Need a feeder, thinking DC40

[Patrick Kane]

Looking to buy a feeder for my Felder KF700(finally). I think i might end up getting the tilting bracket for the felder too, but that is another point. First up, i dont have much shaper experience, which is why im buying the feeder. This model by comatic seems to be favorably reviewed, and i was surprised that the pricing of feeders across the board is pretty tight. The DC40 is about $1250 versus the grizzly 4-wheel for $1225. The grizzly doesnt have variable speed or some of the other features of the DC40, which makes the comatic appear to be a steal. My questions are should i look at another model, where do i buy this thing, and do i really need the smart stand? I want the fourth wheel for my shaper and variable speed seems nice, so im kinda set on his, but please feel free to tell me im wrong and should consider model X. Next, looks like shop gear is the only place to buy comatic, is that right? Finally, the smart stand is almost the same price as the feeder. I read there are some cool features included, but thats really more than i need. I am most concerned about positioning the feeder to 90° easily, and i can probably spend more time on the height/angle adjustments using the regular stand. What does the smart stand do that i really need it? I read it has a memory lock to quickly move it out of the way and back into position again, but that seems like a steep price to pay for $950. What stand do they use in the youtube promotional videos? I dont want to think im buying one thing for $1250, and end up with something completely different, because they were actually using the $2200 version in the videos. Thanks ahead of time, looking forward to using the shaper after having it for a few months.

[marty fretheim]

Hi Patrick. Just went through the same debate your having. Posted my questions on the "Felder Owners Group" and had almost the exact questions you have. The consensus was that the smart stand was too much for the tilt-away bracket. Too heavy. I went with the DC40 because it's only $100 more. Make sure you get the tilt bracket with the gas shock. Your back will thank you.

The smart stand has more reach and better adjustment features but IMO not worth the extra cash. Plus I'm pretty sure the FOG guys were right about it being too heavy for the bracket. I was thinking the longer reach would be good to place the feeder over the saw blade if I ever wanted to use it for ripping. Not sure I ever would, but you know how that goes.

Shopgear is where I bought mine. Great to deal with. If/when you order tell them you may want 4 of the 1" wheels also. He sold them to me for 1/2 price ($10 each).

I just got it installed, so no feedback on whether the feeder is better or worse than other feeders, but it looks to be a very popular choice with the professionals. If you are running single phase power it can be easily wired for 120 or 240, or they have a 3 phase option. Same money.

I think your on the right track.


Marty

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[John Kee]

Get the DC30 and use the saved money for a proper set of wheels that you are going to have to buy anyways. Stock wheels from most sources suck big time. That was also recommended on the FOG thread. Axiom or Western Roller. Shopgear (great service) is where I got my DC30 for the shaper, I moved my Felder F38 onto my AD951 J/P.

[Patrick Kane]

Nice, I’m going to do it. Are the stock wheels really unusable? What’s the deal, they don’t grip?

Marty, how much is the gas bracket? I also would like to use the feeder on the saw if possible. With it installed, does it reach from the tilting bracket?

i specifically wanted the four wheels, because it seemed effective to have a wheel on either side of the cutter.

[Darcy Warner]

I like the blue ones from western roller. Yes most of the yellow or white tires suck soon after a bit of use.

[John Kee]

"i specifically wanted the four wheels, because it seemed effective to have a wheel on either side of the cutter."

Personal, daily experience over the last 8 years dictates otherwise but in the end it's your money, buy what you want. The extra weight can be problematic and the 4 crappy wheels will still need changing in a short period of time and this eliminates the mediocre performance. The typical dealer response is the wheels are glazed and need sanding with 180 grit.

[Mel Fulks]

The blue Western Roller are grabier than the yellow WR and some jobs might need them. But the yellow WR are much better than the worthless original equipment tan tires. And they last a lot longer than the blue. WR says the yellow is the biggest seller.

[Darcy Warner]

I run 3 wheel feeders on all my stuff, even 9hp shapers with no ill results. Not really sure another wheel would make that much difference.

[peter gagliardi]

I have run only 4 wheel feeders for the last 20+ years, but just got a 3 wheel feeder on a used Martin shaper.
My opinion has been , for the last 20+ years that a 4 wheel unit is better, and feeds better.
My opinion has RESOUNDINGLY been confirmed!
Get the four wheel.
2 wheels either side of the cutter allows you to feed more parts faster and easier, especially small or light parts with virtually no "tip in". Or "tip out".
There will be a very clean Pertici 8 speed 3 wheel feeder on the market soon that only has 58 actual hours on the clock.

[John Kee]

What wheels are on the 3 and 4 wheel feeders Peter. The other major issue with 4 wheelers is most don't do vertical. The DC40 is one of the exceptions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Patrick, yes you'll want the tilt bracket for your KF, with the gas strut.

I have a 3 wheel feeder which is used for my saw, shaper, and sometimes the jointer.................Regards, Rod.

[Joe Calhoon]

I am in the 4 wheel camp also. I had one 3 wheel A few years back and did not care for it at all. I have used Western Roller a couple times and not too excited about their wheels. I always thought the stock wheels on the Univer feeders were better and went back to those. I have had a DC 40 on my T26 for a couple years now and the stock (split) wheels on it seem fine.
All that said I just bought a Festo 3 wheel for my vintage T23. I am hoping it tilts as easy as the DC 40. I might be regretting not going with another DC40.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have run only 4 wheel feeders for the last 20+ years, but just got a 3 wheel feeder on a used Martin shaper.
My opinion has been , for the last 20+ years that a 4 wheel unit is better, and feeds better.
My opinion has RESOUNDINGLY been confirmed!
Get the four wheel.
2 wheels either side of the cutter allows you to feed more parts faster and easier, especially small or light parts with virtually no "tip in". Or "tip out".
There will be a very clean Pertici 8 speed 3 wheel feeder on the market soon that only has 58 actual hours on the clock.

Peter,
You going with a Wegoma to replace the Pertici? I like those better than the DC40 but they are sure pricy anymore.

[Patrick Kane]

Thanks for the help, just purchased it with the standard stand and four of the skinny wheels. It is nice that they offer it with the option of running off 110v. I always thought it was stupid to have a 220v line for a 1/2hp-1hp motor. I dont have anymore space in my shop panel for another 220v breaker.

Ill try out the stock wheels and see how they do. If they really suck, then ill look into the western roller wheels. I dont get how you can make a crap rubber wheel, but i suppose anything is possible. Rod, does the standard stand allow you to use the feeder on the saw from the tilting bracket? You have a hammer saw/shaper, right? I imagine the dimensions are similar to my old Felder 700 saw/shaper

This might be my ignorance on the subject, but why would less wheels ever be better than more wheels?

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for the help, just purchased it with the standard stand and four of the skinny wheels. It is nice that they offer it with the option of running off 110v. I always thought it was stupid to have a 220v line for a 1/2hp-1hp motor. I dont have anymore space in my shop panel for another 220v breaker.

Ill try out the stock wheels and see how they do. If they really suck, then ill look into the western roller wheels. I dont get how you can make a crap rubber wheel, but i suppose anything is possible. Rod, does the standard stand allow you to use the feeder on the saw from the tilting bracket? You have a hammer saw/shaper, right? I imagine the dimensions are similar to my old Felder 700 saw/shaper

This might be my ignorance on the subject, but why would less wheels ever be better than more wheels?

Hi, Yes you can use the feeder on the saw with the flip up stand. Be aware of the reach of the feeder as the saw is farther from the rear than the shaper.

I don't know that I ever said less wheels are better, however 3 work fine and the feeder is lighter and smaller, which can be a consideration in some cases.......Regards, Rod.

[marty fretheim]

Hey Patrick, the tilt bracket was right at $400 shipped from Felder. The part # was 430-117. Double check with them though cause they sell different ones for different machines. You definitely want the gas shock. I was sceptical but it is a one handed operation to tilt up and down. Just be sure all the clamps are locked down before tilting. The clamp and gravity hold it in the base.

381247

This is fully extended. The horizontal arm is 28" long. 6-8 more would help.

381251

Dont know why but when I loaded the second picture the first one went sideways. Sorry about the sore neck.

Take some pics and tell us what you think when you get it going. Enjoy!

Marty

[J.R. Rutter]

Good call on the 4-wheeler. Makes it much easier to run reversed cutters when you can just pivot the feeder without any other adjustments. I think that the skinny split wheel pairs on the DC40 work better than the typical wider oem feed wheel. They seem to have more give, which increases surface area for grip.

[peter gagliardi]

I have a powermatic 4 wheeler I bought new in '97. The original wheels worked ok for the life of them- a mustard yellow rubber I would guess. I then bought a Steff 4 wheel around 2000. Stock wheels were marginal on that. Bought western roller polyurethane I think to replace both. Yellow worked best, the blue are too soft for my liking. Bought the Wegoma about 8 years ago I think- split wheel urethane I am pretty sure- works pretty well, though the vari-feed belt sometimes slips.
The second Martin came with the stock 3 wheel Pertici. Stock wheels were terrible, though they may have hardened up.
Took them off, and am running a mix of blue and yellow western rollers wheels- that's what was left in the drawer of the shaper cabinet.
They work, but what I really dislike about them is the fact that the aluminum hub sits proud of the poly tire by about 1/8-3/16".
Unfortunately, I didn't see it in time, and I now have a nice "crescent" wore through the Aigner fence anodizing.
Still ripped a bit over that one.
Joe, I do not think there is any way I will swing for another Wegoma.
I just do not see that it is 2 and a 1/2 times the feeder that the Comatic is??
I could be wrong though.

[Patrick Kane]

Marty, that is a huge bummer. It doesnt look like the feeder reaches the saw from your photo. I would need to start the cut for 4-5" and then have the feeder finish it from there. I guess that works, but not ideal. Is there a way to extend that support post?

Sheesh, $400 for a dumb bracket? Did it also take 3-4 months for it to arrive? My 1.25" spindle from them took months.

[Rod Sheridan]

Patrick, there is a longer arm available for the larger feeders.

Check with your feeder supplier.............Rod.

[marty fretheim]

Patrick, I ordered the feeder and the bracket on the same day. The feeder was on the porch two days later, the bracket took a week. I ordered the the bracket on Felders eshop and lucked out that it was in stock. If they don't have any in the US it could very well take a couple months. You might want to call to order. It is a lot of money, but IMO the only real option.

As far as the reach of the horizontal arm, it's possible that a longer one could be retrofitted. I bet a call to the rep at Shopgear would answer that. I don't know that I would ever use it over the saw blade. Anybody want to comment on that?
I'm thinking that I'd probably never use the feeder to rip anyway.

Marty

[James Biddle]

We just put a tilting bracket on our shaper feeder and had to buy the extended arm to reach far enough. 41" long ($288). We don't have a gas strut on our tilting bracket, only a spring that doesn't do much.

Marty, do you know if the gas strut can be added later to a non-Felder bracket? I mean, is it just bolted to something at both ends?

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe, I do not think there is any way I will swing for another Wegoma.
I just do not see that it is 2 and a 1/2 times the feeder that the Comatic is??
I could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]

Peter,
i don’t think it is worth it. In the end I bought the Comatic for the T26. It functions as well as the Wegoma and the digital speed change is good once you get used to it. My only gripe is having to push 2 buttons to start it. Getting used to that now.

[David Kumm]

Isn't Wegoma just a Comatic rebadged with a secondary fit and finish step? Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

I believe it is Dave but never been able to get a straight answer about that. The DC40 and the Wegoma are 2 different animals though. The Wegoma is heavier metal construction and has a Reeves type drive. The Comatic with the DC motor is the coolest running feeder I have used.

I think feeder tires harden up from low usage. The Univer feeder that came with my old T23 shaper were hard as a rock. A while back I was going to put the spare outfeed wheels on my T90 as the originals are wore out. The 15 year old spares ar hard, glazed and slipping badly. I am debating whether to order new ones that might be the same or have these recovered.

[peter gagliardi]

Joe, so you are saying the DC40 doesn't activate by the main feeder switch on the Martin? You have to turn the feeder itself on as well each time?
If so, I don't think I can calculate the labor savings payback time for pushing 1 button vs 2 , to make up the cost differential between the two.
I think Wegoma, and Martin get a pretty nice chunk of change for the badging and marketing. But.....

At one point, Powermatic offered what I am pretty sure was the exact model as the Wegoma, except for the Wegoma cover plate, and the blue paint-
pretty sure I foolishly paid too much just to have those. My fault, lesson learned.

[Rod Sheridan]

Marty, I've used the feeder on the saw a few times.

It's great when you have lots of ripping, absolutely consistent rips..........Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

The reeves drive feeders are copies of the old Elu, still one of the great feeders. Comatic also sold a version to Steff called the Primomatic. Dave

[marty fretheim]

James, I don't know about adding the shock to a non-Felder bracket, but the guys on the Felder group have discussed it. They've posted all the info and parts to add it to a Felder non-shock bracket.

Rod, would you mind measuring the length of the horizontal arm on your machine. Now you got me rethinking about ripping with it. If you have a pic of how you use it to rip, I'd be interested to see that. The center of the shaper and saw arbor is 17" apart on my machine. I think a 36" arm would do the trick for me.

Marty

[marty fretheim]

Marty, that is a huge bummer. It doesnt look like the feeder reaches the saw from your photo. I would need to start the cut for 4-5" and then have the feeder finish it from there. I guess that works, but not ideal. Is there a way to extend that support post?

Sheesh, $400 for a dumb bracket? Did it also take 3-4 months for it to arrive? My 1.25" spindle from them took months.

Patrick, I just called Shopgear and they're selling me the 41" arm from the smart stand. $158 plus $26 shipping. I told him he might be getting another phone call:). I didn't ask but wonder if it could have been originally ordered that way for a better price. Anybody need a 28" arm?

Marty

[marty fretheim]

If anybody's interested, the Shopgear part # for the 41" arm is 84B.

Marty

[marty fretheim]

381634

Patrick, does that look better?

[Joe Jensen]

Not sure if this post is too late to help the original poster. I have a Felder KF700SP. I recently upgraded from a Maggi Steff 3 wheel on a regular stand to a DC40 on a smart stand. I have the Felder flip bracket and I added a gas strut per the plans on the Felder support site. Works fine and I don't think it's much worse than the 3 wheel standard stand. Also mine came with Poly wheels, the ones that are split so you can span either side of a saw blade. Enquire when ordering. The only issue is you need to carefully align the feeder and stand before lowering. I ended up marking the saw extension table so I know where to align the feeder before lowering.

[Patrick Kane]

I received the tilt bracket from Felder on saturday, but somehow they sent me the bracket and no gas strut. I had a sinking feeling that i goofed on the order(there site succckkkkksss), but the invoice reads the bracket WITH gas assist for $363. Felder is batting 0 for 2 with me so far. For the cost of their stuff, they are pretty dreadful in the parts and accessories department. Hopefully they get back to me today and send the part to me this week. I suppose there is also the alternative that they credit me $100+/- for the missing parts and i dig up the thread on FOG for DIYing the lift assist. I get the feeder tomorrow, so i can always try lifting and putting it down to see how much it sucks without the assist. That much weight swinging on a long arm is a back accident waiting to happen. Im 30 and fit, but want to avoid a bad day where it tweaks my back lowering it off the table.

Marty, that is perfect. Too bad its another $175 to extend the feeder 4-6".... Not sure im too crazy about spending that much for that little. Not for you to answer specifically, but with the feeder in the original position, you could still use it effectively on the saw, right? You would have to start the cut by 4ish" and the feeder would finish it as you grabbed the next piece to feed in? It seems like it would still work and keep your hands away from the blade while maintaining consistent feed pressure.

[Rod Sheridan]

James, I don't know about adding the shock to a non-Felder bracket, but the guys on the Felder group have discussed it. They've posted all the info and parts to add it to a Felder non-shock bracket.

Rod, would you mind measuring the length of the horizontal arm on your machine. Now you got me rethinking about ripping with it. If you have a pic of how you use it to rip, I'd be interested to see that. The center of the shaper and saw arbor is 17" apart on my machine. I think a 36" arm would do the trick for me.

Marty
Hi Marty, the feeder arm on my feeder is approximately 680mm long. The tilt up bracket moves the center of the vertical column approximately 180 back from the end of the table.

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Regards, Rod

[marty fretheim]

I received the tilt bracket from Felder on saturday, but somehow they sent me the bracket and no gas strut. I had a sinking feeling that i goofed on the order(there site succckkkkksss), but the invoice reads the bracket WITH gas assist for $363. Felder is batting 0 for 2 with me so far. For the cost of their stuff, they are pretty dreadful in the parts and accessories department. Hopefully they get back to me today and send the part to me this week. I suppose there is also the alternative that they credit me $100+/- for the missing parts and i dig up the thread on FOG for DIYing the lift assist. I get the feeder tomorrow, so i can always try lifting and putting it down to see how much it sucks without the assist. That much weight swinging on a long arm is a back accident waiting to happen. Im 30 and fit, but want to avoid a bad day where it tweaks my back lowering it off the table.

Marty, that is perfect. Too bad its another $175 to extend the feeder 4-6".... Not sure im too crazy about spending that much for that little. Not for you to answer specifically, but with the feeder in the original position, you could still use it effectively on the saw, right? You would have to start the cut by 4ish" and the feeder would finish it as you grabbed the next piece to feed in? It seems like it would still work and keep your hands away from the blade while maintaining consistent feed pressure.

Id really try to get the proper one from Felder. I wouldn't want to mess with adding the shock to your bracket. It requires fabbing some parts from a machine shop and sourcing other parts. The Felder one works really well, and took about 30 minutes to install. I'd call Felder and talk to someone. Your right about their website, I don't use it unless I'm pretty sure of the part I need.

I don't know if you could could effectively use it or not. I decided no. I wonder if he would have cut me a deal on the longer arm if I had ordered it that way from the start. After spending so much on Felder stuff, what's another $175 lol.

[marty fretheim]

Hi Marty, the feeder arm on my feeder is approximately 680mm long. The tilt up bracket moves the center of the vertical column approximately 180 back from the end of the table.

382138

Regards, Rod

Thanks Rod, I had to pull out my universal tape measure. 680mm is what mine is, 27". Appreciate the help from "The Great White North", Ey!
Marty

[Chris Perren]

Although this is older thread, I looking for feedback on the comatic DC40 SMART stand and the Felder KF700SP. Is it too heavy even with the gas struct option? Is the SMART stand worth it?

Thanks Chris



Not sure if this post is too late to help the original poster. I have a Felder KF700SP. I recently upgraded from a Maggi Steff 3 wheel on a regular stand to a DC40 on a smart stand. I have the Felder flip bracket and I added a gas strut per the plans on the Felder support site. Works fine and I don't think it's much worse than the 3 wheel standard stand. Also mine came with Poly wheels, the ones that are split so you can span either side of a saw blade. Enquire when ordering. The only issue is you need to carefully align the feeder and stand before lowering. I ended up marking the saw extension table so I know where to align the feeder before lowering.

[Patrick Kane]

Chris,

The feeder isnt a feather with the gas strut, so I imagine it would be a bit of a challenge without it. For the most part, the strut really only contributes on the lower half of the swing. If that doesnt make sense, think about it mostly engaging from your shoestrings to about your belly button. After that point, it is kinda all on you to flip it into position. I dont know your personal condition, but my wife would be in for a bit of a challenge to lift it into place. I did expect the gas strut option to take all the effort out of tilting the feeder into place, and it definitely did not.

I dont know if you can use the smart stand on the tilting bracket. The stand alone adds 100lbs, i thought.

The DC40 is a great feeder from my limited experience. I hadnt used a feeder prior to getting this one a year ago, so i appreciate its adjustability and variable speed control.

[Chris Perren]

Thanks Patrick.. An extra 100 lbs would kill the deal for me. I currently own a old comatic 3 wheel feeder that I use on a older powermatic 26 shaper.. It's heavy, does not go vertical, and can be a pain to adjust. I just older a Felder KF 700 with a tilting feeder bracket and the gas struct option for my small shop. I need a better feeder to use with it that's not a pain to adjust although I do not want to kill myself raising and lowering it on the tilting bracket. Any recommendations?

A few reply above, I notice Joe appears to have a Comatic DC40 (Smart Stand) on his KF700... I am curious is this working out or not. Obviously weight is my biggest concern.

Thanks Chris

[Larry Edgerton]

Peter,
You going with a Wegoma to replace the Pertici? I like those better than the DC40 but they are sure pricy anymore.

I know what you mean, I have come close to pulling the trigger on a Wigoma several times, usually after I have to switch from horizontal to vertical and back. But every time I tell myself that it does not do anything my Univer does, except switch planes.

[peter gagliardi]

Larry, save a lot of money, skip the Wegoma, get a DC40. Same ease of plane change, and I think 1/2 the price!!!

[Joe Calhoon]

The Wegoma is a nice feeder but a lot more money. I’ve used both and they function the same. Only bad thing with the DC40 on the T26 shaper you have to push 2 buttons to start it. Wegoma has a totally metal case instead of plastic covers on the DC40. Wegoma has a knob for speed adjustment vs electronic speed adjustment on the DC40. Shop Gear now has the mechanical height readout for the DC40.

if you can find a used Festo they tilt pretty easy. Not quite as functional as The DC40 with the smart stand but not bad. These things are built like a tank and would probably cost 4K if still made. Elu is another good one. I never cared for 3 wheel feeders till I had this one. The wheels are small and spaced close together. Great for running small parts and small panels.

410115

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work on that feeder, Joe. Very neat!

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Brian, I’m a piker on the painting and metal work compared to you and Patrick. My car nut friends would call that a 15 or 20 foot paint job!
I’m happy though.

[Greg Parrish]

I have the DC40 with regular stand on my KF500 and am using the KF700 tilt bracket with gas strut. I agree with others that the strut only kicks in on the down tilt but I honestly don’t find it that hard to pivot it otherwise. My strut from Felder is so strong though that I have trouble getting the weight of the feeder far enough out to hold itself down when not in use. The smart stand weight might help in my case but it’s hard to justify its price for an hobby user like myself.



Thanks Patrick.. An extra 100 lbs would kill the deal for me. I currently own a old comatic 3 wheel feeder that I use on a older powermatic 26 shaper.. It's heavy, does not go vertical, and can be a pain to adjust. I just older a Felder KF 700 with a tilting feeder bracket and the gas struct option for my small shop. I need a better feeder to use with it that's not a pain to adjust although I do not want to kill myself raising and lowering it on the tilting bracket. Any recommendations?

A few reply above, I notice Joe appears to have a Comatic DC40 (Smart Stand) on his KF700... I am curious is this working out or not. Obviously weight is my biggest concern.

Thanks Chris

[Darcy Warner]

The Felder vario feeders are stupid heavy.