Sketch up vs autocad

[Livingston Johnston]

Ive finally decided to come out of the stone age and move to computerized drafting and have narrowed my options down to sketch up or autocad but im unsure which way to go. My primary application will be doing 2D elevations of my various windows and doors as well as cross sections and profiles.

Will one be easier than another to learn? Does one give greater cross over moving forwards? If i make a drawing in either program, can it be sent and viewed by a customer or supplier without that software?

Thank you for the help

[Matt Day]

Sketchup. Cheaper too, as in free. You can export jpeg images for others to view.

[johnny means]

I found Sketchup to be much more intuitive and easily produced 3D models with no training at all. AutoCAD, IMO, is more difficult o learn, but better for more traditional 2D drafting. I liken it to the difference between a ball of clay and set of Rapid-o-graphs.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I have been using Sketchup for a couple of years, but for the last month have been trying to switch to Fusion360. So far I am liking F360 more than Sketchup but so far the learning is slow because of watching a video tutorial and then trying to replicate.

[Peter Kelly]

If you're producing millwork (eg: windows and doors) to be integrated within a architectural package, AutoCad would be best.

Drawings are exported as PDFs.

[Mike Goetzke]

If you are looking for 2D check out Delta CAD. It's very easy to use. I use it all the time for my woodworking projects.

Mike

[Tim M Tuttle]

If you're just doing 2D then AutoCAD all the way. You could get by with AutoCAD LT. If you want to make the jump to 3D, move to Fusion 360.

[Steve Peterson]

Saving the files as DXF or DWG should allow them to be imported by any CAD program that the customer uses. They seem to be universally supported.

If you just want visibility, then PDF is a great option, as Peter suggested.

[Mark Bolton]

I think a lot of it depends on whether your looking for a paid option or a free or free-ish option. Full blown Autocad with regards to cost is no comparison to SU. Way more expensive. As already pointed out you can export from the paid version of SU in a format nearly anyone else can use. We do it all the time. If your looking for a combination of high quality 2D ability with sections and all, SU Pro would be the way I would go. Fusion 360 is great but if your in business, and an honest individual, its not free. And no different than what Google/Trimble did with SU, they are offering fusion at a low annual cost and without a doubt when they get enough hooks set the cost will rise exponentially.

I use Fusion for some personal stuff and to play around to be familiar with it but its far too complex for the vast majority of work we do in the shop. Sketchup's environment (to me) is tailored very well to a cabinet shop/architectural millwork environment. The plug-in's available specifically to the wood world are extremely handy.

[Greg R Bradley]

All Autodesk products are now subscription, with the cheapest being Fusion 360 at $300/year. AutoCAD LT is just slightly over that. We pay $2,100/year per seat for AutoCAD Civil 3D.

Sketchup is NOT free for any commercial use but is very inexpensive compared to most others. Think you would pay $500 outright for Sketchup Pro, which lets you work in 3D and print/export 2d drawings.

[Wayne Jolly]

Fusion 360 is free for students, enthusiasts, and entrepreneurs making less than $100,000/yr with it.

Just to throw a wrench into the machine, if you are a Canadian or US military veteran, you can get SolidWorks for $20/yr.

Wayne

[Mike Heidrick]

Fusion 360 includes a 2.5d CAM as well.

[Rick Alexander]

I'm not familiar with Fusion 360 so I can't comment to that but I am familiar with Delta CAD and very familiar with Sketch Up. SU just is soo much faster than Delta CAD and I suspect Auto CAD as well. Can't tell you how many times I use previous drawings or portions of previous drawings to draw a new project and just alter the dimensions or something. I'm so use to SU now I can import / draw / alter a project right in front of the customer and get instant decisions right then. Especially important with built ins or kitchens and definitely a selling point for the customer to see a very good 3D image of the project before I ever make the first cut. Best birthday present ever from my wife was a 3 day class at my local Woodcraft to learn it really well from Bob Lang (thanks again Bob).

I believe he still has a bunch of learning materials for the beginner that are top shelf and there is a million videos out there to lean how to use SU. You do have to use it to make it sink in however.

[Peter Kelly]

Just to throw a wrench into the machine, if you are a Canadian or US military veteran, you can get SolidWorks for $20/yr.Fly, meet sledgehammer.

Meant to mention earlier that AutoCad LT would probably be sufficient for millwork.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Mac Users should look at MacDraft. Even I can use it.

[Mark Bolton]

I'm not familiar with Fusion 360 so I can't comment to that but I am familiar with Delta CAD and very familiar with Sketch Up. SU just is soo much faster than Delta CAD and I suspect Auto CAD as well. Can't tell you how many times I use previous drawings or portions of previous drawings to draw a new project and just alter the dimensions or something. I'm so use to SU now I can import / draw / alter a project right in front of the customer and get instant decisions right then. Especially important with built ins or kitchens and definitely a selling point for the customer to see a very good 3D image of the project before I ever make the first cut. Best birthday present ever from my wife was a 3 day class at my local Woodcraft to learn it really well from Bob Lang (thanks again Bob).

I believe he still has a bunch of learning materials for the beginner that are top shelf and there is a million videos out there to lean how to use SU. You do have to use it to make it sink in however.

This is our experience as well. When we were doing residential work it was nothing to sit down and completely work up portions of a large project right there with the customer. A massive massive sales tool for us. Now in the commercial work we do the same thing. After our shops are in, we can meet on-site with the crew and show them in 3D what the work entails. They love seeing it in 3D and being able to ask for a different view or perspective, a certain section view that wasnt in the shops. We can show them in real time and simply export a pdf or jpeg and shoot it right to their on-site Ipad or computer.

I really despise the subscription based format that everyone has gone to now because just like with SU they simply keep creeping the price up every year (including the maintenance) and soon we will be paying the same numbers that a seat for Autocad use to be. But it is what it is. At this point I would be hard pressed to be without it. We run all our casework through a paid plug-in Cabinetsense that handles the entire CNC side as well so a single job will pay for the lot.

[Randy Viellenave]

One other option if you're only doing 2D is Draftsight. You will find it is very similar to AutoCad LT . They have a free version you can use to learn.

[Bob Lang]

Best birthday present ever from my wife was a 3 day class at my local Woodcraft to learn it really well from Bob Lang (thanks again Bob).

I believe he still has a bunch of learning materials for the beginner that are top shelf and there is a million videos out there to lean how to use SU. You do have to use it to make it sink in however.

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the kind words. I've been teaching SketchUp for 10 years now and I'm still at it. I came to SketchUp after years of experience creating drawings by hand at a board, and then with AutoCAD. For me SketchUp wins hands down. The Pro version (which you need if you're making money or want to export vector files) is a bargain compared to AutoCAD LT or the full version of AutoCAD. When you get some practice in, the design process is much like heading out to the shop and putting hunks of wood together. You can create alternate versions quickly and examine them from any angle. As others mentioned it is a fantastic sales tool, but it is also a powerful engineering, problem solving and project management tool. If you think ahead about how you create and name your parts, you have an accurate and complete list when you're done. In SketchUp you focus on building a good model and when you're done you can extract everything you might want to know about the model and it's parts.

It does take some effort to learn. That effort will be lessened considerably if you have someone who knows what they're doing show you how.

Bob Lang

[Livingston Johnston]

Thanks for all the replies! Does sketch up offer the ability to draw in 2D? 3d would be great to show customers but if i need to send a profile to my tooling manufacturer, it nedds to be simple 2D

[Livingston Johnston]

Draftsight also sounds interesting. Does anyone have experience with it? It is easy to learn? Limitations vs sketchup or autocad lt?

[Jenny Trice]

Onshape is an excellent option. It is free. It is more like traditional CAD systems, in particular Solidworks. There is a lot of training material online as well. It is cloud based, meaning you never have to worry about version updates. It is far more capable than the relatively simple package that most woodworkers would require. The only limitation is that if you use the free version, you are putting your files into a public arena. For most woodworkers, this probably isn't an issue. I am an engineer by training and have had some CAD training although I am far from an expert or an every day user. I have tried to use Sketchup and found it very not intuitive and not easy to change features or parameters without starting over. And, I wasn't able to make dimensioned drawings. I'm not sure how long Onshape has been around and am surprised it is not brought up in conversations like this.

Good luck.

[Mark Bolton]

2d is displayed in sketchup by simply orienting the camera to the desired view and setting the camera to parallel projection.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the kind words. I've been teaching SketchUp for 10 years now and I'm still at it. I came to SketchUp after years of experience creating drawings by hand at a board, and then with AutoCAD. For me SketchUp wins hands down. The Pro version (which you need if you're making money or want to export vector files) is a bargain compared to AutoCAD LT or the full version of AutoCAD. When you get some practice in, the design process is much like heading out to the shop and putting hunks of wood together. You can create alternate versions quickly and examine them from any angle. As others mentioned it is a fantastic sales tool, but it is also a powerful engineering, problem solving and project management tool. If you think ahead about how you create and name your parts, you have an accurate and complete list when you're done. In SketchUp you focus on building a good model and when you're done you can extract everything you might want to know about the model and it's parts.

It does take some effort to learn. That effort will be lessened considerably if you have someone who knows what they're doing show you how.

Bob Lang

I dont think you can compare SketchUp and Autocad LT. They are two very different programs for two very different jobs. OP said he wants to do 2D and I just can't imagine doing 2D as quickly in SketchUp as I do Autocad. If 3D was in consideration then SketchUp would win hands down vs Autocad but I would recommend Fusion over SketchUp. SketchUp aggravates the hell out of me.

[Philipp Jaindl]

If you can afford it definetly AutoCAD. In my opinion it has a better UI, more options and its Industry Standard, at least here.

[Bob Reda]

I would stay away from subscription based software. Art cam users paid out over $12000 and a yearly maintenance fee just to have the company go belly up and they are all out thousands of dollars. Use a software where you actually own it.
Bob

[Bob Lang]

I dont think you can compare SketchUp and Autocad LT. They are two very different programs for two very different jobs. OP said he wants to do 2D and I just can't imagine doing 2D as quickly in SketchUp as I do Autocad. If 3D was in consideration then SketchUp would win hands down vs Autocad but I would recommend Fusion over SketchUp. SketchUp aggravates the hell out of me.

My comparison is based on the time it takes to create a typical woodworking project; figuring out what to build and presenting the information in the form of standard (and not so standard) printed drawings. It is more of a difference in mindset than any particular software, and I have a great deal of experience with both SketchUp and AutoCAD. When 3D modeling, I focus on solving the problems of what the thing will look like and how the parts fit together. When I'm done I can quickly extract any 2D or 3D view that I want. Because the prints are different views of a single model, there isn't any way for different views to disagree or to draw something that can't be built. Working in 2D, either on the board or in a CAD program the focus is on making the drawing, even in the initial problem solving phase. I started out in SketchUp trying to create 2D drawings and wasted a lot of time. I was learning how SketchUp doesn't work. I too found SketchUp aggravating, but my aggravation was the result of me trying to work with an AutoCAD attitude. Eventually I learned how SketchUp really works and the drawings I make take less time, are more accurate and valuable in the shop, and I have far more options in what I present to a client or the guy doing the building. Now when I need to go back to AutoCAD, I find it aggravating and slow.

Bob Lang

[Livingston Johnston]

Just a quick update. Ive decided to try fusion 360. I might pick a shaper origin cnc router in the next year or so and it can run using fusion 360 designs. Im a complete novice with computer drawings so im going to try and go through the tutorials. Ill update this thread to let members know how it is going as a beginner

[Bryan Lisowski]

Just a quick update. Ive decided to try fusion 360. I might pick a shaper origin cnc router in the next year or so and it can run using fusion 360 designs. Im a complete novice with computer drawings so im going to try and go through the tutorials. Ill update this thread to let members know how it is going as a beginner
There is a guy on YouTube named Lars Christiansen, he has a really good 3 part getting started tutorial, plus many others.

[Ben Rivel]

Just a quick update. Ive decided to try fusion 360. I might pick a shaper origin cnc router in the next year or so and it can run using fusion 360 designs. Im a complete novice with computer drawings so im going to try and go through the tutorials. Ill update this thread to let members know how it is going as a beginner
Smart choice learning Fusion 360. It will open a lot more doors down the road than SketchUp.

[Rick Alexander]

There is a guy on YouTube named Lars Christiansen, he has a really good 3 part getting started tutorial, plus many others.

I need to look him up as well. I'd love to see what the differences are and also love a competitor since Sketch Up is starting to get more aware of its profit possibilities. I don't mine paying for the software (I do have the paid version) but always helps keep costs down to have a good competitor.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I need to look him up as well. I'd love to see what the differences are and also love a competitor since Sketch Up is starting to get more aware of its profit possibilities. I don't mine paying for the software (I do have the paid version) but always helps keep costs down to have a good competitor.

Lars has some good tutorials though most of them are not focused on woodworking. Definitely applicable though. He also responds to emails pretty quickly. Jay Bates has an hour long walkthrough of a table he modeled in Fusion 360 that is pretty good. The Wood Knight has done some videos on Fusion as well.

[Dennis Peacock]

I use Delta CAD for 2D and I use Sketchup for 3D work. Love them both.

[Tony Leonard]

I am just a step ahead of you, although I have a long background with CAD. I just stated with Fusion a couple of months ago. Takes a while to get the hang of it. The AutoDesk tutorials will get you started for sure. The 2D drawings that it spits out for you are very nice. I am using it for 3D printing and such. I have not tried using the CAM part yet. I still use VCarve for that. Fusion is really an amazing piece of software. As a long time CAD user, I fins myself trying to figure out how to do things that it is already setup to do FOR you! Good luck with it. Be patient. Pay close attention to the fundamentals - that will make it much easier later. Don't be like me and try and dive right in to a project. Between Sketchup, IntelliCAD, old AutoCAD, Vcarve, etc. - I get pretty mixed up at times!



Tony

[Brian W Evans]

I will second the Lars Christensen recommendation for Fusion 360 videos and I also just now found a series of videos by DN Handcrafted that are pretty new and aimed at woodworking. I really enjoyed the first part of his four-part pencil box series. Here's the link: https://youtu.be/5JZKSDSyP6g

[Dave Richards]

Thanks for the link Brian. I started watching it. 4 minutes in and he's already worked harder than I would in SketchUp to create the same thing. I'll keep watching. Maybe it gets easier later.

[Mark Bolton]

Thanks for the link Brian. I started watching it. 4 minutes in and he's already worked harder than I would in SketchUp to create the same thing. I'll keep watching. Maybe it gets easier later.

Thats the same experience I have had with Fusion. Its really good when you take it to the CAM level but the CAD side is too slow for me for my day to day flow in the shop compared to Sketchup.

[david blakelock]

Just a note on subscription vs perpetual license. Most software companies are moving to a subscription model. For a number of reasons, the main one is that it is easier to get started as the up front costs are lower. Plus if they are public, Wall Street prefers that model. I am in the software business and all we do is subscription models. Also the free Autocad licenses for small businesses or students are term limited. I believe it was free for a year.

[Mark Bolton]

Just a note on subscription vs perpetual license. Most software companies are moving to a subscription model. For a number of reasons, the main one is that it is easier to get started as the up front costs are lower. Plus if they are public, Wall Street prefers that model. I am in the software business and all we do is subscription models. Also the free Autocad licenses for small businesses or students are term limited. I believe it was free for a year.

The bottom line with all subscription based is that it #1/allows them to hook the user. Get them use to the software to a point where they are committed enough to resist change (or see it as more cost effective to stay put as opposed to migrating)

#2 It creates perpetual, predictable, revenue. Who wouldbt love the thought of a captive customer base as opposed to a percentage of customers that will live with outdated software til they are in diar need of the new version.

It's a case where yet again the marketing arm has done a masterful job of forcing the consumer into lining the pockets of the corporate elite.

Would be great if i could doop my customers into paying 3x over a lifetime for periodic updates to their kitchen as opposed to what the average homeowner spends on kitchens over their lifetime.

Lifetime software costs have blown through the roof based on subscription based pricing. People are getting rich and the consumer is getting screwed.

[Dave Richards]

Where's the Like button?

It's a similar thing to what is going on in the medical business. The hospital gets "free" equipment as long as they buy the consumables. The bean counters like that but the end result is the cost of the equipment is paid several times over. Buying the equipment would be a capital expense but buying consumables is not.

[david blakelock]

The bottom line with all subscription based is that it #1/allows them to hook the user. Get them use to the software to a point where they are committed enough to resist change (or see it as more cost effective to stay put as opposed to migrating)

#2 It creates perpetual, predictable, revenue. Who wouldbt love the thought of a captive customer base as opposed to a percentage of customers that will live with outdated software til they are in diar need of the new version.

It's a case where yet again the marketing arm has done a masterful job of forcing the consumer into lining the pockets of the corporate elite.

Would be great if i could doop my customers into paying 3x over a lifetime for periodic updates to their kitchen as opposed to what the average homeowner spends on kitchens over their lifetime.

Lifetime software costs have blown through the roof based on subscription based pricing. People are getting rich and the consumer is getting screwed.

Not to get this topic way off subject, but the statement about software cost going through the roof based on subscription pricing is simply not true. If anything the pricing has gone down if you look at the lifetime costs of S/W. With perpetual pricing, you pay a lot up front and then annual support. With subscription it is all built in. It is not a case of marketing forcing customers lining the pockets of corporate elite. Making software costs money. Even "open source" is not free if you want it supported. Criticizing a S/W company for making money is no different than someone telling a woodworker that they can buy the same thing at a department store for a fraction of the price.

Sorry I got this thread off topic. To get it back on topic, any of the packages mentioned do a good job. The best way to evaluate S/W is to take advantage of the free trial and see which one matches best with how you think and work. Some folks find SU easy others find it hard. It is really a function of how you think and work. All of them are basically the same. There are only so many ways to build a 3-D CAD package.

Again, sorry if I got this thread off topic. Back to my beer.

[Roger Marty]

Fusion 360 and OpenSCAD are my go-to software for 3d modeling. Though I'll even use tinkercad.com to get a quick visual sense of proportions.

[Brian W Evans]

I will second the Lars Christensen recommendation for Fusion 360 videos and I also just now found a series of videos by DN Handcrafted that are pretty new and aimed at woodworking. I really enjoyed the first part of his four-part pencil box series. Here's the link: https://youtu.be/5JZKSDSyP6g

Since some have said that making the pencil box drawing looked like more work in Fusion 360, I went looking for a similar project in Sketchup. I found something very similar and I agree - it does look a bit easier in SU. I have no idea if either of these guys is doing things the most efficient way.

Here's the SU version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tEcGo6SyNA

One thing to note: the Fusion version makes components and creates variables, which is something I would want to do. I know SU can do this, too, but it's not shown and that makes things look a bit quicker for SU in this video.

[Mark Bolton]

Criticizing a S/W company for making money is no different than someone telling a woodworker that they can buy the same thing at a department store for a fraction of the price.

I wasnt criticizing anyone for making money. As I said, I commend them for doing a masterful job. My numbers however dont add up to your conclusion. Its completely understood that software costs money to make and especially with applications like cabinet design programs where the market is pretty limited so the cost will be spread over few consumers.

I have several friends who are in the SW biz and we/they have spoken for years about the drive for this model. Usually these conversations include a "just wait and see what it will be like".. or some giggling and snickering. Of course they feel they are finally being compensated but they also admit that its a very very keenly crafted marketing plan. Most developers are moving to forced subscription in that your output from an older version will simply no longer operate within a newer version or if it will it requires extra steps to remember to save a file being sent to this customer that uses xxx2105 and this other customer uses xxx2017, and youve go the handful of luddites who are on eve older versions still, and so on.

Just a short time ago someone would buy a PC and run Windows office for 6, 7, 8, 10 years. Now its getting more difficult. So the office that either came bundled, or was purchased outright online or at a box store for a couple hundred bucks, is now 70 a year if you "need" to be current. So the 10 year cost for the customer is 700 as opposed to a couple hundred. I for instance cant opt out of the subscription for office because I have other software and banking/accounting software that conflicts with older versions. So now when I look at my accounting software, banking, CAD, CAM, Plug-in's for Cabinetry, maintenance on my CAD, etc.. my annual expense for software is well over a thousand dollars (closing in on 2K).

As I said, its a great place to be, knowing you have a somewhat fixed monthly revenue stream coming through the door. It would just be nice if the subscription price somewhat followed the cost curve of upgrading. In the 10 years I will pay for a 70/yr subscription, I would be able to buy a fresh copy (or the upgrade for less) every few years if it werent for the fact that every time the new version comes out they install a bunch of trip-wires for those on older versions.

[Dave Richards]

Made up a box on the fly so it's a little slow. Mitered corners, sliding lid with finger pull. Rabbeted bottom in grooves. https://youtu.be/q36JnRJLM1w

[Julie Moriarty]

I prefer AutoCAD because it's so much more robust. I've done lots of 3D in AutoCAD without any difficulties. But there are different versions. I have the MEP 2008 version, designed for mechanical, electrical and plumbing contractors. But I've used it for many woodworking projects and prefer it over SketchUp, hands down.

[Mark Bolton]

I prefer AutoCAD because it's so much more robust. I've done lots of 3D in AutoCAD without any difficulties. But there are different versions. I have the MEP 2008 version, designed for mechanical, electrical and plumbing contractors. But I've used it for many woodworking projects and prefer it over SketchUp, hands down.

The killer is for someone coming in out of the gate or at a hobby level Autocad is $185/mo or almost $1500 a year which is why Fusion is so popular. As has been stated many times in these discussions the vast majority of individuals who are running Autocad either have a copy for their work (subscription paid by someone else), a pirated copy, or a very old version that still works for them (which is the best option).

So much of it depends on your needs.