combination table saw blade vs switching blades out

[Marc Donnelly]

Hi and thanks for your feedback.

I do alot of ripping long lengths of hardwood and cross cutting too, on my 3hp cabinet saw.
What are the disadvantages of using a combination Blade versus switching blades out between ripping and cross-cutting?

I want to save saw blade switch out time but I do not want to sacrifice quality, or burn up my saw putting to much stress on my huge amounts of ripping using the wrong blade.

[scott spencer]

If you want the absolute best performance possible from your saw, go with high quality task specific blades. Using task specific blades requires owning at least two blades that each excel in a limited operating region, and are typically unacceptable for tasks outside of their intended scope. They also require blade changes for each different task for optimum results. Two task-specific blades (typically a 24T ripper and a 60T or 80T crosscutter) will generally stay sharp longer than a single general purpose blade because they share the work load, but will cost more upfront and will also cost more to re-sharpen when the time comes. Ripping with a good dedicated rip blade will be easier on your motor than a 40T or 50T combo blade, and will cause less burning. If you do a lot of ripping, especially in thicker materials, at the very least pick up a dedicated rip blade.

A general purpose blade will neither rip as efficiently as a true rip blade nor crosscut as cleanly as a dedicated crosscut blade, but you may find that it’s acceptable at doing both tasks for many situations. A valid argument in favor of using one high quality general purpose blade is that the GP blade leaves a cleaner edge than the rip blade, crosscuts faster than a crosscut blade, and does so with the convenience and cost of using one blade. Most higher quality general purpose blades will leave a glue ready edge, which is often as good as it needs to be.

It takes less than a minute to switch a saw blade....I switch blades for critical cuts where I want the finest cut, or when I'm doing a lot of consecutive rip cuts.

[Frank Drackman]

Look at the results of your cuts using your current setup. If you are happy with the cuts, don't bother switching the blade. If not happy, switch the blade.

[Rod Sheridan]

As Scott said, if you need the best performance and cut, use blades optimized for those tasks.

I find that 4 blades fit most applications

- 24 tooth rip

- 80 tooth crosscut

- combination blade

- 80 tooth triple chip

The combination blade doesn't rip thick material well, it's OK for thinner material.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

While task specific blades can offer the best performance, today's high-quality combination blades are very good for both ripping and crosscutting, particularly with the typical 1/2" - 1" material thicknesses that many woodworkers use. I use a Forrest WW-II most of the time, but have a 20t ripping version for when it's appropriate.

[Matthew Hills]

I use the 30-tooth WWII thin-kerf with my Jet JPS-10. I think this is a near-ideal general-purpose blade for this saw. I prefer the lower tooth count and thin kerf to help with ripping on a saw that doesn't have a lot of excess hp. Crosscut performance is pretty decent, especially when new and with a zero-clearance insert, although I think my track saw crosscut is still a bit cleaner.

I haven't seen a lot of improvement with either a full-kerf rip blade or a couple of the Freud crosscut blades that I've tried, but I'm always interested to read about the benefits others report in these types of threads.

Matt

[Simon MacGowen]

While task specific blades can offer the best performance, today's high-quality combination blades are very good for both ripping and crosscutting, particularly with the typical 1/2" - 1" material thicknesses that many woodworkers use. I use a Forrest WW-II most of the time, but have a 20t ripping version for when it's appropriate.

+1

I have gone down both paths (mostly hardwood, plywood stuff only occasionally), and decided that the difference in the outcome of switching blade is negligible. I use a combo blade and save a lot of time: no more taking off the guard or removing the riving knife, cranking up the blade, replacing the blade, etc. I also have to double check the gap between the blade and the sawstop brake, just to be sure.

It is my standard routine to remove machine marks after stock is prepared. Switching blades offers me no benefits. Better spend time on what really matters.

Simon

[John TenEyck]

I think Scott covered it about as well as possible. For me, I'm willing to take the minute or so required to change from a dedicated rip to a dedicated crosscut blade for the improved performance and cut quality they offer. I also have two table saws. One is set up primarily for ripping the other only for crosscutting with a sled. I still have to change the blade on the one used primarily for ripping to a dado set up occasionally.

John

[Jason Lester]

I use a Ridge Carbide TS2000 99% of the time for everything. The only real time I switch it out is if I need to rip a bunch of hardwood that is over 1" thick. I put on a dedicated rip blade in that case.

[Richard Dooling]

Agreed. I generally use a Forrest WW-II or Freud combination blade and I will occasionally switch out to a crosscut blade.
But there is a huge difference using a true rip blade in ease of feed and quality of cut. So I use that when I'm doing more than a couple of cuts.


While task specific blades can offer the best performance, today's high-quality combination blades are very good for both ripping and crosscutting, particularly with the typical 1/2" - 1" material thicknesses that many woodworkers use. I use a Forrest WW-II most of the time, but have a 20t ripping version for when it's appropriate.

[scott spencer]

I use the 30-tooth WWII thin-kerf with my Jet JPS-10. I think this is a near-ideal general-purpose blade for this saw. I prefer the lower tooth count and thin kerf to help with ripping on a saw that doesn't have a lot of excess hp. Crosscut performance is pretty decent, especially when new and with a zero-clearance insert, although I think my track saw crosscut is still a bit cleaner.

I haven't seen a lot of improvement with either a full-kerf rip blade or a couple of the Freud crosscut blades that I've tried, but I'm always interested to read about the benefits others report in these types of threads.

Matt


Obviously there are a lot of variables, but I also think the 30T WWII hits a niche that no other single blade covers. It's not perfect, but as a one blade solution I think it covers a broader range than a 40T or 50T blade.

[Simon MacGowen]

Obviously there are a lot of variables, but I also think the 30T WWII hits a niche that no other single blade covers. It's not perfect, but as a one blade solution I think it covers a broader range than a 40T or 50T blade.

That is interesting. Is 30T WWII available in 1/8" kerf?

My riving knife is set to the right towards the fence side and I don't want to reset the riving knife when I use different blades; mine is a 40T WWII.

Simon

[Jim Becker]

Simon, all of the Forrest blades I've owned have been dead on 1/8" kerf...it's one of the things that actually keeps me from trying other brands because so many of them are slightly different width of kerf. I don't want to have to deal with that since the Forrest is dead on lined up with both my riving knife and my scoring blade which is exactly 1/8" kerf. I'm using the 12" WW-II 48T most of the time now, but also have a couple of 10" 40T and the aforementioned 20T ripping monster.

[andy bessette]

My own solution was 2 Unisaws, one with a rip blade, the other with a combination blade. Plus a contractors saw with a 1/2" dado.

[Simon MacGowen]

My own solution was 2 Unisaws, one with a rip blade, the other with a combination blade. Plus a contractors saw with a 1/2" dado.

Having more than one TS is certainly ideal, but I don't have the space. The 30T WWII is on my wish list now. I wish I had space for a cabinet saw dedicated for dado blades. I love finger joints for shop drawers.

I have seen a shop image showing one woodworker having THREE mitresaws on his station: one for mitre cuts on the left, one for cuts on the right and one for square cuts! Lucky him.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

Simon, all of the Forrest blades I've owned have been dead on 1/8" kerf...it's one of the things that actually keeps me from trying other brands because so many of them are slightly different width of kerf. I don't want to have to deal with that since the Forrest is dead on lined up with both my riving knife and my scoring blade which is exactly 1/8" kerf. I'm using the 12" WW-II 48T most of the time now, but also have a couple of 10" 40T and the aforementioned 20T ripping monster.

Thanks. A quick search found it...It is cheaper than a 40T, but it says it is for stock over 2" thick. In your experience, is it as good for 1" stock (50% of the lumber I use fall into this spec.) as a 40T WWII is?

Simon

[scott spencer]

That is interesting. Is 30T WWII available in 1/8" kerf?

My riving knife is set to the right towards the fence side and I don't want to reset the riving knife when I use different blades; mine is a 40T WWII.

Simon

Yes....available in both 3/32" TK and 1/8" full kerf.

[Jim Becker]

Simon, I have been buying my Forrest blades from SilversMill these days as their pricing is a lot more attractive than "direct". And yes, you can use the blade for thinner stock, just understanding that the aggressive cutting action designed to power through thicker material isn't going to leave as smooth of a surface as you will get with more teeth on the 1" stock..

[Ron Citerone]

One advantage of a straightup rip is the flat tooth makes a square bottom kerf which is nice for cutting splines in boxes and such. Not a reason alone to have one, but an added perk.

I did woodworking on the cheap most of my life and there is nothing wrong with going that way. Now that I am older, I still watch to dollar, but like to splurge on some quality stuff now that I can afford it. Prioritize!

[Nick Decker]

One advantage of a straightup rip is the flat tooth makes a square bottom kerf which is nice for cutting splines in boxes and such. Not a reason alone to have one, but an added perk.

I did woodworking on the cheap most of my life and there is nothing wrong with going that way. Now that I am older, I still watch to dollar, but like to splurge on some quality stuff now that I can afford it. Prioritize!

Don't want to die with too much money in the bank. Somebody might spend it foolishly!

[Randy Heinemann]

The April, 2018 issue of Fine Woodworking has a review of 40-tooth full kerf combination blades. It might be worth reading. The bottom line results were that the Freud Premier Fusion produced the best cross and rip cuts, but made ripping 8/4 hard maple slow. The next choice would be the Forrest WWII or Ridge Carbide TS2000, but these did not produce cuts that were as "perfect" as the Freud blade. I have a couple of Freud blades and always found their Fusion blades to be great for the majority of cross and rip cuts. Freud blades are generally reasonably priced also. However, no matter which blade I've used, if I'm ripping 8/4 hardwood, a good quality rip blade makes the job much easier and probably a little safer. I usually clean my rip cuts up on the jointer anyway.

[Mike Wilkins]

Just get another saw and use a cross cut on one machine and a rip on another.
I currently have a sliding table saw and a conventional cabinet saw. Kind of overkill for a small shop, but what can I say; I'm a tool junkie. I switch out between a rip blade and a combination on the cabinet saw, and keep a cross cut on the slider.
Change over on the cabinet saw is just a 2 minute drill. I believe your best cut quality will come from using a blade for it's intended purpose.
Kind of a pain switching around, but it forces you to think ahead to your cutting operations.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks. A quick search found it...It is cheaper than a 40T, but it says it is for stock over 2" thick. In your experience, is it as good for 1" stock (50% of the lumber I use fall into this spec.) as a 40T WWII is?

Simon

Simon, do you use your ripped material without any further processing such as jointing or planning?

I don't so I use a 24T rip blade, material after that is jointed or planed.

Regards, Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

I find that a cross cut or general purpose or combination blade does a passable job on rip cuts < 1.5". On thicker material, these blades just don't work that well.

A rip blade, however (30/24t) cuts thick stock all day long, effortlessly, and does a passable (for me) job on cross cuts, so my saw is permanently chucked with a ripping blade.

I am running a 3hp saw.

[Simon MacGowen]

Simon, do you use your ripped material without any further processing such as jointing or planning?

I don't so I use a 24T rip blade, material after that is jointed or planed.

Regards, Rod.

Almost without exceptions, I edge joint boards (mostly 3/4" and 1" hardwood) on the tablesaw with a WWII 40t and go direct to clamping. Any machine marks on outside edges are handplaned off. Dominoes are also often used for large pieces.

Simon

[William Chain]

I've been running a Freud Premier Fusion for cross cuts and rips up to 8/4 (might get a dedicated rip blade if I keep up the 8/4 work), and a WWII flat tooth grind for cross cuts and flat bottomed grooves and such. These two in a pair seem to cover a lot my needs.

[Marc Donnelly]

Just got home from work, wow what a great response. Thanks for all the info.

I feel the time spent changing blades will be worth it. I rip alot and cross cut just the same. So having to change blades will be and standard practice till I can get two cabinet saws. Lol.

[David Kumm]

I have several saws and lots of industrial blades but I have to admit the WW2 stays on the big saw most of the time. Not because I think it to be the best brand, but because the scoring blades are matched to them. I spent a couple of hours ripping 4" oak with a 40T WW2 ( 16" and 9/64 ) and it worked well enough that I didn't bother with the rip blade. I rip faster with more teeth and have 9 hp so that helps but I also use the blade for panels with scoring and don't see enough difference with my panel blades to change either. Dave

[Brad Cambell]

Buy another saw.

[Joe Spear]

That is interesting. Is 30T WWII available in 1/8" kerf?

Yes, it is. I've had one for several years, and it rips well and crosscuts almost as well as the 40-tooth.

[Rod Sheridan]

Simon, thanks for the info on your work methods.

I almost never rip anything aside from rough lumber so it all goes through the jointer and planer after ripping...........Regards, Rod.

[Roger Marty]

I rip 8/4 Maple with a 50t combo blade on my 1.75hp SawStop PCS.