interesting

[Mark Rainey]

OK, it is cove molding time again! I did the last one with a lot of help from forum members, including Brian who loaned me his beautiful LN carriage rabbet plane - what a powerful plane. Warren, thanks for the advice for cutting away on the face of the board. After 6 months your wisdom finally sank in...I am a slow learner. I have been reading about cove molding on a tablesaw, but as wannabe Neander, I want to do this with handtools. My plan is to cut most of the depth of the cove with a Record 778, Stanley 46, wooden rabbet plane & finish off with a #16 round ( I have a user I picked up from Jim Bode last year ) I will draw cove profile on ends of 6 foot boards & mark edges of cove profile on face of boards. Any advice, particularly how I keep the cove uniform for 6 feet on the face....eyeball it ? Make curved mirror image template?398159398160

[brian zawatsky]

Mark, send me your email address. I have an early Christmas gift for you lol. You can either text me or send it via PM, they'll both get to my phone eventually.

[Mark Rainey]

Mark, send me your email address. I have an early Christmas gift for you lol. You can either text me or send it via PM, they'll both get to my phone eventually.
I love the Holiday spirit!!

[Jim Koepke]

I will draw cove profile on ends of 6 foot boards & mark edges of cove profile on face of boards. Any advice, particularly how I keep the cove uniform for 6 feet on the face....eyeball it ? Make curved mirror image template?

It will surprise you how well your eyes will help you to keep your cove true. Starting with the rabbets will also help.

To the best of my memory Roy Underhill uses a template when he makes a rule joint. A rule joint can be made with a pair of hollows & rounds. Here is the episode.

https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-shop-table-joints-rule/

Be careful, it could inspire you to purchase a few more planes and try a new project or two.

jtk

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Jim!

[Jim Koepke]

You are welcome.

jtk